bluebird418

So I am going through, reading the sticky threads, specifically about knowing if your A is ready to be sober or not and I had a big AHA moment. That he was never once actually sober in our entire relationship. If I told him he needed to stop drinking, he might for a couple months but he always picked up smoking weed or something. He was never able to live a life without a mind altering substance. Here I am sitting here thinking, well he had a few patches of sobriety, but no he really didn't. I cannot think of one day where he wasn't either drinking or smoking weed. Because I wanted him to be sober so badly I just convinced myself he only had one addiction; drinking. It has been over 2 years since we were together, and I cannot believe I am just now realizing this.

This lead me to my next thought. What is sobriety? My xAH wears an alcohol monitor and has supposedly been sober for a year. I haven't spoken to him since last march, know none of his friends, but he hasn't been drug tested in a year either and is still refusing real treatment. So is he really sober? What does that year mean?

What is sobriety?

Liveitwell

What does that year mean to YOU?!? What does it matter what he's doing? How are you!!!

dandylion

bluebird.....to me....I think of someone who is not consuming alcohol (in other words--a blood alcohol level of zero)....as being, technically, "sober"......

The other word is "recovery"...or, more specifically....being "IN recovery"---because recovery is a life long process for the alcoholic.....

First step---changing the thinking...the alcoholic thinking. I have heard some call it a disease of thinking.....Because---thinking controls feelings---feelings control attitude----attitude controls actions----and, actions is what we know people by....our actions show who we are....
I think when our actions (behaviors) match or reflect who we truly are...inside, where our soul resides....we are in peace and serenity.....we are "real".....

At least, this is how dandylion thinks about recovery...lol....

when a person is in recovery..or making strides, at least....we can sense it... we can "feel the shift".....
We can sense that they are more humble, more tolerant, less judgmental, more personally responsible, more emotionally available, etc., etc.,

Also, they don't fight their treatment or their recovery---quite the opposite--they embrace it of their own accord---they don't wave it like a flag, or use it like a bargaining chip; don't use it to measure other people,,,they keep it on their side of the street...and, strive to keep their own step clean.....

I have known lots and lots of people who have had monitors on...and have had what I think of as a "forced" or "enforced" sobriety......
If they have made no internal changes during that time....it is almost always a short trip back to the bottle after the monitor comes off........

dandylion

lostangel011

Sobriety in AA and NA is the absense of all mood and mind altering substances. In my sobriety I don't even take any dr. prescribed medications that have addictive properties because I am prone to addiction. This new "prescribed" marijuana seems to give people a legal okay to smoke weed and that to me is questionable. If you are sober and working a program of recovery you know not to have the doctor prescribe you weed there are lots of other alternatives.

Yes we can get into the debate that it has healing properties and I don't argue that it should be legalized BUT if you are an alcoholic or an addict you abstain from ALL mood and mind altering substances, anything with addictive properties and if you MUST take it short term for an emergency be under strict care of a doctor and in contact with support where ever that support is for you.

If he is smoking weed and saying its okay because its from a doctor that is a joke. Especially here in California where even I can go to my Primary care doctor and say my back hurts and I want weed.

That is my two cents. I agree with dandylion that recovery is more than just sobriety. I can be a dry drunk and not work on my recovery so they go hand in hand but it is MORE than just not drinking. The Big Book and the program of AA and NA say abstaining from all addictive substances is the only way to practice sobriety.

Edit to add my wonderful AH was "sober" for 6 months but traded his drinking for gambling so remember addictions come in all forms and real recovery and sobriety is finding the root of the problem and working on yourself not fixing on something that hurts you and others around you. He then reverted back to drinking and never got well only gets worse.

Yoga

Sobriety for the Alcoholic is NOT wearing an alcohol monitor and recovering, changing thoughts and actions, going to meetings,having and using a sponsor and practicing the principles of the program in ALL their affairs.

FireSprite

Yes, well said dandy!

I have started to view sobriety as the absence of numbing as a way of dealing with Real Life.

It's that shift between hiding/numbing & actively engaging in life without the alcohol, drugs, food, gambling, porn, work - whatever excess they had been using as a method of ignoring reality. IMO, many "dry" people aren't sober/recovering even if they haven't touched a drop in years.

jada1981

Bluebird, thank you for this thread! Going through the same issues with my STBXAH. He's quit drinking for a month or so at a time, but continues to smoke weed daily and refuses to get the emotional support he needs to live a happy life. Even when he's not drinking, he still has the emotional capacity of a child (pouting, sulking, etc.) He is often moody and gives me the silent treatment and won't tell me what's wrong (or maybe the problem is he can't pinpoint what is wrong.) So, to me, true sobriety is, as I have heard others say, being comfortable in your own skin and being able to live life on life's terms. He is convinced that once I'm not around to nag him he will all of a sudden be happy...perhaps that's true? I've learned that's not for me to say. But I've often felt that he is just an unhappy person deep down and will remain that way until he chooses to really be "sober."

honeypig

I think this is a great definition. One of the hardest things for me to understand about XAH was why, since he'd been sober and active in AA for a number of years prior to our meeting, he wasn't able to use what he'd learned then and get back there for help when problems arose after we were married. I now believe that he was never, ever actually in recovery and thus didn't truly have any tools or former sobriety to use or refer back to. Reading thru my old journals, recalling things he told me, I believe he said the words, he went thru the motions, but it never went deep enough to reach the real core of him and make the changes that working a program for real will make.

Thank you for starting this thread; as so often happens, what I just posted is something I didn't realize I knew until I started typing.

This has

DesertEyes

I think the words "sobriety" and "recovery" have lost their original meaning. There are people who live their lives "drunk" on something other than life itself. Whether it be drugs, gambling, narcisism, doesn't matter. It's their _behavior_ that matters.

Some folks quit the addiction, but they don't quit anything else. My father was like that. I see them as just being "un-drunk". They are no longer actively involved in _some_ behaviors, but their attitude towards reality has not changed.

Some people fully embrace life, in all it's ever-changing challenges, and other people go to the opposite extreme and hide from life. The way I've heard it best is that it is the difference between being "a part of life" as opposed to being "apart from life".

Mike

lillamy

So if he's your ex, and you have not spoken to him in a year -- why worry about whether he's sober or not?

Don't look in the rear view mirror. You're not going that direction.

bluebird418

I wouldn't normally care but we have a child in common. So his sobriety and attitude matters in terms of if I'm going to allow him to see her

Cyranoak

As others have said, it does't matter. Focus on you and your life-- move on because it is clear, no matter what the definition, he doesn't want to be it.

tomsteve

for me, not drinking yet still smokin dope isnt sobriety.
maybe a wee bit of rationalizing insanity, but not sobriety.

for me, just puttin the plug in the jug yet still acting and thinking the same way isnt sobriety.
maybe a dry drunk, but not sobriety.

for me, sobriety is stopping all mind and/or mood altering substances,working on changing my behavior and thinking, and changing who i am for the better.growin up and facing life on lifes terms. being a responsable, productive member of society.

aasharon90

Sobriety to me means taking the knowledge
of addiction to alcohol or drugs taught to
me 25 yrs ago along with an effective program
of recovery also taught to me that I learned
and applied to my everyday life in all my
affairs.

Sobriety mean to follow directions, suggestions
from those who paved the path of recovery
for me to follow and achieve what they acquired
over the years.

To aquire health, happiness, honesty
and experience all the joys of the Promises
that come with living an effective program
of recovery.

NoelleR

I agree with most of what's been written, with a few exceptions........:


1) NOT true. Sober/sobriety are AA terms; NOT NA terms. This is the definition for clean in NA, but AA has a 'singleness of purpose' which means it deals with Alcohol (Alcoholics; Alcoholism); AA defines sober/sobriety as 'freedom from alcohol (thru its 12 steps).' There's NO mention of any other drugs; they would be an outside issue.

2) This is just rude. Just because I may be a recovered alcoholic/addict doesn't mean I shouldn't get the benefits of certain medication; nor does it mean I need a babysitter. I live in chronic, debilitating pain, and the only things that work for me are narcotics (believe me, I worked with Doctors and PT specialists for over 10 years)

3) Again.........WRONG! It may be in the NA Basic Text (regarding 'clean' NOT sober/sobriety; these terms are not used in the NA Basic Text), but that phrase is NOT in AA's Big Book.

Now, I know there are more AA meetings than NA meetings, but this is what can happen when some strident NA followers want to amend AA principles to be the same as NA; they're not the same, and they're just fine the way they are; separate.

(o:

lostangel011

I appreciate that you disagree with me and yes the NA Basic Text and AA Big Book are different I was simply meshing some together because I suffer from both alcholism and addiction. I have over 15 years sober and work with a sponsor so I take direction very clearly. I lean towards AA because I find the fellowship to be stronger and more loving and more rooted. That being said for ME the absense of all substances is necessary. Even after surgery I stayed away from narcotics (for me) because I did not want any form of substance to numb me and tempt me into addiction. I shouldn't speak for everyone but years in the program have shown me more times than not when these substances (narcotics and weed) are taken for pain there can be issues and it was advised to me that if I must take them take them under the close care of a physician with total disclosure to my past and communicate with my sponsor

I did not mean to offend you and yes I know the books are different but for the most part I agree with the comments here that recovery is something more than just sobriety and I was merely citing my experiences in both programs and how they combined to work for me and those I have known for the past 20 years in these programs. I was not trying to amend any program but I do believe with all my heart someone who is in AA and sober will not use drugs as in the meetings it is still NOT sober

Not to say I am one to talk as now I am married to a mean alcoholic and my addiction in some ways is him but I am the first to say in every instance this marriage and his drinking have messed with my recovery not my sobriety.

NoelleR

You didn’t offend me. I just find it rather sad that someone claiming 15 years sober in AA would make statements like ‘Sobriety in AA…is the absence of all mood and mind altering substances’ and/or ‘if you are an alcoholic or an addict you abstain from ALL mood and mind altering substances’ and/or ‘The Big Book and the program of AA…says abstaining from all addictive substances is the only way to practice sobriety.’ I would hope that person would have more respect for AA than to ascribe his or her beliefs to AA, especially since AA doesn’t say anything like this, unless you can show me where in its literature these statements can be found (I won’t be holding my breath).

“…I do believe with all my heart someone who is in AA and sober will not use drugs as in the meetings it is still NOT sober…”

This almost sounds as if you give more weight to what you hear in meetings than what you see in AA’s literature. The first thing I was taught in AA was that just because it’s said in an AA meeting doesn’t necessarily make it AA; one should always check with AA, and its literature, and if you can’t verify what is said in the meeting, then what was said was not AA, so forget it.

I don’t disagree with you; I merely stated what AA actually says on the matter; your disagreement is with AA; good luck with that.

(o:

lostangel011

Respectfully agree to disagree. I will always go by what I learned in the meetings that have so successfully worked for me and those who I have followed over the years. I take offense that you find it "sad" but then in another way I just can laugh it off. We all are different and apparently I hit a hot button with you so I understand your need to make that comment. It was not my intent. This is my reality and this is what I have learned and observed, have heard and been taught. Your strict adherence to the literature is correct in your argument I do not deny that and I accept that you are offended for my interepreting it to my experiences and the direction that has been given to me by counselors and sponsors and mentors.

The fact that you need to use narcotics for your pain causes you to be offended because you feel I attacked your sobriety and I apologize that was not the case at all. I know there are need for outside medications and issues. I know there is chronic pain out there and I applaud you for being strong enough to perservere through it. You are an example to many. I have a dear dear friend who is struggling coming in an out AA because of her chronic pain and the only way to heal it is medication that each time works breifly and then causes her to relapse in a dark way so its a very tight rope that you can walk more gracefully and with more strength and faith than many. Again my experiences are different than yours but please do not say I am wrong for what I have been shown and taught. Yes it is not strictly by the "letter" of the book but its a program that I have followed for a long time and I take direction and guidance it is not merely my own opinion. I don't listen to those that have failed but those who have succeeded.

You are entitled to your feelings and reasons for why you feel that way. You can continue to point out all the ways I am wrong or you can just like me resepctfully agree to disagree based on our experiences in the same program.

DesertEyes

Ok people, you are going in circles repeating the same things. Kindly step away from the keyboard, go breathe some air, go check out some other threads.

Mike
Moderator, SR

LifeRecovery

Blue-

I just wanted to commend your search. For me I had to figure out what sobriety/recovery was NOT, before I could get handle on what it was.

I don't know about your loved one, but your recovery with these questions is shining through.