Lying , manipulation , blame
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 29
Lying , manipulation , blame
Alrighty where to begin... I did it again...my AAS...said yes to attending a seminar with me..booked and tickets bought in March...committed right up to the day of the seminar...requested the day off from his boss (my other son) who willingly gave it...my AAS didn't show up at the seminar which was really too bad.
He lied to me and lied to his brother saying I wasn't at the seminar ...his brother called his bluff, called me, and I said no I was at the seminar...your brother wasn't...!
I ended up sending a text message to my AAS ...And stated that his attempt at boldface lying was not acceptable... That I was done talking about the issue . That since he had stopped attending AA and started using Ritalin that his commitments have fallen by the wayside.
When he was working the program he was a stand up straight up guy...now it appears the addictions or trade off addictions are back...he's mean, nasty, accusatory and filled with blame and rage...
He responded back to my text with all those verbs above...and ya know what I thought..."yup you're back to square one". My suspicions have been confirmed... He's either drinking snorting or both...they are so darn good at the games of deceit...
My closing comment to him was if he ever gets back into a program or AA I will happily encourage him..but that from here on in I'm disengaging...
Ya know through out his response to my text he never did address the issue of why he lied to me , or his brother about not attending the seminar...he just tried to cast blame, anger and hostility...good golly...
I just know now more than ever that I can never ever trust him again until I see it in actions. His words mean NOTHING.
HE WAS ACTIVE IN AA for 6 weeks maybe two months...met a girl at AA and now apparently they have moved in together . It's hard to say cause he told me he was moving in June 1 and told his brother he was moving in June 5.
I guess my question is this : Do AA sponsors really advise alcoholics
/addicts that is okay to establish relationships with other addicts...that smoking pot, doing Ritalin (he said he obtained it from a doctor) but also said he was using his girlfriends sons Ritalin..is acceptable???
I really just don't get it...ARG...
He lied to me and lied to his brother saying I wasn't at the seminar ...his brother called his bluff, called me, and I said no I was at the seminar...your brother wasn't...!
I ended up sending a text message to my AAS ...And stated that his attempt at boldface lying was not acceptable... That I was done talking about the issue . That since he had stopped attending AA and started using Ritalin that his commitments have fallen by the wayside.
When he was working the program he was a stand up straight up guy...now it appears the addictions or trade off addictions are back...he's mean, nasty, accusatory and filled with blame and rage...
He responded back to my text with all those verbs above...and ya know what I thought..."yup you're back to square one". My suspicions have been confirmed... He's either drinking snorting or both...they are so darn good at the games of deceit...
My closing comment to him was if he ever gets back into a program or AA I will happily encourage him..but that from here on in I'm disengaging...
Ya know through out his response to my text he never did address the issue of why he lied to me , or his brother about not attending the seminar...he just tried to cast blame, anger and hostility...good golly...
I just know now more than ever that I can never ever trust him again until I see it in actions. His words mean NOTHING.
HE WAS ACTIVE IN AA for 6 weeks maybe two months...met a girl at AA and now apparently they have moved in together . It's hard to say cause he told me he was moving in June 1 and told his brother he was moving in June 5.
I guess my question is this : Do AA sponsors really advise alcoholics
/addicts that is okay to establish relationships with other addicts...that smoking pot, doing Ritalin (he said he obtained it from a doctor) but also said he was using his girlfriends sons Ritalin..is acceptable???
I really just don't get it...ARG...
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,792
I am sorry to say that you are dealing with an addict. They will say and do anything they want to continue to do their addiction. The best thing you did was to cut contact. Now you have to follow through. He will reach out and you will be there to save him. Let him drown. Let him feel the pain of what he has done. Some day he will get it, hopefully.
Keep posting and educating yourself about addiction. Its an awful disease for both the addicts and the people who love the addict.
hugs!!!
Keep posting and educating yourself about addiction. Its an awful disease for both the addicts and the people who love the addict.
hugs!!!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,872
OP--seriously, don't listen to a word he says. My ex told me the head doctor at his first rehab told him he wasn't an alcoholic-so duh, I was the crazy idiot calling him an alcoholic. Came out in mediation that it wasbt the head dr-it was another patient at rehab that told him he wasn't an alcoholic. Don't even know if that is true or if he made up some other delusion to support his drinking. It truly is sick. Mine was the same-when sober was nice, respectful abd you could tell the minute the drinking started again bc he was disgusting, nasty, crude, mean and blaming me for everything. Oh well-his life. His to clean up. You keep on your side of the street and move on with YOUR life.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 29
He said his sponsor told him to say goodbye to me as I bring drama and manipulation ! Lol. He also stated that his sponsor told him that he doesn't need to explain himself to me...
Which is true..he is an adult "man" !
Honest to goodness the response I got from him when I simply stated that I was disengaging for the entire situation was EXTREME.
He never did address the lying to his brother or me about the seminar issue...just kept trying to cover his butt...with accusations about my behaviour...such as I live in the past..when in actual fact we had talked about how past trauma affects an adult . Geesh to remember past is good if it brings u distancing to present.
AND to top it off it was an excellent seminar on addictions, ADHD, stress management , trauma etc...with the speaker being Dr. Gabor Mate' AND he stood right at our table .
So am I correct in my assumptions that SPONSORS teach/support and guide their sponsoriees in the steps etc... That a sponsor would be supportive of their pupil attending such seminar?
Which is true..he is an adult "man" !
Honest to goodness the response I got from him when I simply stated that I was disengaging for the entire situation was EXTREME.
He never did address the lying to his brother or me about the seminar issue...just kept trying to cover his butt...with accusations about my behaviour...such as I live in the past..when in actual fact we had talked about how past trauma affects an adult . Geesh to remember past is good if it brings u distancing to present.
AND to top it off it was an excellent seminar on addictions, ADHD, stress management , trauma etc...with the speaker being Dr. Gabor Mate' AND he stood right at our table .
So am I correct in my assumptions that SPONSORS teach/support and guide their sponsoriees in the steps etc... That a sponsor would be supportive of their pupil attending such seminar?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 29
Gee the head doctor you say...that's like someone else who said their husband was on the waiting list for AA.
I have a gut feeling that his current sponsor is his girlfriend ...just guessing tho.
I have a gut feeling that his current sponsor is his girlfriend ...just guessing tho.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Sponsors don't have "pupils" and they generally don't steer their sponsees to (or away from) seminars. They share their AA recovery, for the most part and stay away from micromanaging.
And I'd suggest stepping away from what he is doing/not doing in AA or with his girlfriend. He's a grownup--let him work his own recovery (or not).
And I'd suggest stepping away from what he is doing/not doing in AA or with his girlfriend. He's a grownup--let him work his own recovery (or not).
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 29
Thank you Lexicat for your response... Yes you are correct in all you say....and I am doing just that...stepping away...I stated to him that I am disengaging.
As for me calling sponsees , "pupils" I don't know the correct terminology...I'm learning as I go.
I guess my main issue was a sponsor who denigrates, name calls and uses put downs of the alcoholics family members. Do they do that?
As for me calling sponsees , "pupils" I don't know the correct terminology...I'm learning as I go.
I guess my main issue was a sponsor who denigrates, name calls and uses put downs of the alcoholics family members. Do they do that?
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: Alabama
Posts: 493
No they don't typically do that. I imagine your son is saying what he thinks and feels and trying to justify his behavior and thinks if he attaches someone else to that thinking it will have more weight and make you think more people besides just him feel that way. It is a bully manipulative tactic. And in my opinion complete lies! You are correct, he never addressed the issue at hand, he was deflecting and blaming. Also known as quacking! I would disengage and let him work his own recovery or not. I would let him know you love him and want him to be healthy and that you will always be his mom, but right now you are going to do that from a distance.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 29
Thank you very kindly "searching for peace" ... It's hard being a codependent mom... I realize I need to work on myself and doing the best I can...but sometimes this stuff gets too overwhelming.
Thank you for your support and encouragement.
Thank you for your support and encouragement.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Dear Kalliola.....as a mother of an adult alcoholic son....I can sympathize with your position. It is a tough one. After all, we can't divorce our children, can we?
The best we can do is to love from a distance---because that decreases the pain that we feel from being up close......but, we know that it doesn't eliminate it entirely.
We mothers have to work soo hard to be strong within ourselves. We need every bit of our SPIRITUAL STRENGTH to do what we have to do..
I say...a thousand times "yes" to your detaching from him, right now. Nothing you can do to help.....and, it is your ONLY protection for yourself.
You cannot believe one word that comes out of his mouth, right now. He is under the control of the disease....he can't even trust himself....
The "alcoholic voice" in his head is talking to him...and he is listening to it...
I will suggest that you google and read the articles written by Floyd P. Garrett, M.D. Those helped me more than anything else that I had read to keep me from personalizing my son's actions when he was drinking. (we mothers DO take it personally).
Especially, read the following 2: "Addiction, Lies, and Relationships" and "Excuses Alcoholics Make". There are many others, also.
Please let me know, by posting or by PM (private message) if you can't find them....I will help you.
They can be found on bma-wellness.com.....under the section of Psychiatry and Wellness.
Just be patient and trust in yourself that you are doing the right thing by stepping back out of this....
dandylion
The best we can do is to love from a distance---because that decreases the pain that we feel from being up close......but, we know that it doesn't eliminate it entirely.
We mothers have to work soo hard to be strong within ourselves. We need every bit of our SPIRITUAL STRENGTH to do what we have to do..
I say...a thousand times "yes" to your detaching from him, right now. Nothing you can do to help.....and, it is your ONLY protection for yourself.
You cannot believe one word that comes out of his mouth, right now. He is under the control of the disease....he can't even trust himself....
The "alcoholic voice" in his head is talking to him...and he is listening to it...
I will suggest that you google and read the articles written by Floyd P. Garrett, M.D. Those helped me more than anything else that I had read to keep me from personalizing my son's actions when he was drinking. (we mothers DO take it personally).
Especially, read the following 2: "Addiction, Lies, and Relationships" and "Excuses Alcoholics Make". There are many others, also.
Please let me know, by posting or by PM (private message) if you can't find them....I will help you.
They can be found on bma-wellness.com.....under the section of Psychiatry and Wellness.
Just be patient and trust in yourself that you are doing the right thing by stepping back out of this....
dandylion
Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 106
He never did address the lying to his brother or me about the seminar issue...just kept trying to cover his butt...with accusations about my behaviour...such as I live in the past..
Kallioya
I cant even count how many times I've been told by my AAH that I choose to live in the past or that I just keep bringing up the past or one of my favorites YOU just don't want to be happy do you?!!!! I try so hard to make you happy !!! and nothing I do is right ! you just want to start arguments don't YOU!! (His response after I got upset because HE LEFT me at a doctors appt. I came out of building to get into the car and he was gone!?!)
Kallioya
I cant even count how many times I've been told by my AAH that I choose to live in the past or that I just keep bringing up the past or one of my favorites YOU just don't want to be happy do you?!!!! I try so hard to make you happy !!! and nothing I do is right ! you just want to start arguments don't YOU!! (His response after I got upset because HE LEFT me at a doctors appt. I came out of building to get into the car and he was gone!?!)
Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: New York
Posts: 165
Maybe AA isn't his cup of tea? There's SMART Recovery, Celebrate Recovery, Rational Recovery etc. many people in my groups are there because they didn't care for step work or AA structure. There's more than one way to skin a cat.
All sponsors are not equal. There's no classes, certifications or association to give oversight. When I went to my daughters anniversary, they encouraged anyone with 12 months sobriety to become a sponsor. Many of these 1year wonders may be very disturbed, angry and very much still masters of manipulation themselves and just white knuckling to the next relapse.
Obviously he found a girl sick enough to shack up. Think there are no sick guys? Many relationships have been destroyed because the struggling addict takes bad advice coming from people only a little less sick than themselves.
Even if his sponsor is healthy, who knows what your son is telling them? You could be the devil in high heels to them.
Either way, he'll stop when he's ready. You can only step away and pray that when he hits bottom the fall won't be that fat down. It's his choice.
All sponsors are not equal. There's no classes, certifications or association to give oversight. When I went to my daughters anniversary, they encouraged anyone with 12 months sobriety to become a sponsor. Many of these 1year wonders may be very disturbed, angry and very much still masters of manipulation themselves and just white knuckling to the next relapse.
Obviously he found a girl sick enough to shack up. Think there are no sick guys? Many relationships have been destroyed because the struggling addict takes bad advice coming from people only a little less sick than themselves.
Even if his sponsor is healthy, who knows what your son is telling them? You could be the devil in high heels to them.
Either way, he'll stop when he's ready. You can only step away and pray that when he hits bottom the fall won't be that fat down. It's his choice.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,254
Glad he was called out on the lying because most addicts/alkies given an inch will take 10 miles. A problem here too. Sometimes it's like disciplining a dog, you have to call them out on the spot so they know what they did wrong and other times just bring up the subject and they know they've been caught. Don't make it a game of gotcha but definitely let them know they've been caught lying or doing something they shouldn't have.
Sometimes I hear the addict/alkie here talk and it too frequently sounds like they are being coached by someone, this sprinkled in between the occasional rehab/sobriety verbage.
Also keep in mind the alkie/addict will try to surround themselves with yes men & women so to speak hanging with people who advocate or participate in the same behaviors.
GOOD LUCK!
Sometimes I hear the addict/alkie here talk and it too frequently sounds like they are being coached by someone, this sprinkled in between the occasional rehab/sobriety verbage.
Also keep in mind the alkie/addict will try to surround themselves with yes men & women so to speak hanging with people who advocate or participate in the same behaviors.
GOOD LUCK!
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