DD113

I'm not sure if I have a question, but I've grown confused in this situation. I have a family member with a very serious problem that spans many years. She has some recent serious medical issues that have created yet another obstacle in such a way that a few months ago a local hospital and the county stepped in and began commitment procedures as it was originally said to be too unsafe to continue drinking with the medical situation.

After court, the commitment was stayed with the plan of inpatient treatment and whatever was recommended. Inpatient treatment went fine and after a little over a month she was released and supposed to have outpatient treatment twice a week along with random screenings. She attended two meetings and then a few weeks ago she began drinking again and missed two meetings. The county social worker that was assigned to her found out about the missed meetings and was told it was due to health and lack of transportation. The social worker arranged transport for the next meeting. We assumed she'd get caught since she was drinking and completely drunk at the next meeting. They wanted to test her but she dodged it somehow and managed to slip through.

She missed the next meeting after that as well and failed to answer calls by the social worker who was trying to check on her. The social worker arrived where she was staying with a local sheriff. I was told afterwards that she refused to be breathalyzed and so the social worker originally wanted her taken to the hospital or detox. She admitted to being drunk and showed them empty bottles but didn't take the breathalyzer. I'm told that the social worker then called the county attorney and that the attorney said not to do anything at the time and so she was left on her own again.

The following day a family member bumped into her drunk and trying to purchase alcohol and called the police. An ambulance eventually took her to the same hospital that initially started the commitment proceedings. This time the hospital kept her overnight and then just discharged her the next morning.

All this time we've been expecting something to happen since she has the stay of commitment. She was officially booted from her outpatient program for missing all the meetings and they noted essentially that they were unable to meet the needs that she requires. There's multiple levels of proof of drinking and yet there's been no movement from the county. Today she missed an important meeting with a surgeon and received a call from them stating to call back when she felt like it. I'm lost as to why the county is sitting on their hands now that they know she's drinking again and failed to meet the terms of the original agreement. Months ago when all of this started they had 24/7 supervision on her and now that it's worse than it was originally, and the medical situation is much more pronounced, they just do nothing?

She wont volunteer to go in and all I can see is that it will continue to get worse. She does make comments about how good it would be if they did put her back in inpatient. It just doesn't seem like that's going anywhere.

Duckygirl1

I have no experience in the stays of commitment. I can only offer my sincere condolences and prayers that she will come to her senses. I can't imagine the pain of watching someone you love in this condition.

What strikes me is the amazing amount of time, human resource, money and energy that is being put into an individual to save her from herself. If there was ever an example of the principle that we can't control another's drinking, this is it. Nothing is going anywhere because the star of this show doesn't want it to. She just doesn't and only she knows why. Being an alcoholic in and of itself is not a crime. She has the right not to go to meetings, she has the right to refuse breathalyzer tests, she is old enough to purchase alcohol, she can check herself out of hospitals.

You all are like the story of Sisyphus in hades rolling a huge stone up a hill only to have it roll down again and again never reaching the top. What can police, social workers or hospitals do if she doesn't want it? You see it getting worse. It's her body. She feels it. Yet she doesn't want to get better. Maybe she just exhausted of it all. It's a slow form of suicide. I pray that someone she encounters can get through to her. ((((Hugs))))

FeelingGreat

Hi DD, if she's in the legal system the county will eventually catch up with her, even if they are taking their own sweet time. I know commitment seems like a magic bullet but even that won't help her if she doesn't want help.
You've done what you can, and I'm guessing other family members have as well. Take a step away from her dramas seeing they're not helping her, and concentrate on your own life.
Most A's need to confront life without a cushion before they finally want to get sober. If you're picking up her messes, stop right away. No money, no collecting her, no feeding her. Leave her to the consequences of her behaviour and she just might decide to seek treatment. Either way, she's an adult and has made her choices.

DD113

No one was expecting a long term solution out of this mess and personally I never agreed with the core concept of the county being able to commit someone against their will. That said, the necessity was the medical issue and the immediacy of it. She requires major surgery. The hospital initiated the entire procedure saying that anything otherwise would be considered suicide. The family weren't making any claims. It's hard to see them say something so dramatic and then abandon their own cause or at least be slow in the process. It was much easier to sit back and leave her to her consequences when the outcome was fuzzy or slow or long term.

LexieCat

I'm sorry you're all in this frustrating position, DD. It sounds like the county attorney is calling the shots. Has anyone called him/her to ask what the obstacle is? I suspect there is some legal issue that is hanging things up. Asking the social worker to explain is pretty useless because the social worker probably doesn't understand what the legal hangup is. I'd contact the county attorney to find out the answer--if you really want to know.

ResignedToWait

This is very confusing to me...because a patient, as long as they have their mental facilities intact, has a right to refuse any and all medical treatment.

Even if they would die within minutes if not treated, a patient has every right to say no to treatment.

Without someone deeming her mentally unfit (which it doesn't seem has happened here), she could refuse any kind of medical treatment they are trying to force her into, including a major surgery.

I'm going to mirror what Duckygirl said...this is ALOT of resources being spent on this person.

My take on the matter?? Someone, somewhere...tried to bluff the alcoholic into thinking they had to power to make all this happen. But, when she didn't get scared into following through and complying with it all, it stalled out and now there really isn't any legal oomph to make it actually happen.

happybeingme

Resigned- in some states that's not true. If the medical profession deemed not having the surgery akin to suicide they can intervene. Suicide is still considered a crime in some states.

My personal opinion she should be allowed to do what she wants. But, Lexie is right the OP should contact the courts or the county prosecutor.

I could see a chronic alcoholic being deemed of unsound mind

LexieCat

The county and the hospital are the ones who initiated commitment proceedings, according to the OP, not a family member. Not enough information to know what it was based on, but it appears there is some question whether the standards for involuntary commitment have been met. I don't know if the commitment was ordered and then stayed, or whether the proceedings were stayed before an order was entered. As I said, the county attorney should know the answer.

Refiner

Well this certainly can't happen in Indiana. The drunk wife of a dear friend (in his 70's') whom he divorced finally is so bad that she can't live alone or take care of herself and calls 911 a bout every other day saying she's dying (no, Judy... You're just DRUNK) to get carried away in her chariot to dry out for a couple of days while begging for benzo's (that's her MO) but no one will commit her or make her a ward of the state. She is unfit as they come. There IS no "help" and she'll most likely end up homeless. She just carries around stacks of blank checks and hands them to total strangers to fill them out and give her what she needs. The CVS store she walks to for her boxes of wine had to call the cops on her last winter as she loitered at the store in her pajamas holding her box of wine asking strangers for a ride home to her apt but couldn't tell them where she lived.

DD113

I wasn't able to attend the actual court proceedings but her public defender failed to initially request any sort stay and focused on having the entire issue dropped. There were multiple mental health evaluations done including one from a third party arranged by the public defender. I was told that the judge had no interest in dropping the matter and actually committed her and ended the session. Everyone left the court room thinking it was done when she bumped into the social worker and everyone went back to speak to the judge and somehow got a stay put in place (small town rules I guess). At that point she was transported by the sheriffs department to inpatient treatment.

If it was a bluff originally I could actually see it failing, but there's a legal stay already floating around with rules and requirements that they wouldn't have to bluff.

I think my biggest issue is if they don't act or continue what they started, then I feel they've actually made the situation worse. Before all of this she was willing to seek help even if help was just a temporary solution and not a long term answer. I know that if that county had never gotten involved she would have continued to drink, but she would have still chosen to have surgery and most likely gotten clean temporarily and dealt with the medical issues. Now with what's happened, she won't seek any sort of help and almost has the attitude of pushing things with the anticipation that the county will eventually just swoop in and end it all. In her case I think she hopes they catch up on some level but continues to run until they do.

I don't know about the resources being spent but I'm guessing they are still small in comparison to neurosurgery and everything from the surgery to the treatment is being handled by the same insurance (I think). I also don't know about what they use to set the standard for mental health. She has high levels of anxiety and PTSD, but sober she's fully functional aside from her addiction but that consistently sees her at levels over .30.

Anyway thank you to everyone for your assistance and words. I appreciate the information and different viewpoints. I actually agree that she should be able to make her own choices, but at this point something in me feels that she is incapable of making a sound decision concerning the surgery unless she is sober.

hopeful4

Unfortunately, in cases like this, no one wants to deal with her. Likely they see it as a complete waste of resources b/c she does not actually want help. I am so very sorry.

Many hugs to you.