Thoughts from children of HFAs
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 16
Thoughts from children of HFAs
Hi, I'm a newcomer looking for thoughts from children of HFA (or anyone who feels they can comment from experience!)
My partner is a HFA. He has been sober but relapsed for about a year now. He is in denial and won't seek help.
We have 2 young children under 5 and whilst he is not physically abusive he is erratic and sleeps a lot. I obviously am able to protect them from most of his behaviour by not relying on him much and covering his grumpiness, but there have been a few incidents that could not be concealed; an incident where he threw a plate because he had cooked and couldn't get us all to sit down and eat. My daughter was not injured but in the firing line and v upset.
Generally however he can be nice and do things with the kids. He is mean to me emotionally, blames me for everything and is manipulative. He refuses to set an alarm to get up for plans we have made with the children but forces me to endure waking him up with several attempts. He is grumpy with the kids when he has had too much to drink and is wanting to sleep eg He will agree to read a story and then tell them off because he previously set another boundary that he hasn't stuck to because he's be too drunk to be consistent.
My question is, I am miserable. And I am wondering about whether these things are going to affect my children more or less than me leaving him? I am worried he's just going to get worse and worse and I would rather get my kids out now before he can cause anymore emotional damage....but....is it better they live with an HFA or no father at all?? What will protect them the most?
Any thoughts from anyone who has lived through a similar situation would be appreciated. I'm a wreck because obv neither situation is what I want for my children
My partner is a HFA. He has been sober but relapsed for about a year now. He is in denial and won't seek help.
We have 2 young children under 5 and whilst he is not physically abusive he is erratic and sleeps a lot. I obviously am able to protect them from most of his behaviour by not relying on him much and covering his grumpiness, but there have been a few incidents that could not be concealed; an incident where he threw a plate because he had cooked and couldn't get us all to sit down and eat. My daughter was not injured but in the firing line and v upset.
Generally however he can be nice and do things with the kids. He is mean to me emotionally, blames me for everything and is manipulative. He refuses to set an alarm to get up for plans we have made with the children but forces me to endure waking him up with several attempts. He is grumpy with the kids when he has had too much to drink and is wanting to sleep eg He will agree to read a story and then tell them off because he previously set another boundary that he hasn't stuck to because he's be too drunk to be consistent.
My question is, I am miserable. And I am wondering about whether these things are going to affect my children more or less than me leaving him? I am worried he's just going to get worse and worse and I would rather get my kids out now before he can cause anymore emotional damage....but....is it better they live with an HFA or no father at all?? What will protect them the most?
Any thoughts from anyone who has lived through a similar situation would be appreciated. I'm a wreck because obv neither situation is what I want for my children
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,913
The children will do better in the long run if they don't live in a home with active addiction. I know the ideal situation would be having two parents living together, but that only applies when the marriage is a happy and stable one. Addiction is not happy nor stable.
I lived my first 8 years with both parents, but my father was an alcoholic. While he wasn't a mean drunk, his drinking did affect me in that he was gone a lot and when he was home, he was sleeping or arguing with my mother.
If your husband is volatile and throws things in front of the children, that is extremely frighting to a child. They should not have to be exposed to such violence.
Edit to add: A HFA is high-functioning until they aren't. Alcoholism is progressive. It never gets better on its own. My father never felt like he had an alcohol problem because he went to work every day and didn't drink until he got off work. He died from cirrhosis of the liver and would never admit he was an alcoholic.
I lived my first 8 years with both parents, but my father was an alcoholic. While he wasn't a mean drunk, his drinking did affect me in that he was gone a lot and when he was home, he was sleeping or arguing with my mother.
If your husband is volatile and throws things in front of the children, that is extremely frighting to a child. They should not have to be exposed to such violence.
Edit to add: A HFA is high-functioning until they aren't. Alcoholism is progressive. It never gets better on its own. My father never felt like he had an alcohol problem because he went to work every day and didn't drink until he got off work. He died from cirrhosis of the liver and would never admit he was an alcoholic.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
There is no such thing as an "HFA." Alcoholics only "function" until they no longer can.
From what you've described, he isn't "functioning" as a parent or as a partner. Earning a living isn't enough--and that may well go at any time if he starts drinking on the job, showing up late for work, and generally screwing up his responsibilities to his employer.
There are many, many adult children of alcoholics here on this forum who can tell you about their miserable childhoods and how it still affects them now. Many of them say how they wished that the sober parent had divorced the alcoholic and spared them the sadness, fear, and chaos of living with an active alcoholic.
Alcoholism is progressive. Unless he decides to get sober and stay that way for good, this is the very BEST he will ever be--and it is likely to get worse, much worse, as time goes on.
From what you've described, he isn't "functioning" as a parent or as a partner. Earning a living isn't enough--and that may well go at any time if he starts drinking on the job, showing up late for work, and generally screwing up his responsibilities to his employer.
There are many, many adult children of alcoholics here on this forum who can tell you about their miserable childhoods and how it still affects them now. Many of them say how they wished that the sober parent had divorced the alcoholic and spared them the sadness, fear, and chaos of living with an active alcoholic.
Alcoholism is progressive. Unless he decides to get sober and stay that way for good, this is the very BEST he will ever be--and it is likely to get worse, much worse, as time goes on.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Incidentally, if you divorce, they won't "lose" their father. He will remain in their lives to the extent he is able to--they will, however, be spared the day-to-day chaos. His parenting time with them can be limited if necessary, but there is always the possibility and hope that someday he will decide to get well and be a reliable parent again. I've seen it happen. It may not happen for a very long time, though, and it may never happen at all.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 303
Alcoholism is progressive-- meaning, unless they seek recovery of their own will, what you are currently living with is as good as it gets. A high functioning alcoholic doesn't really exist.
All his lack of or barely functioning aside-- how are YOU functioning? Is this the life you want? You are worth more than abuse.
(I left a similar, spiraling situation. There's hope! My kids are thriving and happy. I am thriving and happy. It was rough and exhausting, but God took care of us.)
All his lack of or barely functioning aside-- how are YOU functioning? Is this the life you want? You are worth more than abuse.
(I left a similar, spiraling situation. There's hope! My kids are thriving and happy. I am thriving and happy. It was rough and exhausting, but God took care of us.)
Bunnies!
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,905
I'm an Adult Child of an Alcoholic. My mother is my qualifier.
1) There is no such thing as a "high functioning" alcoholic. If you have to have alcohol and can't fathom getting through life without it, you aren't functioning.
2) It will get worse. If he doesn't make the choice to get sober, it's going to continue to spiral out of control. And there's nothing you can do to stop it.
3) Having no father is better than having an alcoholic father. And I will stand by that until the day I die. You can't protect the children as long as he's still there. You may think it's protecting, but what it really is, is teaching them to lie and cover up - teaching them that this dysfunction is normal and to be expected. Is this the kind of life you want them to choose for themselves when they're older? They are learning from the two of you, and right now neither of you is setting a good example. Do you attend Al-Anon? You will find a lot of help there.
1) There is no such thing as a "high functioning" alcoholic. If you have to have alcohol and can't fathom getting through life without it, you aren't functioning.
2) It will get worse. If he doesn't make the choice to get sober, it's going to continue to spiral out of control. And there's nothing you can do to stop it.
3) Having no father is better than having an alcoholic father. And I will stand by that until the day I die. You can't protect the children as long as he's still there. You may think it's protecting, but what it really is, is teaching them to lie and cover up - teaching them that this dysfunction is normal and to be expected. Is this the kind of life you want them to choose for themselves when they're older? They are learning from the two of you, and right now neither of you is setting a good example. Do you attend Al-Anon? You will find a lot of help there.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,497
I am an adult child of two alcoholic parents.. both gone now, died from complications of having been alcoholics.
I was so happy when my not-yet-drinking mother divorced my father.. I was 12. before that, every night was pretty much the same- him going off to the bar, coming home staggering drunk, and an argument, and he finally passing out. it was always a relief when he did.
He was never cruel to me intentionally, was tender with me, when sober, and tried to teach us good values. But it was always so wonderful when he would take off, sometimes for months, maybe more, and we had to stay with my grandmother.. we were finally able to relax. this went on and on, until she divorced him .
One of my most painful memories is when my father threw a bowl of our beautiful Easter eggs against the wall, during an argument with my mom, while he was drunk. To this day I can feel the heartache,,, just Easter eggs, but special to children.
I still can feel the shock , pain and sadness of that moment in time, and I am 63.
I say a peaceful home is the most important thing you can give a child. Peace, love and laughter.
I am glad you are asking yourself these questions. Because you only get one chance to give your children what they need.
hugs
chicory
I was so happy when my not-yet-drinking mother divorced my father.. I was 12. before that, every night was pretty much the same- him going off to the bar, coming home staggering drunk, and an argument, and he finally passing out. it was always a relief when he did.
He was never cruel to me intentionally, was tender with me, when sober, and tried to teach us good values. But it was always so wonderful when he would take off, sometimes for months, maybe more, and we had to stay with my grandmother.. we were finally able to relax. this went on and on, until she divorced him .
One of my most painful memories is when my father threw a bowl of our beautiful Easter eggs against the wall, during an argument with my mom, while he was drunk. To this day I can feel the heartache,,, just Easter eggs, but special to children.
I still can feel the shock , pain and sadness of that moment in time, and I am 63.
I say a peaceful home is the most important thing you can give a child. Peace, love and laughter.
I am glad you are asking yourself these questions. Because you only get one chance to give your children what they need.
hugs
chicory
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 126
I wonder the same thing, but tell myself they would rather a mummy who was settled, happy, predictable, etc rather than depressed in a stink marriage and how we discipline and be with our kids is totally what mood and state your in. like do you have less patience and kindness with the kids when you are super angry annoyed or hurt by him?
I read in here adult children of A have issues with the non drinker than the drinker themselves, because the drunk is just a drunk but the non drinker is full on co defence and has all sorts of issuesetc?I find that quite interesting,.
I read in here adult children of A have issues with the non drinker than the drinker themselves, because the drunk is just a drunk but the non drinker is full on co defence and has all sorts of issuesetc?I find that quite interesting,.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 89
I'm an ACOA. My father was an alcoholic. I can't say what you should choose, but I can tell you that I grew up thinking my feelings were not important. I grew up thinking that all husbands yell and swear and expect perfection in everyone else. I grew up thinking that I somehow caused my dad's dislike of me. I grew up thinking, if only I did X, dad wouldn't drink. And I grew up to expect this would be "normal" for my own adult life. And guess what? I grew up to marry an alcoholic, because this is what felt normal to me.
And now, I just want the peace and serenity that I've never had.
BTW, my dad was never physically violent, he never threw things, broke things, punched walls, hit people, nor got a DUI. He just never learned how to handle stress without drinking. And drinking brought out his angry, demanding side.
Sending you hugs and prayers.
And now, I just want the peace and serenity that I've never had.
BTW, my dad was never physically violent, he never threw things, broke things, punched walls, hit people, nor got a DUI. He just never learned how to handle stress without drinking. And drinking brought out his angry, demanding side.
Sending you hugs and prayers.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 537
Originally Posted by johnno1 
I read in here adult children of A have issues with the non drinker than the drinker themselves, because the drunk is just a drunk but the non drinker is full on co defence and has all sorts of issuesetc?I find that quite interesting,.
My dad was not a drinker but was both autistic, and abusive.
I have waaaay more anger towards my mum who refused to keep us safe, and to keep our dad in our lives. I'm sure she believed her reasons at the time...that we needed a 'dad' and that she'd never live down the shame of divorce.
I feel that she had a choice...whereas he was what he was. I thought she had the ability to think more rationally that he did...that he had no capability. I hated what he did, I have no love for him, but whilst I love my mum, I also have had a lot of anger towards her. I have heard acoa's say the same. Now I realise she was as dysfunctional as he was.
Also, I've told this story here before. My Rah's employment gave him the air of a HFA. He was a high level, senior exec with nice suits, and pay packet to match. I believe that this enabled him to look like he in the stage of 'high functioning' for longer than he really was. Having a job enabled him.
Then, very quickly, he suddenly couldn't keep up the pretense anymore, and went from 'HF' to completely non-functioning in what seemed to be a single week. He lost that job, and the true extent of the disease revealed itself. He almost lost his life (suicide attempts, 4x ER admissions with a BAC of .4 or more).
I used to comfort myself that he was 'just' a HFA...believed I was shielding the kids. I was in more denial than he was.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 2,066
Originally Posted by LexieCat
Incidentally, if you divorce, they won't "lose" their father. He will remain in their lives to the extent he is able to--they will, however, be spared the day-to-day chaos.
Bunnies!
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,905
Originally Posted by johnno1
I read in here adult children of A have issues with the non drinker than the drinker themselves, because the drunk is just a drunk but the non drinker is full on co defence and has all sorts of issuesetc?I find that quite interesting,.
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
It's not ideal growing up with a grumpy father. Are they on eggshells all the time? Or is it just the occasional outburst?
As the daughter of parents who drank too much when I was in my teens, I know how miserable that made me, especially as my mother was an angry nasty drinker. However when sober they were great parents who looked after us well and I wouldn't have wanted either of them out of the house. Just for them to stop drinking.
The ideal situation would be for you to approach your AH again, explain how miserable you are, and how his drinking is affecting the children. You say he refuses to seek treatment, which is a typical A reaction of avoidance, but maybe he doesn't appreciate fully the impact of his drinking? Or hasn't been able to face it.
My thought is that you write him a carefully crafted letter, concentrating on how you feel, and the affect on the children. Emphasise how serious you are about it, and give him time to digest it. What outcome are you looking for? A good start would be for both of you to go to counselling, especially with an addiction specialist. At least you'd be able to work out how serious he is about your marriage and family life. It may take this realisation before he's fully motivated to stop drinking.
If he refuses treatment or counselling, you have your answer right there.
As the daughter of parents who drank too much when I was in my teens, I know how miserable that made me, especially as my mother was an angry nasty drinker. However when sober they were great parents who looked after us well and I wouldn't have wanted either of them out of the house. Just for them to stop drinking.
The ideal situation would be for you to approach your AH again, explain how miserable you are, and how his drinking is affecting the children. You say he refuses to seek treatment, which is a typical A reaction of avoidance, but maybe he doesn't appreciate fully the impact of his drinking? Or hasn't been able to face it.
My thought is that you write him a carefully crafted letter, concentrating on how you feel, and the affect on the children. Emphasise how serious you are about it, and give him time to digest it. What outcome are you looking for? A good start would be for both of you to go to counselling, especially with an addiction specialist. At least you'd be able to work out how serious he is about your marriage and family life. It may take this realisation before he's fully motivated to stop drinking.
If he refuses treatment or counselling, you have your answer right there.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 16
Ok, thank you so much for your responses!
What I am hearing overwhelmingly is that the difficulties of living with an alcoholic parent far outweigh the positive moments that you have had because the parent stayed...
I guess there is a part of me that feels uncomfortable with judging a persons future actions eg he'll probably get worse and I feel bad about leaving when he has positive days with them, but it seems that because the parent's mood cannot be relied upon, the impact is still overwhelmingly negative? Would that be a fair comment?
He is making his choices and they don't get a say, unless I do it for them, so although I fear he may spiral if we leave, thus making the relationship worse, at least they will not have to live the chaos?
What I am hearing overwhelmingly is that the difficulties of living with an alcoholic parent far outweigh the positive moments that you have had because the parent stayed...
I guess there is a part of me that feels uncomfortable with judging a persons future actions eg he'll probably get worse and I feel bad about leaving when he has positive days with them, but it seems that because the parent's mood cannot be relied upon, the impact is still overwhelmingly negative? Would that be a fair comment?
He is making his choices and they don't get a say, unless I do it for them, so although I fear he may spiral if we leave, thus making the relationship worse, at least they will not have to live the chaos?
Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Miles from Nowhere
Posts: 396
I'm an ACOA. My father was an alcoholic. I can't say what you should choose, but I can tell you that I grew up thinking my feelings were not important. I grew up thinking that all husbands yell and swear and expect perfection in everyone else
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,050
My mom was one who left. That doesn't mean everything is magically better. My dad remained "high functioning" for many years, whatever that means. He held down a job, he was a closet drinker. I never associated the word alcoholic with his behavior until I was in my twenties, and by then I had already internalized his mood swings, blame shifting, sarcastic criticism and rages. I guess he got caught drinking at work and they sent him to rehab. I'm not really sure because by then we were estranged due to his drinking, lies and thievery.
My mom thought she "got rid of her problem" when she left my dad, but she didn't do any work on herself afterward, so all the codependent traits, the control, the criticism, the future tripping, etc. just got dumped into her other relationships- primarily on me and my younger brother, but also into her friendships and the few romantic relationships she had after my dad.
A boundary of not living and raising your children in an alcoholic home is a good one, but it is only half the issue. The other half lies with you. Something you can start doing now is Alanon or Celebrate Recovery meetings. I am in Alanon, but sometimes childcare options are limited. CR has programs for younger children so you wouldn't have to leave your little ones with their father if he's been drinking.
My mom thought she "got rid of her problem" when she left my dad, but she didn't do any work on herself afterward, so all the codependent traits, the control, the criticism, the future tripping, etc. just got dumped into her other relationships- primarily on me and my younger brother, but also into her friendships and the few romantic relationships she had after my dad.
A boundary of not living and raising your children in an alcoholic home is a good one, but it is only half the issue. The other half lies with you. Something you can start doing now is Alanon or Celebrate Recovery meetings. I am in Alanon, but sometimes childcare options are limited. CR has programs for younger children so you wouldn't have to leave your little ones with their father if he's been drinking.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,805
My mother is an alcoholic. Growing up, she clearly suffered from personality disorders that progressed into alcoholism after my sister and I were grown, that I can tell. My father is the biggest in denial, codependent you could ever imagine. And as it has been stated here before, I am not sure who I find to be more infuriating or sick, my mother or my father. My husband is the child of alcoholics. His father passed from complications of his alcoholism at the age of 59. His mother developed cirrhosis of the liver and almost died, but then became a non-drinker in her 60s and is still alive. His family is not close at all. There would be too much dysfunction to overcome in this lifetime to really do true reparations. His eldest sister did not even attend her father's funeral.
All that I can say is that it has been my husband and my largest focus in life that our children be raised in an emotionally healthy environment. Both of us had our "healthier" parents lament to us about the other parent when we were still confused kids. My husband and I both would have liked our parents to divorce as anything seemed better than the chaos and drama that was a constant in our homes. My sister and I remember crying and huddling in my bed calling divorce hotlines during one of my parents' at least weekly dramatic screaming matches. It was terrible. I always felt like (and still do) collateral damage in my parents' relationship. They were addicted to dysfunction, drama and later in life, alcohol and they had little concern about how we were being affected. I am in my 40s, married, with four children and I have experienced a lot of life's natural, sometimes major, ups and downs at this point in my life, but nothing has affected me more than the trauma of my parents. I feel like I will be healing from their mess for the rest of my life.
Finally, since my husband and I did not have a clue as to what a healthy family situation looked like, we made a lot of mistakes. Since my parents drank nightly since I can remember, but were wealthy and "high functioning", for the longest time I thought drinking nightly was normal and I developed a drinking problem myself. I have been sober for 18 months now and I never new life could be so good, but honestly, until my mom's alcoholism got over the top, I did not have a clue about how little normal Americans really drink. I do very little lecturing to my children. I work hard on being my healthiest self and my husband and I work hard to have a healthy marriage because we want to be good examples. I think our living example is what really influences our children and I want to be a healthy example, not the opposite.
All that I can say is that it has been my husband and my largest focus in life that our children be raised in an emotionally healthy environment. Both of us had our "healthier" parents lament to us about the other parent when we were still confused kids. My husband and I both would have liked our parents to divorce as anything seemed better than the chaos and drama that was a constant in our homes. My sister and I remember crying and huddling in my bed calling divorce hotlines during one of my parents' at least weekly dramatic screaming matches. It was terrible. I always felt like (and still do) collateral damage in my parents' relationship. They were addicted to dysfunction, drama and later in life, alcohol and they had little concern about how we were being affected. I am in my 40s, married, with four children and I have experienced a lot of life's natural, sometimes major, ups and downs at this point in my life, but nothing has affected me more than the trauma of my parents. I feel like I will be healing from their mess for the rest of my life.
Finally, since my husband and I did not have a clue as to what a healthy family situation looked like, we made a lot of mistakes. Since my parents drank nightly since I can remember, but were wealthy and "high functioning", for the longest time I thought drinking nightly was normal and I developed a drinking problem myself. I have been sober for 18 months now and I never new life could be so good, but honestly, until my mom's alcoholism got over the top, I did not have a clue about how little normal Americans really drink. I do very little lecturing to my children. I work hard on being my healthiest self and my husband and I work hard to have a healthy marriage because we want to be good examples. I think our living example is what really influences our children and I want to be a healthy example, not the opposite.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
You may not be able to predict his future behavior, but the course of the disease is pretty predictable--it WILL get worse. He may become pathetic, rather than overtly abusive, but is that a good thing for the kids?
I know many alcoholics whose wives/husbands have divorced them, who eventually found recovery and now have wonderful relationships with their children (and even their exes, at times). But they almost never blame their ex for leaving, and many of them are grateful that their kids were spared the worst of their drinking.
I know many alcoholics whose wives/husbands have divorced them, who eventually found recovery and now have wonderful relationships with their children (and even their exes, at times). But they almost never blame their ex for leaving, and many of them are grateful that their kids were spared the worst of their drinking.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
