FireSprite

With all due respect, the nature of your relationship doesn't change the validity of her examples.

Those SAME words work regardless of the bond between the people involved - whether it is wife-to-husband, husband-to-wife, parent-to-child, friend-to-friend - the advice is solid; it is the individual's emotions that change.

hopeful4

I think I understand where you are coming from seek. That would be so so hard to handle. Anxiety for me was a trigger all the time. I nearly had a nervous breakdown. It was learning to live with the anxiety and triggers and to not let them control me and send me into orbit. They were controlling my life. It took some serious counseling and support to actually change.

I feel this way about recovery. You can support someone while they support themselves. You can encourage them. However, you cannot be their sole support system because of what that causes in you. Sort of like having to put on the air mask first so you are of help to anyone else.

Most rehabs offer family counseling. Have you looked into that? Especially doing so together with him? While I agree that feelings can be indicators of something broken or wrong, it's not always within our control to fix what is wrong.

I offer you huge hugs. Again, I wish I knew the answers but I can only say never stop hoping and never give up.

Tight Hugs!

seek

Thanks, hopeful . . . Yes, I have asked to be part of the counseling, and I think that would help me a lot, but right now the focus is on other family members.

FireSpite: I can only speak of my own experience, but FOR ME, the feelings are much different in a child/parent/grandparent dynamic than a husband/boyfriend (and I've had both experiences) . . . what makes it harder for me is that he is so young and does not have actual "life skills" - so when getting out of rehab, there are all kinds of things he will have to deal with that other people - people who have been established do not have to face. It makes it all the more problematic for me to hear of particular plans . . . I know I have to "let go" - but being hopeful and supporting and "letting go" seem to be mutually exclusive actions/concepts for me.

FireSprite

I think it really depends seek, & that's why there isn't a one-size-fits-all answer.

If it's a trigger that relates to something very deeply imbedded - like inner child issues of my own - then I need to take a long, hard road of self-reflection. I need to follow the trigger, identify it's source & then figure out a way to change the way I feel/think about it. It may take days or months. There may be 5 different triggers for the same thing yet I don't realize until I trigger 5 separate times.

If it's more surface than that & relates to communication or behaviors then I can change it more simply. One of my triggers used to be receiving my credit card statements in the mail because of RAH's impulse spending - so I switched to paperless & track the activity online now instead. Now I don't trigger every time I get that envelope in the mail. Eventually, hopefully, I will "forget" that stressful trigger & if I get a new credit card & they send me a paper statement, I won't freak out internally.

seek

Yes. I understand.

Right now I have a post-it note on the right side of my computer screen because I like to go on Facebook, but I am absolutely triggered when I see my grandson on chat (because he is not supposed to be on Facebook and it could indicate all kinds of things that would freak me out). This was a real problem for me until I put the post-it note on the screen. In a way it is being in denial - because I can't handle knowing some things and can't live my life with stuff in my face all of the time.

FireSprite

I absolutely realize that the feelings are different in each type of relationship; my feelings related to my AF & my AH differ, certainly. I'm not disagreeing with your point at all.

lillamy

I need this tattooed on the inside of my eyelids.

I have a kid with comorbid mental illnesses. Part of it is past abuse, part of it is whatever-it-is-that-causes-mental-illness. I have fought and fought and fought to get her the support, the medications, the treatment she needs. I have done everything that I can do, as a parent. I can't go in to her therapist with her and make her make good use of her time any more than I could force her father to stop drinking.

The worry and anxiety and pain I feel is mine to handle. Yes, it would all diminish if she would use the safety net she has. But I have no control over whether she does or not. I have set it up, and it's up to her what she does with it.

There's absolutely a different emotional relationship with a child than with a spouse. Harsh as it may sound, you can always find a new spouse. Kids are forever. But that doesn't change the fact that I have no more control over my child than I did over my spouse. The only thing I do have any control over is myself. And so while she goes to therapy and doctors, I do the same thing. Whether I would need to do it had she not had these problems is beside the point. I am responsible for my own well-being and for taking the steps I can to take care of myself.

I can sometimes get into a victim mindset where I pity myself for the position I'm in and where I'm upset at my child for making the choices she's making -- but at the end of the day, the only thing that accomplishes is making me more miserable.

I learned that lesson in relationship to AXH. But I haven't learned it enough, apparently, since my HP is giving me another opportunity.

seek

All true. What practical tools do you use on a daily basis?

atalose

None of us want to hurt anyone’s feelings or cause them further hurt or pain

BUT

When do OUR feeling count more?

When do WE get to not have OUR lives disrupted by “family” who just likes to stop by whenever they feel like it?

Why can’t we just say NO to requests for money that we know will be drinked away, druged away or gambled away? Knowing someone has an addiction and handing them money is no different then handing them the booze or drugs………………not very loving is it?

It all has to start with learning what is healthy behavior and what is not. Just because some families drop in on others doesn’t make that healthy or loving behavior. Family is NOT a license for abuse or disrespectful behavior.

Learning what detachment is because detachment doesn’t mean you STOP loving or caring.

Again learning healthier way s to approach life is a big help to our peace of mind and ability to deal with our loved ones.

The best tool of all is one little simple word - NO

Thumper

Up front. I'm a parent but not a parent of an addict. I can not imagine anything more painful. This is not advice but things that I have found work for me.

Sometimes I read. When it is very bad I can't focus on reading. At those times I get up and do a task that has a clear start and finish (that was my counselors idea.) It has to have a clear end or I would never go back to bed When my mind wanders I bring it back around to the task at hand. Some things I've done - cleaned the fridge, cleaned the bathroom, taken care of the cat boxes and filled their bowls, straightened shoes (I have four kids so that is a lot of shoes and boots and I get some satisfaction of seeing them organized). Simple activities that require some physical work.

I have the same struggle. They come (and even if they call I have a hard time saying no) and I get stressed and crabby. I have found that if I invite them more often (or make other kinds of plans) it works for me better because I have control over the time and space and my schedule and they show up unannounced or ask to come much less often.

When dealing with other's feelings in general I picture us in our mind with hula hoops and go through a set of mental questions and place their feelings, emotions, reactions in their hula hoop, and mine in mine, and then I keep repeating a phrase like "Her hula hoop is hers, focus on mine" and while it seemed very contrived at first, it has helped A LOT over time.

I'll use my brother as an example. He used to ask me for $$ to buy food, phone bill forgiveness (he's on my plan), etc. etc. He had two kids and that make it hard for me to say no but I began to say No. I'd just say 'No, I can't do that right now." and offer no other comment. He didn't really ask me why not. He may have been mad but not mad enough to stop asking for a good long while . I was able to use the hula hoop thing to work through that. He used to ask me to ask our dad. I also started saying no to that. We are not young. That was in our late 30's and early 40's - HA! No one starved and they still have the same apartment so I guess they figured it out without me after all.

lillamy

Detach, detach, detach. How you do that, I don't know. Someone here said that she worked daily on telling herself "I have no control over X" until one day, it clicked. It took me a long time with AXH; it's taking a long time with my kiddo.

And for me it's one of those ongoing things. I talk to my therapist a lot about this (she must feel like I'm a slow learner). It's a two step forward, one step back process. And I struggle with it because we're so hard-wired to caretake and I feel guilty when I step back, even though I know it's the only thing I can do.

My aunt is married to a quiet guy -- I rarely hear him speak. Once when they were in a really stressful situation (involving money and fraud and unsavory business partners), my aunt was running around like a chicken with her head cut off and telling him all the things that could go wrong and that kept her up at night and finally she lost it with him, because he was just sitting there, and yelled: "DON'T YOU EVER WORRY?"

And he looked at her and said: "Worry? That help? Cuz if it does, I guess I could try to worry a little bit."

That's what I try to tell myself when I get all spun up. Worry doesn't help. It's a completely useless waste of energy. I really like the link that Firesprite posted, and I try doing something similar: I analyze and pick apart my worry, and if I find that my worry is just emotions spinning around and that there really is nothing I have any control over -- that actually helps. It's a bit like watching a disaster in a faraway country -- I can donate money to the Red Cross, but after that, there isn't a whole lot I can do. Worrying about it isn't going to make starving children fed. And I try to take the same attitude on the homefront.

I wish I had a one, two, three-step plan for how to fix the worrying, but I don't. It's one day after another working on it, and therapy, and I'm considering anti-anxiety drugs as well.

Here's the link to the post I was talking about: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ing-worry.html

Thumper

It also occurs to me that these types of things are a little like weight loss for me. I don't feel any different for a long time. With weight loss the process sucks, is hard, makes me crabby, muscles hurt, I actually cry, and it all seems pointless. I starve (not really but feels like it - ha!) all day, no comfort food, cry through a work out and look in the mirror wanting to see something different before I go to bed. Nothing!! $#*&^* But after 6mos of consistent work - I look up and am 20 pounds thinner.

I used to do the hula hoop thing a lot and the entire process was painstaking because a) I had to meticulously go through these mental questions so often and b) I didn't actually feel any better. I still felt crappy/worried/upset/guilty etc. One day I realized I got through an exchange with only the briefest stop at the hula hoop corral and that I didn't even feel guilty when I thought about it. Find an action that seems like it might work and consistently work it - even if you don't feel any different right away.

seek

Great suggestions, Thumper - I could have cleaned the bathtub last night, as I was stressing in my bed! Next time, I will get up and do it!

Lots of little chores like that I could do: Fridge, bathtub, toilet, etc.

Thank you for sharing!

seek

One of my sticking points is that my grandson is very young and doesn't have a lot of life skills. I raised kids and they all went through their struggles, and I was able to let go because they had basics covered (jobs, apartments, basics).

The combination of alcoholism with lack of resources is just too much for me. It's that combo that just gets to me. I know there are infinite other combos that could get to me, but that is the one I am working with at the moment!