Trying to cut off kids entirely to AW
Stoic
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wash D.C.
Posts: 321
Trying to cut off kids entirely to AW
I don't have a question, this is more of an update of sorts...maybe to spark some conversation if anyone else has done/gone through a similar legal action.
So, last night, my AW made her court-allowed phone call to the kids (with court stipulation that she be sober during the call). I listened to the beginning of the conversation as I always do, but didn't detect anything out of the ordinary, so I went and helped the younger child with his bath while my 8 year old was on the phone to her mom.
I went back to listen to the conversation after the fact (I record all the conversations) and it was appalling. Not long after I left the room, the conversation quickly turned extremely inappropriate, it became obvious that my wife was drunk...and getting drunker during the conversation as it went on (about 14 minutes)
I am angry at myself, most of all, for not recognizing that she was drunk when she called.
Anyways...
This morning, I wrote the Guardian ad Litem and explained the situation...and that I was very seriously considering taking a day off and driving to the courts there (8 hour round trip) to file and request the courts change the order to not allow her to call. I said that I cannot be expected to monitor my AW's sobriety from across the state, and somehow be the FCC and cut off communication when the conversations become inappropriate.
I asked the GaL if it would be likely that my request would be approved...as this would essentially cut off my AW from the children for the rest of their lives. (My AW has supervised visitation rights, but has not once come the four hours to visit the children in the year and a half since the protective order has been in place)
I feel like the court will be more likely to allow my request...since AW still is technically allowed to see the children via supervised visitation (though she never will...I know her too well, and anything remotely inconvenient to her drinking will not happen)
Guess I'm posting this, marking time until the GaL gets back to me in a few hours (hopefully). In any case, Happy Friday everyone, haha.
So, last night, my AW made her court-allowed phone call to the kids (with court stipulation that she be sober during the call). I listened to the beginning of the conversation as I always do, but didn't detect anything out of the ordinary, so I went and helped the younger child with his bath while my 8 year old was on the phone to her mom.
I went back to listen to the conversation after the fact (I record all the conversations) and it was appalling. Not long after I left the room, the conversation quickly turned extremely inappropriate, it became obvious that my wife was drunk...and getting drunker during the conversation as it went on (about 14 minutes)
I am angry at myself, most of all, for not recognizing that she was drunk when she called.
Anyways...
This morning, I wrote the Guardian ad Litem and explained the situation...and that I was very seriously considering taking a day off and driving to the courts there (8 hour round trip) to file and request the courts change the order to not allow her to call. I said that I cannot be expected to monitor my AW's sobriety from across the state, and somehow be the FCC and cut off communication when the conversations become inappropriate.
I asked the GaL if it would be likely that my request would be approved...as this would essentially cut off my AW from the children for the rest of their lives. (My AW has supervised visitation rights, but has not once come the four hours to visit the children in the year and a half since the protective order has been in place)
I feel like the court will be more likely to allow my request...since AW still is technically allowed to see the children via supervised visitation (though she never will...I know her too well, and anything remotely inconvenient to her drinking will not happen)
Guess I'm posting this, marking time until the GaL gets back to me in a few hours (hopefully). In any case, Happy Friday everyone, haha.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
I'm sorry, Resigned. Sorry your kiddo had to hear that and sorry your AW is stuck in alcoholism hell.
I've never dealt with anything like that, but I do believe protecting your children is the most important thing here. And I know that speaking with her when she is drunk is not in their best interest.
I'm thinking if you have the GAL's support in this, you could get the court to stop the calls. It sounds like you want that to happen, but you're heartbroken that you have to. Am I reading that right?
Your kids are lucky to have you. And I've heard over and over again from people growing up in less than ideal circumstances that all of them who came out healthy and productive and as happy as the next guy, that's what they had: ONE person who always stood by them and believed in them. You're that person to your kids. It's lonely. But it's the most important thing you'll ever do in your life. (((hugs)))
I've never dealt with anything like that, but I do believe protecting your children is the most important thing here. And I know that speaking with her when she is drunk is not in their best interest.
I'm thinking if you have the GAL's support in this, you could get the court to stop the calls. It sounds like you want that to happen, but you're heartbroken that you have to. Am I reading that right?
Your kids are lucky to have you. And I've heard over and over again from people growing up in less than ideal circumstances that all of them who came out healthy and productive and as happy as the next guy, that's what they had: ONE person who always stood by them and believed in them. You're that person to your kids. It's lonely. But it's the most important thing you'll ever do in your life. (((hugs)))
Stoic
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wash D.C.
Posts: 321
Originally Posted by lillamy 
It sounds like you want that to happen, but you're heartbroken that you have to. Am I reading that right?
Yeah, I have no remorse whatsoever about doing this. The children have come to their own opinions long ago about their mother, and I had no inputs with that.
The only things I have ever said about their mother is that she misses and loves them very much...they sort of realized that actions speak louder than words on their own. My 4 year old refuses to speak with her on the phone...when 8 year old brings him the phone, he screams no and won't take it. My 8 year old often tells me that she "hopes mommy doesn't call tonight".
It used to make me a little sad that they weren't having their mom in their lives...but I realized they have all the love and support they need already, so I don't worry about it anymore.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 494
The only thing I would wonder is if the recordings are considered 'evidence' - does your wife know that you record the calls? I think that in most states (or the district?) it is not legal to record a call without the other party's knowledge or consent.
I do understand your situation. I kept my XAH's voicemails (there he knows he's being recorded) in case I needed them to obtain a PO.
I do understand your situation. I kept my XAH's voicemails (there he knows he's being recorded) in case I needed them to obtain a PO.
Stoic
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wash D.C.
Posts: 321
I, and her, live in Virginia (I work in DC). VA is a one-party knowledge state, so as long as I know the conversation is being recorded, she doesn't have to know.
The GaL has listened to other recordings in the past also, and used them in court regarding the custody issues.
But thanks for looking out! =)
The GaL has listened to other recordings in the past also, and used them in court regarding the custody issues.
But thanks for looking out! =)
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 38
... but I realized they have all the love and support they need already, so I don't worry about it anymore. - ResignedToWait
This is very evident, just by your post alone! I just wanna commend you and your children for the strength you all portray... I can imagine what y'all have been through... So glad y'all are now on the other side! Wishing you courage, strength, and hope, always!
This is very evident, just by your post alone! I just wanna commend you and your children for the strength you all portray... I can imagine what y'all have been through... So glad y'all are now on the other side! Wishing you courage, strength, and hope, always!
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
ResignedToWait.....What a delimma. Like, between the Devil and the deep blue sea.
In the big picture..I can think on one "argument" on the side of the children having some
(SOME) kind of contact with their mother. I remember talking with a child psychiatrist about my concerns with my chidren and their father. Actually, my oldest--when he was 15yrs. old--wanted to go live with his father.
The psychiatrist told me that it was important that the child have a realistic view of their father--and that the child would draw their own conclusions about him.
He said that many children who are cut off from their develop a fantasy about the "perfect" missing parent---and, may later resent the custodial parent for preventing a relationship with the missing parent. In other words..."blaming" the custodial parent for everything and idolizing the missing parent in an unrealistic way.
Now, I knew that this would not work out from the get go...but, the pychiatrist said "let him go...he will want to come back, soon enough. I. very relunctantly, agreed.
Within 3 months my son was begging to come "home". I have never had to say a word about their father to them..in a negative way. As adults, they will all say that they "love" their father...but, would never want to live with him.....LOL.
Of course, every situation is different....my kid's father is a narcissistic jerk...but, I didn't have the safety issues that you are facing.
I can't offer any suggestions outside of, maybe even more limitations and even closer monitoring of the calls......
I am only putting one concept into the discussion. Food for thought.
Your job is sooo tough. You have my empathy on this!
dandylion
In the big picture..I can think on one "argument" on the side of the children having some
(SOME) kind of contact with their mother. I remember talking with a child psychiatrist about my concerns with my chidren and their father. Actually, my oldest--when he was 15yrs. old--wanted to go live with his father.
The psychiatrist told me that it was important that the child have a realistic view of their father--and that the child would draw their own conclusions about him.
He said that many children who are cut off from their develop a fantasy about the "perfect" missing parent---and, may later resent the custodial parent for preventing a relationship with the missing parent. In other words..."blaming" the custodial parent for everything and idolizing the missing parent in an unrealistic way.
Now, I knew that this would not work out from the get go...but, the pychiatrist said "let him go...he will want to come back, soon enough. I. very relunctantly, agreed.
Within 3 months my son was begging to come "home". I have never had to say a word about their father to them..in a negative way. As adults, they will all say that they "love" their father...but, would never want to live with him.....LOL.
Of course, every situation is different....my kid's father is a narcissistic jerk...but, I didn't have the safety issues that you are facing.
I can't offer any suggestions outside of, maybe even more limitations and even closer monitoring of the calls......
I am only putting one concept into the discussion. Food for thought.
Your job is sooo tough. You have my empathy on this!
dandylion
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
I'm so, so sorry for your daughter to have to listen to all of that. It has GOT to be utterly confusing to listen to a drunk ramble on inappropriately when you yourself are only EIGHT years old. It's hard enough for us as adults to tolerate & make any sense out of that nonsense. I think it makes sense to stop this if you have the ability to do so, it obviously stresses her out if she talks ahead of time about wishing mom wouldn't call that night.... and if this is the ONLY relationship that they have (inappropriate phone calls, no F2F visits, etc.) then IMO there is no real "relationship" at all to be preserved.... she has essentially already abandoned her children. (again, IMHO) (((((HUGS)))))
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
How does your 8 yo daughter feel about the calls? This might be important to her in some way. Maybe your Aw can talk to her only when you are on the call as well and only for a set period of time, say 5 minutes max. If the call starts to go south you can cut it off.
My children are adults and handle their relationship with their mother on their own so I don't really have any experience to share.
((((Hugs))))
Your friend,
My children are adults and handle their relationship with their mother on their own so I don't really have any experience to share.
((((Hugs))))
Your friend,
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,243
There are devices that can be court ordered that are breathalyzers that actually take their picture and send the results to all specified (court, wife, gal etc)
Have your attorney to have this added to conditions for phone calls....if they aren't sober no talky.
Have your attorney to have this added to conditions for phone calls....if they aren't sober no talky.
Stoic
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wash D.C.
Posts: 321
Dandylion, what an interesting point of view, regarding the kids possibly idolizing the missing parent!
That's a great point...I can definitely see the possibility of children maybe thinking that life would be better with the other parent...after all, this parent tells them to eat their vegetables, or that it's time for bed, etc! haha
Hopefully that doesn't become a reality, but I guess it's not something that worrying about will help.
I suppose when they turn 18 I can introduce them to the ACOA section in these forums. *tongue-in-cheek laugh*
That's a great point...I can definitely see the possibility of children maybe thinking that life would be better with the other parent...after all, this parent tells them to eat their vegetables, or that it's time for bed, etc! haha
Hopefully that doesn't become a reality, but I guess it's not something that worrying about will help.
I suppose when they turn 18 I can introduce them to the ACOA section in these forums. *tongue-in-cheek laugh*
Stoic
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wash D.C.
Posts: 321
Mike, she's never expressed any interest in them at all. I have always had to try and motivate her...doing things like "Oh, if mommy calls, don't forget to tell her about the A you got on your test", etc.
Hopeworks, good to know! It's good to have that in my back pocket as a suggestion once I hear how the GaL responds.
Hopeworks, good to know! It's good to have that in my back pocket as a suggestion once I hear how the GaL responds.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,582
Originally Posted by ResignedToWait
I, and her, live in Virginia (I work in DC). VA is a one-party knowledge state, so as long as I know the conversation is being recorded, she doesn't have to know.
The GaL has listened to other recordings in the past also, and used them in court regarding the custody issues.
But thanks for looking out! =)
The GaL has listened to other recordings in the past also, and used them in court regarding the custody issues.
But thanks for looking out! =)
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,913
I'm so sorry that your DD had to listen to that. I have no idea on the modification, but maybe an idea that your daughter could use: It's been a long while, but if his father was slurring his words and wasn't making sense, DS would actually just say "OK. Bye!" and hang up even if AXH was still talking.
Maybe just letting your daughter know she has permission to use that power might help her. "You can say good-bye whenever, and you can just hang up even if your mom doesn't say good-bye back."
Maybe just letting your daughter know she has permission to use that power might help her. "You can say good-bye whenever, and you can just hang up even if your mom doesn't say good-bye back."
Stoic
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wash D.C.
Posts: 321
Update:
After not hearing back from the GaL..I wrote her this morning and asked basically, "Do you have any thoughts on this, or does this fall into the category of not being able to help me because it would be considered legal advise?"
She immediately wrote me back and said that yes, it did fall into that category and included (paraphrased) "And while I find the recording extremely disturbing, I cannot advise you legally on what your next actions should be"
Yeah....I can read between the lines on that one.
I'm definitely going to be filing this week to have her phone calls restricted. (I feel like she wouldn't have included the "extremely disturbing" part in her reply unless she was trying wink wink nudge nudge me into filing)
After not hearing back from the GaL..I wrote her this morning and asked basically, "Do you have any thoughts on this, or does this fall into the category of not being able to help me because it would be considered legal advise?"
She immediately wrote me back and said that yes, it did fall into that category and included (paraphrased) "And while I find the recording extremely disturbing, I cannot advise you legally on what your next actions should be"
Yeah....I can read between the lines on that one.
I'm definitely going to be filing this week to have her phone calls restricted. (I feel like she wouldn't have included the "extremely disturbing" part in her reply unless she was trying wink wink nudge nudge me into filing)
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,582
Originally Posted by ResignedToWait
That's the case in the vast majority of states. Only 12 states have a two-party consent law (As of 2012): Cali, Conn, Fla, Ill, Mrylnd, Mass, Mich, Mont, Nev, NH, Penn, and Wash.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,052
All the love they need...
I've been thinking about this a lot. My daughter is 19 and her mom was drinking from when our daughter was 5 until she was 16. Our daughter didn't get all the love she needed-- not at all-- because she needed her mother's love and she didn't get it.
What she did get was my love, the love of her grandparents, and her aunts and uncles. What she had to learn to do, and she continues to work hard to do, is learn to be happy with the love she was getting-- NOT the love she needed and or wanted, but the love she was getting.
It's been hard for her. It's been very, very hard. But, today, she is making good and healthy decisions about her life, has accepted that she can't change the past, and seems to be learning how to be a happy person.
More than anything I wish your sons to be happy, but please consider that their mom's inability to love them is hurting them more than you think. Also, please don't read this as me suggesting she have more access to them-- I'm not. The less the better. IMHO the only thing that could hurt them more than her absence is her presence unless she demonstrates long term sobriety in the future.
My 2 cents.
Cyranoak
What she did get was my love, the love of her grandparents, and her aunts and uncles. What she had to learn to do, and she continues to work hard to do, is learn to be happy with the love she was getting-- NOT the love she needed and or wanted, but the love she was getting.
It's been hard for her. It's been very, very hard. But, today, she is making good and healthy decisions about her life, has accepted that she can't change the past, and seems to be learning how to be a happy person.
More than anything I wish your sons to be happy, but please consider that their mom's inability to love them is hurting them more than you think. Also, please don't read this as me suggesting she have more access to them-- I'm not. The less the better. IMHO the only thing that could hurt them more than her absence is her presence unless she demonstrates long term sobriety in the future.
My 2 cents.
Cyranoak
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
