counselling session
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
Reading around these forums & dealing with so many different-yet-the-same stories IRL I have come to believe that it's illogical of US to believe that they ever chose their DOC OVER us.
I think in an addict there is nothing but them & their DOC walled off from the inside & every single thing else in the world sits on the other side of that defense system. I think what starts as a choice moves quickly beyond that internally, unbeknownst to even them. While they always retain the power of choice (at least until much further into the progression), since that DOC resides inside the castle walls, like a Trojan horse, it arouses little-to-no suspicion from the addict him/herself until they have changed so much that they don't recognize themselves in all of it anymore either.... and the first thing they have to do is SEE that damn wall & choose to break it down to get to what's been on the other side all this time.
Addiction draws battlelines early on- them against everything/them against nothing, all at the same time.
That war isn't about me at all, it is not one bit personal no matter how long I was a POW or how much collateral damage I suffered. I had to wake up & get out of the line of fire & stop re-volunteering to head up the Peace Talks. I had to realize that as long as he was engaged in this kind of war with himself, he was never going to be healthy enough to REALLY be able to be the partner that I want/need. JMHO, maybe I'm romanticizing it too much.
I think in an addict there is nothing but them & their DOC walled off from the inside & every single thing else in the world sits on the other side of that defense system. I think what starts as a choice moves quickly beyond that internally, unbeknownst to even them. While they always retain the power of choice (at least until much further into the progression), since that DOC resides inside the castle walls, like a Trojan horse, it arouses little-to-no suspicion from the addict him/herself until they have changed so much that they don't recognize themselves in all of it anymore either.... and the first thing they have to do is SEE that damn wall & choose to break it down to get to what's been on the other side all this time.
Addiction draws battlelines early on- them against everything/them against nothing, all at the same time.
That war isn't about me at all, it is not one bit personal no matter how long I was a POW or how much collateral damage I suffered. I had to wake up & get out of the line of fire & stop re-volunteering to head up the Peace Talks. I had to realize that as long as he was engaged in this kind of war with himself, he was never going to be healthy enough to REALLY be able to be the partner that I want/need. JMHO, maybe I'm romanticizing it too much.
Baby Steps
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,689
Hi meggem. What do you mean I'm taking ownership of things that don't belong to me and he's counting on me to do this, do what? Sorry my head is pickled today.
Hi Santa Iam sure everyone has heard these words and it's not that I think I'm special as he said them to me but it's these words that make me think why he wouldn't seek help?
I feel stuck in my recovery and I am back to focusing on him. I was feeling very angry earlier now I can't stop crying and I think it's because I know I am going to see him tomorrow. How do I move forward if I can't even cope with everything!!
Hi Santa Iam sure everyone has heard these words and it's not that I think I'm special as he said them to me but it's these words that make me think why he wouldn't seek help?
I feel stuck in my recovery and I am back to focusing on him. I was feeling very angry earlier now I can't stop crying and I think it's because I know I am going to see him tomorrow. How do I move forward if I can't even cope with everything!!
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
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WORDS versus ACTIONS. he can SAY anything, but what do his ACTIONS tell you? not just recently, but over time. if i recall your story (and please forgive me if have it wrong!) he has left before, MULTIPLE TIMES. he didn't just START dirnking, he's been drinking for a long time. what you see today is NOT a surprise, he's been showing you who he is and what he is about FOR YEARS.
i'd say from what you've shared that he checked out years ago. and has just been going thru the motions, but hasn't been emotionally present in a very long time. when he left the very first time, that was a BIG RED FLAG. lack of commitment, lack of follow thru, incapable or unwilling to truly make the effort.
i'd say from what you've shared that he checked out years ago. and has just been going thru the motions, but hasn't been emotionally present in a very long time. when he left the very first time, that was a BIG RED FLAG. lack of commitment, lack of follow thru, incapable or unwilling to truly make the effort.
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 524
Correct me if I'm wrong or if I don't have the whole story but the reason I said you are taking ownership of things that don't belong to you because *you* are torn up and heartbroken (I understand) over choices *he* is making. You don't own his choice. It is his choice.
I have read a few times that your H says you are better off without him because he drinks too much, has intense mood swings and you are just better off without him. Well isn't that just convenient? Now you are wracking your brain and crying trying to figure out what person would give up his family for alcohol?
To me, I feel like you are taking ownership of a huge emotional upset that belongs to HIM. It has nothing to do with you. And when I said he is counting on you to do that, I think I mean, it keeps him from being completely responsible for his own behavior.
I know where you are at. I was there. I remember crying and being heartbroken and believing everything he said as to why and why not and how come and now when he sends me messages I think to myself - Does this belong to me - or him? Who owns this? Who's "problem" is it?
I can't wait until you get to the point where you say "I cannot BELEIVE I shed all of these tears over you. You had no idea what you had and you freakin LOST it PAL. I am worth so much more than this and I'm DONE with you" "DONE".
You don't deserve this at all. I know you are struggling.
I have read a few times that your H says you are better off without him because he drinks too much, has intense mood swings and you are just better off without him. Well isn't that just convenient? Now you are wracking your brain and crying trying to figure out what person would give up his family for alcohol?
To me, I feel like you are taking ownership of a huge emotional upset that belongs to HIM. It has nothing to do with you. And when I said he is counting on you to do that, I think I mean, it keeps him from being completely responsible for his own behavior.
I know where you are at. I was there. I remember crying and being heartbroken and believing everything he said as to why and why not and how come and now when he sends me messages I think to myself - Does this belong to me - or him? Who owns this? Who's "problem" is it?
I can't wait until you get to the point where you say "I cannot BELEIVE I shed all of these tears over you. You had no idea what you had and you freakin LOST it PAL. I am worth so much more than this and I'm DONE with you" "DONE".
You don't deserve this at all. I know you are struggling.
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 1,737
Originally Posted by Butterfly 
Why would anyone want to live this way. I am really finding it difficult to not feel rejected that I wasn't enough for him to want to stay with. What does it say about me the type of person I am where he would rather live with feelings of guilt, shame and intense low moods than be at home with his wife and kids.
Baby Steps
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Join Date: Apr 2014
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Thank you firesprite as I was reading your post the tears I've been holding back all day just flowed. I've been feeling a mix of emotions all day one minute I am so angry I could scream the next I want to cry but couldn't as I was in work! I was in a meeting today and was so angry that I became annoyed with a colleague and took it out on her, I had to apologise and I felt awful!!
Right at this minute and time I HATE HIM SO MUCH, I HATE WHAT HE HAS DONE TO KE AND MY KIDS I HATE HIM!!!! The anger I didn't ever think I would feel I have started to feel it and I am trying to deal with it even if it means talking to myself. When he emailed to tell me the other day that he feels shame guilt and intense lows I began to feel sorry for him and worry about him. He had emailed to tell me about a family members addiction, guess being hereditary condition could be true, and that he understood the shame guilt and intense lows as he experiences them everyday!! While I appreciated him telling me about the family member I don't see why he had to tell me that, trying to keep me hooked I suppose as I had no contact with him at all!
I am dreading seeing him tomorrow as every time I see him I have these overwhelming feelings of hurt, pain and devastation and I always end up crying and asking questions. At this time I would be very happy to never see him again it would make things so much easier!!
Right at this minute and time I HATE HIM SO MUCH, I HATE WHAT HE HAS DONE TO KE AND MY KIDS I HATE HIM!!!! The anger I didn't ever think I would feel I have started to feel it and I am trying to deal with it even if it means talking to myself. When he emailed to tell me the other day that he feels shame guilt and intense lows I began to feel sorry for him and worry about him. He had emailed to tell me about a family members addiction, guess being hereditary condition could be true, and that he understood the shame guilt and intense lows as he experiences them everyday!! While I appreciated him telling me about the family member I don't see why he had to tell me that, trying to keep me hooked I suppose as I had no contact with him at all!
I am dreading seeing him tomorrow as every time I see him I have these overwhelming feelings of hurt, pain and devastation and I always end up crying and asking questions. At this time I would be very happy to never see him again it would make things so much easier!!
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Join Date: Apr 2014
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Thank you meggem, anvil and Eddie.
Meggem thank you understanding what you meant and thank you for what you said
Anvil thank you your right he did check out a long time ago!! and I was stupid enough to believe that he would change as I was too important to lose suppose the alcohol was more important
Meggem thank you understanding what you meant and thank you for what you said
Anvil thank you your right he did check out a long time ago!! and I was stupid enough to believe that he would change as I was too important to lose suppose the alcohol was more important
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I agree it should come back to you, but understand your need to know "why," though it won't change anything in the relationship. For years I looked for some big "reason," some driving force as to why my X drank. One day in a counseling session he admitted that a lot of it is just boredom. I about passed out cold! Really, you are willing to risk our family and all we have out of boredom?? I think I was done at that very second. Sometimes those whys are more painful than just accepting what is.
Hugs my friend.
Hugs my friend.
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 106
Eddie,I'd click thanks on your post a million times if I could, so incredibly true.
Butterfly, it sounds to me like you are doing very well in moving forward. Do not let the grieving process fool you into thinking you aren't. Feeling confused,sad,angry...yep, all part of healing,working through it all. Do your best to not engage with him and by all means, forgive yourself for expressing those feelings and asking questions even when you know in your heart it won't change it...you are a loving woman in pain, your strength is in your ability to feel and deal with your feelings without shame ,not in the ability to not feel and never deal...while it may be easier to never see him again, you still need to finish the grieving process to fully let go.
Butterfly, it sounds to me like you are doing very well in moving forward. Do not let the grieving process fool you into thinking you aren't. Feeling confused,sad,angry...yep, all part of healing,working through it all. Do your best to not engage with him and by all means, forgive yourself for expressing those feelings and asking questions even when you know in your heart it won't change it...you are a loving woman in pain, your strength is in your ability to feel and deal with your feelings without shame ,not in the ability to not feel and never deal...while it may be easier to never see him again, you still need to finish the grieving process to fully let go.
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Join Date: Mar 2012
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If you have to meet up with him you do not need to do that alone. For your sake and the sake of your child, take a friend , or a family member with you.
Some one who will knock him back a few pegs. He needs to know that you are not weak in the face of alcoholism, it will give him great pleasure to see you weak. A relationship with someone who is an alcoholic is war, there are two people in this scenario who are of importance right now, you and your innocent child. Do not let him in, do not discuss anything with him, keep as much distance between you and him as possible. Let him see you as the strong , capable woman that you are and in turn your child will see you as such. The recovery of your child is as paramount as your own. You lead, your child follows. Gear up , you are already making great strides.
SR will be here , you can do this.
Some one who will knock him back a few pegs. He needs to know that you are not weak in the face of alcoholism, it will give him great pleasure to see you weak. A relationship with someone who is an alcoholic is war, there are two people in this scenario who are of importance right now, you and your innocent child. Do not let him in, do not discuss anything with him, keep as much distance between you and him as possible. Let him see you as the strong , capable woman that you are and in turn your child will see you as such. The recovery of your child is as paramount as your own. You lead, your child follows. Gear up , you are already making great strides.
SR will be here , you can do this.
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 215
After three failed relationships with people with addictions- I have finalized realized I'll never know why. My brain doesn't work like theirs. Don't get me wrong, I still have sad days but I finally realized I was never going to rectify my brothers overdose by trying to love and date addicts. Now I'm struggling with my own addiction of codependency😔
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and I was stupid enough to believe that he would change as I was too important to lose suppose the alcohol was more important
ok, first, you gotta get past seeing HIS actions as a true reflection of YOUR value. they are reflection upon HIM.
and second, going with your theory above for a moment, he never did LOSE you....he'd leave, he'd come back, and you stayed in place. each time you let him come back that was a tacit implication of "yes, that's fine, feel free to come and go as you please". and even now, yes he's out of the house, but you are still CONSUMED with him. every time you see him or talk to him you launch into the schpeil, ask the same questions, let him know you are still THERE. your counseling session was more about HIM than what's going on inside of YOU.
and he still gets to do exactly what he wants.
thirdly, tomorrow is about YOUR SON. so you hike up the big girl panties, and you plaster a smile on your face, and you focus on your dear dear boy. this event is not the time to have yet another "going nowhere fast" talk with the AH. DO NOT let this be about HIM. show your son that HE is worth it! that HIS is your number one!!!
ok, first, you gotta get past seeing HIS actions as a true reflection of YOUR value. they are reflection upon HIM.
and second, going with your theory above for a moment, he never did LOSE you....he'd leave, he'd come back, and you stayed in place. each time you let him come back that was a tacit implication of "yes, that's fine, feel free to come and go as you please". and even now, yes he's out of the house, but you are still CONSUMED with him. every time you see him or talk to him you launch into the schpeil, ask the same questions, let him know you are still THERE. your counseling session was more about HIM than what's going on inside of YOU.
and he still gets to do exactly what he wants.
thirdly, tomorrow is about YOUR SON. so you hike up the big girl panties, and you plaster a smile on your face, and you focus on your dear dear boy. this event is not the time to have yet another "going nowhere fast" talk with the AH. DO NOT let this be about HIM. show your son that HE is worth it! that HIS is your number one!!!
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
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It's an evil cycle. They feel awful about the addiction (sometimes), but then self medicate b/c they feel awful. Sometimes. Other times it's pure manipulation b/c they like the feeling they get from using and they try to manipulate you so you will agree to stay in their lives and continue on using. That's my take on all of it after all of these years.
Originally Posted by Butterfly
I am trying to focus on me but I need to understand a lot more about addiction and I am reading everything I can. But why would addicts want to live a life where they are so unhappy where they feel shame guilt and intense low moods daily???
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 494
Butterfly - what I meant is, if there was something terribly wrong with you, you'd be the only person that ever lost the choice the addict makes between family and bottle. It's not you; it's not any of us. It's them, or it's the disease. But it's not because of us.
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 215
I wish addiction didn't exist, it has bought a cloud of sadness to my life, my family's life, so many friends.....I wish there was a cure or it didn't exist. Sometimes my level of anger, frustration and sadness all combine and it's a feeling I would wish on no one. People that have never been affected or touched by addictions don't know how very lucky they are
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Butterfly......there will eventually come a day....when you will become so weary of the pain that it is no longer of any reward or value to you. That is when you will come into simple acceptance of the reality of who he is.
You will stop fighting the fight because acceptance brings a peace to your soul. Acceptance makes it possible to look to the future with expectation (at last), because you are no longer weighted down by the battle; the pain.
It seems that you are not quite there......yet. But, it will happen one day....
dandylion
You will stop fighting the fight because acceptance brings a peace to your soul. Acceptance makes it possible to look to the future with expectation (at last), because you are no longer weighted down by the battle; the pain.
It seems that you are not quite there......yet. But, it will happen one day....
dandylion
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Florida
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You won't ever figure out why you couldn't make him stop, because this has absolutely nothing to do with you. Zero, zilch, nada. His drinking isn't determined by anything you do or don't do. He has chosen alcohol because he is an alcoholic. You could be the perfect wife and he'd still choose alcohol as his first love. When you take yourself out of the equation, it gets better. I know it hurts our fragile codie egos to hear that we aren't the focus of their lives; not the center of their universe. But it's true.
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