ladyscribbler

No, his point was to put you on the defensive and it worked. Getting sucked into these types of arguments with an alcoholic is like playing whack a mole. Every time you think you have a handle on it, something else pops its ugly head up.
I can almost guarantee that even if you were on time for everything, every day for the rest of your life, he would find another flaw to point out if you dared to criticize his drinking. So you work really hard and fix that. Then his drinking is the issue, but wait, he found something else wrong with you. This is a cycle that will never end if you let it get started.
Maybe you two aren't compatible. You need a sober, freewheeling kind of guy who doesn't worry about watching the clock, he needs a punctual gal who loves to clean up after a grown man and accept the blame for every problem in the relationship.
I wasted too much time trying to make everything perfect so that my ex wouldn't want/need to drink, but nothing ever quite made the cut. Because it was never about me, it was alcoholism.

Idonotknow

But everybody does have their own flaws and imperfections, that is true.

dandylion

Dear Idonotknow.....he is using concrete reasoning with you. Yes, it is true that everyone has flaws, but the nature of the flaws and the impact o n the fabric of the relationship is the real determining factor if the relationship can survive or not.

For example, my sweet husband (non-alcoholic who died suddenly) as many wonderful qualities as he had---in reality, had many flaws. He had no desire to help with household chores; he did not help with the creative planning of social activities; he always underestimated time spent in his many civic activities--frequently late when meetings ran over time; even though he was an elected politician--he couldn't remember names!!!! He had no idea when to reorder his own medications; he did not eat a vegetable unless I supervised and enforced the eating; and, the list goes o n for pages.

However---he was the most intelligent, generous, funny, kind and loving individual I have ever known. He was a war hero, an elected politician, a successful corporate executive, a very talented actor, and he was so emotionally available to every person he met--no matter who they were. In addition he adored animals and nature and he LOVED ME!! He valued me and respected me and was always my soft place to fall. I trusted him with my life. He always encouraged me to be the best person I could be and he didn't criticize me.

If he had abused our rescue animals, or did not love my children (from first marriage to an ass****), or ever made me feel bad about myself as a person, or disrespected the waiters or other people, or was a womanizer or a cheat or lied to me or had an addiction that he put before me---or if he put his work before me---I would have divorced him.

You see, he did not put my virtual happiness as stake. He irritated me in other ways ....but, I could live with those things. I could suck it up and tolerate those things because the good soooo outweighed the bad.

By the same token, he had the same options with me. He had to decide if my flaws were irritations and something that we could work with or whether they undermined the integrity of our relationship.

All flaws do not have the same weight.

I am just explaining how I look at this situation.

dandylion

Idonotknow

This is what I wanted to know, I can respond to him with this.

Thanks...

Idonotknow

Is concrete reasoning a manipulation tactic?

Hawkeye13

Another alcoholic here:

I can tell you that what you are living with now will only get more frequent and more severe as time goes on if he doesn't seek recovery.

Alcoholism is progressive.
Let's suppose this is as good as his drinking behavior is going to get, and that
it will very likely get worse.

Are you ready and willing to accept that as part of your life?
Are you willing to eventually have children and bring them up living with an active drinker,
whether you or he call himself an alcoholic or not?

Are you ready to be challenged every time his drinking escalates with some "flaw"
you must change so that he can protect his precious bottle?

That's where it's headed. That's where I went over the years, and the whole time
I held a job, could stop drinking for weeks or months at a time, and told myself
since I could "handle" it and stop when I wanted, I didn't have a problem.

Problem was, I couldn't really stop. I just postponed and binged (like he does) and it eventually caught up to me.
I'm pretty typical and I bet his trajectory will be much the same, except it sounds like
he is already further along the path than I was in my 20s.

Not a fun ride for a significant other.
I hope you educate yourself on what you will be facing.
The stickys at the top are a good starting place.

Good luck

MesaMan

Ah yes, the ole 'me getting Drunk and falling on the Floor = you not putting that Dish in the Dishwasher' Fallacy. Either you laugh or you cry.

I love this List. Pick a Fallacy, any Fallacy. Alks master these. From this proverbial Arsenal of Fallacies, an Alk has to pick the right ones for the Codie they're manipulating.

List Of Fallacies

fairlyuncertain

Everyone has flaws. Not everyone is showing signs of a progressive disease that is threatening a relationship.

They are not the same thing. That 'oh yeah, well YOU do xyz' reply shows some immaturity and lack of relationship skills.

If he said he was upset that you were always late, and you said 'well, you drink too much so you can't criticize me,' that'd be a pretty pointless conversation, too.

To me, that's a red flag. Alcoholics do blame or point fingers at someone else's flaws when their drinking is at issue. It's pretty common.