Crazed

So while many of my threads have talked about the negatives of EXRAG, which has been translated into her being a terrible, unavailable and absent mom, I thought I would share this, and see if it you were her, what would you do?

Background:
EXRAG has been investing for kids college since they were about 3 years old through a Florida-prepaid tuition program. The annuities are paid in full, and both kids tuitions are paid for 4 year in-state programs. Ex husband is responsible for all other college expenses. (This is per divorce final judgement). Since ex husband is financially irresponsible, this has always been a concern of EXRAG, as she knew all financial responsibility would fall on her. So EXRAG also had 2 separate accounts with about 10k for each of the girls that was meant as an emergency fund.

In April EXRAG was in rehab for 60 days, unable to pay bills for her and father. Her eldest daughter said she would, but EXRAG had to give her power of attorney to access her bank account. In addition to paying the bills, unbeknownst to EXRAG until a few months ago, daughter also transferred 10k from moms account into her own bank account. When questioned about it, the daughter claimed she was told by her father that it was hers as it was "willed to her from EXRAGs aunt years ago." This is untrue, as no money from that will was left to either of the daughters (I was there at the reading of the will). She stole 10k from her mother.

EXRAG was furious at first, but accepts this as part of her consequences from drinking. At the end of they day the emergency fund is now being used to pay sorority dues, and college "fun money." Ex-Husband again financially off the hook, while mom is now financially strapped.

EXRAG will not confront her daughter, EVEN WHEN HER DAUGHTER IS COMPLETELY IN THE WRONG, because all roads lead back to "she's an alcoholic and a terrible mom, etc.". Basically the "I deserve it" mentality.

If you were in EXRAGs situation, what would you do? (I am just curious for viewpoints here)

Leana

Humm, this is a toughie. I do agree that the situation was directly related to her drinking. Her drinking led to her raising a daughter who didn't have a good parental example in her life and therefore led the daughter to having a lack of knowledge of choices/consequences, entitlement, and resentment. A BAD combination.

That said, if she is serious about her sobriety (and I am not sure she is) she needs to put the past in the past and start showing her daughter that choices do in fact have consequences. If she doesn't she is leading her daughter down the same path she followed. She needs to start being a parent and nothing is worse than a mom who parents out of guilt.

All that said. I would tell my child that the money was not an inheritance but even if it was, it was not hers to take and she was wrong. But since it was meant for her, she may keep it but once spent, that's it. No more. She will be on her own financially. And then I would not give this child another dime.

Seren

Being a step-parent can be a difficult thing, Crazed. I know that you and your ex, or current or however the two of you define your relationship now, were in a long-term, although chaotic relationship--and that you were there for many years for her two daughters.

I have two step children and two step-step children (my husband's stepsons from his marriage to his late wife). All of these people were adults when I first met my husband. Any relationship, financial support arrangements, or personal arguments that they have with their father(s) is not my business at all.

I'm sorry that these financial strains have been placed on your, forgive me please for I know not what to call her, girlfriend have everything to do with her own actions. Blaming a minor child for accepting a financial gift that she was told was hers by rights is not going to help your girlfriend or win back the affections of the child. These are financial arrangements that have taken place within the original (albeit broken) family unit and as such really are not your business, imho, regardless of how long the girls lived with you.

I know you are angry on your girlfriends behalf and concerned for her financial future, but what concerns me is that you are still more wrapped up in her than you are yourself or concerned about her children. I am not worried about her or the children--I'm worried about you.

Kat60

Well Crazed...
That decision to deal or not to deal with it and how is really not your place to get involved in AT ALL.

It is between the mother and the daughter. Period.

You continue on this slippery slope with your Ex and it concerns me...

shil2587

I have no answers, just wanted to extend my sympathy. Even when they stop drinking, the mess takes so long to deal with. *hugs*

Crazed

Thanks- I really am doing OK

Perhaps the more general question is:
"Does an alcoholic parent that has demonstrated poor choices ever get the right to be a disciplinary figure in their kids lives." She is 9 months sober and putting her life back together. Yet she feels like she has no right to stick up for herself, and allows kids and ex to walk all over her. "

And I do hold her daughter responsible for taking the money- these are learned traits of her irs-dodging, under-the-table-working father. She also read her mothers intimate recovery journals while she was in rehab, as did her ex-husband's wife. She in not just a completely helpless little kitten victim.

fluffyflea

Alanon meetings.

BunnyNest

It is not your concern. At all.

I can never see how I am inhibiting others recovery when I am caught up in it. I can never see how my relationship with my HP is inhibited because I am placing something, or someone, before my relationship with my HP. I can never see how detrimental I am to others until I step away and Let Go and Let God.

MissFixit

hi crazed

what is your relationship with the exgf? i ask this as you are EXTREMELY involved in her life. do you think there is some unfinished business or work on yourself you need to do to distance yourself from her? for your own health and sanity? are you in therapy?

you love exgf's kids. you helped raise them. that is very commendable. many people neglect their own kids, so helping with someone's else's was nice of you.

here's the sucky part, they are not your kids or your family or your responsibility or your concern anymore (i am so sorry for being this blunt. i want to be matter of fact w you). they are also adults or close to it so technically they are their OWN responsibility or close to it. what their parents or step-parents choose to do or not do is between that child and the parent/step...not anyone else's business. all families are different. their participation (financial/emotional) varies. what works for one, doesn't work for another.

the kid transferring money from her mom to herself is between mom and kid. if the dad told her that was hers, then i am sure that had an influence on her decision to make the transfer, but it is for the mom to deal with, not you. it is not a small sum of money but it is not enough to ruin a life or relationship over. what do you want/expect to do here? sue the child? tell her off? not worth it IMHO.

the mom allowing her kid and ex to walk all over her (as you put it) is VERY different from being a disciplinary figure (the kid is an adult, there are no disciplinary figures anymore like it or lump it). nope, mom doesn't ever get to be a disciplinary figure again. that time has passed. does she allow others to walk all over her, not if she chooses not to (but that is for mom to figure out and act upon or not).

out of curiosity, why are you so involved and invested in these people now?

Crazed

Exrag and I have been spending a little time together (a couple hours per week).

MissFixit

answers to your questions:

what would you do about the money transfer? nothing. get rid of POA.
does mom have right to discipline? no
does mom have right to stick up for herself? yes
do YOU hold daughter responsible for taking mom's money? no.

Hawkeye13

Hi crazed;
I responded to your other thread about an hour ago.
I don't agree with taking the money, but I do think there is little to be
done about it at this point short of taking the daughter to court.

I think the earlier advice given about not giving her any more, nor any access
to POA in the future is sound. These are now young adults.
They are not subject to "discipline" and quite frankly, to accept correction
as an adult from a parent, a parent has to have earned the right and trust over
years of good parenting and solid positive examples. Doesn't sound like this was the case.

As I said in the other thread, it is clear you care very much and want to help,
but letting your Ex sort this out with her kids without trying to champion her cause
may be the best course of action here. She has her own road to recovery to walk.

You may actually short-circuit the process if you try to cushion the difficult moments
much as someone in physical therapy has to get sore muscles and sometimes hurt a lot as they recover.
The therapist can't do the exercise for them.

Clearly, there has been much pain in this family dynamic.
It will not be healed soon or easily, and you have to be patient with the process.
Step back and support, but as others have noted, please pay attention to your
own recovery in this process. You are very deeply enmeshed.
Best to you and I hope your Ex finds recovery and the family healing in the end.

Crazed

Thanks all. I am purely asking out of curiosity. I am not involved.

POA was removed. Child was advised that money was destined for her anyways, but that is it. She was also informed that there was never any inheritance money for her.

This happened a few months ago- I was just wondering how others would have handed it.

atalose

It would appear you are way more emotionally invested in this entire situation then the mother is.

If the mom has accepted that this is a consequence for her years of alcohol abuse and what she put those kids through, then why can't you accept it.

This money was set up specifically for these kids and college, including an emergency fund. Now that the child has taken what was put away for her and using it for school related things like sorority dues, you make a harsh judgement and call her a thief.

I'd be thanking my lucky stars she's even in college trying to give herself a chance at doing something with her life.

Maybe what you are hearing is all of one side of the story. But it comes down to the FACT that the mother may be upset (not as upset as you) but she has accepted it and YOU are not going to change that either.

Maybe a few hours a week with her and all her drama is too much for you at this point in YOUR own recovery.

Florence

Crazed, I'm more curious what is missing in your life that you are so invested in your EX's finances and what her adult daughter does with HER money?

This is none of your business.

Crazed

I guess our definitions of stealing differ. It wasn't HER money. It was her mothers. Money her mother was saving for her daughter is not the same as giving money to her daughter. When you steal, you are by definition a thief.

And to add insult to injury, the 10k was first transferred to the step-mom's bank account.

NWGRITS

Yep. You can't control anything that anyone else does, but you sure can try to figure out your raging codependency and fix yourself. Honestly, this is their dysfunctional mess to sort out, not yours. If you keep trying to swoop down and save everyone, none of them is ever going to learn to do anything differently. Back off and let them fall flat on their faces. It's the compassionate thing to do that gives them the dignity of making their own mistakes and finding solutions (or not. Some people just keep digging once they hit bottom.).

BunnyNest

Please go back and re-read all the loving responses you have received.

I had to learn that the only person I control is me.

AlAnon and Codependent No More saved my life.

Seren

If your girlfriend believes that chicanery was involved, then she is within her rights to contact the attorney who originally settled the estate. Perhaps he or she will be able to provide some guidance.