Round and round and round
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 182
Round and round and round
Back in the cycle. Spend an hour thinking about why I should bring this relationship to a close then the next hour thinking how I really, honestly don't want to.
Lists and lists in my head. Pros and cons. Reasons to go and reasons to stay.
He drinks too much. He drinks more than he did last year. He has no "real" intention of finding recovery. He is an alcoholic and alcoholism is progressive.
It feels like his need for beer is greater than his need for me. He is drunk every night and at some point every evening I "lose" him to alcohol when that veil drops. My hopes and dreams and plans for the future get smaller and smaller. He would be content to live almost in poverty if he had access to beer. He can quack with the best of them. I deserve more than this from a relationship and I don't choose to watch him slowly kill himself.
I love him. He is kind and thoughtful towards me. He has never been angry or aggressive. He makes me feel loved and he makes me laugh. He is very intune to how I think and is encouraging and supportive. He will happily talk or do whatever is arranged all evening every evening. He texts and calls during the day and (to the very best of my knowledge) has always been where he is supposed to be. On the rare occasions I think he has lied to me it has been shocking because it has seemed so out of character.
I am absolutely stuck.
I am working on detachment. No more cash handouts and I leave him to do much more for himself. I am also working on doing more for me. I waited for a backlash that didn't come. I think I was expecting him to turn into some type of monster that would justify me ending it. It didn't happen. We spent tonight laughing as we scripted an imaginary sitcom and it truly wasn't much different from an evening we would have spent 3 years ago. Yes he was drinking and eventually drunk and pouring himself into bed.
I understand about it not being "authentic" when it is based around alcohol. I know it won't always be like this but right now I still feel loved ( I type that then I think do respect and love go hand in hand ? If he respected me would we be at this point? If I respected myself?)
I'm stuck.
Maybe like the alcoholic who knows they should stop and kind of wants to stop but just isn't ready to stop.
Someone said to me at AlAnon on Friday that if I worked the programme I would know when it was time to make a decision and I would make the right decision when the time came. Does that mean I'm allowed to tread water for now ? Does that mean I'm allowed to not feel bad about not leaving? What if I spend another three years like this?
I'm stuck
Do you know what I do know ? I know that I am powerless against alcohol.
Lists and lists in my head. Pros and cons. Reasons to go and reasons to stay.
He drinks too much. He drinks more than he did last year. He has no "real" intention of finding recovery. He is an alcoholic and alcoholism is progressive.
It feels like his need for beer is greater than his need for me. He is drunk every night and at some point every evening I "lose" him to alcohol when that veil drops. My hopes and dreams and plans for the future get smaller and smaller. He would be content to live almost in poverty if he had access to beer. He can quack with the best of them. I deserve more than this from a relationship and I don't choose to watch him slowly kill himself.
I love him. He is kind and thoughtful towards me. He has never been angry or aggressive. He makes me feel loved and he makes me laugh. He is very intune to how I think and is encouraging and supportive. He will happily talk or do whatever is arranged all evening every evening. He texts and calls during the day and (to the very best of my knowledge) has always been where he is supposed to be. On the rare occasions I think he has lied to me it has been shocking because it has seemed so out of character.
I am absolutely stuck.
I am working on detachment. No more cash handouts and I leave him to do much more for himself. I am also working on doing more for me. I waited for a backlash that didn't come. I think I was expecting him to turn into some type of monster that would justify me ending it. It didn't happen. We spent tonight laughing as we scripted an imaginary sitcom and it truly wasn't much different from an evening we would have spent 3 years ago. Yes he was drinking and eventually drunk and pouring himself into bed.
I understand about it not being "authentic" when it is based around alcohol. I know it won't always be like this but right now I still feel loved ( I type that then I think do respect and love go hand in hand ? If he respected me would we be at this point? If I respected myself?)
I'm stuck.
Maybe like the alcoholic who knows they should stop and kind of wants to stop but just isn't ready to stop.
Someone said to me at AlAnon on Friday that if I worked the programme I would know when it was time to make a decision and I would make the right decision when the time came. Does that mean I'm allowed to tread water for now ? Does that mean I'm allowed to not feel bad about not leaving? What if I spend another three years like this?
I'm stuck
Do you know what I do know ? I know that I am powerless against alcohol.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
You are absolutely allowed to tread water, my friend!
You can play What If until the cows come home. When you are ready to Act, you will not be playing What If anymore. And when I say Act, I don't necessarily mean Leave. It might mean Decide to Stay. We don't know yet, and it is okay.
Part of taking care of ourselves is allowing ourselves to follow our own timelines. Yes, you may have regrets in the future; I do. But there isn't any way to guarantee you won't. So please at least give yourself the gift of being okay with your decision-making process. As long as you are being honest with yourself about your situation, you will be all right.
You can play What If until the cows come home. When you are ready to Act, you will not be playing What If anymore. And when I say Act, I don't necessarily mean Leave. It might mean Decide to Stay. We don't know yet, and it is okay.
Part of taking care of ourselves is allowing ourselves to follow our own timelines. Yes, you may have regrets in the future; I do. But there isn't any way to guarantee you won't. So please at least give yourself the gift of being okay with your decision-making process. As long as you are being honest with yourself about your situation, you will be all right.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
jessicajoe--nobody is going to "push" or "make" you do something against your own will. There are no police. To go or stay comes from inside yourself, ultimately. You are influenced by information from the outside (pro or con) in accordance to how you process that information within yourself.
As you are weighing the pros and cons---I will ad on piece of reasoning to your data. Since he appears to not be ready to embrace a recovery program for himself, and alcoholism is progressive--this is likely to be as good as it gets. This brings a big question--do you want to be happy into the future of your life? Can you be happy living with active alcoholism?
It is a tough reality of life that we don't always get to keep the ones we love. We don't necessarily stop loving them--but, we don't always get to keep them by our sides. We get to love--but don't always get to keep.
Another tough reality that I would point out is that with addictions, we can block our loved ones from the motivation to help themselves--we get in their way. For sure, the man isn't happy if he is "pouring himself into bed every night" and he is unable to provide for himself to the best of his ability. (unused potential).
If you are unhappy at this minute--and, he is unhappy--it would appear that both of you are sucked into the vortex of this disease and are doing the "dance", together.
It is repeated over and over by those who have sought authentic recovery that the couples who seem to make it--who heal and grow in happiness--are the ones who EACH embark on a strong program for recovery. Those whose life is no longer organized and lived around alcoholism as the main priority.
It is, also, a biologic (largely) fact that humans bond--and the bond can be just as powerful or just as painful to break whether it is good for us or harmful to us. The grieving process can be the same.
Jessica, these are thing I would point out to anyone going through what you are experiencing. These are just thoughts of mine that I would ask you to consider in your evaluation process---to consider if they have validity for you. In other words, submitted as food for your thought.
very sincerely,
dandylion
As you are weighing the pros and cons---I will ad on piece of reasoning to your data. Since he appears to not be ready to embrace a recovery program for himself, and alcoholism is progressive--this is likely to be as good as it gets. This brings a big question--do you want to be happy into the future of your life? Can you be happy living with active alcoholism?
It is a tough reality of life that we don't always get to keep the ones we love. We don't necessarily stop loving them--but, we don't always get to keep them by our sides. We get to love--but don't always get to keep.
Another tough reality that I would point out is that with addictions, we can block our loved ones from the motivation to help themselves--we get in their way. For sure, the man isn't happy if he is "pouring himself into bed every night" and he is unable to provide for himself to the best of his ability. (unused potential).
If you are unhappy at this minute--and, he is unhappy--it would appear that both of you are sucked into the vortex of this disease and are doing the "dance", together.
It is repeated over and over by those who have sought authentic recovery that the couples who seem to make it--who heal and grow in happiness--are the ones who EACH embark on a strong program for recovery. Those whose life is no longer organized and lived around alcoholism as the main priority.
It is, also, a biologic (largely) fact that humans bond--and the bond can be just as powerful or just as painful to break whether it is good for us or harmful to us. The grieving process can be the same.
Jessica, these are thing I would point out to anyone going through what you are experiencing. These are just thoughts of mine that I would ask you to consider in your evaluation process---to consider if they have validity for you. In other words, submitted as food for your thought.
very sincerely,
dandylion
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,057
If/when you decide you want the cycle to end, you will know. It takes some longer than others, some never leave, and those of us who have been there won't judge you, no matter what you decide. We know how hard it is. It took me five years. I knew the entire time that loving my guy would be a roller coaster ride, but I couldn't let go until I was ready to let go. In that time, I did a lot of learning about myself and about the beast of addiction. When I finally accepted my reality and made the decision to leave, I knew it would be forever. I love the peace I have found, and I love having the real me back, but I had to figure it out on my own.
While you ride the 'round and round and round', jessicajoe, please take care of yourself. Listen to 'you' deep down. Learn about yourself and be selfish. It's okay to do that. Ultimately, like dandylion said, the only way you'll be happy together is if you're each healing individually. You can only do that for yourself, not for him. Heal yourself and good things will follow.
While you ride the 'round and round and round', jessicajoe, please take care of yourself. Listen to 'you' deep down. Learn about yourself and be selfish. It's okay to do that. Ultimately, like dandylion said, the only way you'll be happy together is if you're each healing individually. You can only do that for yourself, not for him. Heal yourself and good things will follow.
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Right here, right now!
Posts: 3,424
Jessicajoe-
I did not know I was ready, until I was ready to make a decision. The moment before I did not know I was ready.
I honestly was NEVER so grateful for therapy and Al-Anon as in that period of time. Mainly that I had found both before I had made that decision....so I had support and love regardless of what I decided. I had a long history of therapy in place, and if I had not I think I would have gone off the deep end.
For me this has been a process of healing, not perfection. This has been about me putting me first (however that looks) and taking care of what is best for me. Only I can know that for myself. Only you can know this for you.
I needed a set of skills to build on before new ones could come into place. I don't think what you are doing is treading water I think you are building new skills.
I did not know I was ready, until I was ready to make a decision. The moment before I did not know I was ready.
I honestly was NEVER so grateful for therapy and Al-Anon as in that period of time. Mainly that I had found both before I had made that decision....so I had support and love regardless of what I decided. I had a long history of therapy in place, and if I had not I think I would have gone off the deep end.
For me this has been a process of healing, not perfection. This has been about me putting me first (however that looks) and taking care of what is best for me. Only I can know that for myself. Only you can know this for you.
I needed a set of skills to build on before new ones could come into place. I don't think what you are doing is treading water I think you are building new skills.
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
Originally Posted by LifeRecovery 
I needed a set of skills to build on before new ones could come into place. I don't think what you are doing is treading water I think you are building new skills.
I am going to be doing some thinking about the difference between "treading water" and "building new skills" for myself as it applies throughout my life, not just in the relationship w/my A.
Thank you, LR.
JJ, wishing you the best in sorting this out. You've gotten some good input already and I'm sure there's more to come.
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 407
Jessica,
I woke this morning with many of the same questions, and was even making a similar list for myself. I came to the conclusion (for today) that my choices and schedule can only be based on what I need. I have friends that think that I need to pull the plug now! (what are you waiting for?...) and others that tell me that things will work out; give it time (skeptical eye roll on my end). But, I am at a point where I feel that I am just marking time (similar to treading water). For me, this is where I need to stay for the time being. I can't let anyone else pressure me into making a decision right now. The more I am pushed, the more difficult it becomes. So, I understand how frustrating this spot is for you. One more day...one more week...one more month, or even year, won't hurt. As many have stated, you will know when it is time; if it is time.
Waiting here with you,
Yurt
I woke this morning with many of the same questions, and was even making a similar list for myself. I came to the conclusion (for today) that my choices and schedule can only be based on what I need. I have friends that think that I need to pull the plug now! (what are you waiting for?...) and others that tell me that things will work out; give it time (skeptical eye roll on my end). But, I am at a point where I feel that I am just marking time (similar to treading water). For me, this is where I need to stay for the time being. I can't let anyone else pressure me into making a decision right now. The more I am pushed, the more difficult it becomes. So, I understand how frustrating this spot is for you. One more day...one more week...one more month, or even year, won't hurt. As many have stated, you will know when it is time; if it is time.
Waiting here with you,
Yurt
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 407
I also agree with others that posted in regards to how to use this time. Work on yourself. Hone those skills that you will in order to become the person that you want to be. Save some money. Sort through your belongings and get rid of extra baggage (this can be figurative). Take some time for yourself.
Yurt
Yurt
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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Jessicajoe and all-
I don't have it with me at the moment, but the reading in The Language of Letting Go I think it was yesterday (about denial), but I know it has been in November so it is only three short readings to look through resonates with this topic. It really spoke to me (and it is on this topic). I will post it later today but I know many of us have it and might be able to post earlier.
I don't have it with me at the moment, but the reading in The Language of Letting Go I think it was yesterday (about denial), but I know it has been in November so it is only three short readings to look through resonates with this topic. It really spoke to me (and it is on this topic). I will post it later today but I know many of us have it and might be able to post earlier.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I think there is no rush to make life decisions. You have to know you are deciding the right thing for YOURSELF. That being said, I think it is important to point something out. Just because you decide to separate from someone does not mean it is going to be ugly. It does not mean they cannot love you anymore or that you don't love them anymore. I am sure I am always going to love my AH. He is my husband and has been for a very long time. He is the father of my children. Is he always going to be the best person for me to live with? Likely not. I have accepted that. I know we will separate eventually but for now I am just living in the moment and have decided not to let my codependency and worry take away from making family moments together. For now he is not drinking. Will that continue? I wish, but I doubt it. At that point I have decided I will leave, but for now I will take all the happy I can get. When and if we do separate I hope we can always have some sort of friendship so that we can coparent our kids successfully and still have happiness in all of our lives.
God Bless.
God Bless.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 182
What thoughtful, helpful, caring responses. Thank you all.
I read permission to take my time but I think deep inside it is delaying the inevitable. I honestly believe that unless something dramatic happens (like him being struck by a sobriety lightning bolt) this will probably be our last holiday season together.
Dandylion I've been thinking all day about whether "giving" him what to all intents and purposes is a "normal" loving relationship actually stands between him and a motivation for recovery. Does it cushion a bottom ? Maybe detachment is not enough. Maybe I would be doing him a favor if I left him to see where his cards fell. Maybe the whole thing would be easier if I could convince myself it was for him as well as me.
I don't know. maybe I'll feel differently next week but that's how I feel today.
I read permission to take my time but I think deep inside it is delaying the inevitable. I honestly believe that unless something dramatic happens (like him being struck by a sobriety lightning bolt) this will probably be our last holiday season together.
Dandylion I've been thinking all day about whether "giving" him what to all intents and purposes is a "normal" loving relationship actually stands between him and a motivation for recovery. Does it cushion a bottom ? Maybe detachment is not enough. Maybe I would be doing him a favor if I left him to see where his cards fell. Maybe the whole thing would be easier if I could convince myself it was for him as well as me.
I don't know. maybe I'll feel differently next week but that's how I feel today.
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wisconsin
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Originally Posted by jessicajoe
right now I still feel loved
I absolutely agree that you are on nobody's timetable but your own. Simply asking these questions, and thinking about these things, is part of your process. You are honoring your process and that is what matters.
During our last big blowup before he left town last summer for work, my AH shouted at me (in response to my eleventy billionth expression of frustration about the state of our relationship and yet another demand that he quit drinking) "What is your hurry? What's the rush?" And my response was "I'm in a lot of emotional pain! This HURTS, and I don't want to hurt anymore." That was a big breakthrough for me. My pain became too great, and it propelled my timetable forward a lot. You are on your own path, and I think you are working a great recovery.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Jessica--I feel safe in saying that if we "cushion" their bottom--then we deny them the consequences of their drinking. It is when the alcoholic life becomes so painful that sobriety looks like a better choice--that an alcoholic will consider recovery.
I have heard in recovery circles the saying: "Don't deny an alcoholic their pain"
Addressing your final question to me: I observe that the rules that most of us have been taught about how to be in a healthy, trusting, nurturing relationship--where there is reciprocity--go out the window with addictions in the relationship.
Hope this helps.....
dandylion
I have heard in recovery circles the saying: "Don't deny an alcoholic their pain"
Addressing your final question to me: I observe that the rules that most of us have been taught about how to be in a healthy, trusting, nurturing relationship--where there is reciprocity--go out the window with addictions in the relationship.
Hope this helps.....
dandylion
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