David Sheff on addiction
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David Sheff on addiction
Has anyone read Clean or Beautiful Boy by David Sheff, the NY Times journalist who has written several best sellers about addiction from a parent's perspective? He believes strongly that addiction is a disease, and should be treated as such by society and the medical profession.
I am torn about reading it, or going to hear him speak. I am frankly not sure if this will help me, or just feed into my tendency to need Answers and Solutions - what I now recognize as part of MY sickness.
My own recovery is at a kind of crossroads, and I suspect this might be backsliding for me. I would love some feedback from you all.
I am torn about reading it, or going to hear him speak. I am frankly not sure if this will help me, or just feed into my tendency to need Answers and Solutions - what I now recognize as part of MY sickness.
My own recovery is at a kind of crossroads, and I suspect this might be backsliding for me. I would love some feedback from you all.
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I guess I don't see how this would be backsliding?
Understanding addiction or further educating yourself doesn't have to translate into action, i.e., you DOING anything about or for someone who is struggling. It may give you a helpful perspective.
But if you think it would trigger you into action that you don't want to be engaged in, perhaps its better you avoid going.
Understanding addiction or further educating yourself doesn't have to translate into action, i.e., you DOING anything about or for someone who is struggling. It may give you a helpful perspective.
But if you think it would trigger you into action that you don't want to be engaged in, perhaps its better you avoid going.
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I don't know anything about this author, but I can understand the backsliding idea.
Sometimes we codies get just as obsessively wrapped up in our therapies as we do in the enabling/codependent dance that we do with our qualifiers. You can continue to chase new thoughts, new methods, new books, etc until all you effectively do is analyze; constantly searching for that one magic sentence that makes everything fall into place for us & provides us will ALL of the answers we've been looking for. Sometimes the best thing we can do is to take a break from recovery.
Sometimes we codies get just as obsessively wrapped up in our therapies as we do in the enabling/codependent dance that we do with our qualifiers. You can continue to chase new thoughts, new methods, new books, etc until all you effectively do is analyze; constantly searching for that one magic sentence that makes everything fall into place for us & provides us will ALL of the answers we've been looking for. Sometimes the best thing we can do is to take a break from recovery.
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From an alcoholic's perspective, "Beautiful Boy" was a wonderful book for me, showing how my addictions harm those around me. The author is a major participant in Alanon and used his talents as a journalist to investigate addiction from both a sociological and scientific perspective and interlaces it all with the pain a parent goes through watching a son succumb to addiction.
It's a powerful book from an Alanon perspective. I think the parts that spoke to me the most as a recovering alcoholic with three years of sobriety was Sheff's ability to make his family detach from his son during his most destructive active addiction and also ensuring that his younger children were shielded from the pain addiction causes.
I haven't read "Clean," nor have I read the books his son has written.
It's a powerful book from an Alanon perspective. I think the parts that spoke to me the most as a recovering alcoholic with three years of sobriety was Sheff's ability to make his family detach from his son during his most destructive active addiction and also ensuring that his younger children were shielded from the pain addiction causes.
I haven't read "Clean," nor have I read the books his son has written.
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I have went through the belief that alcohol abuse is like a medical disease. I have listened to my husband say it is a coping mechanism which I do believe. I have also watched him on other days pick up a few beers just because it's nice outside and would go good with his cigar. Hmmm....on those days I have a hard hard time seeing it as a medical disease. If I get asthma lets say, I did not choose that. I have it because it is a sickness I have. I am not pouring cigarette smoke down my throat to make it worse, I do all i can to manage the symptoms to have a good quality of life. My husband is dumping alcohol down his own throat which he knows will be detremental to his health and our family and marriage. Hmmmm....I guess I personally have a hard time seeing that as a medical disease. I see that as a CHOICE.
I know...let the flogging begin...but I am entitled to my opinion. That being said, I would be willing to hear other perspective on this issue.
I know...let the flogging begin...but I am entitled to my opinion. That being said, I would be willing to hear other perspective on this issue.
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The more I learn about addiction, the more it's clear-cut that it's a physiological/emotional disease. People have an issue with the word "disease," okay, let's use "compulsion" or "obsession." It's a disease the way having OCD is a disease, the way depression is a disease. Unmanaged, it ruins your life. Figuring out how to live with the symptoms and accept treatment without taking a sledgehammer to your life is a lifelong problem.
Sheff believes that it's a combination of a few things that leads the addict to be an addict: Genetic predisposition + trauma + mental illness. A lot of people add youth in there too -- it's unlikely for a person to "find" addiction after 25. Usually by then they're well on their way.
It's comforting to me, to reflect on this information even though I'm divorcing my STBXAH. Alas, our marriage was **** show after **** show. Reading stuff like Sheff's books is like listening to the Al-Anon tapes to me. They're sharing their stories, giving you the before and after, and advocating both for themselves and for the humanity of their qualifiers. It's not about taking action or springing to save someone, it's about meditating on the humanity of someone who really hurt me, which for me is a part of forgiveness and letting go, even though it's so bittersweet.
Sheff believes that it's a combination of a few things that leads the addict to be an addict: Genetic predisposition + trauma + mental illness. A lot of people add youth in there too -- it's unlikely for a person to "find" addiction after 25. Usually by then they're well on their way.
It's comforting to me, to reflect on this information even though I'm divorcing my STBXAH. Alas, our marriage was **** show after **** show. Reading stuff like Sheff's books is like listening to the Al-Anon tapes to me. They're sharing their stories, giving you the before and after, and advocating both for themselves and for the humanity of their qualifiers. It's not about taking action or springing to save someone, it's about meditating on the humanity of someone who really hurt me, which for me is a part of forgiveness and letting go, even though it's so bittersweet.
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My husband is dumping alcohol down his own throat which he knows will be detremental to his health and our family and marriage.
It's a compulsion, a mental illness, a lack of brakes that the rest of us have. It's the inability to face the world without being high, good or bad.
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Thank you all, I am so impressed at your responsiveness, as always.
Found this interview with Sheff on NPR for anyone who is interested:
Interview: David Sheff, Author Of 'Clean' : NPR
I have not cut the cord completely with my A, though I broke up with him last summer and have not seen him for over 3 months.
My boundary is that I will only allow contact (phone) when he is sober, and civil - no blame shifting, or minimizing, or other quacking allowed. I have only had to hang up, or ignore texts, a few times these past few months. I am detached and calm, regardless. Speaking with him does not upset me, or cause emotional turmoil.
I do still love him, and always will.
I think my uncertainty about the book and hearing the author speak in person is that it may prolong my hope for my A's recovery (though all his attempts have been fruitless so far), and keep me from moving on - and I have been on the brink recently of making that final cut to the cord.
Anyway, thank you all for taking the time to read and reply.
Found this interview with Sheff on NPR for anyone who is interested:
Interview: David Sheff, Author Of 'Clean' : NPR
I have not cut the cord completely with my A, though I broke up with him last summer and have not seen him for over 3 months.
My boundary is that I will only allow contact (phone) when he is sober, and civil - no blame shifting, or minimizing, or other quacking allowed. I have only had to hang up, or ignore texts, a few times these past few months. I am detached and calm, regardless. Speaking with him does not upset me, or cause emotional turmoil.
I do still love him, and always will.
I think my uncertainty about the book and hearing the author speak in person is that it may prolong my hope for my A's recovery (though all his attempts have been fruitless so far), and keep me from moving on - and I have been on the brink recently of making that final cut to the cord.
Anyway, thank you all for taking the time to read and reply.
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I read one of the fathers books (and anything else about addiction for awhile). It was my own little addiction for a bit, learning about addiction.
For me it was really normalizing. That was so important to me. I got to see that though my behavior was FAR from healthy, it was all pretty common in the dynamic of living and loving a problem drinker. Just like the alcoholic who has not found recovery I was getting worse, and my behavior more bizarre.
Having someone else share their version of that with me was hard, but also very, very illuminating. I was not alone in this challenge. I needed that.
For me it was really normalizing. That was so important to me. I got to see that though my behavior was FAR from healthy, it was all pretty common in the dynamic of living and loving a problem drinker. Just like the alcoholic who has not found recovery I was getting worse, and my behavior more bizarre.
Having someone else share their version of that with me was hard, but also very, very illuminating. I was not alone in this challenge. I needed that.
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I think alcoholism/addiction is a combination, dependent on the individual.
I think its hard to pin down in precise medical terms or consensus.
It's hard to believe its solely a disease like cancer, where a person doesn't have a choice on getting it. One can't be an alcoholic if they never drank in the first place. Even though they may be predispositioned to be an addict, the introduction and exposure is completely voluntary.
Like Someone here posted earlier: its one thing to feel for someone who is suffering from cancer. It's a whole lot different when they go to the store to buy more cancer.
On the other hand, what the constant abuse does to someone is a compelling argument for it being a disease. Mothers forsaking their children for the drink/fix( like my AW), husbands forsaking their marriage for the same, etc.
Still, to me, the only thing that stops the disease talk is that every person who professes to be in recovery had made a choice to do so. While I won't ever discount the struggles each faces in their sobriety, it was still came down to a decision.
I'm sure if we ask anyone who's ever gone through chemo that the cancer could be arrested if only the patient would stop ingesting a particular substance, they would happily do so.
I also think the relationship of the person giving the prognosis has a impact. Maybe its easier to not blame the addicted child and call it a disease, but calling it a choice if a spouse/parnter disappoints you.
Guess I'm trying to understand it just like everyone else here...
In His Love, Spinner
I think its hard to pin down in precise medical terms or consensus.
It's hard to believe its solely a disease like cancer, where a person doesn't have a choice on getting it. One can't be an alcoholic if they never drank in the first place. Even though they may be predispositioned to be an addict, the introduction and exposure is completely voluntary.
Like Someone here posted earlier: its one thing to feel for someone who is suffering from cancer. It's a whole lot different when they go to the store to buy more cancer.
On the other hand, what the constant abuse does to someone is a compelling argument for it being a disease. Mothers forsaking their children for the drink/fix( like my AW), husbands forsaking their marriage for the same, etc.
Still, to me, the only thing that stops the disease talk is that every person who professes to be in recovery had made a choice to do so. While I won't ever discount the struggles each faces in their sobriety, it was still came down to a decision.
I'm sure if we ask anyone who's ever gone through chemo that the cancer could be arrested if only the patient would stop ingesting a particular substance, they would happily do so.
I also think the relationship of the person giving the prognosis has a impact. Maybe its easier to not blame the addicted child and call it a disease, but calling it a choice if a spouse/parnter disappoints you.
Guess I'm trying to understand it just like everyone else here...
In His Love, Spinner
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