Update
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Update
Well, after over a week of silence, pouting and cold shoulder, my AH is talking again. I knew he would. I guess he mistakes my being cordial to him as a sign Ill give in again before long to that "just one beer". NOT!!!!!!!!!!!! I told him again a few nights ago (he started his whining-"I dont have a life-blah,blah)" how it was. I said "I love you and want us to be together until we die of old age. But for that to happen, you must stay sober from now on. not for a week ,or month or two or even a few years-but from now on. Period. Or you must go. It is YOUR choice. Me or the alcohol. I will NOT allow myself to be put thru this he** again for anyone!" And Im going to stick to my word. Keep the supportive words coming! If he chooses the alcohol and chooses to leave, then I'll know which one he truly loves most. And there wont be any doubt I'll be MUCH better off with OUT him! Thanks everyone!!
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Oh and I forgot to tell you how "nice" he is when he is stone-cold sober. Last night he jumped on me for not getting the lid on the milk container correctly. I apologized and told him he knows i cant see well to start with. And I cant, even with glasses. He proceeded to tell me that if I had a brain at all, it would be the size of a pea and it wasnt my eye sight that was bad, it was my brain. He said I just didnt understand the smallest things like the concept of closing a milk container. Then he started bad-mouthing my cousin who is mentally challenged. That didnt work too well with me. He is an a**hole drunk or sober. But sober, at least I know somewhat of what Im dealing with. He needs to go whether he is drunk or sober. And Ive known this for a long time. I guess Ive hit the "fed-up" button.
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If you have decided he has to go, no matter what, drunk or sober, then why are you telling him that you want to grow old with him, but for that to happen he has to not drink? I'm serious. If you don't want to be with the man, leave. I don't understand why you are putting conditions on his staying. It sounds as if you are sure he is going to drink again, and you're saying you don't want him anyway. So why are you going through this exercise?
It kind of sounds as if you want to make it his "fault" so you can feel OK about leaving. You have the right to leave if you are unhappy in the relationship.
It kind of sounds as if you want to make it his "fault" so you can feel OK about leaving. You have the right to leave if you are unhappy in the relationship.
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I am all too familiar with your ultimatum: me or the bottle. Alcoholics can't even make that choice. Their brain has been hijacked, what do they know? But your brain is totally sober. That makes you the rational one. And the one with the choices. I am right there with you, rooting for us both.
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Originally Posted by LexieCat 
If you have decided he has to go, no matter what, drunk or sober, then why are you telling him that you want to grow old with him, but for that to happen he has to not drink? I'm serious. If you don't want to be with the man, leave. I don't understand why you are putting conditions on his staying. It sounds as if you are sure he is going to drink again, and you're saying you don't want him anyway. So why are you going through this exercise?
It kind of sounds as if you want to make it his "fault" so you can feel OK about leaving. You have the right to leave if you are unhappy in the relationship.
It kind of sounds as if you want to make it his "fault" so you can feel OK about leaving. You have the right to leave if you are unhappy in the relationship.
My hope is that it would stem from a desire to be clear in voicing my boundaries, my desires, and my intent in an open and honest manner, prior to taking a drastic life-altering step, rather than a backhanded way to assign blame. That could be self-deluding, self-serving claptrap, but I think I would feel compelled to have this very conversation if I were ready to end the relationship. By the time I got there, I might be pessimistic, and maybe my motives would not be altogether pure, maybe my hope that it would result in change would be slim, but it might just come from that place of hope.
Weak sauce, I know...thanks for a thought-provoking post.
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I'm glad you're setting boundaries.
However - it sounds a bit like a case of "what do you get if you sober up a drunk horse thief?" (Answer: a sober horse thief.)
He's disrespectful and verbally abusive to you sober. That doesn't automatically change because he doesn't drink.
Is he working a program, going to AA, or is he simply not drinking right now?
Oh and this, too: be careful that you not become his prison guard. If he quits drinking simply because you tell him to, then he's seeing you as the evil parent that he can be mad at and rebel against. Unless he wants this for himself, with or without you, it won't last.
However - it sounds a bit like a case of "what do you get if you sober up a drunk horse thief?" (Answer: a sober horse thief.)
He's disrespectful and verbally abusive to you sober. That doesn't automatically change because he doesn't drink.
Is he working a program, going to AA, or is he simply not drinking right now?
Oh and this, too: be careful that you not become his prison guard. If he quits drinking simply because you tell him to, then he's seeing you as the evil parent that he can be mad at and rebel against. Unless he wants this for himself, with or without you, it won't last.
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Originally Posted by jmartin
This is a fair question Lexie, but I think it is also fair for the OP to make sure that everyone involved knows exactly what is at stake prior to such a decision being made. It is true that none of us is perfect, and if/when this conversation takes place between my AW and myself, I would hope that it would not be for the reason you offer.
My hope is that it would stem from a desire to be clear in voicing my boundaries, my desires, and my intent in an open and honest manner, prior to taking a drastic life-altering step, rather than a backhanded way to assign blame. That could be self-deluding, self-serving claptrap, but I think I would feel compelled to have this very conversation if I were ready to end the relationship. By the time I got there, I might be pessimistic, and maybe my motives would not be altogether pure, maybe my hope that it would result in change would be slim, but it might just come from that place of hope.
Weak sauce, I know...thanks for a thought-provoking post.
My hope is that it would stem from a desire to be clear in voicing my boundaries, my desires, and my intent in an open and honest manner, prior to taking a drastic life-altering step, rather than a backhanded way to assign blame. That could be self-deluding, self-serving claptrap, but I think I would feel compelled to have this very conversation if I were ready to end the relationship. By the time I got there, I might be pessimistic, and maybe my motives would not be altogether pure, maybe my hope that it would result in change would be slim, but it might just come from that place of hope.
Weak sauce, I know...thanks for a thought-provoking post.
Rather, what I was trying to get at was to suggest how necessary it is to put ASIDE the power struggle, and to make a decision that's true to one's own needs and desires. It's sort of a pointless exercise in most cases to present an alcoholic with an ultimatum like that. Someone who is not ready to quit will be unable to do so. It's basically a setup for disappointment.
I question my motives about things all the time. Often I'm not that happy with them, when I take them apart and really examine them.
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Originally Posted by lillamy
I'm glad you're setting boundaries.
However - it sounds a bit like a case of "what do you get if you sober up a drunk horse thief?" (Answer: a sober horse thief.)
He's disrespectful and verbally abusive to you sober. That doesn't automatically change because he doesn't drink.
Is he working a program, going to AA, or is he simply not drinking right now?
Oh and this, too: be careful that you not become his prison guard. If he quits drinking simply because you tell him to, then he's seeing you as the evil parent that he can be mad at and rebel against. Unless he wants this for himself, with or without you, it won't last.
However - it sounds a bit like a case of "what do you get if you sober up a drunk horse thief?" (Answer: a sober horse thief.)
He's disrespectful and verbally abusive to you sober. That doesn't automatically change because he doesn't drink.
Is he working a program, going to AA, or is he simply not drinking right now?
Oh and this, too: be careful that you not become his prison guard. If he quits drinking simply because you tell him to, then he's seeing you as the evil parent that he can be mad at and rebel against. Unless he wants this for himself, with or without you, it won't last.
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Originally Posted by LexieCat
My post wasn't intended to be critical--trust me, I know how difficult it is to make such a decision!
Rather, what I was trying to get at was to suggest how necessary it is to put ASIDE the power struggle, and to make a decision that's true to one's own needs and desires. It's sort of a pointless exercise in most cases to present an alcoholic with an ultimatum like that. Someone who is not ready to quit will be unable to do so. It's basically a setup for disappointment.
I question my motives about things all the time. Often I'm not that happy with them, when I take them apart and really examine them.
Rather, what I was trying to get at was to suggest how necessary it is to put ASIDE the power struggle, and to make a decision that's true to one's own needs and desires. It's sort of a pointless exercise in most cases to present an alcoholic with an ultimatum like that. Someone who is not ready to quit will be unable to do so. It's basically a setup for disappointment.
I question my motives about things all the time. Often I'm not that happy with them, when I take them apart and really examine them.
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Join Date: Jun 2013
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I think what LexieCat was also trying to say is, by issuing the ultimatum you become the prison guard, parent, whatever and it just DOES NOT work for alcoholics despite your willingness to see it 100% through (which is trying to cure/control and a very codie like thing to say).
It's not your battle, don't make it yours.
Once again going back to what Lexie picked up on. Sounds like you are done and you have your reasons (which you are entitled to!). Time to step up and leave vs waiting till he fails and using that as the excuse.
I cant and wont go through the battle of his alcoholism again.
it is life and death battle for me. literally. mine. im too sick to live this way and if i wasnt sick, i dont have to. no one does. he doesnt ever have to quit if he chooses not to. and my money is on he never will. but he cant do it here.
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Bobbysocks,
I'm wondering if there is even a point in giving him an ultimatum. If you know he will choose booze, why even put yourself through it? I wish I had never done it. I wish I had known then what I know now, and that I had never even given him the chance to choose some effing substance over me.
Why not just tell him it's over because of his drinking, period? Then leave without having to endure the pain of coming in second to alcohol.
In the remote possibility that he will stop drinking in order to keep you, he can still do that. It's not like by not giving him the ultimatum you are robbing him of his right to get sober.
I'm glad you are commited to change. You sound strong and determined!
I'm wondering if there is even a point in giving him an ultimatum. If you know he will choose booze, why even put yourself through it? I wish I had never done it. I wish I had known then what I know now, and that I had never even given him the chance to choose some effing substance over me.
Why not just tell him it's over because of his drinking, period? Then leave without having to endure the pain of coming in second to alcohol.
In the remote possibility that he will stop drinking in order to keep you, he can still do that. It's not like by not giving him the ultimatum you are robbing him of his right to get sober.
I'm glad you are commited to change. You sound strong and determined!
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Originally Posted by bobbysocks
Oh and I forgot to tell you how "nice" he is when he is stone-cold sober. Last night he jumped on me for not getting the lid on the milk container correctly. I apologized and told him he knows i cant see well to start with. And I cant, even with glasses. He proceeded to tell me that if I had a brain at all, it would be the size of a pea and it wasnt my eye sight that was bad, it was my brain. He said I just didnt understand the smallest things like the concept of closing a milk container. Then he started bad-mouthing my cousin who is mentally challenged. That didnt work too well with me. He is an a**hole drunk or sober. But sober, at least I know somewhat of what Im dealing with. He needs to go whether he is drunk or sober. And Ive known this for a long time. I guess Ive hit the "fed-up" button.
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Yes, Zen and DoS both get at what I was trying to say. If you are ready to leave, but still feel like you have to draw this line in the sand and wait for him to cross it, you are just putting yourself through unneeded misery. This isn't like an employment situation where you might be required to give an employee a "last chance" before firing them. You've been with him for a long time, and he knows how you feel about his drinking, but he has no desire to quit. He treats you like crap. Those are reasons enough to leave.
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