I don't want to be an accomplice
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Join Date: Jan 2013
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Originally Posted by ScarlettOHara 
If you can't bring yourself to reporting him for fear of damaging your relationship with him, is there a way you can report the violation anonymously?
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 85
I know it may seem harsh the comments and responses you have received but people are sharing from a place of experience. I have learnt so much here. If you haven't already read up on some of the info on the site here and in the stickies at the top of the thread page about enabling and codependency and behaviours that we all as friends and family of alcoholics are capable of try to.
Please don't believe that your brother will be capable of a reasoned and honest conversation with you now because he did not drink for 4.5 months, that is not he same as recovery. You will not talk him round to doing the right thing but if you and your family set boundaries for behaviour you will or will not accept you may then see a change through your actions. It sounds like he is not having to face the full fall out of his behaviour because he has love and support from his family and I am only going on what you have posted and I am not suggesting you remove your love but you can detach. I am still learning how to do that and it is hard and feels wrong sometimes but the disease causes so much damage and not being drunk for a period of time in no way means he is clear of the disease and he is clearly still thinking like a drunk blaming everyone else and putting others in harms way including you and your mother now.
I wish you strength and I can highly recommend alanon meetings for helping you learn and come to terms with what you are facing. You sound like a good and caring brother and son. Best wishes.
Please don't believe that your brother will be capable of a reasoned and honest conversation with you now because he did not drink for 4.5 months, that is not he same as recovery. You will not talk him round to doing the right thing but if you and your family set boundaries for behaviour you will or will not accept you may then see a change through your actions. It sounds like he is not having to face the full fall out of his behaviour because he has love and support from his family and I am only going on what you have posted and I am not suggesting you remove your love but you can detach. I am still learning how to do that and it is hard and feels wrong sometimes but the disease causes so much damage and not being drunk for a period of time in no way means he is clear of the disease and he is clearly still thinking like a drunk blaming everyone else and putting others in harms way including you and your mother now.
I wish you strength and I can highly recommend alanon meetings for helping you learn and come to terms with what you are facing. You sound like a good and caring brother and son. Best wishes.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Legally, you are probably not liable for his conduct just because you know about it. If you assisted him in doing it, or in concealing it, that's a different story.
Whether you have an ethical/moral duty to report him is a different issue. It sounds as if your mind is made up on that point, but consider this. You see him dying soon. You see him drinking and driving once his sentence is complete, thereby endangering others. He's gotten a huge break on his sentence, but to him this whole process is a joke. In typical alcoholic fashion, the rules do not apply to him. (I'm a sober alcoholic, and it's true.) You could anonymously report the violation--the program could then check whether he is where he is supposed to be.
Alternatively, you and the family can refuse to enable his behavior. It's your mom's house--what if she--or you, with her permission--were to tell him he isn't welcome at her house when his sentence requires him to be at work?
Incidentally, you and your family could check out Al-Anon. It saved my sanity during two relationships with alcoholics.
Whether you have an ethical/moral duty to report him is a different issue. It sounds as if your mind is made up on that point, but consider this. You see him dying soon. You see him drinking and driving once his sentence is complete, thereby endangering others. He's gotten a huge break on his sentence, but to him this whole process is a joke. In typical alcoholic fashion, the rules do not apply to him. (I'm a sober alcoholic, and it's true.) You could anonymously report the violation--the program could then check whether he is where he is supposed to be.
Alternatively, you and the family can refuse to enable his behavior. It's your mom's house--what if she--or you, with her permission--were to tell him he isn't welcome at her house when his sentence requires him to be at work?
Incidentally, you and your family could check out Al-Anon. It saved my sanity during two relationships with alcoholics.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Dear Bro, each person has to make their decision based on their own conscience and own morality---and each circumstance is scenario dependent.
Certainly, you (and, I presume your mother) can make him very aware of how you feel about what he is doing. You can ask him not to come anymore. You can even lock the doors.
He doesn't sound like he is close to wanting recovery, yet. If he isn't ready--more jail
time isn't going to change that. Nothing is going to change that until he reaches his own bottom. It takes some people an incredible amount of consequences to reach their bottom--if they ever do.
Bro, you, and nobody else have to live with your own decisions.
We have a saying: Take what you need and leave the rest.
very respectfully, dandylion
Certainly, you (and, I presume your mother) can make him very aware of how you feel about what he is doing. You can ask him not to come anymore. You can even lock the doors.
He doesn't sound like he is close to wanting recovery, yet. If he isn't ready--more jail
time isn't going to change that. Nothing is going to change that until he reaches his own bottom. It takes some people an incredible amount of consequences to reach their bottom--if they ever do.
Bro, you, and nobody else have to live with your own decisions.
We have a saying: Take what you need and leave the rest.
very respectfully, dandylion
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by LexieCat
Alternatively, you and the family can refuse to enable his behavior. It's your mom's house--what if she--or you, with her permission--were to tell him he isn't welcome at her house when his sentence requires him to be at work?
Incidentally, you and your family could check out Al-Anon. It saved my sanity during two relationships with alcoholics.
I'm very unhappy that the court system has given him so much rope to hang himself with, when his history has shown he will do just that. His boss has written letters that allow him to have permission to work weekends. I can't understand why it took them well over a year to sentence him for each of his dui, and the distance between the violation and the penance is so long that he doesn't even connect the two. It just allowed him to be on the street driving drunk for a long time before he faced any consequence.
I will think about trying Al-anon again, I know it helps people, I felt I was sufficiently detached until posting here today.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
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You don't have to get into how "pissed" you are when you talk to him. You can simply say that because he is supposed to be at work, you will not permit him to be at the house. You can also say that if he enters without permission, you will consider it trespassing and will call the police. Make sure your mom is on board with this, though. If she says it's OK, you don't have a leg to stand on, and your only option then is either reporting the violation to the police or removing yourself from the house.
Yeah, give Al-Anon another shot. Our reactions to alcoholic behavior can be "cunning, baffling and powerful," the same way alcohol is to the alcoholic.
Yeah, give Al-Anon another shot. Our reactions to alcoholic behavior can be "cunning, baffling and powerful," the same way alcohol is to the alcoholic.
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"... You can also say that if he enters without permission, you will consider it trespassing and will call the police.
I don't think my Mom will accept that, but I will talk to her and tell her about our conversation. His wife threatened calling the police many times, he's not afraid of the police. He's kind of used to the police at this point.
I don't know that I can do that either. But I will confront him and insist he doesn't belong there. I may, after discussing it with my mom, consider ways to make it known to the authorities without inflaming the situation by being the one who officially made the call. I don't mean to be spineless, but I really am having a hard time with this.
I don't think my Mom will accept that, but I will talk to her and tell her about our conversation. His wife threatened calling the police many times, he's not afraid of the police. He's kind of used to the police at this point.
I don't know that I can do that either. But I will confront him and insist he doesn't belong there. I may, after discussing it with my mom, consider ways to make it known to the authorities without inflaming the situation by being the one who officially made the call. I don't mean to be spineless, but I really am having a hard time with this.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
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You wouldn't be calling the police in that situation because of his being off the job, violating the conditions of his sentence. You would be doing it because he disregarded your (very reasonable) refusal of permission to be in the house or on the property. You don't have to allow ANYONE you don't want in your house into your house. And when someone comes in or remains without your permission, you have every right to call the police.
This is called having boundaries. Not allowing someone to walk over you. Standing up for your own rights. It's a big part of not continuing to allow the alcoholic to call the tune while you dance to it.
This is called having boundaries. Not allowing someone to walk over you. Standing up for your own rights. It's a big part of not continuing to allow the alcoholic to call the tune while you dance to it.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
BTW, re his wife threatening to call the police. Did she ever actually do it? Empty threats can be worse than saying nothing at all.
Whether he is "scared" of the police is beside the point. You are simply giving him fair warning that entry will not be tolerated. If he invades your space (or, rather, your mom's space), this is what will happen. But you have to actually be ready to follow through on it.
Whether he is "scared" of the police is beside the point. You are simply giving him fair warning that entry will not be tolerated. If he invades your space (or, rather, your mom's space), this is what will happen. But you have to actually be ready to follow through on it.
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Location: Waterford MI
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I don't mean to be spineless, but I really am having a hard time with this.
Like the rock and a hard place for sure, your mom and her other son with you and your brother .
I am sorry you are going through this bro.
Do whatever you can to take care of yourself.
Your brother is an alcoholic, and he will not see or hear reason.
I am sorry for that too.
Beth
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"You would be doing it because he disregarded your (very reasonable) refusal of permission"
Thanks, I appreciate the distinction.
But it still means I am openly calling the police on my brother. That is a wound that won't heal. His relationship with my sister is almost certainly no longer recoverable. I agree we need to set the boundary, that we can't let him call the shots. But I can't help but believe him knowing I called will destroy our relationship for what is likely the rest of his life. It's not an easy decision.
I don't think my Mom will be able to refuse him entrance. She's been very strong through all of this, but this is her child, even if he is nearly 50.
I think he needs to suffer more than he obviously is, there needs to be a consequence for this. And maybe that's what it takes, to lose our relationship. But I don't think it will phase him, it'll just give him something else to rant and rave about and make me the one who did the wrong Other family will take his side in this instance, regardless of how they feel about what he's done, this would be on me.
If he's picked up by the cops because he's driving somewhere he's not allowed to be driving, then it's his fault. Doesn't that make any sense at all?
Thanks, I appreciate the distinction.
But it still means I am openly calling the police on my brother. That is a wound that won't heal. His relationship with my sister is almost certainly no longer recoverable. I agree we need to set the boundary, that we can't let him call the shots. But I can't help but believe him knowing I called will destroy our relationship for what is likely the rest of his life. It's not an easy decision.
I don't think my Mom will be able to refuse him entrance. She's been very strong through all of this, but this is her child, even if he is nearly 50.
I think he needs to suffer more than he obviously is, there needs to be a consequence for this. And maybe that's what it takes, to lose our relationship. But I don't think it will phase him, it'll just give him something else to rant and rave about and make me the one who did the wrong Other family will take his side in this instance, regardless of how they feel about what he's done, this would be on me.
If he's picked up by the cops because he's driving somewhere he's not allowed to be driving, then it's his fault. Doesn't that make any sense at all?
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
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I've been around hundreds of sober alcoholics. Many of them had rifts with family members due to their behavior while drinking. When they got sober, however, and realized the harm they had done, and did their best to make it right, most of those relationships were healed.
Since your mom goes to Al-Anon, why not suggest she bring this issue up at her meeting? She might get the moral support she needs to refuse to enable this latest bit of self-centered behavior he is engaging in. If she doesn't feel strong enough to personally tell him, or to call the police, she could delegate that authority to you.
And I believe you ARE strong enough to make that call. If someone told you that you were not permitted in their house, would you do it anyway? Even if being told that made you angry? Of course not--you might be PO'd, but you wouldn't barge your way in anyway.
Please think about it. If the relationship is hurt, it will be due to HIS disrespectful actions, not your self-protective ones.
Alcoholics are like tornadoes, blowing wherever they choose, and wreaking damage wherever they go. I have a feeling if you continue to allow him to act in disregard for your boundaries, he will continue to take advantage of all of you and the next time you need to enforce a boundary it may be a bigger deal than calling the police on him for refusing to leave.
Since your mom goes to Al-Anon, why not suggest she bring this issue up at her meeting? She might get the moral support she needs to refuse to enable this latest bit of self-centered behavior he is engaging in. If she doesn't feel strong enough to personally tell him, or to call the police, she could delegate that authority to you.
And I believe you ARE strong enough to make that call. If someone told you that you were not permitted in their house, would you do it anyway? Even if being told that made you angry? Of course not--you might be PO'd, but you wouldn't barge your way in anyway.
Please think about it. If the relationship is hurt, it will be due to HIS disrespectful actions, not your self-protective ones.
Alcoholics are like tornadoes, blowing wherever they choose, and wreaking damage wherever they go. I have a feeling if you continue to allow him to act in disregard for your boundaries, he will continue to take advantage of all of you and the next time you need to enforce a boundary it may be a bigger deal than calling the police on him for refusing to leave.
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Join Date: Sep 2011
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Sorry, but I have heard it from professionals, you are a codependent and just as guilty as he is; until you get help, such as therapy, counseling, or better yet, Alanon you and Mom are fueling his addictive behavior. Don't like being such a hard-@ss but it's true. Get away, turn him away, stop being complicit and condoning; and get some support/help.
Taking care of yourself will be the best investment you've ever made. Good Luck.
Taking care of yourself will be the best investment you've ever made. Good Luck.
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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Bro I'm sorry your in such a bad position..no one ever wants to be put in the position where they have to contemplate whether they are going to call the cops on their bother (or any family member) or not.
I personally would be clear with my brother and say "If you come I will call the police and report that you are not at work and therefore are breaking the rules of your sentence". This way HE has the choice whether to follow the rules or test you and show up anyway. If he shows up, call the police. This way it isn't that you made the choice to turn your brother in, HE made that choice for you by coming anyway even after you were clear with him about what would happen.
Once he decides to come even though he knows what will happen if he does then it is HIM causing a strain your relationship, not you.
As for if you and your mother can get in trouble for not reporting him the answer is yes. While I am not sure the extent of the trouble you can get in, I am in law school and I can assure you that if they want to press charges then they will be able to find a category to fit this in. (just knowing he plans to break the law is one thing, but once he shows up at the house it is more than knowing he might do something, it is witnessing him not doing anything and omission is a crime. You can get in trouble for not acting which is what would happen if you didn't report him)
I hope you are able to find peace with whatever decision you decide to make.
I personally would be clear with my brother and say "If you come I will call the police and report that you are not at work and therefore are breaking the rules of your sentence". This way HE has the choice whether to follow the rules or test you and show up anyway. If he shows up, call the police. This way it isn't that you made the choice to turn your brother in, HE made that choice for you by coming anyway even after you were clear with him about what would happen.
Once he decides to come even though he knows what will happen if he does then it is HIM causing a strain your relationship, not you.
As for if you and your mother can get in trouble for not reporting him the answer is yes. While I am not sure the extent of the trouble you can get in, I am in law school and I can assure you that if they want to press charges then they will be able to find a category to fit this in. (just knowing he plans to break the law is one thing, but once he shows up at the house it is more than knowing he might do something, it is witnessing him not doing anything and omission is a crime. You can get in trouble for not acting which is what would happen if you didn't report him)
I hope you are able to find peace with whatever decision you decide to make.
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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Maybe I'm a little confused here but who's to say you or your mother's name have to be used to "drop a dime" on him?
Where’s the accountability lie with his hours on the weekends? Who’s supervising that and checking to see if he’s actually there?
Where’s the accountability lie with his hours on the weekends? Who’s supervising that and checking to see if he’s actually there?
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he can't or won't hear me.
He's not in recovery! He's NOT ready! He hasn't hit rock bottom and had the dust fly out of his drawers from the impact! Everyone is against him! This is everyones fault but his! He's mad at the cops, the courts, MADD, his wife, sister, brother, mother! His life just sucks because of everyone!
You know what the fellar needs? A mirror so he can see who the real person is who needs to accept the blame. That's what he needs and until he can look himself in the tired face and accept that it was HE who did this to himself...
Your relationship with him will be SQUAT because that my friend is what he is choosing for not only himself but EVERYONE who loves him. He is choosing! You just remember that.
Welcome to the Merry Go Round. The rides only get faster and faster. But no drinks for you. You'll just be the one to clean up the vomit and all the other shi-caca they decide to throw around. You can get off any time you want and say, You know what? I've had enough of YOU ruining this family and I'm not going to put up with it any longer!
Tough Love Bro. They don't call it that because it feels good. It HURTS!
He's not in recovery! He's NOT ready! He hasn't hit rock bottom and had the dust fly out of his drawers from the impact! Everyone is against him! This is everyones fault but his! He's mad at the cops, the courts, MADD, his wife, sister, brother, mother! His life just sucks because of everyone!
You know what the fellar needs? A mirror so he can see who the real person is who needs to accept the blame. That's what he needs and until he can look himself in the tired face and accept that it was HE who did this to himself...
Your relationship with him will be SQUAT because that my friend is what he is choosing for not only himself but EVERYONE who loves him. He is choosing! You just remember that.
Welcome to the Merry Go Round. The rides only get faster and faster. But no drinks for you. You'll just be the one to clean up the vomit and all the other shi-caca they decide to throw around. You can get off any time you want and say, You know what? I've had enough of YOU ruining this family and I'm not going to put up with it any longer!
Tough Love Bro. They don't call it that because it feels good. It HURTS!
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