fruitymarzipan

Im not going to comment on your thread from the perspective of an addict (which I am) but as an RN which I also am. We have seen some scary things in the ER from people who have come off meds after years and subsequently developed addiction problems. Most recently a very tragic case of a loving man & father who had a psychotic break when his wife attempted an intervention. There was cctv footage of this man in the park the day before the incident playing & kissing & cuddling his kids. It was quite literally unbelievable. He has no memory of what he did the next day. Make sure you and your children are safe first and foremost. Lots of prayers and luck xx

redatlanta

A dual diagnosis is common. Its the chicken or the egg, does the underlying mental problem cause self medication or did the alcoholism cause the mental problems?

I personally feel most compassion for these people. I do believe that most know something is wrong - but are misdiagnosed or not diagnosed. They turn to alcohol or other drugs to self medicate.

My husband is BP2 and an alcoholic. He was misdiagnosed as depressed for 10 years and given medication that exacerbated the Bi Polar for the same time. He used to say to me all the time "there is something wrong with me". The frustration of reaching out to the medical community and getting little result had warped him to the point of deciding that NO ONE could help him and that this was the way it was going to be. We found out he was BP almost two years ago by complete accident when he had a hospital stay and they brought in a neuro psychiatrist as they wanted to change his anti depressant because they thought is was causing some issues with his liver. He was diagnosed BP in 10 minutes. 10 MINUTES - no exaggeration. I say diagnosed there is no test for it. There are signs and he fit them but the only way to know was to take the meds and see if they worked.

The difference in my RAH between two years ago and now - Oh my, I can't even describe. He is a completely different person. I see little of the BP now, every once in a while he has trouble with insomnia and that's about all.

I am unsure about how to tell you to proceed - my RAH was willing to get help and we had him evaluated by a psychologist. We also went to his primary care physician. Now I know what I didn't know then which was we were going to the wrong doctor's. WE should have gone to a psychiatrist specializing in mood disorders from the get go.

I agree with you 100% that the mental issues must be addressed before the addiction issues. I am not sure how to tell you to go about accomplishing this I am not sure if your husband is willing to get help for that.

dandylion

Dear Archangel, I understand. In the final analysis, you have to live with yourself.

I'm hoping that he will accept the help, or, at least, a seed will have been planted.

Please continue to post as often as you want---and let us know how things progress, if you can. You are also of help to many others facing this incredibly difficult situation, I am sure.

very sincerely, dandylion

soberlicious

The problem is, continued use of alcohol or drugs will exacerbate preexisting mental issues. To know exactly what one is dealing with in terms of mental illness and to put into place an effective treatment plan, the alcohol use needs to stop completely.

GodsFriend

I can tell you from personal experience that unmedicated I felt "normal". I was a real handful. I could not see my behavior was destructive. In my mind everyone else was worrying about a problem that I didn't think existed.

laurie6781

Being sober these many years now, and myself also being Bi Polar I have seen many come into recovery from starting their drinking as 'self medication' for some other mental illness.

I also know that a good psych Dr will not even attempt to analyze and/or find out the mental illnesses a person might have until they have some sobriety under their belt.

It took longer with me, because I never thought I had any mental illnesses other than addiction, until at 9 years sober and clean I went totally insane and was begging to be locked up in a padded cell in a straight jacket, no I am not joking, true story.

Oh and alcoholism and/or addiction are the only 'diseases' that can mimic other mental illnesses.

My point is, any good rehab does not have to be equipped to handle dual diagnosis, once he is sober and clean the next step can be taken IF HE EVEN ADMITS HE IS READY FOR HELP.

Intervention might help and it might not. It can help if your H is ready to ask for help, otherwise he will either not agree to go or will agree to go to keep you from leaving and it still won't work. Oh rehab, and/or AA or some other program can 'plant a tiny seed' but it is the individual that has to to do the work, that has to WANT to do the work.

All the rehabs, all the 12 step meetings, all the other programs like SMART and AVRT cannot fix the A. Only the A can fix the A. and then only if the A wants to fix the A for themselves, not to keep the wife, not to keep the job, etc but for themselves.

So lets talk about you. What are you doing for you? What are you doing to make your life and your child's life serene and peaceful? This is now about you and your child not him. Giving ultimatums never work. How about instead of saying:

"if you don't go I leave",

with setting your boundary instead:

"I can not live with someone who is in active addiction or early recovery."

It is no longer an ultimatum, it is now your boundary. You may not quite understand this yet, but by stating a boundary rather than an "you do this or else" gives the WHOLE decision up to the A. Gives him back, which btw in his mind he has lost, the choice for his own life. I know, I know he chose to drink, well so did I, but by the time it had become a 'problem' I had lost the power of choice, I NEEDED the alcohol, or so I thought. King Alcohol told me I had to have that next drink and the next and the next, etc Until my personal bottom and that 'moment of clarity' for me.

I believe the same will hold true for your husband, thus an intervention can be used by you to state your personal boundaries and then the rest is up to him. And you do not have to give him a week to decide. You can make it an hour or 24. There is an EXCELLENT FREE Rehab called The Salvation Army. No insurance required. The only requirement is an HONEST DESIRE to want recovery. It is a 6 to 9 month long program, and it has a pretty damn good recovery rate. Probably because each applicant is screened for their 'wanting' the program, over their 'need' for the program.

No matter if you do decide to go ahead with the intervention or y'all do not, we are here for you. We are walking with you 'in spirit' and anytime you are feeling stressed over all the chaos, just picture ALL of us in the room wherever you are. It does help.

Please keep posting and let us know how you are doing, as we do care.

Love and hugs,

NYCDoglvr

I've recently read that most alcoholics have another mental illness as well (most common are depression and bipolar disorder). To deal with the other mental illness he must be sober first, then go to a psychiatrist for help. You have to save your own life and the lives of your children (who aren't being cared for properly); it's a good idea to focus on that.

Archangelesk

I appreciate the distinction you have drawn between an ultimatum and my boundary. If you don't do this, I will do this is about him. Setting my boundary helps me plan what to do for myself, no matter what he does. And not matter what he does, I want him out of our house.

So I think I am going to embrace the phrase below, with the understanding, that for me, the early recovery period is not over without a full psych evaluation and a track record of steady participation in treatment meant to address all of his issues:

"I cannot live with someone who is actively abusing alcohol or in early recovery."

I am saying it out loud to myself right now. I am going to worry about the logistics later.

Archangelesk

You could be quoting my husband. It makes me feel badly for him, on the one hand, because it must feel awful to feel fine and have everyone else say otherwise. But on the other hand, who ignores it when everyone says that things are not okay? I can't fathom it.

Archangelesk

Today I made a timeline of the last 13 years. And the problems were here, at levels that varied year-to-year, for over a decade before there was much drinking at all. He grew up in a dry home, so it was a bit of a culture shift to start having it around the house. The difference in the past year, is an uptick in agitation as well as drinking and a complete refusal to talk about it.

Let me ask you all this - 6 months ago we went to his family's summer cottage with his folks, who do not drink. He was there for 6 weeks, I was in and out. We had 2 nights out during that time where we ordered 1 drink each with dinner. That was the only drinking he did in that time frame (yes, before you ask, I know he did not do so on the sly. At no time did he leave the cottage alone - or much at all, except on foot to the beach with the kids and I packed the van and his suitcase, so I am sure. Not to mention the place is tiny, he would not have been able to hide bottles or his activities). I think while he was there, having his parents, who he loves, and who take a lot of child care pressure from him, was enough to cope with what he otherwise uses alcohol for. So he was able to switch coping mechanisms. And I have seen him do that since, for shorter periods. That being said, although almost nothing will get him to leave the house, if the beer runs out, he will leave for that. But it generally takes him 3 or 4 days, unless he can get someone else to pick it up (I never told him I would not, I just stopped doing it).

Archangelesk

Thank you. This is very helpful to me and there are many perspectives here that I am considering carefully.

Archangelesk

I am so sorry for all those years it took to get to the right diagnosis.

Mine is not ready to get help. He does not believe there is anything wrong with him. He does like to insist that I am the one who is ill. So, although I have to tell you that all my instincts tell me that the mental health issue is first, I feel like I have to borrow from the addiction ways of thinking just to find help to intervene.

Archangelesk

His parents and family will be with me, and stay with me until we are sure this is settled. I admit, I am afraid of something dramatic if we even get him there. And that is a big if. This man taught rock to be stubborn long before he was drinking.

Archangelesk

Thank you for this. I now realize that I enabled him for a very long time. And I have decided to stop. One of the ways I am enforcing this is by being completely honest. I used to omit things with my closest friends. I have stopped doing so, and been unequivocal in stating that I am done with this. I suppose I am trying to tap into something good out of my co-dependent, people pleasing habits, because I would be ashamed of myself if I backslide from here. Detachment is ridiculously hard for me, but I am "practicing my skills." (My 3-year-old told me that today).

BoxinRotz

I tried to plan an intervention with my AH a couple years ago. I had called a treatment facility and was told that when the intervention with loved ones took place, *IF* he flipped (which was possible) I could 302 him because he is now becoming a danger to us/himself. If he was 302'ed, he could leave there and go straight into treatment. If he didn't need 302'ed, it would take up to 10 days for a bed to become available.

Long story short, he acknowledged his problem very quietly and calmly. He stopped drinking for 8 months and then in May of 2012 started lying and that is what tipped me off to him drinking again. He drank from May until December 9th of 2012 and relapsed sometime in February this year. He's been on a vodka bender 4-5 days a week now straight. Reality is, YOU have to stand behind every word you speak to him. If you are going to leave, you best do it.

I told my AH I wasn't going to put up with his ******** and I left with our dogs! It cleared his mind enough to be sober for 2 months. I recently lost my safe haven and he's picked up where he's left off because he knows I have nowhere to go now. Today, he was told he can go to his mother's house if he's going to drink. He went no contact with her because she too is an alcoholic and he says, She drinks! I don't go over because she drinks! I told him he'd fit right in! I don't quite understand why he would go no contact with her because she furnished him with Vodka. He does a damn good job of getting his own! Makes no sense to me! Atleast if he went over there, I could have a break.

As you can see, I'm tired! My point is, if he becomes unglued, 302 him and they can evaluate him and then send him to treatment. Good Luck! Lord knows we all need it here.

Archangelesk

It is crazy that a 302 sounds like a good result, compared to what happens if he just refuses.....

soberlicious

I'm assuming a 302 is like our Baker Act here in FL? That's what it took for me. I was subsequently treated for addiction and clinical depression. I was considered a dual diagnosis. My sister, on the other hand, was also Baker Acted, but it had no impact on her. She continues to drink and have mental problems.

Archangelesk

Yes, a 302 is involutary commitment in my jurisdiction.

I am so glad it helped you, and sorry about your sister.

outonalimb

My exah has been in and out of rehab 4 times. He always relapsed very quickly.
He's also been in and out of psych wards 4 times. His psych admissions were always brought about due to extreme paranoia and audio hallucinations. One time he even thought he was Jesus Christ.

I could never figure out if he was drinking because he was mentally ill or if he was mentally ill because of his drinking. I agree with the 'chicken or the egg' analogy mentioned above.

The psych doctors never diagnosed my exah. They always told me that they could not diagnose him with a mental illness unless and until he had been sober for at least 6 months. They said it was impossible before that time to separate out the symptoms of alcoholism from the symptoms of a possible mental illness.

My exah has been in jail now for a little over 6 months now. I recently had him prosecuted for aggravated stalking because he was stalking and harassing me before he went into jail and again from his jail cell with letters and attempted collect phone calls.

I'm asking the court to imopse mandatory substance abuse and mental health treatment as a condiction of his probation when is is released.

After years of dealing with this however, there is just ONE THING that I know for sure...Nothing I do or say and nothing the ocurt orders will make one bit of difference unless and until my ex wants to get better. It's very likely that he'll get out and start drinking again and the whole hideous cycle will start over again. I have no control over this.

We have a son together. I have learned, thru al anon and this board, that I need to take care of myself and our son and leave my exah completely in God's care. This is HIS illness (or maybe his illnesses). But with both alcoholism and mental health, unless and until the patient has some insight into their need for treatment, there is no chance of recovery. This insight has to come from within. I think they have to get so tired of living the life of insanity and be willing to ask for help (i.e. lose the ego) before they can even begin to recover.

NOt sure if this helps...This has just been my experience. But the whole dual diagnosis thing is so dang confusing sometimes.

Hugs

Archangelesk

Geez, thank you for posting this. I just need to keep reading these things to stay focused.

What do you tell your son? I am so worried about how to protect my boys. I feel like I am botching this up.