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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 8
New Here
Hi there,
Little lost at moment. When I met my husband 7 years ago, he was on his way to rehab for drug/alcohol abuse. Not sure why I got involved - he seemed like a nice guy and I was lonely I guess. He was very strong through his recovery I will give him that. He fought very hard to get clean and he did. He moved in with me, finished his high school, got into college and became a paramedic. We got married shortly before he started college and have since had 2 children.
Besides the initial first year, he has never been an overly nice person. Very irritable and I have always had trouble living up to whatever it is he expects of me. Always had his good moments, we've had a lot of good laughs and good times - but as a whole our marriage has never been good for more then a few days at a time. Just before our 2nd baby arrived, it came to light that he had been drinking from time to time. He assured me he would stop. That was 4 years ago. He isn't drunk all the time. We went through a phase there last year where he would openly have a beer in front of me...1 or 2 on the days he wasn't working. I figured better I can see it, then him hiding it? Course I eventually got sick of watching him drink every single time he was off work so back to hiding it he went. He goes out to the garage to "work" and drinks - sometimes just 1 beer, sometimes more. Superbowl Sunday he got really really drunk after which he came to me and admitted he had a problem. He said he would look into going to rehab again - ended up just getting a counsellor who he has been to see 3 times I believe. His last 2 appts were cancelled from no fault of his own, and since then there have been 2 instances of drinking - tonight was the 2nd one that I'm aware of.
He has been bugging and bugging for me to arrange time alone together. So I arranged a babysitter, who showed up promptly at 5. By 5:30, he was still tinkering around the garage. Finally got ready to go and of course we started arguing, denied being drunk even though I could tell and smell it. After a very quiet dinner, we came home and he promptly passed out on the couch while I put the kids to bed - got up went to bed, claiming to be tired from his job. Searched the garage and found 4 empty beer bottles.
I just don't know what I'm suppose to do. Al-anon is certainly an option I guess, although trying to make appts when they are at night and you have kids - one who was recently diagnosed with epilepsy and has sleep seizures - makes it rather difficult. I am also not a religious or spiritual person so I don't know that I would find their belief system helpful. Just so tired of the lies, drinking, fighting - but when your lives are so firmly intertwined with the children and their needs what do you do? Don't want to be here when he wakes up tomorrow, grumpy and irritable. Forgot I still need to be the Easter Bunny tonight, guess she is working solo tonight!
Thanks for listening
KM
Little lost at moment. When I met my husband 7 years ago, he was on his way to rehab for drug/alcohol abuse. Not sure why I got involved - he seemed like a nice guy and I was lonely I guess. He was very strong through his recovery I will give him that. He fought very hard to get clean and he did. He moved in with me, finished his high school, got into college and became a paramedic. We got married shortly before he started college and have since had 2 children.
Besides the initial first year, he has never been an overly nice person. Very irritable and I have always had trouble living up to whatever it is he expects of me. Always had his good moments, we've had a lot of good laughs and good times - but as a whole our marriage has never been good for more then a few days at a time. Just before our 2nd baby arrived, it came to light that he had been drinking from time to time. He assured me he would stop. That was 4 years ago. He isn't drunk all the time. We went through a phase there last year where he would openly have a beer in front of me...1 or 2 on the days he wasn't working. I figured better I can see it, then him hiding it? Course I eventually got sick of watching him drink every single time he was off work so back to hiding it he went. He goes out to the garage to "work" and drinks - sometimes just 1 beer, sometimes more. Superbowl Sunday he got really really drunk after which he came to me and admitted he had a problem. He said he would look into going to rehab again - ended up just getting a counsellor who he has been to see 3 times I believe. His last 2 appts were cancelled from no fault of his own, and since then there have been 2 instances of drinking - tonight was the 2nd one that I'm aware of.
He has been bugging and bugging for me to arrange time alone together. So I arranged a babysitter, who showed up promptly at 5. By 5:30, he was still tinkering around the garage. Finally got ready to go and of course we started arguing, denied being drunk even though I could tell and smell it. After a very quiet dinner, we came home and he promptly passed out on the couch while I put the kids to bed - got up went to bed, claiming to be tired from his job. Searched the garage and found 4 empty beer bottles.
I just don't know what I'm suppose to do. Al-anon is certainly an option I guess, although trying to make appts when they are at night and you have kids - one who was recently diagnosed with epilepsy and has sleep seizures - makes it rather difficult. I am also not a religious or spiritual person so I don't know that I would find their belief system helpful. Just so tired of the lies, drinking, fighting - but when your lives are so firmly intertwined with the children and their needs what do you do? Don't want to be here when he wakes up tomorrow, grumpy and irritable. Forgot I still need to be the Easter Bunny tonight, guess she is working solo tonight!
Thanks for listening
KM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: new moon road
Posts: 1,545
Welcome to the SR forum. I hope you will find much support here, for you surely are in a lot of pain and confusion, which is inevitable in the alcoholic home.
We have articles here on addiction and codependency which can be found through the "Sticky" links on the opening page here and those which are also on the F&F of Substance Abusers forum. Education matters when it comes to addiction because loved ones of alcoholics and drug addicts always try in some way to control the addiction, and that is impossible. We either talk at the addict--lecture, threaten, beg, debate--or we try in some way to corner the behavior--we pour out the booze, we stay home to "watch" the alcoholic so he "can't" drink, we avoid outside activities which involve alcohol, we stop inviting people to the home who like to bring wine and beer, we stop going on trips to see the family because we're afraid he'll drink himself to death or the burn the house down while we're gone. But when we get really educated about addiction, we give all that up. Because it just won't work.
It is true, really, it is true: the alcoholic will not stop drinking until he is ready. And the circumstances, the consequences, the crises in his life which could lead to sobriety are completely out of our hands. We are powerless over alcoholics. They will drink for years, decades. They will drink when their livers are dissolving and their esophagus is cancerous. They will drink when the kids are in the back seat of the car they're driving. They will drink before they get behind the controls of the plane they're flying. They will drink right before that big interview. They have lost control. They have lost the ability to choose how much they will drink, when they will drink. They usually think they have it under control. But alcohol controls them and it controls their spouses, too.
To educate yourself about this loss of control, you can read chapters 2 and 3 in the AA Big Book, which is at Big Book Online Fourth Edition. To find some support you can go to Al-Anon and ignore anything at the meeting which does not suit you and use what does. (And there are excellent free brochures there which do not mince words about life with the alcoholic). "Getting Them Sober" by Toby Rice Drews is a book which will give you some backbone and flush out all the alcoholic tactics to keep you in line.
But really, this is your situation: you are married to an active alcoholic. Drunk or sober, he will be an alcoholic all his life. His addiction will influence, while he is active, every thought, every choice, every emotion, every decision he makes every moment of every day. If he is sober, his addiction will still be a chronic condition which requires daily management.
And as his wife, it just won't work well for you to wait and see what he is going to do next. It hurts you too much, it creates deep anxiety and dread, and you become severely codependent because you stop living your life while you are monitoring his.
You'll have to get some help there. SR can support you, but you also need face to face help. A counselor, a meeting, however you find it (both are usually the best route). But to do nothing and just watch, it will drain away all you have. You will be but a wisp of your former self. You have to get help.
We have articles here on addiction and codependency which can be found through the "Sticky" links on the opening page here and those which are also on the F&F of Substance Abusers forum. Education matters when it comes to addiction because loved ones of alcoholics and drug addicts always try in some way to control the addiction, and that is impossible. We either talk at the addict--lecture, threaten, beg, debate--or we try in some way to corner the behavior--we pour out the booze, we stay home to "watch" the alcoholic so he "can't" drink, we avoid outside activities which involve alcohol, we stop inviting people to the home who like to bring wine and beer, we stop going on trips to see the family because we're afraid he'll drink himself to death or the burn the house down while we're gone. But when we get really educated about addiction, we give all that up. Because it just won't work.
It is true, really, it is true: the alcoholic will not stop drinking until he is ready. And the circumstances, the consequences, the crises in his life which could lead to sobriety are completely out of our hands. We are powerless over alcoholics. They will drink for years, decades. They will drink when their livers are dissolving and their esophagus is cancerous. They will drink when the kids are in the back seat of the car they're driving. They will drink before they get behind the controls of the plane they're flying. They will drink right before that big interview. They have lost control. They have lost the ability to choose how much they will drink, when they will drink. They usually think they have it under control. But alcohol controls them and it controls their spouses, too.
To educate yourself about this loss of control, you can read chapters 2 and 3 in the AA Big Book, which is at Big Book Online Fourth Edition. To find some support you can go to Al-Anon and ignore anything at the meeting which does not suit you and use what does. (And there are excellent free brochures there which do not mince words about life with the alcoholic). "Getting Them Sober" by Toby Rice Drews is a book which will give you some backbone and flush out all the alcoholic tactics to keep you in line.
But really, this is your situation: you are married to an active alcoholic. Drunk or sober, he will be an alcoholic all his life. His addiction will influence, while he is active, every thought, every choice, every emotion, every decision he makes every moment of every day. If he is sober, his addiction will still be a chronic condition which requires daily management.
And as his wife, it just won't work well for you to wait and see what he is going to do next. It hurts you too much, it creates deep anxiety and dread, and you become severely codependent because you stop living your life while you are monitoring his.
You'll have to get some help there. SR can support you, but you also need face to face help. A counselor, a meeting, however you find it (both are usually the best route). But to do nothing and just watch, it will drain away all you have. You will be but a wisp of your former self. You have to get help.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
When an alcoholic embraces recovery part of that is also modifying personality traits. I am not saying that every alcoholic that embraces recovery is a model citizen - however, it sounds like your husband partially embraced the process and then stopped. Now he is drinking again and has been for years. They trick themselves into believing they can control it, that they are not alcoholics but social drinkers.
He has admitted a problem but he isn't there as far as doing something about it. He is intermittently getting counseling while still drinking - another A ploy to prolong YOUR tolerance of his drinking. Trust me on this one - I see nothing in what you have written to indicate he really plans on recovering. Next it will be the counselors fault - they aren't good, they cancelled appt's (uh huh), he tried. What do YOU expect when HE is trying - its always everybody else's fault.
Al Anon would be a good place for you and it doesn't matter what your religious or spiritual beliefs. "Take what you want and leave the rest'. There are several agnostics and atheists on here that do go to Al ANON. Is it possible to find a morning meeting? I know I hit the early meetings before work.
Bottom line is you don't have to live like this. Walking on eggshells is a s**t way to live. Life being conducted and controlled by an A is also a s**t way to live. Children growing up in an alcoholic household is a horrible way to grow up. For the protection of your children as well as yourself you need to educate yourself about this disease and you need to work on your co-dependent and enabling behaviors that anchor you to this situation thinking there is not an alternative. There is.
Please also take the time to read in the AcOA forum what happens to kids raised in alcoholic homes. Its not pretty.
This is a great place to be with lots of support. Read and post often we are here for you.
He has admitted a problem but he isn't there as far as doing something about it. He is intermittently getting counseling while still drinking - another A ploy to prolong YOUR tolerance of his drinking. Trust me on this one - I see nothing in what you have written to indicate he really plans on recovering. Next it will be the counselors fault - they aren't good, they cancelled appt's (uh huh), he tried. What do YOU expect when HE is trying - its always everybody else's fault.
Al Anon would be a good place for you and it doesn't matter what your religious or spiritual beliefs. "Take what you want and leave the rest'. There are several agnostics and atheists on here that do go to Al ANON. Is it possible to find a morning meeting? I know I hit the early meetings before work.
Bottom line is you don't have to live like this. Walking on eggshells is a s**t way to live. Life being conducted and controlled by an A is also a s**t way to live. Children growing up in an alcoholic household is a horrible way to grow up. For the protection of your children as well as yourself you need to educate yourself about this disease and you need to work on your co-dependent and enabling behaviors that anchor you to this situation thinking there is not an alternative. There is.
Please also take the time to read in the AcOA forum what happens to kids raised in alcoholic homes. Its not pretty.
This is a great place to be with lots of support. Read and post often we are here for you.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Dear hunterdan, I want to second every thing that Englishgarden and redatlanta have said.
It made me so sad when you said that you marriage has not been good more than a few days at a time.***Love is not supposed to hurt this much****
He is not even close to being in recovery mode. The path of recovery involves putting recovery as his first priority in life. It takes lots of effort and co mmittment. Lots of AA meetings, a sponsor and diligently working at all 12 of the steps. Many alcoholics avoid embracing the complete program because they are desperately still trying to preserve what they desire the most---to preserve their ability to drink.
You deserve a better life than this. You will have to take the actions required to get there. You can't depend on him for this. By nature of the disease, his first love is alcohol--not you or the children.
sincerely, dandylion
It made me so sad when you said that you marriage has not been good more than a few days at a time.***Love is not supposed to hurt this much****
He is not even close to being in recovery mode. The path of recovery involves putting recovery as his first priority in life. It takes lots of effort and co mmittment. Lots of AA meetings, a sponsor and diligently working at all 12 of the steps. Many alcoholics avoid embracing the complete program because they are desperately still trying to preserve what they desire the most---to preserve their ability to drink.
You deserve a better life than this. You will have to take the actions required to get there. You can't depend on him for this. By nature of the disease, his first love is alcohol--not you or the children.
sincerely, dandylion
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 8
Thank you for all the responses. Sunday was strained as I expected. He seems to think an apology and stating that he is working on it should be good enough for me to forgive and forget. He really is not a raging alcoholic, however he does certainly rely on it and throughout our relationship other things to cope with stress. His job I think is the only thing saving him from becoming a raging alcoholic mind you. Honestly I think I prefer him drunk as he tends to be nicer when he is. I saw a post on here recently speaking of Jeckyll and Hyde and I thought that was interesting as that his how I refer to him quite often - except for him both are usually sober. Mornings have always been rough, what I wouldn't give to wake up with someone who is easy to get along with. It is really hard to sift through what is normal couple issues and what is brought on by his difficult personality.
I am taking steps to better myself as suggested. Started reading a book on co-dependency and was quite shocked at all the things that related to me and how I have been feeling lately. Tired, bitter, depressed, angry, defensive - thought I was seriously going through early menopause, but maybe there is more to it. Have begun searching out counsellors and will maybe try to get to an al-anon meeting on Thursday if all goes well. Cost of counselling is certainly crazy, not sure how to work that into our monthly budget...one more thing to be bitter about I guess, he gets free counselling and I'm left to stomach paying.
He has of course been awfully kind and caring in the last few days. Maybe I will get a full week of peace in the house.
Thanks again, nice to just have a place to say what I'm actually thinking.
KM
I am taking steps to better myself as suggested. Started reading a book on co-dependency and was quite shocked at all the things that related to me and how I have been feeling lately. Tired, bitter, depressed, angry, defensive - thought I was seriously going through early menopause, but maybe there is more to it. Have begun searching out counsellors and will maybe try to get to an al-anon meeting on Thursday if all goes well. Cost of counselling is certainly crazy, not sure how to work that into our monthly budget...one more thing to be bitter about I guess, he gets free counselling and I'm left to stomach paying.
He has of course been awfully kind and caring in the last few days. Maybe I will get a full week of peace in the house.
Thanks again, nice to just have a place to say what I'm actually thinking.
KM
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 3
Today I joined this site for support and to learn of other people's struggles and how they cope. As they say, hindsight is 20 20. That is what I tell people and it is true, the signs were all there but I didn't see them for what they were. I have learned that I am a rescuer. This is my third marriage and my 2nd marriage to an AH. I have rescued each of my husbands. My current husband was going through a very bitter divorce. He loves his children and didn't want to lose them but knew he would. I helped him fight his battles and helped him with his children. I thought after the divorce and we were married things would be great. Why would he drink more? How could he have gotten fired from his job? I had to pay his child support because he just couldn't get behind. He has a great family, church support, AA support and yet he still drinks. He has been in and out of the hospital and in and out of rehab. I finally learned last summer from one Alanon meeting that I can't control everything. I have to stop trying to control everything. I love my husband so very much but he has to decide he wants to quit drinking. I no longer pay his child support. That still hasn't made him quit. Nothing will I do not believe. I believe from reading things on the internet he is close to the end stages of alcoholism. I am afraid he will die from his disease. He no longer has an interest in anything. He doesn't work, he sleeps most of the day and can't sleep at night. I'm so lonely, I go to church by myself, spend most the weekend by myself because he is either asleep or in the bathroom. It's so sad to see such a good person who has accomplished so much in life give up. It's so much easier to drink then to live a sober life.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 8
Sigh, so much for my quiet week. Just here to vent, hoping it helps me relieve tension...last night my sober AH arrived home from work all mushy gushy. Made me shrimp with some very tasty cream sauce - one thing about my AH is that one of his favourite stress relievers is sex, always has to be something right...almost like if he isn't drinking then I have to step up to the plate to replace it - as usual I was prepared to go ahead just to avoid the discussion and arguement that would surely ensue if I turned him down, after all I've been turning him down since Sunday. He gives me some nice speech about how this isn't about getting me in bed, that I'm free to do as I choose, the shrimp and such are just a good way for us to spend time together. 10pm roles around, shrimp gone, "well aren't we going to have sex?"...que arguement...sigh...at the end of the arguement of course he says he meant what he said earlier, that he just got confused about what was happening.
Went to bed reading about detachment...so when my AH decided to let our 3 year old get out of bed at 5:50, when the kid just had to go pee, I decided to try to detach. Who cares if he is tired today, I will deal with it. Course AH spent the morning stirring the pot, its almost like he wants me to get angry - told me I should wake up and tell him I loved him, that change isn't a process it should happen immediately...ie. wake up and start fresh like everything is ok, he is big on that one...forget yesterday and move on. Is that really what I should be doing?? He makes me feel like I am wrong to let the past burden me, that I should forget it and pretend our marriage is healthy....either that or he is just working me up to get me in bed tonight.
Haven't gotten through the entire detachment section of my book - not sure I understand how to detach yourself from a husband who sober or drunk is emotionally and physically needy - and do you just ignore kid issues as long as its not a safety thing?
So don't feel like moving today
KM
Went to bed reading about detachment...so when my AH decided to let our 3 year old get out of bed at 5:50, when the kid just had to go pee, I decided to try to detach. Who cares if he is tired today, I will deal with it. Course AH spent the morning stirring the pot, its almost like he wants me to get angry - told me I should wake up and tell him I loved him, that change isn't a process it should happen immediately...ie. wake up and start fresh like everything is ok, he is big on that one...forget yesterday and move on. Is that really what I should be doing?? He makes me feel like I am wrong to let the past burden me, that I should forget it and pretend our marriage is healthy....either that or he is just working me up to get me in bed tonight.
Haven't gotten through the entire detachment section of my book - not sure I understand how to detach yourself from a husband who sober or drunk is emotionally and physically needy - and do you just ignore kid issues as long as its not a safety thing?
So don't feel like moving today
KM
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
Well....I don't think anyone should have to have sex if they don't want to. I mean there is a difference between not wanting to because you are sleepy but you do anyway, than not wanting to because you DON"T WANT TO.
I am learning to pick and choose my battles in my relationship. Some things you do need to just let go - not everything. The core issue here is your husband is an A not in recovery, he is often not nice to you, and he is irritable. Seems to like to argue a lot as well. Seems like when he doesn't get his way he pitches a fit. I wonder how many times you have given in so you don't have to argue about it.
These are tactics to control someone.
Detaching is a mind set. You can't divide your husband into nice husband/mean husband. They are the same person. You must feel like he has a leash around your neck and is jerking you all over the place - pulls you in with the nice, loving guy then kicks you in the ass with the mean, demanding guy.
You have to set boundaries and not be drawn into an argument. Its hard to argue with yourself so STOP arguing with him. If he wants something and you don't say it. If he starts arguing don't respond. Walk out of the room, take a walk.
In other words give no fuel to the fire.
I am learning to pick and choose my battles in my relationship. Some things you do need to just let go - not everything. The core issue here is your husband is an A not in recovery, he is often not nice to you, and he is irritable. Seems to like to argue a lot as well. Seems like when he doesn't get his way he pitches a fit. I wonder how many times you have given in so you don't have to argue about it.
These are tactics to control someone.
Detaching is a mind set. You can't divide your husband into nice husband/mean husband. They are the same person. You must feel like he has a leash around your neck and is jerking you all over the place - pulls you in with the nice, loving guy then kicks you in the ass with the mean, demanding guy.
You have to set boundaries and not be drawn into an argument. Its hard to argue with yourself so STOP arguing with him. If he wants something and you don't say it. If he starts arguing don't respond. Walk out of the room, take a walk.
In other words give no fuel to the fire.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
I know for me when I first attempted detachment I was very angry so it was more like a hostile withdrawal of my support and love, and that only made the situation worse. I felt hopeless and had this desperate acceptance of the unacceptable.
I began attending al-anon and doing a lot of reading from books I got at the meeting. Talking with others after meetings and coming here.
We don’t get it over night, we don’t get it by reading one book and we don’t change our own behaviors until we are ready……much like the addict/alcoholic.
When you say kid issues, you mean your husband allowing the 3 year old to get out of bed at 5:50?? Is that acceptable to you? Is that something you feel you need to stand your ground on and debate it with him, only you can answer that.
I began attending al-anon and doing a lot of reading from books I got at the meeting. Talking with others after meetings and coming here.
We don’t get it over night, we don’t get it by reading one book and we don’t change our own behaviors until we are ready……much like the addict/alcoholic.
When you say kid issues, you mean your husband allowing the 3 year old to get out of bed at 5:50?? Is that acceptable to you? Is that something you feel you need to stand your ground on and debate it with him, only you can answer that.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 8
Once again I just want to say how wonderful it is just to have some place to talk. I haven't really talked to anybody in 4 years about the problems in my marriage. Telling people how awful things are at times, then staying in the same situation you kind of start to feel like an idiot so its easier to pretend to the outside world that things are fine.
Redatlanta you hit the nail on the head about the nice h/mean h comments. Feel like my entire marriage has been like that. Mean h has certainly changed his tactics over the last few years - doesn't spend as much time swearing and name calling - but now he just comes out in other ways. And sometimes if we argue long enough the old mean one comes out. Spend my life worrying about how to ensure mean h does not appear...is the kitchen clean enough, did I put the shoes away in the foyer, does he have long underwear to wear to work tomorrow, did I remember to have the kids call him before they went to bed - its none stop. Most days he is only here for 2 hours and my day still feels like it is filled with ensuring everything is the way he likes it. I will give the stating what I want thing a go and walking a way if he disagrees.
Atalose - I agree this should be a long process of recovery for both of us. Not sure how to deal with his daily pressure to just be in love with him. Told him yesterday I was unhappy and that I want to change that for myself, that we would work through it and see where we end up, asked that he back off for a bit...guess he didn't understand what that meant.
The kid issues - normally if he did what he did this morning I would have been raging but I told myself this morning that it really wasn't that big of a deal, certainly not worth my raging. I thought I did much better then I normally would have done. My only concern I guess would be that if it continues and other such things occur my 3 year olds routine will be mucked up and I find kids thrive on routine. Just wondering how to de-tach when you still have to co-parent? Try not to sweat the small stuff I guess?
Redatlanta you hit the nail on the head about the nice h/mean h comments. Feel like my entire marriage has been like that. Mean h has certainly changed his tactics over the last few years - doesn't spend as much time swearing and name calling - but now he just comes out in other ways. And sometimes if we argue long enough the old mean one comes out. Spend my life worrying about how to ensure mean h does not appear...is the kitchen clean enough, did I put the shoes away in the foyer, does he have long underwear to wear to work tomorrow, did I remember to have the kids call him before they went to bed - its none stop. Most days he is only here for 2 hours and my day still feels like it is filled with ensuring everything is the way he likes it. I will give the stating what I want thing a go and walking a way if he disagrees.
Atalose - I agree this should be a long process of recovery for both of us. Not sure how to deal with his daily pressure to just be in love with him. Told him yesterday I was unhappy and that I want to change that for myself, that we would work through it and see where we end up, asked that he back off for a bit...guess he didn't understand what that meant.
The kid issues - normally if he did what he did this morning I would have been raging but I told myself this morning that it really wasn't that big of a deal, certainly not worth my raging. I thought I did much better then I normally would have done. My only concern I guess would be that if it continues and other such things occur my 3 year olds routine will be mucked up and I find kids thrive on routine. Just wondering how to de-tach when you still have to co-parent? Try not to sweat the small stuff I guess?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
Yes don't sweat the small stuff. Your own reaction drives interaction.
Your husband does remind me of mine in some ways. Mine is quite OCD about some things, not everything. You will , or perhaps have, exhausted yourself trying to make sure everything is perfect as to avoid confrontation. I did that. And, its sets forth an REALLY POOR habit in your marriage which is that husband puts the onus on you to make sure everything is "done right". You have accepted this position and so did I. I took it a step further though by trying to do EVERYTHING even things that RAH hadn't asked me to. This was a big part of my codependency in the relationship.
I am not sure but it sounds like you are a stay at home mom. This doesn't mean slave. A mom is a fulltime job, managing a house is a full time job. Being a wife is a full time job. In other words, when does your job day end? Sounds like never.
So in my own relationship here's what I did. I retired. When RAH would point out through the day the things that weren't done to his liking - instead of rushing to fix it - I told him to. Not ugly - just pointed out the obvious which is he was not above pulling out the clorox clean up and wiping down the kitchen to his satisfaction - I had already done it to mine. I stopped making dr appt, I stopped washing his clothes, I definitely stopped folding them as he would always complain in fact anything that he complained about I just stopped doing. This was not inititally taken well even though I was nice in my responses. I detached from his anger literally didn't give a crap if he blew a gasket. I did say to him quite early that I was not a slave, nor a maid. And to feel free to hire one btw.
RAH absorbed this over a couple of days and eventually did see that it wasn't fair AT ALL. Truth though was IT WAS MY OWN FAULT for allowing it in the first place.
Your husband does remind me of mine in some ways. Mine is quite OCD about some things, not everything. You will , or perhaps have, exhausted yourself trying to make sure everything is perfect as to avoid confrontation. I did that. And, its sets forth an REALLY POOR habit in your marriage which is that husband puts the onus on you to make sure everything is "done right". You have accepted this position and so did I. I took it a step further though by trying to do EVERYTHING even things that RAH hadn't asked me to. This was a big part of my codependency in the relationship.
I am not sure but it sounds like you are a stay at home mom. This doesn't mean slave. A mom is a fulltime job, managing a house is a full time job. Being a wife is a full time job. In other words, when does your job day end? Sounds like never.
So in my own relationship here's what I did. I retired. When RAH would point out through the day the things that weren't done to his liking - instead of rushing to fix it - I told him to. Not ugly - just pointed out the obvious which is he was not above pulling out the clorox clean up and wiping down the kitchen to his satisfaction - I had already done it to mine. I stopped making dr appt, I stopped washing his clothes, I definitely stopped folding them as he would always complain in fact anything that he complained about I just stopped doing. This was not inititally taken well even though I was nice in my responses. I detached from his anger literally didn't give a crap if he blew a gasket. I did say to him quite early that I was not a slave, nor a maid. And to feel free to hire one btw.
RAH absorbed this over a couple of days and eventually did see that it wasn't fair AT ALL. Truth though was IT WAS MY OWN FAULT for allowing it in the first place.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 8
Everything you said Redatlanta hits home. Yes I am a stay at home Mom - although I do have a part-time job that I do from home...another gripe of my AH, he wants me to quit so I can "better look after myself". LOL what a laugh that is. I cut back on my workload a month ago when my 5-year old's health started to decline, and now he thinks I should just quit out right. Very afraid of not having the work - for fear of what he would expect out of me in a day & for fear of being soley dependent on his income. Everytime I do something I wonder if I'm doing it for his sake and that just makes me not want to do it at all.
Taking your words to heart and will attempt to stop obsessing over his obsessions.
Seeing a counsellor today and AH said I could go to the Al-anon meeting in town tonight, we shall see if I make it there with out a struggle.
Taking your words to heart and will attempt to stop obsessing over his obsessions.
Seeing a counsellor today and AH said I could go to the Al-anon meeting in town tonight, we shall see if I make it there with out a struggle.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
I understand your concerns about being w/o a job--for the first time in my 17 years of marriage, I am working less than full time (for quite some time I worked a FT job as well as a PT one) and of course THIS has to be the time in which things have become unmanageable, when I am not able to cover my costs (and I am cheap!). Part of my anger is over the fact that things had to happen NOW, when I am far more vulnerable financially than I have ever been before, and HE is far better off financially than HE has ever been before!
I do not have kids, but I do have 3 dogs, one of whom is 15 w/limited mobility and some incontinence, so it's not an option for me to just go get a cheap apartment somewhere--I need to bear my animals in mind also. I understand your feeling trapped and inadequate while others are truly depending on you to come thru for them.
Please do go to your meeting tonight, whatever you have to do to get there, and you'll be in my thoughts today. Wishing you clarity and strength.
I do not have kids, but I do have 3 dogs, one of whom is 15 w/limited mobility and some incontinence, so it's not an option for me to just go get a cheap apartment somewhere--I need to bear my animals in mind also. I understand your feeling trapped and inadequate while others are truly depending on you to come thru for them.
Please do go to your meeting tonight, whatever you have to do to get there, and you'll be in my thoughts today. Wishing you clarity and strength.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 8
Honeypig, I hear what you are saying. When I first met my AH, I had a good paying FT job, and then we moved to be closer to his new job - so now if I leave I have no idea what I would do financially. Certainly the wrong time for things to come to a head for me.
Counselling session was less then helpful - spent the time reviewing my life with her so we never actually got into the nitty gritty. One thing I seem to have trouble figuring out is what is "normal" couple arguements & what is not normal. I sometimes wonder if I just blame his difficult personality on everything.
For example - since yesterday things have been good...I know a whole 36h or something...he is on nights so was tired today. I tried to keep the kids out as much as possible so he could rest. My brother's family was up & my parents invited us over for dinner - my AH, who has a shift tonight & does not particularly enjoy my family, decided to stay home. In order to give him time to rest before his shift, I left early - everything was great when I left. At 7:30, just as I'm rounding up the kids to leave my parents, he calls me on my cell - tells me I never told him my brother was up, that he had to eat dinner alone, and is lonely & feeling very separate from us all while sounding very irritated with me. I hung up on him, cause my first instinct was to argue & I did not want to while standing at my parents. Did I do something wrong here? I turned my cell off, came home to find a long winded message telling me how unfair I had been tonight to make him eat alone.
I just want to tell him he is crazy. Should I feel sorry for him instead because he is lonely? I just don't understand & know this entire incident is going to cloud the coming days. What is a good healthy way to deal with this? Ignore it and hope he doesn't bring it up, then go on with tomorrow like it never happened? Hate how anxious and tense it all made me feel. I can't pack up the kids and leave to avoid him tomorrow.
Counselling session was less then helpful - spent the time reviewing my life with her so we never actually got into the nitty gritty. One thing I seem to have trouble figuring out is what is "normal" couple arguements & what is not normal. I sometimes wonder if I just blame his difficult personality on everything.
For example - since yesterday things have been good...I know a whole 36h or something...he is on nights so was tired today. I tried to keep the kids out as much as possible so he could rest. My brother's family was up & my parents invited us over for dinner - my AH, who has a shift tonight & does not particularly enjoy my family, decided to stay home. In order to give him time to rest before his shift, I left early - everything was great when I left. At 7:30, just as I'm rounding up the kids to leave my parents, he calls me on my cell - tells me I never told him my brother was up, that he had to eat dinner alone, and is lonely & feeling very separate from us all while sounding very irritated with me. I hung up on him, cause my first instinct was to argue & I did not want to while standing at my parents. Did I do something wrong here? I turned my cell off, came home to find a long winded message telling me how unfair I had been tonight to make him eat alone.
I just want to tell him he is crazy. Should I feel sorry for him instead because he is lonely? I just don't understand & know this entire incident is going to cloud the coming days. What is a good healthy way to deal with this? Ignore it and hope he doesn't bring it up, then go on with tomorrow like it never happened? Hate how anxious and tense it all made me feel. I can't pack up the kids and leave to avoid him tomorrow.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
Hunter, you are not responsible for anyone else's feelings. You don't say if you made it to your meeting or not, but again, I would urge you to go. Counseling is not the same as a meeting (unless perhaps if counselor is a specialist in alcoholism?). You'll learn so much at meetings about what is your responsibility (you) and what is not (other adults). You'll also learn options for dealing w/various situations.
If you can't get to a meeting, do as much reading as you can here. You'll start to see things in a whole new light.
((((((hunterdan)))))) take care
If you can't get to a meeting, do as much reading as you can here. You'll start to see things in a whole new light.
((((((hunterdan)))))) take care
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Seeking Peace
Posts: 1,371
Welcome to SR Hunterdan. I am so glad you are here. Your story resonates so deeply with me as I am the exwife of an alcoholic. We have a son together so I understand how having children factors into your decision-making and thought process.
I cannot encourage you enough to go to al anon. You don't have to be a religious person. The program is a spiritual program...not a religious one. The steps don't refer to God or Buddah or any particular religious figure...they refer to a 'higher power'. For some people, this is nature. For others, it is just a feeling that there is something out there greater than us. Please don't let your misconception that it is a religious program keep you away. Al anon literally saved my life. And at the $1 donation that they ask for at each meeting, it's way cheaper and far more effective than counseling in my opinion.
The second thing I to say is that alcoholism is a progressive disease. My exah was a functioning alcoholic for years...he could hold down a job and limit his drinking to "just beer" at night. He could white knuckle it and go three or four days without drinking but he was a miserable SOB during those three days. If he wasn't being a complete jerk, he was sleeping on the couch. Somedays, I almost wished he would just drink and get it over with because when he drank he was lovey-dovey and almost pleasant to be around untill he had too much and then he began stumbling around and slurring his words.
I felt so lonley. And as the years passed, I felt isolated because I stopped talking to friends and family about what was going on because I felt so bad about my situation and ashamed that I couldn't figure out how to either get out of the marriage or how to fix it.
For years I walked around angry and bitter and depressed. I stopped laughing. I stopped doing things that made me happy. I withdrew into my own dark, shameful, angry little world.
I tried really hard to put on a good front for our son and to make our homelife as 'normal' as I could. I spent every christmas eve wrapping presents by myself and every easter putting together baskets and hiding them alone. I assumed the role of single parent to our son even though his dad was there physically. As time went on, I assumed the role of parent to my exah too...making his appts....getting him into rehab four different times....getting him to the er so he could be admitted to the psych ward four times as things progresssed from bad to worse.
I know I've gone on a bit here but I just want you to understand the progressive nature of this disease. And I want you to see how this disease can take us down with it if we aren't careful. Alcoholism is a FAMILY DISEASE. We, as the spouse or loved one of an addict, might not be drinking the alcohol but we are just as affected and we become just a sick as they are. Our sickness takes the form of depression, anxiety, anger, isolation, shame, fear, regret...the list goes on and on.
Please seek help for yourself. Please give al anon a try. They have meetings at all times during the day. You will find people who 'get it' at these meetings. I found more than that...I found a healthier way of life for myself.
You aren't trapped. There is help available. Please love yourself enough to seek it out. You will benefit and your children will benefit even more.
Hugs....keep posting....
Mary
I cannot encourage you enough to go to al anon. You don't have to be a religious person. The program is a spiritual program...not a religious one. The steps don't refer to God or Buddah or any particular religious figure...they refer to a 'higher power'. For some people, this is nature. For others, it is just a feeling that there is something out there greater than us. Please don't let your misconception that it is a religious program keep you away. Al anon literally saved my life. And at the $1 donation that they ask for at each meeting, it's way cheaper and far more effective than counseling in my opinion.
The second thing I to say is that alcoholism is a progressive disease. My exah was a functioning alcoholic for years...he could hold down a job and limit his drinking to "just beer" at night. He could white knuckle it and go three or four days without drinking but he was a miserable SOB during those three days. If he wasn't being a complete jerk, he was sleeping on the couch. Somedays, I almost wished he would just drink and get it over with because when he drank he was lovey-dovey and almost pleasant to be around untill he had too much and then he began stumbling around and slurring his words.
I felt so lonley. And as the years passed, I felt isolated because I stopped talking to friends and family about what was going on because I felt so bad about my situation and ashamed that I couldn't figure out how to either get out of the marriage or how to fix it.
For years I walked around angry and bitter and depressed. I stopped laughing. I stopped doing things that made me happy. I withdrew into my own dark, shameful, angry little world.
I tried really hard to put on a good front for our son and to make our homelife as 'normal' as I could. I spent every christmas eve wrapping presents by myself and every easter putting together baskets and hiding them alone. I assumed the role of single parent to our son even though his dad was there physically. As time went on, I assumed the role of parent to my exah too...making his appts....getting him into rehab four different times....getting him to the er so he could be admitted to the psych ward four times as things progresssed from bad to worse.
I know I've gone on a bit here but I just want you to understand the progressive nature of this disease. And I want you to see how this disease can take us down with it if we aren't careful. Alcoholism is a FAMILY DISEASE. We, as the spouse or loved one of an addict, might not be drinking the alcohol but we are just as affected and we become just a sick as they are. Our sickness takes the form of depression, anxiety, anger, isolation, shame, fear, regret...the list goes on and on.
Please seek help for yourself. Please give al anon a try. They have meetings at all times during the day. You will find people who 'get it' at these meetings. I found more than that...I found a healthier way of life for myself.
You aren't trapped. There is help available. Please love yourself enough to seek it out. You will benefit and your children will benefit even more.
Hugs....keep posting....
Mary
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
Just state the facts - he was welcome to come with you if he wanted. Don't try to get him to see it from your side that you were trying to accomodate him getting rest - he will argue you to death.
IMO he is just looking for attention. I would not be sucked into these ridiculous type arguments anymore.
A healthy way to deal with it - if he brings it up say the truth. You could have come and you chose not to. You are a grown up. Act like one....its not my JOB to accommodate and make everything alright for you.
Feel sorry for him? Because he was alone for a couple of hours? You need to work on your own codependency. It is most likely attributing to the problems in your marriage.
IMO he is just looking for attention. I would not be sucked into these ridiculous type arguments anymore.
A healthy way to deal with it - if he brings it up say the truth. You could have come and you chose not to. You are a grown up. Act like one....its not my JOB to accommodate and make everything alright for you.
Feel sorry for him? Because he was alone for a couple of hours? You need to work on your own codependency. It is most likely attributing to the problems in your marriage.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 8
Hi again, been a few weeks...
Lost my cookies this morning and feeling pretty depressed about it. Gained a few steps last week-end, but now feel like I'm right back where I started. Last week-end I finally got the nerve to talk to my parents, and it went very well. I did not mention the alcohol thought - only said we were having trouble and that I was contemplating leaving. They have never like AH, but still did not push me one way or the other, just said they'd be there to help whichever path I took. AH, who was at work Sunday, pushed me for a decision that morning on the phone - so told him I wanted him to move out so we could both have time to recover. He agreed initially, but then called all afternoon to attempt to find a solution that would work better for him. Sun night we had a good talk, he admitted to quite a bit, we agreed to co-exsist in the house and made up a safe word to use if either of us needed space. Monday was great, he even went to a neighbour who he knew was heavy into AA. Things went back to normal after that - he did go to an AA meeting on Tues night and is getting involved in it as much as he can. Thurs - after a very bad dinner episode (which also brought to light that our good day Monday was only because he had spent the afternoon drinking) - I told him again that I felt that we should take a break so that we could both heal. He agreed - but wanted to go stay at his Mom's instead of getting an apartment - his Mom is 3h from where he works & a hour & 1/2 from home. He said he'd go there work permitting and stay the odd night at our house. I said whatever works...but of course he came home yesterday, convinced me to let him at least stay the week-end and if anything went bad again he'd leave.
Last night he got the kids all excited about making me breakfast and made plans to take them to see his Mom - said I could come or not come. I even said last night that breakfast maybe wasn't a good idea - he likes to do these grand gestures to put bandaides on things and of course make me feel guilty for not appreciating him.
This morning, as I suspected, he had trouble getting his positive thoughts flowing. Needed his coffee before starting breakfast - kept the kids waiting - then went to the kitchen to start it all by himself instead of including them - and when they went in there to help he quickly got irritated with them. When I suggested maybe we should just do our regular breakfast, he got upset and had to go out for a smoke. Came back in a bit better, but the kids were slowly starting to climb the walls. He went for a shower while I struggled to convince the boys to get dressed. He got out and got irritated at the boys for being in our room - needed a moment. Then came out and started whining about how he didn't want to take them out - was also ticked that I had decided not to go - he was tired and needed a break (he has worked off and on all week, but has not had the kids at all) which I of course pointed out...breaking point for me was him throwing out that he wanted to do something for himself like I did Thurs morning volunteering. I lost it at that point, I rarely get out of the house to do anything, and my career & education have been indefinitely suspended because of our location & our kids, but he never fails to make me feel like I don't deserve to do anything. I yelled and went to our room, slamming the door, threw some things around. My poor boys, so ashamed.
I just want to make this easy on them. I want AH to leave and get help. He is going to meetings, I know he is trying. I just don't see how it is healthy having him here trying - is that wrong? Our boys are a very stressful pair right now and they are often times too much for me so I know they are way too much for him. I can't do anything about the stress of the kids though. I also need time to regroup and get control of myself. He just won't go, and when he is gone he hounds me because he is desperate to keep me. How do I get the space I need without disrupting the kids lives? On top of everything, we are still dealing with my 5-yo illness. Stupid part is he is loosing me by staying, if he would just leave, we could all work together to get back to a better place.
Sorry for the long rant
KM
Lost my cookies this morning and feeling pretty depressed about it. Gained a few steps last week-end, but now feel like I'm right back where I started. Last week-end I finally got the nerve to talk to my parents, and it went very well. I did not mention the alcohol thought - only said we were having trouble and that I was contemplating leaving. They have never like AH, but still did not push me one way or the other, just said they'd be there to help whichever path I took. AH, who was at work Sunday, pushed me for a decision that morning on the phone - so told him I wanted him to move out so we could both have time to recover. He agreed initially, but then called all afternoon to attempt to find a solution that would work better for him. Sun night we had a good talk, he admitted to quite a bit, we agreed to co-exsist in the house and made up a safe word to use if either of us needed space. Monday was great, he even went to a neighbour who he knew was heavy into AA. Things went back to normal after that - he did go to an AA meeting on Tues night and is getting involved in it as much as he can. Thurs - after a very bad dinner episode (which also brought to light that our good day Monday was only because he had spent the afternoon drinking) - I told him again that I felt that we should take a break so that we could both heal. He agreed - but wanted to go stay at his Mom's instead of getting an apartment - his Mom is 3h from where he works & a hour & 1/2 from home. He said he'd go there work permitting and stay the odd night at our house. I said whatever works...but of course he came home yesterday, convinced me to let him at least stay the week-end and if anything went bad again he'd leave.
Last night he got the kids all excited about making me breakfast and made plans to take them to see his Mom - said I could come or not come. I even said last night that breakfast maybe wasn't a good idea - he likes to do these grand gestures to put bandaides on things and of course make me feel guilty for not appreciating him.
This morning, as I suspected, he had trouble getting his positive thoughts flowing. Needed his coffee before starting breakfast - kept the kids waiting - then went to the kitchen to start it all by himself instead of including them - and when they went in there to help he quickly got irritated with them. When I suggested maybe we should just do our regular breakfast, he got upset and had to go out for a smoke. Came back in a bit better, but the kids were slowly starting to climb the walls. He went for a shower while I struggled to convince the boys to get dressed. He got out and got irritated at the boys for being in our room - needed a moment. Then came out and started whining about how he didn't want to take them out - was also ticked that I had decided not to go - he was tired and needed a break (he has worked off and on all week, but has not had the kids at all) which I of course pointed out...breaking point for me was him throwing out that he wanted to do something for himself like I did Thurs morning volunteering. I lost it at that point, I rarely get out of the house to do anything, and my career & education have been indefinitely suspended because of our location & our kids, but he never fails to make me feel like I don't deserve to do anything. I yelled and went to our room, slamming the door, threw some things around. My poor boys, so ashamed.
I just want to make this easy on them. I want AH to leave and get help. He is going to meetings, I know he is trying. I just don't see how it is healthy having him here trying - is that wrong? Our boys are a very stressful pair right now and they are often times too much for me so I know they are way too much for him. I can't do anything about the stress of the kids though. I also need time to regroup and get control of myself. He just won't go, and when he is gone he hounds me because he is desperate to keep me. How do I get the space I need without disrupting the kids lives? On top of everything, we are still dealing with my 5-yo illness. Stupid part is he is loosing me by staying, if he would just leave, we could all work together to get back to a better place.
Sorry for the long rant
KM
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Dear hunterdan, I can certainly understand where your irritation and anger are coming from. As you learn more of the "art" of detaching--it will get easier to avoid these kinds of interactions. I found that as I understood the true nature of the disease--these behaviors were rather predictable and I could stay calm and not so unraveled. Understanding the disease allows us to change our expectations of the alcoholic.
Reading the articles by Floyd P. Garrett, M.D.--especially the working of the alcoholic mind and how it effects relationships--helped me more than anything in this respect.
(several articles--fin d on google search).
If the alcoholic has rel ied on our co-dependency nature and our unwitting enabling---they manipulate to get back to that "sweet spot", after we have drawn some uncomfortable boundries. The goal is to get back to the status-quo which had worked for them and allowed the possibility to do controlled drinking (if not now--in the future).
It does look to me like you HAVE made progress. Don't be too hard on yourself--recovery doesn't always go in a straight line!
sincerely, dandylion
Reading the articles by Floyd P. Garrett, M.D.--especially the working of the alcoholic mind and how it effects relationships--helped me more than anything in this respect.
(several articles--fin d on google search).
If the alcoholic has rel ied on our co-dependency nature and our unwitting enabling---they manipulate to get back to that "sweet spot", after we have drawn some uncomfortable boundries. The goal is to get back to the status-quo which had worked for them and allowed the possibility to do controlled drinking (if not now--in the future).
It does look to me like you HAVE made progress. Don't be too hard on yourself--recovery doesn't always go in a straight line!
sincerely, dandylion
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