ResignedToWait

So, I just found out that my AW is having a consultation with a divorce lawyer.

I noticed from the charge on the credit card for nearly $300, and then opening the email from the account we both have access too, and seeing she has a consultation tomorrow.
(by the way, the auto-signature block of the consultation confirmation spelled "Family Law" wrong....I mean, your AUTO-SIGNATURE block has the word Family spelled as Famliy??? Ugh, but I digress)

Quick history...I work four hours away...visit every other weekend.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be more than happy to divorce my AW. It's just one of those things that I keep hoping for recovery to get my wife back...and then it not happening. The typical role for many of us.
Actually, thinking about actually being free from the hell of her addiction right now...sort of makes me giddy.

My questions are these:

-Does it matter who files for divorce first? Is it a "whoever files first is the offense, the other is the defense" type of thing? I've no idea what grounds she has in mind with this filing, but I'm thinking about just saying OK SURE! to whatever she throws out there, just to not drag this out and put more money in her lawyers pocket than is required.

-How does this money thing work? I have been the sole provider for us, for the entire ten years we've been married. She has provided zero income to the household.
So, as of this moment, we have zero extra dollars every month. Every dollar is accounted for and used in the budget. (She currently fuels her drinking through credit cards that are in both our names...and is also the card that she used to get the consultation with the lawyer) The credit card usage here puts us more and more in debt. I only found out about this after noticing some odd payments (She previously did all our finances...and I had to take over during her last stint in the hospital) ...and then one of the cards with nearly 10,000 balance on it. (Hey, still 2k more on the limit, why stop now right!? eyeroll) Currently, all our assets are "our" assets, and we do not nor have we ever differentiated between "hers" or "mine".
Anyways, for the divorce settlement...I read that everything is distributed equitably, including the debt. I understand, since I have been the sole income earner for the house, my share will be significantly larger than hers.
I have no problem with losing in this settlement. I want as little heartache as possible in this, and would gladly pay to not have to suffer through this relationship anymore.
So, assuming that I have to take on the vast majority of our debt, as well as provide her money to live (since she's never worked and they'll take that into account), won't I essentially be paying for her lawyer in the long run, since the debt she's going to rack up with it will be right back on me? Wouldn't it be in my best interest to just get this over as fast as possible to avoid having that much more debt at my feet after it's all over?

As it is, I'll probably be looking at bankruptcy after all is said and done, depending on how much the house sells for.
Ohh, that's another question...will I be required to keep her up in the house we currently own (I stay in a studio apt near work), or will I be able to "force" us to sell it?

Sorry if this post sort of rambles...I've literally had only a few minutes to soak this in before jumping up and typing this out. As it is, I'm surprised she was sober long enough to make the appointment in the first place.

PohsFriend

See an atty TOMORROW.

Equitable doesn't mean in proportion to contribution, it means roughly half of all community property and debt. ....after ten years she likely qualifies for alimony unless divorce is granted to you for cause. Duck alignment time.

There is this thing called temporary orders - it defines who may do what while the divorce is in progress. Keeps anyone from disposing of assets or creating debts or liquidating accounts.

Reading between the lines I am hearing that you voluntarily left... To us that means you could not live with active addiction and took action. Under family code in most states that is called abandonment - which is one of the for fault divorce reasons. Which might entitle the abandoned spouse to a disproportionate share under equitable distribution norms.

When a court divides assets... It's the only time you wish you had a case of crabs....

If there is any history of DV you have issues (like, yer toast) You need to spend tonight documenting stuff and getting ready to meet with a family law atty in the morning. She who files first, if alleging certain key things, can get temporary support, lock you out and make you spend a bunch to get back to even. I don't know DC but given the voting record there I'm cringing. Not starting a political argument here but the further left an area is, the more you will be punished for being male.

Whatever you do, DO NOT REACT TO WHAT YOU LEARNED! If she emails asking you something then pick up the phone and keep the answer short, do notbarguevand no matter what do not express anger or do, say, write or even think anything remotely threatening. Divorce attys worth their salt can make Ghandi look like hitler and mother therasa look like Lindsey Lohan on a three day bender in Vegas. Think think think before you act or react to anything.

Lawyer, 8am.

ResignedToWait

I appreciate your response Poh, you always seem very wise on these matters.
It's not like what you described though...I'm here due to military orders, as we couldn't sell the house when the orders came to me. There's no abandonment, or threat of it. As I said, I visit every other week...it's in the budget, couldn't swing more often even if I wanted to.

I can't wait to hear (if she even tells me) what kind of grounds this will be on. There is absolutely nothing I've read on that she has cause. The best she could hope for would be to make up something completely, and even then she'd have no proof.

I have both of her adult children (25 and 18) that I told about this tonight. Both are amazed at her gall, and are jumping to testify at the hell they lived through with her and her alcoholism. (The 25 yo hasn't spoken to her in a year due to the AW's behaviour)

I know you said that I should get an Atty...but I am already essentially paying for HER lawyer...it seems so wonky to hire someone to fight against that. If I'm willing to "let her win" in a no-fault divorce...could I get away with not hiring an atty?

I mean, as long as it's a no-fault, I'd pretty much sign it on the spot, assets be damned. Money is able to be regained, time is not. Am I being naive?

ShootingStar1

I left my abusive AH of 20 years on July 4th, and while I had a lot of fault grounds, I hemmed and hawed and cried here on SR that I didn't want to "ruin his reputation" by filing fault grounds.

Well, 6 months later, and he has been impossibly harassing throughout the separation and about the divorce, and having filed fault grounds was essential to getting a fair settlement. If you file them and don't need them, you can always just settle.

But if your AW throws out a lot of b#lls87t, then having the ability to write about the fault grounds in the Interrogatory stage of the divorce (where you ask each other questions that the other has to answer under oath) is essential to having the leverage to get a fair settlement. You still don't have to go to trial, but for your AW to know you can is worth its weight in gold in getting toward a negotiated settlement.

And if you need to go to trial, the Judge will decide the outcome based on the facts that you will be able to present based on the fault filing, NOT on her alcoholic quacking.

Each state is different. Lots of lawyers have free consultations; get one or more ASAP, in the area of your residence. Do it over the phone if you can't be there in person. And do it soon, today if you can.

Good luck; being as tough as possible now will put you in a better negotiating position later. That is becoming absolutely essential for me.

ShootingStar1

ResignedToWait

Thank you ShootingStar for adding.

Please let us know how your situation is resolved when it finally does!

ReflectingOnMe

You don't really need hardcore 'grounds' for divorce..it can be something as simple as incompatibility.

Pelican

What is happening now ~ YOU are paying for a lawyer to protect HER best interests. To protect YOUR interests in reaching a fair resolution, find an attorney.

What we are all suggesting is that YOU get a free consultation with an attorney in the community where your home is located. In face or over the phone. I did one of my consultations over the phone with an attorney thourgh my employers EAP. All the questions you asked need to be answered based on the state/county of residence. Each community has it's own pattern of rulings in divorce. A local attorney can share with you the *norm*.

I have divorce experience, and I also have bankruptcy experience. I recommend you consult with a bankruptcy attorney too. There have been drastic changes in the laws of bankruptcy. It is more restrictive.

Based on my experience of divorcing with a mountain of debt (in my name because of his abuse of my accounts, and forgery), I recommend damage control. The joint credit cards are dangerous during this time of limbo. The fallout may result in serious damage to your credit history. Bankruptcy may not be an option.
If you can remove her from your joint accounts (maybe leave her with one card that is almost maxed out), you can limit the amount of damage. It is not that you are being mean ~ it is a boundary to take control of uncontrolled spending.

Remember, you are dealing with an alcoholic ~ not a reasonalbe, sane adult.

Best advice I got for divorcing an alcoholic: Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.

Jazzman

Damage control on the finances and stop the credit card hemorrhage. Get mentally prepared to say good by to half the equity in your home, half your retirement and to pay alimony. You don't have to get into a lengthily costly legal battle if she doesn't want that either. But your only hope right now is that she wants out of the marriage. That might buy you some negotiating room, maybe she would wave some of what she's entitled to if you agree to a speedy uncontested settlement and divorce.

Talk to a lawyer. I wish you luck!

You live in D.C.?

Legal overview of divorce in the District of Columbia; information about child custody, child support, alimony, maintenance, case law and more.

ResignedToWait

Thank you Pelican, I'll work on that now I think. The overwhelming amount of people I've spoken too (here and in RL) are all adamant about seeing an attorney of my own.

Jazzman, I live in MD (two minutes from D.C.), but work in D.C., and of course it looks like she's filing in VA. Oh, and I'm a legal resident of FL.(being military, we can keep our original state residency until we get out)
I'm going to take Pelican's advice and contact an atty in VA near our home, just to make it simpler as far as keeping it all in one jurisdiction.

Update: I had to smile...got a call at work from her a few minutes ago, she's drunk as normal. I said hi, what's up? She said "I just wanted to say I hope you have a nice day"..and that was the end of the convo. A's...amiright? sigh.

Jazzman

Virginia Divorce Forms and Virginia Divorce Laws Online

I've been divorced twice in VA and spent a lot of money getting an unwilling education about Virginia domestic law. My second marriage was short term and my qualifier for this site. She waved her right to alimony and some other things if I dropped the adultery and agreed to a no fault.

VA is a equitable distribution state which in my case meant she was entitled to a percentage of the equity growth in the home I owned prior to the marriage. Each persons situation is different and that's why it's important to talk to a lawyer about your specific situation.

I'll be out of the country until Feb, PM me if you ever want to talk. I feel for you man!

PohsFriend

Thanks for the additional info.

So you are likely looking at no fault. Your best bet is catching her at a rational moment and let her know that if she wants a divorce then if you two can work out the split you are better off. Let's say you have a $1000 item you both want to keep. If you argue about it and have attys in the mix it is gone in two hours.

Divorce sucks but if you are there....

Unless you have complicated finances, domestic violence issues or children to consider you can reduce the pain and expense by hammering out your own deal. where people get wiped out is when they get some silly notion about a courtroom being a place to go for justice. Judges don't want you cluttering up the docket so they will put a long and expensive path between you and trial. They want an agreed to final order because those are easy and least likely to result in further litigation.

Attorneys don't tell you that unless they are honest or they see you can't afford to pay them.

I'd suggest your best bet is to be patient and wait until she's sober and in a rational frame if mind (relative, I know) and ask her about it. Ask her what she wants and if you are ok with a divorce and don't want a fight just say so. Having had one of these, what I did was to put together a spreadsheet of all separate and community property, assets and debts and we went back and forth until we agreed on the division. I drew up the final decree, we went to the judge who didn't read it, I read a statement into the record, he asked if she agreed and he stamped it. I think it cost $300 in filing and copying fees. It also cost me a bad deal... I was willing to part with stuff and took a crappy financial deal because I am pretty good at making money and stuff is replaceable but you only have one sanity :-)

If you want to PM me we can write or talk about what the key items are for you and things you want to protect... Ie, leave my 401k alone and I'll let you keep x....

Not an atty and can't give legal advice. I spent a long time in courtrooms with mother of DD and spent several years teaching dads (and a few moms) how to get appropriate access to their kids pro se. Thankfully my mental disorder is a touch of OCD... Mainly the O part so when I had to fight for my DD I memorized two states' family codes and spent my spare time watching court proceedings to see how the game is played. Suffice it to say that the divorce industry nauseates me and I am thrilled if I can help someone to preserve their assets and avoid feeding that beast.

Proof that God not only has a sense of humor but likes to point out that his is better than mine? DD's mom had a roommate in the mental hospital - a bipolar addict who happened to be a divorce attorney. They bonded :-). Made my life interesting for a few years before the disciplinary committee got that 183 page binder documenting a few dozen ethical lapses and outright criminal behavior. Sadly, she doesn't send Christmas cards.... Hurtful. It's conceivable that the allegations of my being overprotective and humorless when protecting my daughter had some validity.

OhBoy

GET A LAWYER FOR YOURSELF!!!!!!!!! I'm in the middle of a no fault divorce right now. Everything was was going fine, we both agreed to a divorce, we were actually getting along better than we had in years. Then I got credit card statements............... I was lucky, it was only 3 grand in a couple of weeks. I canceled all the joint accounts. Don't cancel the card, CLOSE THE ACCOUNT. If you only cancel the card, she can request a new one as the account is still open. There were many things I did not know she would/could/did do that would have put me in a MUCH worse spot if I hadn't had a lawyer. There were things I didn't even know she was capable of, things that were so against the grain of everything I knew about her, things she would have never been capable of years ago.

This is no time to mess around. Protecting yourself should be your main priority through this. I know the feeling of wanting to be accommodating and trying to get through it as easily as possible, but when going through a divorce, you can't think of it that way. I'm not saying nail her to the wall, but don't be a doormat! My STBXAW was/is trying her best to take advantage of my easy going, ever-giving nature. Theres a big part of me that is still holding onto hope that she seeks recovery & we will live happily ever after, but that just is not going to happen. The only thing I can tell myself is that if someday she does recover, there is no law against us getting back together. I think I just need to tell myself that sometimes to get through this. But today I need to divorce her & protect/care for myself as best as I can. Take care of YOU!

PohsFriend

If you have a divorce in progress it is essential to get temporary orders. Each State has it's own mechanism.

Most courts have what they call standing orders - orders that are automatically in place once a suit is filed and the other party is officially served.

You can write your own additions as long as they are agreed to by the other party and file them with the Court...

Standing orders include stuff like nobody incurs debt or liquidates assets or hides anything, no changing insurance policies or retirement accounts, no harassing each other etcetera

Most important thing you can do is refrain from emotional (especially angry) actions. No angry emails, no facebook slams unless you are in 8th grade, no responding to such nonsense either, just screen capture and document document document if you expect problems.

Best bet is always an agreed to final agreement. Absent that, the second best thing is agreeing on the 90% you can agree on and then mediate the other ten.

...unless there are kids involved. That's another thread entirely ;-)

By the way - if you think your spouse is planning a divorce and might play games with assets/debts then go ahead and file and get the temporary orders done.... Filing a case simply establishes the Court's jurisdiction and forces both parties to behave under penalty of contempt of court. If things work out, you can withdraw the suit at any time.