STBAXH's Substance Abuse Evaluation Report - oh jeez
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Join Date: Aug 2012
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STBAXH's Substance Abuse Evaluation Report - oh jeez
Good morning SR friends,
Yesterday was the first mandated mediation session in my divorce process. STBAXH and I did not communicate directly because of a protection order - but rather the lawyers spoke with the mediators. He was supposed to get a substance abuse evaluation months ago but we've seen nothing - until yesterday in the middle of mediation (arghhhhhh!!!!).
Reading the report threw me for such a loop. It was such a load of $#@*.
He watered down his drinking habits in his communication to the counselor - who wrote a very detailed report. There were bits of truth in it so that I could recognize it as him - but in no way was it forthcoming and honest. This is not what surprised me - not in the least. Because even though the report was based on only 10% truth, it still screamed ALCOHOLIC!!!!!!! The real truth is so, so much more ugly.
The report acknowledged that he drinks in isolation because his family doesn't like it - particularly his wife. He only drinks after his boys go to bed. He drinks 3 or 4 cranberry vodka cocktails 4 nights a week alone in the basement watching sports. He drinks to get "buzzed" but doesn't like to be wasted. And when he has been wasted it has been when he has been depressed or angry. It also acknowleged that he has stopped on several occasions when he thought it was getting out of hand ....but then picked it up again later believing he could monitor it. And that he was very aware that his family of addicts (all of them) parents and 4 siblings puts him at high risk of the disease.
The psychologist said that he almost certainly does not meet the definition of alcoholic but if he develops cravings or experiences withdrawals when he stops then AA or a more secular program could be helpful.
OMG! Really?????
Reading this report was so very upsetting. (It also said "he was not sure if he ever loved me"). I just can't believe the conclusion that the counselor reached. It has not changed any strategy in the divorce at this point - we are sticking to our plan that there are no shared parental rights until he demonstrates efforts towards sobriety etc.....
Anyway, STBXAH has agreed to sign a release so that I may talk to this counselor about the report. What should I ask? I can't imagine the counselor would engage in a "he said, she said" and alter the report. I'm not sure what purpose this access will serve but I thought that someone here might have some ideas or had a similar experience.
Any thoughts are helpful (including telling me I'm not crazy to think the report was bogus).
Thanks all,
MamaKit
Yesterday was the first mandated mediation session in my divorce process. STBAXH and I did not communicate directly because of a protection order - but rather the lawyers spoke with the mediators. He was supposed to get a substance abuse evaluation months ago but we've seen nothing - until yesterday in the middle of mediation (arghhhhhh!!!!).
Reading the report threw me for such a loop. It was such a load of $#@*.
He watered down his drinking habits in his communication to the counselor - who wrote a very detailed report. There were bits of truth in it so that I could recognize it as him - but in no way was it forthcoming and honest. This is not what surprised me - not in the least. Because even though the report was based on only 10% truth, it still screamed ALCOHOLIC!!!!!!! The real truth is so, so much more ugly.
The report acknowledged that he drinks in isolation because his family doesn't like it - particularly his wife. He only drinks after his boys go to bed. He drinks 3 or 4 cranberry vodka cocktails 4 nights a week alone in the basement watching sports. He drinks to get "buzzed" but doesn't like to be wasted. And when he has been wasted it has been when he has been depressed or angry. It also acknowleged that he has stopped on several occasions when he thought it was getting out of hand ....but then picked it up again later believing he could monitor it. And that he was very aware that his family of addicts (all of them) parents and 4 siblings puts him at high risk of the disease.
The psychologist said that he almost certainly does not meet the definition of alcoholic but if he develops cravings or experiences withdrawals when he stops then AA or a more secular program could be helpful.
OMG! Really?????
Reading this report was so very upsetting. (It also said "he was not sure if he ever loved me"). I just can't believe the conclusion that the counselor reached. It has not changed any strategy in the divorce at this point - we are sticking to our plan that there are no shared parental rights until he demonstrates efforts towards sobriety etc.....
Anyway, STBXAH has agreed to sign a release so that I may talk to this counselor about the report. What should I ask? I can't imagine the counselor would engage in a "he said, she said" and alter the report. I'm not sure what purpose this access will serve but I thought that someone here might have some ideas or had a similar experience.
Any thoughts are helpful (including telling me I'm not crazy to think the report was bogus).
Thanks all,
MamaKit
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,163
I would not have any questions for the counselor.
You are divorcing, you get to be DONE.
I understand your concern for your kids, but at this time he is just going thru the motions of court mandated orders, he is still in denial, doesn't sound like he is ready to get honest and embrace his recovery.
Sending you good thoughts and support.
You are divorcing, you get to be DONE.
I understand your concern for your kids, but at this time he is just going thru the motions of court mandated orders, he is still in denial, doesn't sound like he is ready to get honest and embrace his recovery.
Sending you good thoughts and support.
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
If you disagree with his stated intake of alcohol (or any other detail) it would make sense to get your rebuttal on the record, whether the counsellor believes you or not. That may be important in the future is access arrangements are challenged.
Today is a New Day
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,766
Originally Posted by FeelingGreat 
If you disagree with his stated intake of alcohol (or any other detail) it would make sense to get your rebuttal on the record, whether the counsellor believes you or not. That may be important in the future is access arrangements are challenged.
Just something on record to show in writing that you disagree with the report, so if he makes an attempt for something more custodally that what you feel comfortable with there's a record that you disagreed with the report (so he can't use the report against you later saying you implicitly agreed since you didn't protest - "She agreed with it then, but disagrees now that it'll get her something!")
I would NOT expect the counselor to believe you nor would I expect any positive changes from him as a result - just a statement in the file that you disagree with the information he provided. This isn't for your benefit or his, it's to help protect the kids in case you'd need it.
If there's something recorded elsewhere, of course, that already officially states you disagree with the information he provided the counselor, then calling isn't important.
Getting there!!
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
The incompetency in our "system" is frightening. Was the psychologist court appointed? I would certainly put it on record that you disagree with the evaluation. If you have a therapist, I would ask her how to contend with this report.
I have dealt with the incompetency. It's infuriating to say the least. I remember we had to pay $1,500 for my husband's exaw psych evaluation and we weren't even allowed to read it. She refused to allow him to speak to his children. They were 6 and 8 at the time. When he called, they were always sleeping, in the shower, outside playing, etc. When it was finally addressed by the female judge appointed, she recommended he read to them every night via phone. What?? He can't even say hello and she wanted him to read to them?? Needless to say, that never happened. It took 2 yrs, a lot of work, emotions and $$, but we finally won custody and she eventually lost her parental rights because of her addiction.
Hang in there. I finally realized stepping back, finding my balance and asking God for guidance and wisdom help me reach my goal with peace
I have dealt with the incompetency. It's infuriating to say the least. I remember we had to pay $1,500 for my husband's exaw psych evaluation and we weren't even allowed to read it. She refused to allow him to speak to his children. They were 6 and 8 at the time. When he called, they were always sleeping, in the shower, outside playing, etc. When it was finally addressed by the female judge appointed, she recommended he read to them every night via phone. What?? He can't even say hello and she wanted him to read to them?? Needless to say, that never happened. It took 2 yrs, a lot of work, emotions and $$, but we finally won custody and she eventually lost her parental rights because of her addiction.
Hang in there. I finally realized stepping back, finding my balance and asking God for guidance and wisdom help me reach my goal with peace
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Real World
Posts: 729
Very important....
Be very careful to avoid getting emotional or even remotely dramatic in your description of his drinking. That sound condescending - those who've been through the court BS know how frustrating it is trying not to blurt out "********!". At the more outrageous lies.
Just correct the quantity and frequency and stick to words like "concerned".
Hang in there, I know it sucks, you are doing great.
Be very careful to avoid getting emotional or even remotely dramatic in your description of his drinking. That sound condescending - those who've been through the court BS know how frustrating it is trying not to blurt out "********!". At the more outrageous lies.
Just correct the quantity and frequency and stick to words like "concerned".
Hang in there, I know it sucks, you are doing great.
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,243
Do have evidence that would show that he is misrepresenting the facts? Do you have receipts from credit cards showing he consumed a lot more alcohol than he is admitting to?
The best way to torpedo lies is to present what lawyers call "bad facts" as judges and courts like those.
In family law it often is a case of "he said she said" because in a home there are few to no witnesses to the dysfunction. That is why you read posters all the time to say document, document, document!
Are there any other witnesses to his drinking behaviors and consequences? If so, getting their affadavits, testimony or input to the psychologist of record could be helpful.
And I do agree that your making sure that the court is fully aware that you in no way agree with his creative account of the history of his drinking must be documented fully. Use care and make sure you have proressionals helping you with this action.
I am not sure you should talk to the counselor without clear direction of your counsel.
Are you kids being evaluated too? A good counselor should be able to find out if kids are impacted by a parents drinking... not always... but many times this is the case.
Sorry you are going through this.
Prayers your way... hang in there.
The best way to torpedo lies is to present what lawyers call "bad facts" as judges and courts like those.
In family law it often is a case of "he said she said" because in a home there are few to no witnesses to the dysfunction. That is why you read posters all the time to say document, document, document!
Are there any other witnesses to his drinking behaviors and consequences? If so, getting their affadavits, testimony or input to the psychologist of record could be helpful.
And I do agree that your making sure that the court is fully aware that you in no way agree with his creative account of the history of his drinking must be documented fully. Use care and make sure you have proressionals helping you with this action.
I am not sure you should talk to the counselor without clear direction of your counsel.
Are you kids being evaluated too? A good counselor should be able to find out if kids are impacted by a parents drinking... not always... but many times this is the case.
Sorry you are going through this.
Prayers your way... hang in there.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 138
Originally Posted by PohsFriend
Very important....
Be very careful to avoid getting emotional or even remotely dramatic in your description of his drinking. That sound condescending - those who've been through the court BS know how frustrating it is trying not to blurt out "********!". At the more outrageous lies.
Just correct the quantity and frequency and stick to words like "concerned".
Hang in there, I know it sucks, you are doing great.
Be very careful to avoid getting emotional or even remotely dramatic in your description of his drinking. That sound condescending - those who've been through the court BS know how frustrating it is trying not to blurt out "********!". At the more outrageous lies.
Just correct the quantity and frequency and stick to words like "concerned".
Hang in there, I know it sucks, you are doing great.
Very true...!!!
You need to be calm and undramatic. Give specifics in a calm fashion. You're the sane one, remember!
Give specific examples, with dates, with details (things that got broken, words that were said, witnesses that were present, etc) If you have any records....emails, text messages, phone messages, alcohol receipts, pics of empty bottles, debit card/credit card proof of excessive alcohol purchases, etc, provide those as well.
I wouldn't be surprised if your AH changes his mind about having you talk to the psych (and what an idiot that person is!! Quality therapists KNOW that A's lie, lie, lie!!!).
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
My immediate thought was not to touch it with a 10' pole. I can see the value in correcting the record though. If you want to do that I would make an unemotional statement, in writing, and leave it at that.
What you say can and will be used against you and all that. Writing gives you the ability to edit and be articulate in whatever it is you want to say and you don't open the door to questions being asked of you.
What you say can and will be used against you and all that. Writing gives you the ability to edit and be articulate in whatever it is you want to say and you don't open the door to questions being asked of you.
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
I am with Thumper here, too, that talking with his therapist isn't going to change that person's perspective nor make you feel better. Just write your rebuttal and be done with it. You know your truth. He is so firmly ensconced in denial; nothing you say will matter to him anyway.
My exhusband also said he wasn't sure he "loved me". That he was under the influence when we married and not practicing good judgment. What kind of person says crap like that to another person? Oh yeah - one who is trying to weasel out of a commitment.
Take good care,
~T
My exhusband also said he wasn't sure he "loved me". That he was under the influence when we married and not practicing good judgment. What kind of person says crap like that to another person? Oh yeah - one who is trying to weasel out of a commitment.
Take good care,
~T
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Real World
Posts: 729
What thumper said!
Make your addition to the record a written one, offer no opinions or judgments.
Of course the additions you make with specific examples and names/numbers of anyone RELIABLY CALM AND COLLECTED, who can verify the information might just follow the checklist of alcoholism progression - blackouts, missed work, relationships affected, drinking at odd times, hiding it....
Much like the "don't just do something, stand there!" approach you can be far more effective in making the point if you don't add any commentary and let the dumbass counselor connect the dots - just give them the dots in the right order.
Some of the family court industry's parasitic hanger are real pros who care, some could not find their own ass with both hands, a map and a YouTube instructional video.
Judges with experience can usually read between the lines and a protective order is the holy grail of items to have on your side. If a family court judge makes a ruling that contradicts a protective order and anyone gets harmed they are DONE as a judge. Judges like expediency and they are risk averse (risk to themselves).
The better job you can do of Hanson them a set of unassailable facts and minimal comment that paints the facts clearly the easier it is for them to rule correctly. Just remember that they want to trust that the primary is committed to including the other parent and is not seeking revenge via the kids. OUR kids, not my kids. I am concerned that he's not able to assess his drinking honestly sounds better than "that lying motherf---- said WHAT!?!?!?"
Therapists reports are just one piece.
Was this court appointed or did he pick this person? If its a rent-a-shrink he picked out then check their credentials (state licensing website should have this). If he/she is not qualified to diagnose then you can eviscerate them on the stand.
My DDs mom put the man hating social worker from the mental hospital she was in on the stand to 'diagnose' me. Even if she had the training she had never met me and had no consent from me so making her look stupid took about 4 questions. Don't fall for the presumption that someone is an expert, check it out, know what is required to make certain diagnoses and hammer them sweetly if Rey stick one row over the line.
If your addition to the record is written and written sans emotion the counselor can make no comment on your demeanor and can't ask you questions. If they say you seemed angry and vengeful in person you can't refute it, if they say your writing was you can hand them that factually accurate, detached list of facts and ask then what's so irrational.
It sucks but understand the system, they try to paint men as dangerous monsters and women as hysterical, emotionally unstable nitwits, aka nuts and sluts.
Take a deep breath - protective order in the hand is worth a dozen counselors in the bush :-)
Make your addition to the record a written one, offer no opinions or judgments.
Of course the additions you make with specific examples and names/numbers of anyone RELIABLY CALM AND COLLECTED, who can verify the information might just follow the checklist of alcoholism progression - blackouts, missed work, relationships affected, drinking at odd times, hiding it....
Much like the "don't just do something, stand there!" approach you can be far more effective in making the point if you don't add any commentary and let the dumbass counselor connect the dots - just give them the dots in the right order.
Some of the family court industry's parasitic hanger are real pros who care, some could not find their own ass with both hands, a map and a YouTube instructional video.
Judges with experience can usually read between the lines and a protective order is the holy grail of items to have on your side. If a family court judge makes a ruling that contradicts a protective order and anyone gets harmed they are DONE as a judge. Judges like expediency and they are risk averse (risk to themselves).
The better job you can do of Hanson them a set of unassailable facts and minimal comment that paints the facts clearly the easier it is for them to rule correctly. Just remember that they want to trust that the primary is committed to including the other parent and is not seeking revenge via the kids. OUR kids, not my kids. I am concerned that he's not able to assess his drinking honestly sounds better than "that lying motherf---- said WHAT!?!?!?"
Therapists reports are just one piece.
Was this court appointed or did he pick this person? If its a rent-a-shrink he picked out then check their credentials (state licensing website should have this). If he/she is not qualified to diagnose then you can eviscerate them on the stand.
My DDs mom put the man hating social worker from the mental hospital she was in on the stand to 'diagnose' me. Even if she had the training she had never met me and had no consent from me so making her look stupid took about 4 questions. Don't fall for the presumption that someone is an expert, check it out, know what is required to make certain diagnoses and hammer them sweetly if Rey stick one row over the line.
If your addition to the record is written and written sans emotion the counselor can make no comment on your demeanor and can't ask you questions. If they say you seemed angry and vengeful in person you can't refute it, if they say your writing was you can hand them that factually accurate, detached list of facts and ask then what's so irrational.
It sucks but understand the system, they try to paint men as dangerous monsters and women as hysterical, emotionally unstable nitwits, aka nuts and sluts.
Take a deep breath - protective order in the hand is worth a dozen counselors in the bush :-)
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 138
that talking with his therapist isn't going to change that person's perspective
not necessarily true. My sister has been a therapist for over 20 years. She says that she often changes her opinion after speaking with a spouse. Frankly, it's not unusual for therapists to do this....hearing the "other side" often provides a very different perspective.
This therapist already knows that she's dealing with a habitual drinker, even if she's not yet determined that he's an A (for some unknown reason...maybe he's told her that he's only been doing this regular drinking for less than a year or so.???)
Hey, it might also be interesting to ask this therapist how SHE defines an alcoholic. It sounds like she either has a very hard definition or she's just been misled.
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Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
Legal processes are about proof and you will hurt your case with emotional displays. You've turned it over to a lawyer and I hope you continue to do so. You must stay as calm and detatched as possible to succeed.
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Thank you everyone for your helpful responses. I've been able to read posts on my phone over the holidays but have not had a moment to be near the computer.
I think I will try and get something on the record stating that his presentation of his drinking behavior was not at all what I remember or how I ould present it. I'm not sure how I will do that yet- but will rely on the advice of my attorney for whom I'm developing a great trust. She's already stated during mediation that we view this evaluation/report as one-sided.
So far I've been very good at staying calm and factual. All of my communications (we only communicate by email) have been matter of fact and professional. He's been desperately trying to push my buttons but it has not worked yet.
He's written me a couple of emails since Christmas Day that are exposing those buttons and I'm finding it hard to not react. So, I've just waited to respond. Some parts of the emails are ridiculous and I will igonore them. Coming here first gets me centered and I feel I will maintain my distance and unemotional communication style.
Again,
Thank you all
Happy New Year
I think I will try and get something on the record stating that his presentation of his drinking behavior was not at all what I remember or how I ould present it. I'm not sure how I will do that yet- but will rely on the advice of my attorney for whom I'm developing a great trust. She's already stated during mediation that we view this evaluation/report as one-sided.
So far I've been very good at staying calm and factual. All of my communications (we only communicate by email) have been matter of fact and professional. He's been desperately trying to push my buttons but it has not worked yet.
He's written me a couple of emails since Christmas Day that are exposing those buttons and I'm finding it hard to not react. So, I've just waited to respond. Some parts of the emails are ridiculous and I will igonore them. Coming here first gets me centered and I feel I will maintain my distance and unemotional communication style.
Again,
Thank you all
Happy New Year
box of chocolates
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,013
Wowwwwwww!
I dont know your soon to be x but knowing alcoholics even just reading that sounded like
Complete and utter bs!
The counselor....no offense or offense w.e sounds incompetent.
Sounds like an alcoholic justfying his drinking...qoute (he only drinks when hes depressed or upset)
Maybe im wrong maybe im right but the he only drinks when the kids are asleep.
On. A work night that may bevtrue for my ah but when hes off..pssh! Might be different for your soon to be x but for what ive experienced alcoholics dont "monitor "their drinking.
I would go and give that counselor a piece of my mind ...in a nice non hostile civilized type of way of course lol and ide ask her if she has experience with alcoholism?
Because if so...it does not show.
I dont know your soon to be x but knowing alcoholics even just reading that sounded like
Complete and utter bs!
The counselor....no offense or offense w.e sounds incompetent.
Sounds like an alcoholic justfying his drinking...qoute (he only drinks when hes depressed or upset)
Maybe im wrong maybe im right but the he only drinks when the kids are asleep.
On. A work night that may bevtrue for my ah but when hes off..pssh! Might be different for your soon to be x but for what ive experienced alcoholics dont "monitor "their drinking.
I would go and give that counselor a piece of my mind ...in a nice non hostile civilized type of way of course lol and ide ask her if she has experience with alcoholism?
Because if so...it does not show.
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Thread Starter
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Thislonelygirl,
Thanks - agreed about the counselor's report. My STBAXH mostly drank in the afternoon, just before the boys got home from school. He would then ramp it up after I got home when he knew he could really get a serious drunk on and hide himself from all of us in the basement. Sometimes he would just fall asleep after dinner on the couch. He'd wake up at the boys' bedtime and then head down to the basement for round two. Meaning, he drank any time and all the time! The afternoons before I would get home from work were pretty awful for my boys and I never drove home without a huge pit in my stomach about what I was going to come home to.
He also never needed an excuse of anger or depression. Any reason would do. After all, he is an A.
Hugs and Happy New Year
MamaKit
Thanks - agreed about the counselor's report. My STBAXH mostly drank in the afternoon, just before the boys got home from school. He would then ramp it up after I got home when he knew he could really get a serious drunk on and hide himself from all of us in the basement. Sometimes he would just fall asleep after dinner on the couch. He'd wake up at the boys' bedtime and then head down to the basement for round two. Meaning, he drank any time and all the time! The afternoons before I would get home from work were pretty awful for my boys and I never drove home without a huge pit in my stomach about what I was going to come home to.
He also never needed an excuse of anger or depression. Any reason would do. After all, he is an A.
Hugs and Happy New Year
MamaKit
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,407
You're smart to not let him push your buttons. I know from my experience the calmer I got, the more desperate he got to pull me back into his chaos. If you haven't already, I would suggest making a file and keeping all his emails in the file so they're handy if you need them for evidence.
Wishing you hope and peace in 2013.
Wishing you hope and peace in 2013.
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