FindingPeace1

So, uhh....hi!
I have this friend. He and I developed a friendship over my divorce and his separation from his son's mother (not a strong start for anything else!).
We are nice friends. Hang out occasionally. Spend too much time talking about his ex and my ex. Bitching. Commiserating. Comparing their denial and alcoholism.

He has lots of great qualities. Great dad. Plays banjo and guitar. Sings. Likes bluegrass. Cooks. Bikes, hikes, skis, backpacks.
I can tell he likes me.

The thing is...
Well, number one, I'm so newly divorced I am a mess around relationships.
Number two, his ex is supposedly a lying, delusional, bipolar nutbag.

Now, this may be true. OR he may the liar. I don't have ANY reason to believe he's not telling the truth, but its scary!
I admit, I am burned from a liar-liar-pants-on-fire ex husband, so I am GUNSHY!! Even with a friendship.

It seems like your advice would be that even the fact that he was all messed up in a relationship with someone like that and swore she just changed unexpectedly ...that that would be a red flag for even a friendship.
Not that I wasn't married to someone that I feel like changed...but I can now see that I was in denial.
He hasn't gone there.

So, I think it sounds like a bad idea to even consider it...but I just realized the other day that there is some attraction...

I am kinda confused about what end is up.

Solid advice?

(sheepish grin) peace

akrasia

There's that Yeats poem: "She bid me take love easy, like the waves upon the sand."

My advice? Just take it easy and enjoy his company and friendship.

You kind of answered your own question on whether his demonising his ex is a red flag. Yeah, if a guy spent all his time dissing his ex to me, it would be a turn-off. *But* then again, as you mention, you're both fresh out of relationships so the wounds are raw--maybe he thinks you of all people would understand!

Banjo-playing and singing sounds nice. Just enjoy his company.

(If I were your bossy big sister I would say, "And don't rush into any physical stuff!" But I'm not, so I won't.)

FindingPeace1

Thanks.

My question is, which damns me in the process, can he be a good, stable human if he was knee deep in the crazies and didn't notice? I mean, I didn't...
I was in denial.
So was he in his relationship, I guess...
but he doesn't really own his own denial...
and doesn't that mean he is not too stable himself?
But doesn't that mean I'm not either...
Can he be okay to trust?

I'm shaky about trust nowadays.

akrasia

Okay to trust with what? Your entire life? Your heart and soul? Who on earth knows whether he's a "good stable human"? I've no idea and neither do you.

The good news is that it doesn't matter! You don't need to sound his depths for all these profound ineffable truths if you're just enjoying a bit of bluegrass music with him or shooting the breeze.

Just take it easy. He's a chum.

If you find yourself getting a bit weirded out, or if he's pushing for this great intimacy, maybe hang out with another chum for a while.

Pelican

Need to know which end is up on his previous relationship? ask to see his divorce papers.

If I had considered that as an option when I met my AXH, I would have seen that their divorce papers stated he was not to drink alcohol during visitation. (Giant Red Flag) I also would have seen that she got an enormous chunk of his income in support. (Red Flag)

I realize that some people deny their part in the dysfunction of a relationship. I try to own my part in the demise of my relationship. I see you also own your part too. Maybe he is not there yet, but I would be cautious about a relationship with someone who can't take their own inventory.

About trusting another person with your feelings:

I try to keep in mind what LaTeeDa once posted about trusting partners -
"It's not about trusting them,
It's about trusting yourself enough to walk away, if needed"

Peace and Hugs!

LifeRecovery

My therapist helped me some with this last week.

This goes for friendships and other types of relationships.

It is not if people are "healthy" and where they are supposed to be, but if they are willing to be working on their stuff.

I struggle sometimes to determine if someone is "healthy" because that might be a judgement that is mine overlying them. However their are behaviors that I can watch for if people are working on their stuff.

1. Are their words and actions consistent?
2. Are they willing to own up to their part?
3. Given enough time are the willing to call me on my stuff, and how do they respond if I call them on theirs? Of course keeping in mind Say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean
4. What about them makes them attractive to me? (For me who struggles with codependency prior to living with an alcoholic, sometimes what attracts me is really the most unhealthy part).

Finally there is always time....more will always be revealed.

It helped me to realize some of these pieces were already in play for me....I just had to listen to myself...and trust myself enough to what I already knew.

MsGrace

sage advice, from one and all. I'm nowhere NEAR considering anything other than female friends...but one day, I may (or may not) consider another relationship. I believe I would follow all this great advice AND take enormous amounts of time to really see who the person is. I won't be fooled my ME again...too willing to overlook red flags, too anxious to live the fairy tale...too fast to make such life changing decisions, in spite of a ton of common sense that would say to wait...wait, take it sloooowwwww. It's my judgement and decisions I need to most work on. Then I think it will be easier to see more clearly who someone is...rather than my rose colored glasses of what I wish/hope they would be.

Sotiredofitall

"It's not about trusting them,
It's about trusting yourself enough to walk away, if needed"


That about sums it up. LOVE, love love that!!

NYCDoglvr

After getting burned a few times I learned to listen more than talk because everyone reveals who they are. I paid attention to red flags. I also learned to ask "is this what I want?" instead of trying to please someone else. Of course it's a process but one that is wonderfully empowering. Consider this: someone who constantly disses on an ex-spouse is still emotionally involved with that person, even if it's only in a negative way.

Tuffgirl

FP - your post makes me smile. It's ok to be asking these questions. But as others have pointed out here, only time will tell anyway. The real question to ask is do you trust yourself to handle this right now? To do the right thing? Make the right decisions?

Remember to keep on your side of the street and focus on your own feelings and motives. What he does is on him and time will reveal all truths with or without your intervention.

Go have a good time with a fun guy! Let the rest happen as it may on its own time.

Willybluedog

Dear finding peace,

I was in your shoes, I was in the final stages of divorce from a psycho, I met a woman who had been married to a verbally abusive husband and then moved on to steroid freak abusive boyfriend.

We both were gun-shy, we did not really know how to be with "normal people", we took it slow, spent time together doing fun things, museums, park, music, etc.

What we found was that it was just really nice (although very weird at first) to have a no drama relationship. We have been together 15 years and our love has only grown stronger, we are so happy to have found each other after what we had both been through with others.

My advice would be take it really slow, don't jump into anything sexual for a good while, observe how he treats his kids, and when you really are ready to know what he is all about take a long car trip or go camping, nothing like a map and some time in a tent to see the real person.

Best of luck to you,

Bill

FindingPeace1

This is wonderful, wonderful stuff!
And Bill, I think my dry spell post-separation IS clouding my judgement. LOL!

THis is gold for me:
I would be cautious about a relationship with someone who can't take their own inventory.

More gold:
"It's not about trusting them,
It's about trusting yourself enough to walk away, if needed"

Nother great question: What about them makes them attractive to me?

More greatness:
Remember to keep on your side of the street and focus on your own feelings and motives. What he does is on him and time will reveal all truths with or without your intervention.

This makes me feel (she breathes out in a woosh) more at ease.
Less worry and spinning and more looking inward.
What's inward is attraction AND unease.

So last time I saw him, he gave me a kiss on the cheek at the goodbye hug (ack!).
Do I talk to him and set a boundary or...?

akrasia

Well, there are all sorts of ways to gently set physical boundaries if you don't want a hug/kiss from a friend, right? We've all been there. Or just say, "You're great, but it's too soon for that, for me."

That "ack" feeling you're getting sounds like you're feeling anxious about your own boundaries.

Maybe hang out with another chum for a while?

lillamy

That's where I'm at with the new man in my life as well. We've known each other for 30 years, we both came from abusive marriages, and we've so far done really well with complete honesty and no mind games, and we're both loving it.

One thing I have noticed, though, is that when you come out of a dysfunctional relationship and enter into a more functional one -- you'll notice baggage when you least expect it. I still at times notice myself "waiting for the other shoe to drop." He's the same way. At times, we find ourselves expecting the other person to act like our ex would have in a situation.

But the thing is we talk about it. About everything. And I think that's the only way I would ever have gotten involved with a man again -- someone I know inside and out, someone who knows me inside and out, we both know what the other person has been through, and we're honest even when it's painful.

Cyranoak

Easy does it, don't assume, and trust but verify.

Good luck (not just with him, but in general)!

Cyranoak

stella27

Hello FP1!!!
What an exciting problem to be having! He like you and you like him. What now?

I separated mid 09. Divorced October 2010.

Dated a little bit - like dipping a toe in the water - in 2011.

In 2012, I am finally ready to date a little, and I have talked to my friends who aren't my BFF's, but other parents at my children's school to let them know that I would be interested in meeting any available men they might know and like.

It's hard to be where you are and where I am, but also thrilling and exciting. Like coming out of a cave into the bright sunshine and sometimes it's just all too much.

Just wanted to say how nice it is that you have a friend. Enjoy him and move slowly.

blwninthewind

Trust...
I have a hard time with this.

I really can't trust people because of my OWN unrealistic expectations so I'm working on that.
otherwise I think of it like loaning money.
IF I can't afford to lose what I'm 'loaning' I won't do it.
Not yet...
maybe someday.
I however am cautious. Overly so. I don't need a man with tons of 'baggage'...whether it be addiciton problems, family problems or nutso ex problems.
I don't need that at all!!!...neither do you, my friend.

fourmaggie

what a wonderful quote..never heard that before...and so GET IT!!