MaybeCalifornia

And that's a big part of the problem for me.

It's very easy for me to be swayed by the "good times". In the past year they've been so few & far between, I've been even more enthusiastic about embracing them, and him, when they do happen. This past week has been SUCH a roller coaster- we've had a couple really low spots, but the good times have been especially good.

I see that my husband has been trying to make some surface changes. He's still drinking, but less often (maybe 3 days this past week instead of everyday) and not as much (4-6 beers instead of 10-12). He's also making an effort to spend more time w/ me & our daughter, and he's trying to be more positive and pleasant.

I'm not so naive that I think this is an attempt at sobriety or recovery. He IS still drinking (and denying he has a problem) and the days he drinks are still miserable. But I really want to be optimistic, and I want to believe that maybe, just maybe, he is slowly opening his eyes. Maybe this is the first teeny-tiny baby step in the right direction. Is that false hope? Is that the codie in me speaking?

And of course there's that other voice inside my head, the one that speaks up during the good times and says "You know this isn't going to last. He's going to drink again, and when he does you'll be right back to where you started. Don't get your hopes up." Then I feel guilty for being negative. I can't tell when I'm being pessimistic, and when I'm just being realistic.

I want him to know that I really do appreciate the fact that he's at least behaving like a reasonable human being and that I've really enjoyed the time we've been spending together without alcohol, then I wonder why I have to praise him for not being a raging jerk. More codie thinking, right?

So how do I keep myself more centered? How do I resist the 'emotional seduction' of the good times and stay realistic?

LifeRecovery

It helped me when I started tracking his behaviors...not his words. That helped me to stay in reality and not in fantasy land.

In all honesty it was my H behaviors that bothered me...not the person himself. Often the behaviors had a pattern and I really started trusting myself when i really got a handle on the patterns.

dollydo

All I can say is that his disease is a progressive one. Cutting back for a period of time is not
going to stop what will happen next, as time goes by his drinking will get worse. Not my rules, just how it works. There is no cure for addiction, it is just as matter of whether he is sober or not, that's it.

If you want to hang your hat on the brief moments of his attempts to control his drinking, it is your choice. It is your fantasy time, enjoy it while it lasts, then back to reality you will be forced to go.

Are you attending Alanon meetings? Have you read any books on codependency? I would suggest that you do both.

Keep posting, it will help.

Willybluedog

Hello Maybecalifornia, welcome to SR, we are glad to have you here, I hope you will read the stickies and consider going to al-anon.

So your husband is only drinking and causing chaos 3 days a week, that is 42.8% of the time, as the child of an alcoholic myself I can tell you this is negatively affecting your daughter, she is learning that this is "normal behavior" is that what you want for her?

Quit worrying about being centered and think about protecting you kid, I don't mean to be harsh or a jerk, but you need to think this through, alcoholics don't change unless they hit bottom, my mom is dying from destruction of her heart muscle as a result of her drinking, it does not phase her, she will never, ever change, I wish my dad had divorced her so we could have gotten out of that situation, to this day I hold him responsible for leaving us in that situation!

I hope you get it figured out, best of luck to you and your daughter.

Bill

cslaurie

I understand completely what you are saying-i have had these same exact feelings myself. It's hard, you feel like you want to be happy during the "good" times, but know you will again be hurt in the "bad" times...just keep working on you, for you & your daughter...

marie1960

I can remember when A curbed his drinking.

Life seemed great.... I actually was convinced that I was wrong for thinking he was an alkie........

IT WAS THE CALM BEFORE THE STORM!!!!!!!!!!

XXXXXXXXXX

I have had the same feelings too. Problem with me was, when it was bad it was unbearably miserable, and eventually there were so many days between the miserable and the good.

I hope the best for you and your family. Glad you are being realistic as well as optimistic.

skippernlilg

These wild swings from very, very good to very, very bad are very common in the household of an alcoholic. It's such a gradual change, at first, that it's difficult to recognize the degree of 'good' and the degree of 'bad' and the time between becomes longer.

If you haven't read the AA Big Book, I recommend that one so you can understand the progression of the disease.

I'm an ACoA and barely got out of my parent's house alive. Then I grew way up and didn't see the love of my life struggling with the very same awful disease until it almost destroyed my little family (again).

Getting myself to Al-anon, reading, reading, and more reading equipped me to make some sound decisions so that I can stand on steady ground today. I hope you find some real peace soon so that it doesn't feel like such a roller coaster to you and your little girl.

MaybeCalifornia

Thank you so much for reading/replying. I appreciate it, really.

I've just recently started attending Al-anon meetings, and my daughter is going to Alateen. It's still very new to us but has been great so far. I've also started reading about both alcoholism & codependency, and I'm learning a lot. My Mother-in-law has decided to start going to Al-anon as well.

All I really have to go on are his behaviors & actions, because we never really talk about his drinking. I've never gotten remorseful apologies 'the day after' and he has never made any declarations or promises about quitting, cutting back, controlling it, anything. We haven't discussed what's been going on lately. Believe me, there's a reason I called them "surface changes" in the first place- I don't think there's anything truly profound or meaningful in them.

Willybluedog- I hear what you're saying, I really do. I have thought about the things you wrote many times. "Centered" is probably a poor word choice. I'm just starting to understand how deeply my emotions are wrapped up in his. I spend a lot of time and energy reacting and adjusting myself to his state of mind. It works both ways, my feelings get pulled up with his on the good days, and dragged down on the bad. I don't want him dominating my feelings either way, and I want to put a stop to it. I want to, but I don't know how. I'm learning.
But see, I'm not willing (or maybe just not ready? I don't know.) to accept that he will never change. Maybe he will, maybe he won't. I really want to believe that his situation is not hopeless, and that he can have a healthy life again if he really wants it and works for it. He's not there yet. I hope he will be someday.
And don't worry about being harsh, I appreciate your honesty!

jamaicamecrazy

This post hits close to home. In my world of challenging behaviors we look at things in 3 ways. Intensity, frequency and duration of behaviors. Although there may be changes that seem like progress, the behaviors are still there. You need to decide how much you are willing to live with. I did the same thing. I tried to focus on the good times. Just be happy and live in the moment of when we were having fun. Until I started to wonder if this was enough for me. But this is what happened. He was not drinking more beer or more often. He believed it meant he was in control. He was making improvements. However the times he was sober were getting harder and harder for him to handle. His whole personality changed. He started to lie, he became verbally abusive and threatened physical abuse. He started to not care about things that used to be important to him. He "checked out" as a partner and a parent. I know many of those things are symptoms of depression but he was alienating himself from everyone in the family, blaming everyone else for his misery.
I still did not know about "detaching with love" and struggled for several years with what was enough for me.
Go to Al Anon if you are not already doing so. It will teach you to take care of yourself.
I wish you well and don't want to discourage you from trying to live a life that is acceptable to you. This is just my own experience. Good luck to you.

Willybluedog

Maybe, thanks for not getting hacked at me, I get a little passionate about this subject, there are so many of us here that are dealing with the scars of alcoholic parents, please read the Adult Children of Alcoholics Board especially the stickies at the top of the page.

I want your husband to get better, but I also know that if he won't "man up" and admit he is an alcoholic then he is a long long way from getting better. Please stick with al-anon and think about going to family and individual counseling, shield your daughter from his bad behavior, can she go somewhere on his drink nights?

I hope so much that it all works out for you, if you need to talk, need a shoulder or a hug I will be here.

Bill

dollydo

You do not have to be there in a front row seat for him to recover. And most important your children should not.

If he gets healthy, seeks a strong recovery program and is sober for at least a year, you can then sit in the front row and watch his actions.

I agree with Willie, read all the stickies. I too, am the child of an alcoholic, as a child i saw and heard everything, I carried my childhood into adulthood. I internalized my hurt and confusion, to this day, I wish someone would have done the right thing for me and my brother, we were the true victims, in this toxic enviorment.

When you are ready to face the elephant in the L/R you will, my best...Dolly

MaybeCalifornia

skippernlilg- I have not read the Big Book, but that is a good suggestion. I'll definitely put it on my reading list. I'm trying to read as much as I can, without getting overwhelmed by it all. It's delicate balance. Thanks!

Willy- I've been poking around some of the other boards, but hadn't thought to read the ACOA board. That's a good suggestion, also, and I will check it out, thanks. I'm also seriously thinking about counseling for my daughter & myself (fairly certain H won't be interested at this point); I'm going to pull out our insurance info to figure out what our options are.
My daughter's interactions with him are actually very limited- he works 3rd shift so he's on a very different schedule than us. He typically drinks during the day while she's at school, then he sleeps until at least dinner time, usually later. It's actually not unusual for them to go several days in a row without ever seeing each other. But yes, on the occasions when he does drink while she's home, I typically have her go elsewhere. Usually with my Mom or my sister, because they know the situation & I don't have to explain.

jamaicamecrazy- Thank you for sharing, I definitely see some parallels between your story & my own. I know he is dealing with depression. He had issues with that before he started drinking, or rather, before his drinking got out of control. He's become a lot more withdrawn & isolated over the past year, and occasionally talks about self-harm. It makes me really sad and scared for him & really kicks up my "I have to save him!" thinking. I'm working hard on that, it's a Big Issue for me. I'm a Peacemaker personality to the extreme & want to believe there's a reasonable solution/compromise in every conflict.

And thanks again to all the rest of you, for taking the time to read/comment. I've read all of your posts and appreciate your sharing & feedback. It's sad the way we sometimes need others to tell us what we already know, right?

dollydo

Your daughter knows that something is not right, if she does not hear or see it all the time she senses it.

Keep reading, keep posting, we are here for you.

Hopeworks

Welcome to the boards.

I am also ACOA and strongly recommend that you and your daughter seek out a good counselor who is very knowlegable on addiction issues.

Your child is at risk for several reasons. Alcoholism is biologically heritable and her childhood with an A parent puts her at risk for being psychogically drawn to addict/alcoholic as a mate later in life.

Children learn what they live ... you want to model what you want her to emulate in her own life choices and counseling and alanon/alateen are HIGHLY recommended.

You are on a good path and in our thoughts and prayers.

Eight Ball

Hi MaybeCalifornia

I unknowingly brought up two daughters in an alcoholic home - both would tell you that their upbringing has been far from normal and one has been to counseling and the other is considering counseling.

They had a great childhood, all things considered. We were a loving family, they were well loved and we enjoyed plenty of family holidays and they never went without. My AH and I had plenty of rows though, I would ask him to leave occasionally and then take him back, I would sleep in the spare bedroom for weeks at an end after one of his spells, we would be hot and cold. I would be hot and cold and have no doubt this would have been picked up by my girls. We moved so many times 'as things will be better if we move', including to two different countries. Its no wonder my girls see there upbringing as far from normal.

My AH of 23yrs alcoholism was getting progressive along with his negative behaviors and as a young adult, my youngest daughter, about 15/16yrs at the time, started to have her dad snap at her over silly things. She didn't like to be in the house on her own with him, particularly if he had been drinking which was everyday! One day, my daughter (18yrs) said to me that her dad was being verbally abusive/bullying with her and me and that she didn't have to put up with it, she didn't feel safe in her own home and that she was planning to leave and wondered why I put up with him and his negative drinking behaviors. That was the first time I realised that I was being verbally abused and around the time I had a name for what was our up and down, merry-go-round family, we had all been through - alcoholism.

Today, I have two great daughters, they are amazing but I never taught them that they are worthy of having someone treat them with respect, not to verbally abuse them and stay. Not to put up with half of the crazy things my AH alcoholic behavior caused. Sure, I have been a lovely, loving mum but I know now how much I really let them down by not stepping up as a strong woman role model for them both.

My daughters have a higher chance today of marrying an alcoholic or being an alcoholic themselves, living in an active alcoholic home and my own behaviors will have contributed to that.

I was a verbally abused wife with an alcoholic husband, and I was sick. I didn't realise how sick I had become until I found Al-anon, therapy and SR. I got healthier in body, mind and spirit and I did leave my AH eventually, but not until they were grown adults and had both left home.

I mentioned to someone once, many years ago, that I considered myself to be a good mum and they said we dont really find out how well we did until they are grown up. Its so true.

I am pleased to hear that your daughter is going to Al-teen. I am sure this will help her reinforce some positive outcomes to living with an active alcoholic dad and help minimize the damage this can cause. Keep going to Al-anon for yourself too, keep reading and educating yourself - knowledge is power. Oh and remember that your life is important, you are important and lifes too short for a part time good thing when you can have a full time good thing.

nodaybut2day

The fact that things were "pretty good" at times is what kept me in an unhealthy marriage for too long. Eventually, the pretty good times became shorter and shorter; they were the breaks between the horribly dramatic and painful times.

After having left, it dawned on me that I DESERVED a relationship where I wasn't minimizing the impact of the bad times with the good times. I deserve to have a normal relationship where I'm not constantly looking to save/help someone, or walk on eggshells when that person is self-destructing. The same can be said of you and your daughter...the rollercoaster can and does get exhausting.

m1k3

Welcome to the forum. This is a great place to vent, get support and to share experience strength and hope. One little phrase really helped me with this issue.

Hope clouds observation.

Very simple but oh so true. When you are looking at life through the eyes of hope it is easy to miss the reality of the situation or to make excuses for bad behavior.

I found it was hard to look at things as they really are. If I didn't it meant I was still trapped in my own denial on what was really going on. If I don't see the reality then I won't work on changing me and nothing changes if nothing changes. Since the only thing I could change was me once I accepted reality my options became clear.

Your friend,

jessiec

Wanted to thank you so much for posting this, and thank everyone else for their insights. I'm in a very similar situation (although without children) with an ABF — the great times are great and it really causes me a lot of confusion and internal commotion. My mind and heart are regularly wrestling on this very subject. I really needed to read this tonight, and I will be thinking long and hard about all this.

MaybeCalifornia

Thanks again, everyone, for taking the time to read & share. It really means a lot.

Eight Ball- Thank you so much for sharing. I see a lot of myself in your story, unfortunately. I'm really sorry for the regret you feel, I worry about that often.
My daughter absolutely knows what's going on. I tried to cover up & make excuses for him when she was younger, which obviously didn't work. In fact, she was the one who finally came to me and asked "Dad has a drinking problem, doesn't he?" At that point I figured I would be as honest as I could. I see the pain this causes her, and it breaks my heart. But just as I don't want to believe my husband's situation is hopeless, I don't want to believe it's hopeless for her, either. I want to have faith that if we get on the right path now, she can heal, and be happy.

Mike- "Hope clouds observation" That's pretty much the whole situation in 3 simple words, isn't it? I find it incredibly hard to know when I'm seeing a situation clearly. I've been so confused that I'm not sure I can trust my own feelings, or even my perception of things sometimes. How do we know when we're really being honest with ourselves, rather than seeing things through a different yet equally distorted filter? Does that make any sense?

jessiec- I'm sorry you're dealing with this too. As much as you hate to know anyone else is living this way, knowing you're not alone helps a little. I often say that my head already knows these things, but my heart hasn't quite figured it out yet. It is very confusing, and mentally & emotionally exhausting. I hope you're doing whatever you can to take care of yourself.