tigger11

I'd never heard of Any Winehouse, but this is a great thread.

Cyranoak

I thought her to be beautiful and gifted. I also thought her to be in the depths of her addictions (which were many).

I'll miss her voice, and the beauty she created with it. I'm sorry she wasn't strong enough; some people just can't/don't make it.

Cyranoak

yorkiegirl

I have really appreciated the deep insight and compassion Russell Brand has expressed. He speaks from such a place of understanding and respect.

"All addicts, regardless of the substance or their social status share a consistent and obvious symptom; they’re not quite present when you talk to them. They communicate to you through a barely discernible but un-ignorable veil. Whether a homeless smack head troubling you for 50p for a cup of tea or a coked-up, pinstriped exec foaming off about his 'speedboat' there is a toxic aura that prevents connection. They have about them the air of elsewhere, that they’re looking through you to somewhere else they’d rather be. And of course they are. The priority of any addict is to anaesthetise the pain of living to ease the passage of the day with some purchased relief.

Some people just get the affliction. All we can do is adapt the way we view this condition, not as a crime or a romantic affectation but as a disease that will kill. We need to review the way society treats addicts, not as criminals but as sick people in need of care. We need to look at the way our government funds rehabilitation. It is cheaper to rehabilitate an addict than to send them to prison, so criminalization doesn't even make economic sense. Not all of us know someone with the incredible talent that Amy had but we all know drunks and junkies and they all need help and the help is out there. All they have to do is pick up the phone and make the call. Or not. Either way, there will be a phone call." (Russell Brand).

As a codie who has been around addicts my whole life, I have been communicated through what Brand has described as that "barely discernible but un-ignorable veil" and have been immersed in that "toxic aura." I have spent most of my life feeling lonely and unworthy because I sought the attention, the presence, the love from the addict. I know well what it's like to be "looked through" by that faraway, unavailable, disengaged "look" of the addict. How I longed for my addict to be "present."

Amy Winehouse was brilliant. I will miss her music and her performances--her musical and lyrical genius. When I watch some of her performances as she looks past the audience through that veil, I start to feel so sad. I think I am feeling sad for myself (as much as I am for the addict). It reminds me as a codie how much I have spent years "longing for" the addicts in my life to "see me" (not look through me), to love me, to be engaged & present in my life with me.

Amy Winehouse death has really affected me as well. It reminds me of the helplessness and hopelessness of being a codie who has loved addicts, wanting to do something, wanting to be their most loyal advocate, rescuer, & champion (wanting to *control*) but not really being able to do anything, watching someone you love, someone so talented, beautiful, young with his/her whole future ahead of him/her just withering away, destroying him/herself. . . As I mourn the passing of this amazing artist, I feel sad for myself that I feel so sad for the addict (always thinking about the addict first, obsessed with the addict, lamenting the pain of the addict, wanting to find a way to heal the addict). . . As a codie, I have to learn to care for myself, think of myself, champion myself, advocate on my behalf, to tend to my pain, to fill my void, to heal myself.

The "disease" of addiction infects and affects a lot more people than just the addict. . .

Rest well, Amy. . . no more pain and no need to self-medicate anymore. . . And for those of us who are here, may we continue our recovery.

Thank you for this thread.

NYCDoglvr

Actually, alcoholism is a mental illness. When you drink or use drugs the brain actually changes. Obsession and denial come to the forefront.

I'm an alcoholic (almost 20 years). While my thinking was distorted when I was active, there was always the choice to get help. Finally I got the help and today I don't drink. Only today.

Sadly, some people are too self-destructive to get sober.

EnoughisEnough7

NYCDoglvr your definition seems more accurate.

I have come to refer to alcoholism as a mental disorder or illness when speaking with "normies" since everyone knows, alcohol addiction is amazingly baffling when trying to understand it - especially if you have never lived with it. It seems much more accurate to define what is taking place - a distorted way of thinking. Russell Brand chose to refer to it as an affliction.

Referring to it as a disease many times evokes strong responses and debates comparing it to cancer or diabetes that have some similarities but also differences that make it hard to compare to addiction. However, there are a number of mental disorders that cause unexplained radical behaviors ... panic attacks, OCD, schizophrenia ... all involve what appears to be irrational conduct but are actually mental malfunctions. Science is finding more and more evidence addiction is associated with abnormal brain responses to mood altering addictive substances.
Hopefully someday soon we will have more answers and a better understanding of addiction - and better ways to treat it.

Freedom1990

Indeed. I've got a slew of relatives 6' under who died alcohol-related deaths i one form or another. My dad lost his mother when she was only 42, and she already had advanced cirrhosis of the liver.

Carol Star

I am amazed by the denial her father is STILL IN. He says she had her demons under control/ wasn't doing drugs- was just drinking. DUDE- she's DEAD !!!!!!!!

skippernlilg

"just drinking"? Did he really say that?

breakingglass

but who gave them that first drink? who's choice was it to start using in the first place and why? these are the things that i'll never understand about it....

fedup3

You don't know you have a problem until you have that first drink. There should be more education available on alcoholism to forewarn people.

Panther

I think you misunderstand the nature of the disease. Almost everyone has that "first drink" at some point in their life. An alcoholic drinks for the same reason anybody does - curiousity, social interaction, nervousness, etc. But the difference with them, is that their body reacts in a much different way. That first drink ultimately triggers the beginning of their disease.

So I think ultimately, they can't be blamed for that first drink anymore than a "normie" would be blamed. Alcohol is a big part of our culture.

Panther

I don't think people should shy away from labeling it a disease because it might start a debate. After all, for thousands of years people thought that schizophrenics were possessed by demons, imagine if those views had never been challenged for fear of inciting controversy.

It is what it is. It is a disease in the most literal definition of the word. It is primarily physical in nature, but because of the progressive destruction of the brain, it does also cause mental dysfunctions.

Panther

StarCat

I know some RA's who say that in hindsight they know they were addicted after the first drink. Others say that it took many years of consciously deciding to drink too much before they actually did lose control of the drinking.

I don't drink, I can count the number of drinks I have sipped on one hand, and I have only ever finished one glass of wine (I didn't like it, either, I just picked out a wine that was supposed to be phenominal and poured myself a small glass and told myself I was going to finish it to make sure the reason I didn't drink was because I didn't like it, not because I was afraid of it due to XABF).

The answer is I don't like it, I can't stand it in fact, but even I have tried some. I've had a "first drink".

Alcoholics don't have a sign on their forehead when they're born - "Alcoholic - Do Not Allow This Person to Drink Alcohol". Sure, coming from an alcoholic family there's a bigger chance of a person becoming an alcoholic, but even then it's not guaranteed, and not coming from an alcoholic family doesn't guarantee anything either.

My mother had a test done that shows that she carries the breast cancer gene, so now I know I have a really good chance of getting it, so I need to be careful and get regular screenings when I get older. I could get the test done myself, if I wanted to know if I also had these gene.

There's no such test for alcoholism. There's no warning. And there's no one to blame.


I don't think the point was to avoid a debate, I think the point was to use a clearer classification.

Alcoholism's effects on a person's mental state are closer to a mental disorder than a disease. I think calling it a mental disorder helps people realize the effects of the problem more accurately.
It's a lot harder to get a schizophrenic person to take their medication than it is to convince a person with diabetes to take insulin, simply because the disease of diabetes does not affect a person's mental condition and cloud their judgements, while the disease of schizophrenia does.

The side effects of a family coping with a family member with schizophrenia are closer to the families of alcoholics than the side effects of a family coping with a family member with diabetes. Therefore, it cuts out more of the misunderstandings.

skippernlilg

I think it's accurate to call it a mental disorder, as long as the audience understands that mental disorders are a physiological misfire (if you will) at the level of our cells that cause other physiological, psychological, behavioral, and social symptoms. Lots of people don't even understand that (it's all in your head, man! ) , so sometimes it's easier to call it a disease, as an all-encompassing definition.

Panther

StarCat - I understand what you're saying, and I agree with you for the most part. I just think its unfortunate that so much effort at clarification needs to be made when there is ample evidence proving that alcoholism is physiological and genetically based.

Every article I've read so far about Amy Winehouse talks about her and her "demons". I've yet to read an article, that refers to her, that mentions the physical nature of alcohol addiction. I think it shows just how ignorant most people are. And I think the question is, not what to label alcoholism, but how to get the information out there to people. And an even bigger question, is how to overcome the myths that have been long believed by so many.

Skipper - I think disease is more accurate but I can see why some people prefer mental disorder. Either way, I think they're both better options than labeling the person "weak", "self-destructive" or "plagued by demons".

TakingCharge999

I tend to agree with this view that says alcoholism is influenced by both hereditary and environmental factors.

Facts About Alcoholism - Alcoholism - Is It Hereditary?

Regardless of a genetic tendency toward alcoholism, it is still a conscious decision to choose to drink and to get drunk. It has been said that the person with the genetic predisposition to alcoholism is an alcoholic at birth whether or not he or she ever takes a drink. Taking the drink initiates the disease into its active phase. The ability to stop drinking before becoming addicted lies ultimately in the hands of the drinker.

I think alcoholics, regardless of the how's or why's, have the same options as anyone else to take a good honest look at themselves and take control of their lives. This forum has many recovered alcoholics. Why would others be different? A predisposition and/or family history is not a life sentence.

Panther

Taking Charge - I think you have good intentions, however the view you mentioned above is not supported by scientific research. That view (or should I say myth) has been around for thousands of years and will continue to be around as long as people refuse to believe the research that has been done.

The book Under the Influence by Dr. Milam provides evidence of study after study that supports the theory that alcoholism is a physiological disease and not based on will power or the environment.

Alcoholism is a lot like cancer. Cancer is a disease that many people die from. Some people don't. Some people fight hard and recover. Does this mean that all the people who die from cancer didn't try hard enough? Hardly. And I think we can all agree that to say such a thing would not only be insulting, but cruel.

Some people die from alcoholism not because they didn't try and not because they didn't want to live, but because the disease in the end was more powerful. Maybe they never received medical care? Maybe they had a particularly vicious type of alcoholism? Maybe by the time they received attention for it irreversible damage had already been done to their liver and their brain? Why make assumptions and say that they didn't chose to live? Is that really a fair thing to say?

Panther

yorkiegirl

The book Under the Influence by Dr. Milam provides evidence of study after study that supports the theory that alcoholism is a physiological disease and not based on will power or the environment.

In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts is also a great book on addiction by Dr. Gabor Mate who explains the science behind addiction in a very humanistic, compassionate way.

I think most of us lay-people have our own limited theories and explanations on what addiction is or is not. Most reputable doctors, addiction specialists, and professionals will tell us it's a "disease" or a "brain disorder." They can offer us scientific, empirical evidence. The "disease model" seems to work in explaining and understanding the complexities of addiction. I'm okay with that explanation. It makes a lot of sense. When new science provides us with alternative explanations, I will gladly accept alternative models. Until then, I do rely on those who work in the addiction field with their vast knowledge, experience and tested ways for the explanations.

This discussion always frustrates me. I've been to family group sessions in in-patient & out-patient treatment programs as well as to AA/Alanon and there's always someone who inevitably starts going on about how it's genetic or how it's about will power or how it's about this or that. . . This is when I practice "detachment" and try to zone out for bit. I have to try hard *not* to judge or demean different understandings, but sometimes it's hard.

For me, at some point it does become irrelevant if addiction is inherited (genetic) or if it has been acquired environmentally, whether it's a disease or not. There is a field called "epigenetics" that examines the intricate and interactive connections of genetics and environment. (Personally, I think "epigenetics" best explains the "causes" for a physiological disease called "addiction". . . but that is neither here nor there. . . and I am not an expert, just a codie affected and influenced by addictions).

Individuals are different. There are also generalizable patterns we can refer to (for both addiction and for recovery). *Addiction exists.* People are hurting. People need help. People need access to inexpensive effective (in some cases long-term) treatment. There are treatments that work in managing addiction and help with recovery.

And what most of us here painfully know is that recovery is ultimately in the hands of the addict. (And, for me, I tend to focus on the alcoholic/addict so I should be re-directing my energies on my own healing.)

The following was a great article:
Tony Newman: Amy Winehouse: Reflections from Two Drug Policy Activists

LosingmyMisery

I know I was weak, self-destructive and plagued by demons when I was drinking. Drinking wore me down and destroyed me. I think it is important to remember that drinking is a symptom of our disease. I drank because of the demons of my past. That is meant to be metaphorical, not literal. However, there may have been a time or two when an exorcism may have been in order. I don't know what pain Amy suffered from, but there must have been plenty of it. She was trying to mask behind drugs and alcohol and it won. Addiction shows no mercy...

Throwing my 2 cents in about whether alcoholism is a disease or mental illness, I really don't know or care. It is what it is. I have come to a point of calling it a disease just because it has become easier to do so in a discussion. I can't say I care for the label and really don't care for it being called a mental illness either, but what am I gonna do? Whatever it is, I am plagued by it. When I remove the alcohol from my life, work on healing the pain from my past, and work on recovery, I am whole again.

transformyself

I've read a few articles recently that say her parents think she died due to sudden alcohol withdrawal. That would be even more tragic, if she died trying to sober up.