Younger Brother in Law Rules
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
The deal is, he isn't an unruly 13-y/o. He's an adult. I don't care for the idea of having "rules" about whether he goes to AA or is "sincere" about it--that kinda strikes me as micromanaging, not to mention rather subjective. Heck, I know a lot of alcoholics in recovery who waffle about why they are quitting drinking, but they are quitting drinking. How do you measure sincerity?
What MATTERS is what he does, how he behaves in your home. If he behaves in a way that is unacceptable to you, you don't let him stay there. If he were to drink away from your home and doesn't wreak chaos and havoc by doing it, it really wouldn't need to be your concern. Of course, we all know that if he drinks away from your house, the chaos and havoc will inevitably follow, but you can't prevent it by controlling him, only by the consequence of kicking him out if he brings those lovely things into your house.
One thing I learned about dealing with alcoholics, though--don't make empty threats. Don't make ultimatums you aren't prepared to carry out. His choices, his consequences.
What MATTERS is what he does, how he behaves in your home. If he behaves in a way that is unacceptable to you, you don't let him stay there. If he were to drink away from your home and doesn't wreak chaos and havoc by doing it, it really wouldn't need to be your concern. Of course, we all know that if he drinks away from your house, the chaos and havoc will inevitably follow, but you can't prevent it by controlling him, only by the consequence of kicking him out if he brings those lovely things into your house.
One thing I learned about dealing with alcoholics, though--don't make empty threats. Don't make ultimatums you aren't prepared to carry out. His choices, his consequences.
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,052
Sorry about that...
...I could have been more gentle. I know it's rough, so let me rephrase this: Anything, and I mean anything, that he says must be assumed to be a lie until you verify for yourself that it is true. In fact, some are so good at it they can get their enablers to lie for them. If he hasn't tried that on you guys yet stay tuned-- it's coming.
You will soon discover that even when the truth will do, more often than not an alcoholic will lie.
Again, my apologies.
Cyranoak
You will soon discover that even when the truth will do, more often than not an alcoholic will lie.
Again, my apologies.
Cyranoak
Originally Posted by aloe 
This is my first rodeo people, I'm very inclined to believe what I hear. This is all new to me. It's only been two weeks.
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 20
That is okay. I think I needed some harsh truth. Ha, that's funny. 
Originally Posted by Cyranoak
...I could have been more gentle. I know it's rough, so let me rephrase this: Anything, and I mean anything, that he says must be assumed to be a lie until you verify for yourself that it is true. In fact, some are so good at it they can get their enablers to lie for them. If he hasn't tried that on you guys yet stay tuned-- it's coming.
You will soon discover that even when the truth will do, more often than not an alcoholic will lie.
Again, my apologies.
Cyranoak
You will soon discover that even when the truth will do, more often than not an alcoholic will lie.
Again, my apologies.
Cyranoak
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 20
What it comes down to is that he broke our trust and got drunk, and then came home that way. We cannot live with someone that we cannot trust. We are asking/telling him to pack his stuff and to be out by 8am tomorrow. We called a shelter and they won't take him without a tb card tonight. So he will have to figure out what to do with himself tomorrow morning. He has a new job, and I feel bad that he might not be able to continue with it, but it was being a bartender and that is a horrible job for an alcoholic. Thanks for the advice and help.
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,913
Welcome to SR, Aloe.
You don't say how old your BIL is (unless I missed it somewhere), but he's old enough to have alienated most of his family, move across the country, get a great job, meet a girl, lose said gal and job, and then get a job in a bar. Plenty old enough to figure out how to find some where to stay.
It sounds like you're feeling a bit guilty about sticking to your contract. ? Leave the rules and contract aside for a bit. Leave even the fact that he violated your trust by drinking aside for just a bit.
Take the fact that you know he's an alcoholic out of the equation; take the fact that he's family out. Pretend that he's just a friend of your husband's, some one you don't really know. Would you still be inclined to feel guilty about asking him to leave to after he barges back into your home, drunk, yelling at you and your husband about how stupid you are for wanting yourselves and your home to be treated with courtesy and respect?
IMO, you did the right thing for both you and your husband and your BIL. Holding your BIL's hand and not letting him take responsibility for his own actions wouldn't have helped him.
Sending you hugs. Please keep reading and posting here, check out a few Al-Anon meetings, continue seeking the support you need.
Originally Posted by aloe
Where will he go when we kick him out? He knows no one in this city.
It sounds like you're feeling a bit guilty about sticking to your contract. ? Leave the rules and contract aside for a bit. Leave even the fact that he violated your trust by drinking aside for just a bit.
Take the fact that you know he's an alcoholic out of the equation; take the fact that he's family out. Pretend that he's just a friend of your husband's, some one you don't really know. Would you still be inclined to feel guilty about asking him to leave to after he barges back into your home, drunk, yelling at you and your husband about how stupid you are for wanting yourselves and your home to be treated with courtesy and respect?
IMO, you did the right thing for both you and your husband and your BIL. Holding your BIL's hand and not letting him take responsibility for his own actions wouldn't have helped him.
Sending you hugs. Please keep reading and posting here, check out a few Al-Anon meetings, continue seeking the support you need.
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 20
My husband stayed as calm as he could have during the whole talk. The begging and pushing back and flip flopping to acceptance and then back to begging was intense. I appreciate all of the support and good thoughts you are all sending. This was a way worse ending then we saw coming. My husband was going to give him until tomorrow morning to be out, but it got worse. BIL said only 6 hours...and that was it! Hubby said get out now. And that still didn't end it, the begging continued. I will be very happy when our house is ours again.
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He's out and he was able to call a cab and a hotel by himself. He did leave a few personal items behind, like his books which he loves, which makes me worry a bit. And now we just need to deal with the sadness.
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: carolina girl
Posts: 578
He is where he needs to be right now.
The only way an A gets better is by experiencing the consequences of their actions. You offered your support and your home to this man, and he sh@ all over it. It was his choice to do that. He will figure something out, they usually do. And until HE figures it out, all by himself, there is nothing you or your husband can do but get out of his way.
This isn't over, not by a long shot. Please seek out some alanon, and keep reading on here. It rarely ends that easily.
For the first three paragraphs, I thought this was about my ex... I thought you were his brother's wife. Man that was heart stopping for a minute. I'm guessing your BIL's drinking had something to do with his girlfriend leaving... they'll never admit it, but that's usually the case. Like Cyr said, they lie alot.
Glad you found us, keep coming back!!
The only way an A gets better is by experiencing the consequences of their actions. You offered your support and your home to this man, and he sh@ all over it. It was his choice to do that. He will figure something out, they usually do. And until HE figures it out, all by himself, there is nothing you or your husband can do but get out of his way.
This isn't over, not by a long shot. Please seek out some alanon, and keep reading on here. It rarely ends that easily.
For the first three paragraphs, I thought this was about my ex... I thought you were his brother's wife. Man that was heart stopping for a minute. I'm guessing your BIL's drinking had something to do with his girlfriend leaving... they'll never admit it, but that's usually the case. Like Cyr said, they lie alot.
Glad you found us, keep coming back!!
Skipper
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: South Texas, USA
Posts: 827
Kitty!
Originally Posted by kittykitty
He is where he needs to be right now.
The only way an A gets better is by experiencing the consequences of their actions. You offered your support and your home to this man, and he sh@ all over it. It was his choice to do that. He will figure something out, they usually do. And until HE figures it out, all by himself, there is nothing you or your husband can do but get out of his way.
This isn't over, not by a long shot. Please seek out some alanon, and keep reading on here. It rarely ends that easily.
For the first three paragraphs, I thought this was about my ex... I thought you were his brother's wife. Man that was heart stopping for a minute. I'm guessing your BIL's drinking had something to do with his girlfriend leaving... they'll never admit it, but that's usually the case. Like Cyr said, they lie alot.
Glad you found us, keep coming back!!
The only way an A gets better is by experiencing the consequences of their actions. You offered your support and your home to this man, and he sh@ all over it. It was his choice to do that. He will figure something out, they usually do. And until HE figures it out, all by himself, there is nothing you or your husband can do but get out of his way.
This isn't over, not by a long shot. Please seek out some alanon, and keep reading on here. It rarely ends that easily.
For the first three paragraphs, I thought this was about my ex... I thought you were his brother's wife. Man that was heart stopping for a minute. I'm guessing your BIL's drinking had something to do with his girlfriend leaving... they'll never admit it, but that's usually the case. Like Cyr said, they lie alot.
Glad you found us, keep coming back!!
I thought this was about MY ex, fast-forward two weeks from today. Yep, exABF plans to move across the country and set up with his brother and his sister-in-law.
(not)Funny how the stories have this many similarities.
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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Wow, two of you thought this story was about people you knew. It's good to know we are not alone, but scary as well.
I'm starting to think BIL will try to come back once he runs out of money, and there is no way he will be allowed back here.
Are there any lessons you two could share about your BIL's? Kitty, what do you mean this isn't over? What is coming that I don't see?
I think some sort of counceling or alanon would be very helpful. My husband feels horrible for yelling, plus we didn't sleep much. Sorry, I am rambling a little.
Thanks for your comments.
I'm starting to think BIL will try to come back once he runs out of money, and there is no way he will be allowed back here.
Are there any lessons you two could share about your BIL's? Kitty, what do you mean this isn't over? What is coming that I don't see?
I think some sort of counceling or alanon would be very helpful. My husband feels horrible for yelling, plus we didn't sleep much. Sorry, I am rambling a little.
Thanks for your comments.
Originally Posted by skippernlilg
Oh. Em. Gee.
I thought this was about MY ex, fast-forward two weeks from today. Yep, exABF plans to move across the country and set up with his brother and his sister-in-law.
(not)Funny how the stories have this many similarities.
I thought this was about MY ex, fast-forward two weeks from today. Yep, exABF plans to move across the country and set up with his brother and his sister-in-law.
(not)Funny how the stories have this many similarities.
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You sound like such good, wonderful people. You cared, you involved, you committed, you participated. But in the end, your BIL needs to grow up and become independent, after of course, getting sober.
He is not your problem. You did your best.
If he comes back? Apply the same rules. It seems you did well with your rules. He did not follow the rules and you kicked him out. Something tells me he won't want to come back to such a tough and challenging situation. I wouldn't expect him back anytime soon.
He is not your problem. You did your best.
If he comes back? Apply the same rules. It seems you did well with your rules. He did not follow the rules and you kicked him out. Something tells me he won't want to come back to such a tough and challenging situation. I wouldn't expect him back anytime soon.
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It's been a day and we actually got some sleep last night. According to other family members BIL went to an aa meeting and to work yesterday. Last night H got a text from BIL saying he was safe after he got home from work. H did not respond. BIL still has not reached out to get a sponsor, talk at a meeting, or call anyone on his AA list to get help. We do not have the tools to deal with BIL and he can never come back here.
I'm hoping that this doesn't turn ugly.
We have already talked about changing the locks, even though we did get our key back right away. We even thought about borrowing someone's gun just so we could have it in the house in case he shows up and tries to break in (with no ammo of course, I hate guns).
We should not have to live our lives in fear, or anxious about when or if BIL shows up.
I'm hoping that this doesn't turn ugly.
We have already talked about changing the locks, even though we did get our key back right away. We even thought about borrowing someone's gun just so we could have it in the house in case he shows up and tries to break in (with no ammo of course, I hate guns). We should not have to live our lives in fear, or anxious about when or if BIL shows up.
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Has BIL given either of you any indication that he might break in? I think getting a gun is pretty drastic in any case. Instead of threatening someone with a gun, loaded or not, why not just call 911 if he tries anything?
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We will call the sheriff if he shows up. I was just saying that it had crossed H and my mind seperately to borrow a gun to have. I agree, guns are never a good idea. We are just not liking the ideas we are thinking about. It's hard to think this way about someone you loved but have absolutely no trust for.
Originally Posted by suki44883
Has BIL given either of you any indication that he might break in? I think getting a gun is pretty drastic in any case. Instead of threatening someone with a gun, loaded or not, why not just call 911 if he tries anything?
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,915
Sometimes we awfulize these situations, worrying unnecessarily about all the what if's. Having the number for the sheriff handy by the phone, or programmed into your cell phone should suffice. Worrying about what he might do is a waste of time. Chances are he won't do anything, but if he should, just call the sheriff. Quit worrying so much.
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
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Originally Posted by aloe
We even thought about borrowing someone's gun just so we could have it in the house in case he shows up and tries to break in (with no ammo of course, I hate guns).
Your friend,
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I'm not really that concerned about posting something like that on a public forum. It's our house and we would, and have the right to defend it if we need to. But, like I said, it was a thought we had both shared, not something we were actually going to do. What I said, and what H and I shared, was that we are scared because we don't know what is coming next.
We are still just processing everything, this is our first time dealing with an ABIL. We don't know him, and we have no experience with this disease. We don't know what the future will hold, and will do our best to live our lives without fear.
We are still just processing everything, this is our first time dealing with an ABIL. We don't know him, and we have no experience with this disease. We don't know what the future will hold, and will do our best to live our lives without fear.
Originally Posted by m1k3
This is a really really really bad idea. Especially since you posted it on a public forum. Do NOT even think of bringing a gun into the house.
Your friend,
Your friend,
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Join Date: May 2011
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Originally Posted by aloe
I'm not really that concerned about posting something like that on a public forum. It's our house and we would, and have the right to defend it if we need to. But, like I said, it was a thought we had both shared, not something we were actually going to do. What I said, and what H and I shared, was that we are scared because we don't know what is coming next.
We are still just processing everything, this is our first time dealing with an ABIL. We don't know him, and we have no experience with this disease. We don't know what the future will hold, and will do our best to live our lives without fear.
We are still just processing everything, this is our first time dealing with an ABIL. We don't know him, and we have no experience with this disease. We don't know what the future will hold, and will do our best to live our lives without fear.
I'm am aware of this because of my involvement in martial arts. You really need to be careful about stuff like this.
Your friend,
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
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Originally Posted by aloe
What do you not understand?? This is not about a gun. Read my previous posting carefully.
I was only talking about your gun comment, nothing else, so from my point of view it is ONLY about the gun.
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