The 'Soulmate' Trap
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thanks for sharing @Iluvdaisy and @mizserenity and @Tuffgirl.
I think we all struggle with the same things. its nice to know we are not alone in our internal battles. I miss my RA terribly today, Im literaly working through the seconds.
I think we all struggle with the same things. its nice to know we are not alone in our internal battles. I miss my RA terribly today, Im literaly working through the seconds.
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I think that if you have that crazy intense type of physical attraction with someone, it completely destroys the chance to have an emotional connection. Its ok to be attracted to someone at first, but it has to level off at some point. Healthy relationships need to have a balance of each. Usually when a relationship is so intense on the physical side, it could be because the two people are unconciously trying to make up for what is lacking emotionally.
And on top of that, Alcoholics can't have healthy relationships to begin with so to test this theory on them is pointless because you never know if what they are feeling is "real" or put on just to hook you into their hostage trap.
I would suggest finding a non-Alcoholic. Its gotta be more worthwhile than seeving through the mind f*ck that an alcoholic will put you through emotionally. Who really cares about mind blowing sex anyway when afterwards you cry yourself to sleep because he left you lying in bed to go to the bar?
And on top of that, Alcoholics can't have healthy relationships to begin with so to test this theory on them is pointless because you never know if what they are feeling is "real" or put on just to hook you into their hostage trap.
I would suggest finding a non-Alcoholic. Its gotta be more worthwhile than seeving through the mind f*ck that an alcoholic will put you through emotionally. Who really cares about mind blowing sex anyway when afterwards you cry yourself to sleep because he left you lying in bed to go to the bar?
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Originally Posted by pixipie 
I have struggled personally with this soulmate trap, the stories I've read over and over fit my situation perfectly. How do other women/men feel about the sexual intimacy they have experienced with their addict, has this contributed to the death grip on a bad situation they should rationally leave? I know that for me, the physical intimacy was profound, intense and passionate, and its left a stain. At present this last irrational feeling is whats causing me to hold on. Thoughts?
The sexual intimacy was the last thing to go, and what I clung to the most desperately.
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I've been mulling over this thread for a few. Like Ponder, the term "soul mate" makes me want to hurl, but that's a (relatively) recent development. And like DeVon mentions, I think it contributes a lot to the whole death grip thing on relationships, whether 'normal' one or ones involving addiction and enabling or DV.
For the recent development part: I completely sucked myself into 2 very unhealthy relationships believing they were "the One". After the first one went south (he flat out refused to “let” me transfer to the private college where I’d won a merit scholarship) and I called it off, I still believed in soul mates. I convinced myself that I’d just had been wrong about the guy.
Enter stage right: XAH. 16 years. 16 years hoping; the last half of them spent dreaming that the guy I thought he was would come back.... He’s gone; alcohol has stripped him of any possibility of ever being that guy again, if that guy ever existed any where than in my hopes.
Throughout the relationship with XAH, my favorite saying was by Blaise Pascal “La couer a ses raisons que la raison ne connait pas.” (“The heart has its reasons which reason knows not.”) If you can relate to that quote, and use it to gloss over the cr-p parts of the relationship, IMHO, it’s safe to say it’s not a healthy relationship to be in.
I really like the definition of "soul mate" that GerryP posted. Makes it a bit easier to swallow that I thought XAH was my soul mate, because I definitely learned a few things during my relationship with him; things I do not care to have to re-learn, thank you very much.
For the recent development part: I completely sucked myself into 2 very unhealthy relationships believing they were "the One". After the first one went south (he flat out refused to “let” me transfer to the private college where I’d won a merit scholarship) and I called it off, I still believed in soul mates. I convinced myself that I’d just had been wrong about the guy.
Enter stage right: XAH. 16 years. 16 years hoping; the last half of them spent dreaming that the guy I thought he was would come back.... He’s gone; alcohol has stripped him of any possibility of ever being that guy again, if that guy ever existed any where than in my hopes.
Throughout the relationship with XAH, my favorite saying was by Blaise Pascal “La couer a ses raisons que la raison ne connait pas.” (“The heart has its reasons which reason knows not.”) If you can relate to that quote, and use it to gloss over the cr-p parts of the relationship, IMHO, it’s safe to say it’s not a healthy relationship to be in.
I really like the definition of "soul mate" that GerryP posted. Makes it a bit easier to swallow that I thought XAH was my soul mate, because I definitely learned a few things during my relationship with him; things I do not care to have to re-learn, thank you very much.
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yeah, i would have to say that my ex and i were very compatible in the bedroom, more so that I was with others who were more talented at certain things, or more well endowed, to put it bluntly. Something about him was just different, and better than anyone before him.
I understand completely what you are saying, and have no answer for it. I'm sure it has to do with some chemicals in our brain, release of endorphinoids such and such blah blah blah. Everything for a time being is super intense, when we've convinced ourselves of some amazing extraterrestrial connection. It fades. boy does it fade.
I understand completely what you are saying, and have no answer for it. I'm sure it has to do with some chemicals in our brain, release of endorphinoids such and such blah blah blah. Everything for a time being is super intense, when we've convinced ourselves of some amazing extraterrestrial connection. It fades. boy does it fade.
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Hi Uncertainty 
thanks for your voice.
Theres been alot of emphasis on the word 'soulmate' in this thread, possibly alot more than I intended as it wasn't really the focus of what I was driving at, but never the less, it clearly speaks to how the term soulmate envokes a very strong reaction in readers when they relate it back to themselves and their relationship to their alcoholic/addict. For the record I don't think of the RA as a soulmate.
I use the word paired up with 'trap' as a sort of symbiotic beast, the concept of being trapped by strong feelings both physical and emotional towards a particular person for no clear or present rational reason. My RA is hugely charismatic, strong and physically demonstrative, we find it difficult to be near one another and not touch. When touch occurs its like lighting a match in a gunpowder warehouse. My lovely non-drinker ex never possessed this quality, we had a great relationship but the passion was very very tempered. I wonder if its the combination of myself and RA or if it has anything to do with his addict personality, that seems to flag up quite abit.
some days are a battle, some pass without incident, even though its been 2 months since last seeing him, there doesn't seem to be any let up.
thanks for your voice.Theres been alot of emphasis on the word 'soulmate' in this thread, possibly alot more than I intended as it wasn't really the focus of what I was driving at, but never the less, it clearly speaks to how the term soulmate envokes a very strong reaction in readers when they relate it back to themselves and their relationship to their alcoholic/addict. For the record I don't think of the RA as a soulmate.
I use the word paired up with 'trap' as a sort of symbiotic beast, the concept of being trapped by strong feelings both physical and emotional towards a particular person for no clear or present rational reason. My RA is hugely charismatic, strong and physically demonstrative, we find it difficult to be near one another and not touch. When touch occurs its like lighting a match in a gunpowder warehouse. My lovely non-drinker ex never possessed this quality, we had a great relationship but the passion was very very tempered. I wonder if its the combination of myself and RA or if it has anything to do with his addict personality, that seems to flag up quite abit.
some days are a battle, some pass without incident, even though its been 2 months since last seeing him, there doesn't seem to be any let up.
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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Sorry this might sound gross but I THINK A's are good at sex and swooning us in the bedroom because they have had alot of practice with alot of different people. My XABF was good in bed because he dated so many women. Not because he wanted to date tons of women, but because he would get so drunk and mess it up with so many girls and they dumped him after only a few weeks, that he had to go from one to the next. And he never could stay sinlge because he is too insecure to ever be alone.
JMHO. They have alot of practice.
JMHO. They have alot of practice.
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Yeah, I think the term itself as used by the general public today is a trap. Though, I'm not sure I'd say, symbiotic - more parasitic... It most definitely isn't generally thought of as GerryP's definition.
I think strong feelings have a habit of detaching themselves (that's not quite the explanation I'm looking for, but it's close.....) from rationality. There may be a basis for them - past experience, chemical changes in the mind/body... what have you, but emotions aren't necessarily rational.
The first truly unhealthy relationship I had was exactly like you say. Oddly enough he wasn't an alcoholic, but it turns out he was highly controlling. The first time I saw this guy, I think literally forgot to breathe for a second; charisma, confidence - sexy as hell. I used to thank god that what got me to leave was his trying to tell me that I wasn't allowed to transfer to the private college out of state where I'd gotten a scholarship. Nice healthy dose of F that and I was off over 2000 miles away. It made it a lot easier to get past the passion.
I think strong feelings have a habit of detaching themselves (that's not quite the explanation I'm looking for, but it's close.....) from rationality. There may be a basis for them - past experience, chemical changes in the mind/body... what have you, but emotions aren't necessarily rational.
The first truly unhealthy relationship I had was exactly like you say. Oddly enough he wasn't an alcoholic, but it turns out he was highly controlling. The first time I saw this guy, I think literally forgot to breathe for a second; charisma, confidence - sexy as hell. I used to thank god that what got me to leave was his trying to tell me that I wasn't allowed to transfer to the private college out of state where I'd gotten a scholarship. Nice healthy dose of F that and I was off over 2000 miles away. It made it a lot easier to get past the passion.
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@Duqld - not gross at all. and no doubt in my mind you are totally right. I once said to him 'Im not judging, and I don't care, but do you know how many?' he replied 'no, I honestly can't remember'. Having said that I haven't bedded whole towns of men and Im not bad myself LOL. We appear to have some type of (irritatingly good) techinical compatibility.
@theuncertainty - yes, I can relate to your story, my childrens dad was highly controlling, I too had the same sexual responsiveness to him. This new situation is uncomfortably akin to it but my RA is not controlling at all (yet?). When I chose to finally leave him after 10 years, he committed suicide. But thats whole other thing I don't wanna delve into...
@theuncertainty - yes, I can relate to your story, my childrens dad was highly controlling, I too had the same sexual responsiveness to him. This new situation is uncomfortably akin to it but my RA is not controlling at all (yet?). When I chose to finally leave him after 10 years, he committed suicide. But thats whole other thing I don't wanna delve into...
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I can't generalize all alcoholics, but I can tell you that my XAH was a very extreme person. He couldn't just "eat healthier" he had to become a vegetarian. He couldn't just "exercise more" he had to swim for two hours five times a week. He couldn't just "go camping" he had to plan a two week backpacking trip in the wilderness. And he couldn't just have a couple of drinks, he had to get drunker than anyone else at the party. The "intensity" was present in the bedroom as well, at least until the alcohol took it's toll.
I would guess that the proverbial "addictive personality" goes deeper than just substance abuse.
L
I would guess that the proverbial "addictive personality" goes deeper than just substance abuse.
L
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I have been reading this thread, nodding my head with almost every post. Pixi, you nailed it for me. I have found myself thinking "Maybe I can just DATE him. I'm not looking to get married. I don't have to be around him when he's drinking. I can just be with him when he's sober. We can laugh and joke and talk and have insanely satisfying sex like we always do when he's sober." ARGH!! Insanity.
I honestly have gotten over the urge to save him. I just have never had such an intense physical connection with a man before (he's not my first rodeo, so to speak) and I can't imagine I ever will again. What about just a hook up now and then??? LOL!!!!! JOKING!!! Or am I? HA!
I honestly have gotten over the urge to save him. I just have never had such an intense physical connection with a man before (he's not my first rodeo, so to speak) and I can't imagine I ever will again. What about just a hook up now and then??? LOL!!!!! JOKING!!! Or am I? HA!
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@Lateeda - my RA fits into this box, a driven person who excelled in sports and now his career... but to the detriment of his last relationship, he just wouldn't give up the job. I can see the intensity crosses over to his sexual prowess, and hes the type of man that drips charisma everytime he flashes a smile with his white teeth or glints his eyes.
@SKW - you are not alone, I find myself thinking do I really just want to sleep with him and nothing else, maybe thats it? trying to remove the dissonance by trying to change the parameters all the time of my expectations. I should be focussing on me not him. But yes, trying to forget the sweet sweet taste of the honey is like a private kind of hell.
@SKW - you are not alone, I find myself thinking do I really just want to sleep with him and nothing else, maybe thats it? trying to remove the dissonance by trying to change the parameters all the time of my expectations. I should be focussing on me not him. But yes, trying to forget the sweet sweet taste of the honey is like a private kind of hell.
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hmm ok i met my AH in a bar.... he became a one night stand .... and we had amazing passionate intimacy for the first year of dating (long distance).
we talked on the phone anywhere from 4-12 hours a day at first and i did believe i met my soul mate. i still believe he is my soul mate, but he sure has a lot of issues to work out while hes INPATIENT for the next 30 days. ... soul mate or not, im not going down that road anymore. He can choose to be a productive member of our relationship, and society, or my soul mate can walk, and ill find another soul mate. LOL
we talked on the phone anywhere from 4-12 hours a day at first and i did believe i met my soul mate. i still believe he is my soul mate, but he sure has a lot of issues to work out while hes INPATIENT for the next 30 days. ... soul mate or not, im not going down that road anymore. He can choose to be a productive member of our relationship, and society, or my soul mate can walk, and ill find another soul mate. LOL
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@LostinLV - the long distance thing sucks. And yet its good at the same time because it leaves no option but fo you to be safe in your space and forces you to concentrate on yourself. At least thats been my experience. My RA is about 18 days in (unless theres been a relapse and he hasn't told me, highly possible) and Im grabbing hold of the idea that the first month is like a personal kind of hell.
Im still working through my feelings, which aren't dampening, but over time maybe they will.
Im still working through my feelings, which aren't dampening, but over time maybe they will.
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Interesting thread!!
I have noticed the people that attract me physically are the ones who won't be there for me. I see it over and over.. simple: you were abandoned, you look for people that abandon you, often unconsciously. I didn't know my traits were similar to ACOAs but our common theme is parents not being there for you for one reason or the other...
Those are the guys I like, the ones I have to "hunt". Gladly I am now aware of this and go no contact, or limit contact, with such people. I know what to expect, empty promises. Recently one of such guys was here in my city and I noticed how he expected me to be readily available.. to go get him at the bus terminal.. to go meet him at a mall... well fortunately I have a life now and didn't go out of my way to see him. Progress!
I prefer peace now.
Anyway, its all about feeling communion with another human being, and I have been able to do that doing some exercises (kundalini, tantra yoga) that do not involve a naked man lol, other kinds of touch. And the pleasure goes beyond physical experiences (or at least that has been my case). Its a completely different level. These exercises have made me feel much better and "connected" than any physical encounter have ever made me feel.
Or meditation. Those are the kind of experiences that make me feel connected to human beings and don't involve any drama nor do I feel sad or vulnerable, quite the contrary I feel empowered and stronger afterwards...
Men don't need any emotion to have sex it seems, but then why have it if its just going to satisfy your basic needs? I mean its the same with having dinner, you can have whatever standing outside the fridge or you can actually go get healthy foods, cook them, serve them in a nice calm setting, enjoy it, have a main dish and dessert and good music playing in the background.. THAT is satisfaction and pleasure in my book, even just thinking what you'd like to have for dinner is fun.
I don't know, I like activities that involve my heart and soul, and seeking pleasure in many ways (tantra yoga concept!). I don't feel alive otherwise.
And yes the kind of attraction to alkie is very sick and powerful, but I don't think it was special than any other, we all live different things with different people, I have noticed its not so much about others lives or abilities lol, its about how I am feeling in that moment and how aware I am of the present moment, how aligned my thoughts/feelings/actions are, etc. and especially for me how secure and protected I feel. I no longer need momentary gratifications if I am going to feel drained, used, stupid, abandoned, unworthy afterwards, as I said in another thread that was my role in a previous movie. And its finished.
I have noticed the people that attract me physically are the ones who won't be there for me. I see it over and over.. simple: you were abandoned, you look for people that abandon you, often unconsciously. I didn't know my traits were similar to ACOAs but our common theme is parents not being there for you for one reason or the other...
Those are the guys I like, the ones I have to "hunt". Gladly I am now aware of this and go no contact, or limit contact, with such people. I know what to expect, empty promises. Recently one of such guys was here in my city and I noticed how he expected me to be readily available.. to go get him at the bus terminal.. to go meet him at a mall... well fortunately I have a life now and didn't go out of my way to see him. Progress!
I prefer peace now.
Anyway, its all about feeling communion with another human being, and I have been able to do that doing some exercises (kundalini, tantra yoga) that do not involve a naked man lol, other kinds of touch. And the pleasure goes beyond physical experiences (or at least that has been my case). Its a completely different level. These exercises have made me feel much better and "connected" than any physical encounter have ever made me feel.
Or meditation. Those are the kind of experiences that make me feel connected to human beings and don't involve any drama nor do I feel sad or vulnerable, quite the contrary I feel empowered and stronger afterwards...
Men don't need any emotion to have sex it seems, but then why have it if its just going to satisfy your basic needs? I mean its the same with having dinner, you can have whatever standing outside the fridge or you can actually go get healthy foods, cook them, serve them in a nice calm setting, enjoy it, have a main dish and dessert and good music playing in the background.. THAT is satisfaction and pleasure in my book, even just thinking what you'd like to have for dinner is fun.
I don't know, I like activities that involve my heart and soul, and seeking pleasure in many ways (tantra yoga concept!). I don't feel alive otherwise.
And yes the kind of attraction to alkie is very sick and powerful, but I don't think it was special than any other, we all live different things with different people, I have noticed its not so much about others lives or abilities lol, its about how I am feeling in that moment and how aware I am of the present moment, how aligned my thoughts/feelings/actions are, etc. and especially for me how secure and protected I feel. I no longer need momentary gratifications if I am going to feel drained, used, stupid, abandoned, unworthy afterwards, as I said in another thread that was my role in a previous movie. And its finished.
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