stella27

My AH is out of my life - except to the extent that we discuss children, which is minimal.

Recently, I find myself acting in ways that I expect to earn me gratitude from other people. I am also craving romantic relationships - not to the point that I would date just anyone, but I am craving adoration and appreciation.

I recognize the tendencies. I hold myself accountable for them and call them what they are. But how do you move into not craving it? How do you move into not becoming resentful when people don't appreciate you like you want them to? What do you DO with this need to be indipensable and appreciated?

I know it's co-dependent thinking, but I don't know how to work through it and not need it anymore.

thanks.

Freedom1990

In addition to peripheral things like journaling and counseling, I worked/still work an active 12-step program.

I walked around for many years with what I call a God-shaped hole inside of me.

I tried to fill that hole with drugs/booze/sex/relationships/approval/*insert temporary fix of choice here*.

My sponsor often reminds me to be honest, open, and willing in everything I do.

Am I approaching life honest, open, and willing, with open palms turned upwards, if you will?

Am I approaching life with a self-centered attitude, hoping to snatch what I can from others, a clenched fist, if you will?

I cannot have a conscious contact with God, and approach life in the latter description above.

It takes a lot of hard work, but it is so worth it.

roxiestone

What great insight you have, Stella. I'm kind of in the same boat. Recognizing that I am needing external validation is well over half the battle. I am sort of giving myself a talking to about it, something along these lines - asking these questions to try to get to what's triggering it:

Are you feeling unloved? Must that come from a romantic relationship? Your friends and family love you. Would you feel better if you saw them? It's normal and okay to want a romantic relationship and validation. What else would make you feel good?

Are you feeling underappreciated? Are you doing things with some expectations as to outcomes that are not being recognized?


I list my positive qualities - I have a "brag book", a book of me, where I write and list pictures of things, notes from my kid, any kuddos that come my way. And I just try to remind myself that my "thinking" is not always truth, sometimes it's just "quacking". If I'm feeling really needy, then I try to have a solo adventure of some sort - even if it's just getting into the car and going someplace new. There is something about doing things solo that reduces that need for validation, at least for me.

This is rambly and not cohesive, I apologize.

stella27

Work hard at being good: (1) at their job, (2) in their home life, (3) with their spouse, (4) as a parent, and (5) as an adult child with their own parents.

that's really the only thing in the lists that I do. I always say what I think; I don't avoid conflict; I really don't do too much for people...and I am kind of uncomfortable when people acknowledge what I have done --

I appreciate the comments - it's one reason I wonder how I stayed so long in a dysfunctional marriage - and had 3 children. I don't have addicted parents and grew up pretty normally -- just have some denial and pleasing tendencies...

I guess acknowledging the tendencies is the first step. I want to do things for the sake of doing the right thing - not because they will be acknowledged.

aboutdone

Step Ten: Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

My understanding of a moral inventory is getting deep with yourself, listing both positive and negatives. So for me working a ten step is important daily and helps with this way of thinking. Going back over the day, and examining where I could have handled things differently, and focusing on the things that I did well.

I too, like to have the pat on the back when I do a good job. However at the end of the day, what really matters is if I am right with my HP, then that is all I need.

stella27

I know - the "denial of family-of-origin problems" is sticky because you either admit that you have them (and so you're a natural codie) or you don't see it, so you must be in denial.

As was discussed elsewhere today, my mom is an ACOA, but she was pretty atypical - she somehow raised herself in an al-anon fashion without the benefit of al-anon. I do think I always wanted her approval and involvement and never felt like I really got it. As an adult, she is a great mom, but she was not a nurturer/caregiving sweet mommy. I didn't understand this as a child, but I see it now. And I always wanted to please my dad. He wasn't hard to please, but he did have high expectations of us. So I do have the tendency to want to please...

I do give myself recognition for what I do, but I am irritated if others don't recognize it. And then I'm embarrassed if they make a big deal out of it.

LaTeeDa

Gotta disagree with this. I don't think you must have "family-of-origin problems" to be codependent. Society (at least in the US) is mostly dysfunctional in the sense that codependent behaviors are not only condoned, but encouraged. Depending on which messages you internalize, I think just growing up in this country, in present culture, can foster codependence.

Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, because I have a really screwed-up family of origin, but when I look around at the messages bombarding all of us, every day, I wonder..........

L

stella27

like what, LTD?

LaTeeDa

Oh man. Once you get me started, you may be sorry you asked, lol.

How about the advertisements that are meant to convince us we need to be thinner, look younger, have whiter teeth, firmer thighs, bigger breasts, nicer clothes, faster cars.....

Or the songs, movies, tv shows, books that show us the "once in a lifetime love," "you complete me," "can't live without you," "you are my everything."

We're taught from day one that we are not good enough as we are, and must strive for some ideal that is impossible to attain.

I read a couple of years ago that the most requested high school graduation gift that year by girls was a breast enlargement. How sick is a society where perfectly healthy, young girls with their whole life ahead of them, want to go under the knife for bigger boobs more than anything else?

L

Thumper

Wow, I would never have described myself as someone that needs approval but I identified with so many of those traits that Anvil posted I will have to re-look at all that.

Stella, you sure have a lot of self-awareness. I hope to someday have even 1/2 that !!

stella27

oh, please, Thumper -- I am just trying to figure out how to get from point A to point B in my screwed-up life. I have to be honest with myself at the very least. No one else has to know what drives me (except y'all.)

LTD: I agree with all that. I didn't consider it codependent-making, though.

Here's an example of how I think (that is so screwed-up):

If I do X for Unattached Man, he will realize how smart/capable/concerned/loving/sweet I am and he will fall in love with me. And we will all live happily ever after.

Then I think: who am I kidding? I am 30 lbs overweight, I have 3 young children, I have a difficult (putting it mildly) XH, I drive a minivan. He would NEVER be interested in me.

Then: but I do have some attractive, grown-up characteristics that would appeal to ME if I were a man.

But I am not even divorced yet, so I can't even think about dating.

So there's this crazy back-and-forth inner dialogue going on all the time.

LaTeeDa

Well, like I said, it depends on which messages you internalize. Many people manage to navigate all the garbage and remain relatively healthy. But.........

Gee, it almost sounds like.....um.......a movie? Doesn't matter which one, any romantic comedy probably contains this kind of magical thinking, no?

Ah, but I don't fit the "ideal," so I need to change myself in order to be attractive. Maybe if I buy some of that anti-aging cream, go on Jenny Craig, ditch the minivan for one of those new, fast sports cars..........

Maybe this is the healthy part of you, trying to be heard?

You can think about anything you like . But, you might want to wait before you act on it, lol.

L

Bolina

As an adjunt to what LTD said (and I agree wholeheartedly with her thoughts on the messages we pick up from society), one of the best things I ever did on this score was getting TiVo. I didn't get it for this purpose, but once I stopped watching ads, I started to see the world differently. I stopped buying magazines, although they were never a big part of my life, tbf. Especially one of the self-development orientated ones that was crammed with full page ads for make-up and beauty creams and the like. Once i had cut down my exposure to ads, those leapt out at me and made me think "wtf? your editorial is all about accepting yourself for who you are and blah, blah, blah, but you are reinforcing the message that you need all this **** to be a "better" version of that person!"

I then stopped buying newspapers and began sourcing my news online from a variety of places. Including sites where I had formerly bought the print copy, but if I see one now, the "buy me and you'll be a better/sexier/more successful person" color spreads just leap out. And not in a good way. I don't have to see that on-line.

TiVo also meant that I was watching some great shows and films and not channel hopping through layers of dung that just said "you are not as good as these people" or, more sadly, "look at these idiots, at least you are not like them!" which I find really distasteful. Or a million shows whose central premise is laughing at the mentally ill in the early rounds and getting people to judge based on a tiny, heavily edited selection of a person's ability and character.

I also joined a film club that shows non-Hollywood type movies which are much more "real" than the pap that is shown in the big movie theaters. Rom-coms and inane action movies are a scourge on this planet, imho.

As a result, I am more "me". I have partially stepped out of the the whole mainstream consumerist baloney and I am so much more peaceful without it. I keep mildly up to speed on that stuff so that I am not a total social pariah, but I am totally detached from it now.

And all because I wanted to be able to live-pause if the phone rang!!

Oops, have not answered your OP at all, but seem to have had LTD's rant for her. Sorry.

roxiestone

Bolina - I love that! I've done something similar - I've given up what I like to call "lifestyle porn" - all the magazines that tell me what I should have, where I should live, what eyelash curler to buy, how I should look in my clothes, etc. All it did for me was trigger feelings of lack. As a result, I'm much happier with the things I do have and my wallet has opened fewer times. As for keeping up with the Jones', they no longer live in my neighborhood.

Like you, I also limit my exposure to other negative things as well. For example, while I get most of my news online, the only website where I actually read comments is SR! No use letting that negative energy in!

Bolina

Been thinking on this thread since I last posted because I think the kind of thinking in your OP is at the heart of so much pain that I have subjected myself to, and I can see it time and time again on the boards. And IRL. Not a criticism, btw, simply an observation. I admire you for being so self-aware and able to catch those thoughts - that is such a fundamental part of this wonderful thing we call recovery.

I did it for years. For me, I think it stemmed from some of my emotional needs not being met when I was very young and my mother was very ill after having my younger brother. She was in hospital for some time and detatched when she was at home and I spent the rest of my childhood (and lots of my adult life) tip-toeing around her so that she wasn't upset and wouldn't "check out" again. My father and brother did the same and still do to a certain extent. So, I learnt how to people-please from about age 3. I wanted someone to notice ME, to appreciate ME for who I was rather then what I did, yet still put myself out for others at my own expense (martyr anyone?) and then got angry and resentful when they didn't even notice, dammit. When I think back, I see that I was pretty arrogant in my thinking. I try and focus much more on enjoying my friends and relations as people now, accepting them for who they are, not taking everything so very personally.

How did I change my thinking? Well, I haven't entirely, but most of the time I do OK. It's difficult to pinpoint exactly how I changed because all of the things I learnt in recovery fit in together, like a patchwork quilt. Changing my expectations of others helped, figuring out my core values did too. Like helping someone because I believe in the golden rule and I am a pay it forward/pay it back kinda gal, rather than because I want kudos for it. Playing the long game makes sense to me as well - the ebb and flow of life takes place over years not days or weeks. And my thinking tends towards the greater community as well rather than one to one exchanges of acts for thanks. As a small example, I let people out of side junctions if I am on a main road because I want to live in a society where people do that. I know some people who wouldn't do that because other people don't do it for them. It has to start somewhere, I believe.

I also think that I was far too much enmeshed in other people. I didn't really understand where they ended and I began. Learning about detachment and, as a consequence, much more respectful of other people allowed me to allow them the dignity of making their own decisions instead of thinking I knew best. "Wait to be asked" has become my mantra and using active listening instead of being a rampant advice giver has helped my friendships so much. Of course, I am far from perfect and I have a tendency to slip into old ways on SR.

Ramble over, although there are more thoughts semi-formed in my brain. And I haven't even touched on my addemdum to my previous post - I was going to mention FaceBook and the like and the effect that can have on relationships, enmeshment and shallowness, but I can't be bothered. I'm sure there are thousands of words on the web about it already.

LaTeeDa

Okay, when I first read this, I thought is was some kind of metaphor for traveling our own road in life, and letting others travel theirs, lol.

Then, I went out to run some errands on my lunch break, and it hit me that driving really is the perfect metaphor for life and recovery! I observed people rushing to get in front of me on the road, only to turn at the next driveway, going the wrong way down the rows in the parking lot in order to get to the empty space before someone else, speeding right by the crosswalk where someone was waiting to cross, and even an older woman who flipped a u-turn in the middle of a busy street without even bothering to look around to see if there were other cars coming!

And that's how I used to go about life! Hurrying up to get to the next destination, only so I could hurry through that and get to the next one. Not paying attention to anything or anyone around me, unless I wanted something from them, or they were impeding my progress.

These days, I stop for the person waiting to cross--even when they aren't in the crosswalk. I am the one who slows down when two lanes are merging, rather than the one who guns it. And, I'm not interested in competing for the closest parking spot at the grocery store. I don't mind the walk.

I continue to be amazed at the joy and peace recovery brings me every day. And I can't help but pity all the people I see rushing through life, not realizing how short it really is.........

L

Bolina

Well, it does work as a metaphor for life, but you might have noticed that I tend to signpost any metaphors in neon because I love them so much!

I think I just attempt to approach the wider world with a Ghandi-like "be the change you wish to see" mentality. Naturally, I fail at this a lot, but that's my motivation and I'm working on it.

It's amazing, though, how different the world seems when one takes a step back. Like you, I am astounded by the amount of strife people cause by their attitude and approach, as you saw when driving about. I am sure I used to be no different. I am working in a job at the moment that involves lots of contact with external users of our systems. I took a call from someone earlier who was really riled, partly because she has spoken previously to a colleague who was less than helpful and somewhat rude. After we had finished our call, she was no further on with her problem but she ended up thanking ME. Because I had listened, agreed with her frustrations, explained clearly what the problem was her end, given her a few things to try and, most importantly, didn't take it personally. My colleague had done some of those things, but didn't really listen, didn't empathise, was in a hurry to end the call and took it personally (he has form on this). What a difference! And I (and she) has recovery to thank for that. Don't know if it can be taught, although many attempt it in a corporate setting.

Oops, another derail. Hope some part of these last posts have been helpful, stella, if only to show you how all encompassing this recovery lark is - it really is NOT about the alcoholic.