What part of the court order did he not get?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 693
What part of the court order did he not get?
stbxah just called because I had emailed him and asked if he was picking up the kids tomorrow after daycare/daycamp since it is his weekend.
He called and these were the plans he laid out to me:
There is a court order that prohibits stbxah (and me--because what he has to do so do I regardless of who has the problem) to drink or use any controlled substances 12 hours BEFORE and during visitation. So, he will drink Friday night, he will get high and drink Saturday night thus breaking the judge's order at least twice-3 times if he you want to do the legal thing and say he is drinking/using within 12 hours of having the kids when he takes them on Sunday.
Part of me wants to tell him he has visitation Friday night until Sunday afternoon--but I don't want him drinking and then putting the kids in the car and driving. I did email him back and ask him why he would make plans to attend a cocktail party on a weekend when he had the kids and reminding him of the court order. I wish I had a smiley for a gesture a friend of mine has made when referring to stbxah. You know how you put your forefinger and thumb in the shape of an L on your forehead for LOSER. Well just remove the forefinger and add the middle finger for a new meaning--a loser of grand proportions.
He called and these were the plans he laid out to me:
There is a court order that prohibits stbxah (and me--because what he has to do so do I regardless of who has the problem) to drink or use any controlled substances 12 hours BEFORE and during visitation. So, he will drink Friday night, he will get high and drink Saturday night thus breaking the judge's order at least twice-3 times if he you want to do the legal thing and say he is drinking/using within 12 hours of having the kids when he takes them on Sunday.
Part of me wants to tell him he has visitation Friday night until Sunday afternoon--but I don't want him drinking and then putting the kids in the car and driving. I did email him back and ask him why he would make plans to attend a cocktail party on a weekend when he had the kids and reminding him of the court order. I wish I had a smiley for a gesture a friend of mine has made when referring to stbxah. You know how you put your forefinger and thumb in the shape of an L on your forehead for LOSER. Well just remove the forefinger and add the middle finger for a new meaning--a loser of grand proportions.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: minneapolis, mn
Posts: 2,762
Man, what a drag. Methinks this "not understanding" the court order will likely continue. Is there a consequence for him not following it?
It sounds like he's gonna do whatever he wants, when he wants, and the thing is, as you've said, you're not going to jeopardize your children's welfare (emotionally as well as physically) for the sake of having your own plans, or making a point.
I think it's classic behavior to not always hear the parts that they don't wish to.
It sounds like he's gonna do whatever he wants, when he wants, and the thing is, as you've said, you're not going to jeopardize your children's welfare (emotionally as well as physically) for the sake of having your own plans, or making a point.
I think it's classic behavior to not always hear the parts that they don't wish to.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Quebec
Posts: 2,708
oh but the court order doesn't apply to *him*...it's for the OTHER guy, but oh no, not for him! And he isn't really "drinking", he's just "socializing where there will be alcohol"....
Yah. Right.
I'm glad you've changed your plans to make sure your children are safe. Perhaps you should have just emailed him the relevant paragraph of your court order and told him he can come visit the kids on Sunday, preferably after he's sobered up from Saturday night.
Yah. Right.
I'm glad you've changed your plans to make sure your children are safe. Perhaps you should have just emailed him the relevant paragraph of your court order and told him he can come visit the kids on Sunday, preferably after he's sobered up from Saturday night.
A Pirate looks at 40
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southeast of Disorder (FL)
Posts: 264
What process do you have to go thru to enforce what the court orders say? I am just curious, and if you do not know you might want to find out for future reference in case he keeps this up.
I am not familiar either. I have just heard horror stories from co-workers and others about getting court orders enforced when it comes to domestic relations, well all except child support, and anything to do with domestic violence.
I am not familiar either. I have just heard horror stories from co-workers and others about getting court orders enforced when it comes to domestic relations, well all except child support, and anything to do with domestic violence.
Occasional poor taste poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
How bout... if you plan to drink this weekend then plan to see the kids next weekend. You're being way too nice.. me thinks. Why is he scheduling all this other crap during his visitation time anyway?!?!? That use to really frost me back when S and I first split up. I would never make plans that I could not include my kids in during the times I had them. Simple. She wanted me to jump through hoops to accommodate her social life. No way.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 693
coffee and pierat-if he drinks he is in contempt of court. I was told if I suspect he is drinking when he arrives that I do not let him take the kids. If he puts up a stink I call the police and they will decide if he has been drinking. The no drinking/drugging is part of the custody/placment order and has already been signed by the judge. If he does it, he is in contempt of court and can be fined and tossed in jail. Also, older DS has an emergency phone so if he thinks Daddy has been drinking he can call me and I will come pick them up. Same deal--he puts up a stink I call the police--and have the custody/placement order in hand prohibiting alcohol/drug consumption.
My take is also that he is already in contempt for child support for a fairly hefty amount so perhaps he does not care if he is in contempt for custody and placement issues. Then when he does not get to see the kids guess who gets labeled the big bad meanie?
I have to have my lawyer file a contempt motion if he is caught drinking/drugging--then the judge will do what he will do. That I cannot predict. Depends on the judge.
Jazzman I do not think it makes any difference which weekend he has the kids--he has only kept them for an entire weekend twice in 10 months. Part of that is he was not living in a suitable place and the judge would not let him have overnights until he found a place to live. But like coffee said--it has nothing to do with the kids--they need to fit into his schedle. He does not think--I have the kids this weekend so I should not make plans to (fill in the blank).
He has been in his apartment for a couple months now--and has kept them the whole time once--and during that time he went to a concert with his friend who is having the cocktail party and left the kids with her daughter and son. He has found a new codie/enabler (almost an encourager)--she is even married. He does not see any problems with all the time she spends with him. I am sure they think I am "totally crazy".
Also he did not tell me on that occasion that he had left the kids with a sitter (which also puts him in contempt because I have the right of first refusal).
The rules never apply to him for ANYTHING.
My take is also that he is already in contempt for child support for a fairly hefty amount so perhaps he does not care if he is in contempt for custody and placement issues. Then when he does not get to see the kids guess who gets labeled the big bad meanie?
I have to have my lawyer file a contempt motion if he is caught drinking/drugging--then the judge will do what he will do. That I cannot predict. Depends on the judge.
Jazzman I do not think it makes any difference which weekend he has the kids--he has only kept them for an entire weekend twice in 10 months. Part of that is he was not living in a suitable place and the judge would not let him have overnights until he found a place to live. But like coffee said--it has nothing to do with the kids--they need to fit into his schedle. He does not think--I have the kids this weekend so I should not make plans to (fill in the blank).
He has been in his apartment for a couple months now--and has kept them the whole time once--and during that time he went to a concert with his friend who is having the cocktail party and left the kids with her daughter and son. He has found a new codie/enabler (almost an encourager)--she is even married. He does not see any problems with all the time she spends with him. I am sure they think I am "totally crazy".
Also he did not tell me on that occasion that he had left the kids with a sitter (which also puts him in contempt because I have the right of first refusal).
The rules never apply to him for ANYTHING.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,335
There is a court order that prohibits stbxah (and me--because what he has to do so do I regardless of who has the problem) to drink or use any controlled substances 12 hours BEFORE and during visitation.
Then when he does not get to see the kids guess who gets labeled the big bad meanie?
A Pirate looks at 40
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southeast of Disorder (FL)
Posts: 264
Originally Posted by Wife2Kids 
coffee and pierat-if he drinks he is in contempt of court. I was told if I suspect he is drinking when he arrives that I do not let him take the kids. If he puts up a stink I call the police and they will decide if he has been drinking. The no drinking/drugging is part of the custody/placment order and has already been signed by the judge. If he does it, he is in contempt of court and can be fined and tossed in jail. Also, older DS has an emergency phone so if he thinks Daddy has been drinking he can call me and I will come pick them up. Same deal--he puts up a stink I call the police--and have the custody/placement order in hand prohibiting alcohol/drug consumption.
Gotcha!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 693
Originally Posted by Jazzman
And he'll squeeze them in the schedule on Sunday like Father of the year. What a dick.
kitty-you are right--and I am already the big bad meanie because it is my fault we do not live together anymore. Younger DS has been having a really hard time and when he says his prayers at night (we stopped doing the rote prayer and started to talk to God so the kids could know that they do have me and a lot of other people who love them--but they also have God who loves them). Every night he cries and asks God to make Mama and Daddy live together again. It breaks my heart. Later I tell him Mama and Daddy are not going to live together again and briefly remind him why.
It is hard to file a contempt order if the police do not show up because it would be his word against mine. The only other thing would be if they questioned the kids--which they have not done. I would like to keep them far from the court stuff. They have enough on their plate without getting involved in that.
Occasional poor taste poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
Originally Posted by Wife2Kids
Jazz-Yep-he is. But his kids still love him regadless.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,335
I'm sorry. I know it sucks. I'm the meanie but I just don't care. I tell my son that I am the mommy and it is my job to take care of him. Your dad has his own way of doing things and that is his choice.
Your ex will never take responsibility for what has happened. I had to let the whole concept of "meanie" and fault go. Afterall, it was my choice - my choice not to live with an addict anymore. And that is a good thing for me and for my kids by way of me. It's not about fault. It's about living a healthy, sane life.
Try repeating this over and over:
This is not your fault. No matter where mom and dad live, you will always have two parents who love you. This is about change, not blame. Life will be different and that's ok. Mom and Dad will always love you.
I am already the big bad meanie because it is my fault we do not live together anymore.
Every night he cries and asks God to make Mama and Daddy live together again.
This is not your fault. No matter where mom and dad live, you will always have two parents who love you. This is about change, not blame. Life will be different and that's ok. Mom and Dad will always love you.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 693
kitty I say that every night. I also tell him that we are still his family-just a different kind of family. My kids have other issues because they are adopted and were neglected (and possibly abused--at least younger DS) the first year of their lives.
It is scary that Daddy is gone because he did something "bad"--that is what they think in their little minds. "If I do something bad will Mama leave me?" That is tossed on top of all the other sad feelings. So on top of this is not your fault I always say the thing that will never change is that Mama loves you and Daddy loves you. Mama is not leaving you ever. I will always love you and I will always be your Mama--nothing can change that-nothing. We have lots and lots of books that are age appropriate that we read--one is Harriet, You Drive Me Wild that really helps my younger son--basically says, no matter what you do I'm your Mama and I will love you.
Older DS has always had serious abandonment issues--so this does not help. However, he also suffered severe verbal abuse and possibly some physical abuse from stbxah. He knows why we left and understands why we are not going back.
Jazz-it is true. My older son yearns for his birth mom and she will not even acknowledge his existence. His take on this--she knew he was not going to be a good kid so she got rid of him right away. It is very sad. I asked a friend who had a baby to let us come in and see her the next day so he could see what a one day old baby looks like-because that is how old he was when she left him at the hospital. It helped him a little to see that a little baby like that could never not be loved and that he did deserve all the love he did not get that first year of life. But all the security can be gone in a flash with a few harsh words from his dad. I have had to have him look me in the face and say over and over--I am a good kid. My Dad is wrong. I am a good kid and I deserve to be loved.
As I think about all this--you are right Jazz--he is a major dick.
It is scary that Daddy is gone because he did something "bad"--that is what they think in their little minds. "If I do something bad will Mama leave me?" That is tossed on top of all the other sad feelings. So on top of this is not your fault I always say the thing that will never change is that Mama loves you and Daddy loves you. Mama is not leaving you ever. I will always love you and I will always be your Mama--nothing can change that-nothing. We have lots and lots of books that are age appropriate that we read--one is Harriet, You Drive Me Wild that really helps my younger son--basically says, no matter what you do I'm your Mama and I will love you.
Older DS has always had serious abandonment issues--so this does not help. However, he also suffered severe verbal abuse and possibly some physical abuse from stbxah. He knows why we left and understands why we are not going back.
Jazz-it is true. My older son yearns for his birth mom and she will not even acknowledge his existence. His take on this--she knew he was not going to be a good kid so she got rid of him right away. It is very sad. I asked a friend who had a baby to let us come in and see her the next day so he could see what a one day old baby looks like-because that is how old he was when she left him at the hospital. It helped him a little to see that a little baby like that could never not be loved and that he did deserve all the love he did not get that first year of life. But all the security can be gone in a flash with a few harsh words from his dad. I have had to have him look me in the face and say over and over--I am a good kid. My Dad is wrong. I am a good kid and I deserve to be loved.
As I think about all this--you are right Jazz--he is a major dick.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Quebec
Posts: 2,708
Reading your last response about your children's struggle with abandonment and your separation made my eyes well up with tears. God these kids have been through the wringer.
You're a really stupendous mama
You're a really stupendous mama
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,913
Like Noday, I'm tearing up reading your post and I agree with her. You are an amazing Mom. Your kids are so lucky to have you in their life.
I'm sorry that you're all going through this and wish you strength, peace and a good weekend without the influence of the stbxah's ignorant, hurtful and selfish behavior.
I'm sorry that you're all going through this and wish you strength, peace and a good weekend without the influence of the stbxah's ignorant, hurtful and selfish behavior.
aboutdone
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: midwest
Posts: 191
Well, here is my take on it....and trust me, I have dealt with this crap for 4 years now with the first Ex.
1. You can usually buy a 10 panel drug test at the courthouse for around $6. The party has to pee on it in front of you and await the results before visitation, exchange may take place.
2. You can buy alcohol swabs online, I am not sure of the price, I think around $50 for a kit of them, and again must swab in front of you, and await the results before visitation, or exchange may take place.
3. Weekend visitation is set. Either you take them the entire weekend, or you take them not at all. I HAVE A LIFE NOW THAT DOES NOT REVOLVE AROUND YOU OR YOUR SCHEDULE. This one is hard for them to get. I don't micromanage the Exs life. Period. You want to see your kids then be here at 5pm Friday, clean and sober. If you are going to be late, you better have someone else pick them up at 5pm, and they better be clean and sober. Period. If you made plans on your weekend or you can not take them the entire time, that is fine, you forgo your entire weekend visitation. Period.
4. Kids come home at 5pm on Sunday. If you are late. I call the PD and file a missing childrens report, naming you as the probable abductor. I provide them with the court documents in hand stating what time you were returning them.
5. I have had to completely reschedule my weekend because he had plans on one day of it. That is fine. I am more than happy to have my kids all the extra time you want to give me.
It probably sounds like I am a biatch, and I am. I really love the little court order about no drug and alcohol use, and then they give you some BS about you need to call the PD to prove it. BS. Ask your lawyer about obtaining these testing devices, and for arguments sake, request that all pick up drop offs be done at the PD, for their 3rd party witness of testing or administering the tests.
And document, document, document!!!
I would personally go pick up kids early myself OR notify the camp they are not to leave until whatever time, and they are only to leave with you. I would go no contact for the weekend with him. I would document all of it.
Basically, screw him. It is not your job to change your schedule so he can see his kids when it is convenient for him. It totally blows for your kids. It is a lot for them to deal with, and yes, you may look like the bad guy, but look at it this way. You are protecting your children from more abandonment, possible drug/alcohol use in their presence.
As for Fathers Day, I gave my kids the option of making their Dad something for Fathers Day. They drew him some pictures. I am not going out of my way for him at all.
My kids are learning the hard way that life isn't fair, and their being taught from one of the people who is not supposed to teach them that lesson directly. It breaks my heart when they want to know why Daddy doesn't have time for them, or why doesn't Daddy answer the phone. I let them form their own opinions. I know he doesn't answer the phone because he is sitting at the bar. I know he doesn't have time for them because he is at the bar. You may think I am mean, but if my kids want to talk to their Dad, I hand them the phone, and let them dial the number and leave the voice mail. I let them answer the phone the rest of the evening. That way they know I am not lying to them, when they ask him why he didn't answer or call, and he tries to say I never told him they wanted to talk to him, they know he is lying.
When he tells them he can't see them because he is working out of town, I put them in the car and nonchalantly drive by the local bar where his truck is parked right out front. They see it and say, Daddy said he was working out of town, I say, hmm, wonder what happened.
I will be damned if I am going to let him lie and manipulate our children and have them believe its my fault.
At the end of the day, I am here. I am here 24/7 for my children, everyday, all day. There is nothing in my life more important than my kids. No party, no bar, no significant other. No nothing. They know Mom is consistent, I do what I say, I say what I mean, and I don't lie to them. I don't sugarcoat or cover up his BS. They know they can always count on me, even if they don't like the answer, I am going to shoot it to them straight. They know I will always be the one, rain or shine, day or night, that will be here to hold them, hug them, love them...unconditionally. And if that means they get a little upset about my decisions at times when I choose to do what is best for them, then so be it. I am sorry their Dad doesn't want to be in their lifes. I am sorry Mr. Bud Light takes precedence most days, but I am not sorry enough to let him pull one ounce of crap when it comes to using around my kids or adjusting the schedule. My kids go through enough, thanks to his BS. You know?
Oh, and sorry I got off on a little rant. No offense at all. Just something I am very passionate about.
1. You can usually buy a 10 panel drug test at the courthouse for around $6. The party has to pee on it in front of you and await the results before visitation, exchange may take place.
2. You can buy alcohol swabs online, I am not sure of the price, I think around $50 for a kit of them, and again must swab in front of you, and await the results before visitation, or exchange may take place.
3. Weekend visitation is set. Either you take them the entire weekend, or you take them not at all. I HAVE A LIFE NOW THAT DOES NOT REVOLVE AROUND YOU OR YOUR SCHEDULE. This one is hard for them to get. I don't micromanage the Exs life. Period. You want to see your kids then be here at 5pm Friday, clean and sober. If you are going to be late, you better have someone else pick them up at 5pm, and they better be clean and sober. Period. If you made plans on your weekend or you can not take them the entire time, that is fine, you forgo your entire weekend visitation. Period.
4. Kids come home at 5pm on Sunday. If you are late. I call the PD and file a missing childrens report, naming you as the probable abductor. I provide them with the court documents in hand stating what time you were returning them.
5. I have had to completely reschedule my weekend because he had plans on one day of it. That is fine. I am more than happy to have my kids all the extra time you want to give me.
It probably sounds like I am a biatch, and I am. I really love the little court order about no drug and alcohol use, and then they give you some BS about you need to call the PD to prove it. BS. Ask your lawyer about obtaining these testing devices, and for arguments sake, request that all pick up drop offs be done at the PD, for their 3rd party witness of testing or administering the tests.
And document, document, document!!!
I would personally go pick up kids early myself OR notify the camp they are not to leave until whatever time, and they are only to leave with you. I would go no contact for the weekend with him. I would document all of it.
Basically, screw him. It is not your job to change your schedule so he can see his kids when it is convenient for him. It totally blows for your kids. It is a lot for them to deal with, and yes, you may look like the bad guy, but look at it this way. You are protecting your children from more abandonment, possible drug/alcohol use in their presence.
As for Fathers Day, I gave my kids the option of making their Dad something for Fathers Day. They drew him some pictures. I am not going out of my way for him at all.
My kids are learning the hard way that life isn't fair, and their being taught from one of the people who is not supposed to teach them that lesson directly. It breaks my heart when they want to know why Daddy doesn't have time for them, or why doesn't Daddy answer the phone. I let them form their own opinions. I know he doesn't answer the phone because he is sitting at the bar. I know he doesn't have time for them because he is at the bar. You may think I am mean, but if my kids want to talk to their Dad, I hand them the phone, and let them dial the number and leave the voice mail. I let them answer the phone the rest of the evening. That way they know I am not lying to them, when they ask him why he didn't answer or call, and he tries to say I never told him they wanted to talk to him, they know he is lying.
When he tells them he can't see them because he is working out of town, I put them in the car and nonchalantly drive by the local bar where his truck is parked right out front. They see it and say, Daddy said he was working out of town, I say, hmm, wonder what happened.
I will be damned if I am going to let him lie and manipulate our children and have them believe its my fault.
At the end of the day, I am here. I am here 24/7 for my children, everyday, all day. There is nothing in my life more important than my kids. No party, no bar, no significant other. No nothing. They know Mom is consistent, I do what I say, I say what I mean, and I don't lie to them. I don't sugarcoat or cover up his BS. They know they can always count on me, even if they don't like the answer, I am going to shoot it to them straight. They know I will always be the one, rain or shine, day or night, that will be here to hold them, hug them, love them...unconditionally. And if that means they get a little upset about my decisions at times when I choose to do what is best for them, then so be it. I am sorry their Dad doesn't want to be in their lifes. I am sorry Mr. Bud Light takes precedence most days, but I am not sorry enough to let him pull one ounce of crap when it comes to using around my kids or adjusting the schedule. My kids go through enough, thanks to his BS. You know?
Oh, and sorry I got off on a little rant. No offense at all. Just something I am very passionate about.
aboutdone
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: midwest
Posts: 191
Oh yeah, and I really didn't use to be like this. I use to be really nice, thinking that working around his schedule was the right thing to do, because at least my kids got to see their Dad.
Until it was all the time, every time that I was going through schedule issues with him or some kind of crap.
I love my kids, and I show it through my actions everyday, its about time he does too.
Seriously check into those drug tests and alcohol tests. He is pushing the court order to the limit thinking the burden of proof is on you. So turn the table, put it in your favor, and put the burden of proof on him. It is up to you, to make him abide by the court orders. Nobody else will. The more you let him slide, the more he will take advantage of the situation.
Mine even took my 5 year old to a bar, and shared his beer with her. That was the straw that broke the camels back.
The man I was married to wouldn't have dreamed of doing this. Apparently through my niceness he didn't think there would be a problem. Now he knows I will not tolerate any of it.
Until it was all the time, every time that I was going through schedule issues with him or some kind of crap.
I love my kids, and I show it through my actions everyday, its about time he does too.
Seriously check into those drug tests and alcohol tests. He is pushing the court order to the limit thinking the burden of proof is on you. So turn the table, put it in your favor, and put the burden of proof on him. It is up to you, to make him abide by the court orders. Nobody else will. The more you let him slide, the more he will take advantage of the situation.
Mine even took my 5 year old to a bar, and shared his beer with her. That was the straw that broke the camels back.
The man I was married to wouldn't have dreamed of doing this. Apparently through my niceness he didn't think there would be a problem. Now he knows I will not tolerate any of it.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
