My long, sad, and not at all unfamiliar story
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Waltham, MA
Posts: 7
My long, sad, and not at all unfamiliar story
Hi everyone - I'm new to SR boards. My AH just completed a partial hospitalization program, dual diagnosis program. He has a neurological condition that causes chronic pain, and he had been prescribed morphine, which he was taking on an accelerated basis - self-medicating. He has also been in AA since Feb 2009, and in 2008, had been ordering pain meds online. He finished the program on Tuesday of last week, and that previous weekend, I had my best friend from college buy my plane ticket to her wedding (since I was unable to afford it) and I decided I would go. It was with a lot of trepidation, but he assured me he would be fine, our kids would be fine, and to enjoy myself and take care of myself. He's unemployed for the 3rd time in a year and a half, and money is very, very tight - almost non-existent. Before I left, I gave him money, with the request that he be able to account for most of what he spent with receipts. Yes, that's controlling and codependent behavior, but when money is limited, you have to do what you have to do.
When I returned home, he told a story about how on Friday night (I was gone from Friday morning to Sunday evening) the neighbors threw a party and they threw beers over the fence, which he had to clean up. He talked about yelling at the people in the morning, and made a comment about, "that's the last thing I need, for you to find beer cans." He asked his daughter, who visits every other weekend if they woke her, and then said, "no, you weren't here" because he didn't pick her up until Saturday - how convenient! While it sent up a red flag, I didn't confront him or make an issue out of it, because I was trying to not create drama or be so immediately distrustful. However, on Monday evening, when I asked to go over the receipts, he became very agitated and searched for receipts (which he had told me he had all ready), finally coming back with a list written out of what he spent and where. I told him that was unacceptable without the receipts, and he became angry. I left the room, and my mind returned to the story he told.
I came back and asked him if I went and found the beer cans in the trash, would his DNA be on them? I got sucked into the drama, and created my own. He said no, but when I went outside to the barrels to look, he chased after me, and I called out to his other daughter, who is 20 and lives with us. She came to help and had to get in between us, as he was very aggressively trying to get to me - he claims he was trying to help. Under several bags of trash from the garage which he had cleaned out over the weekend, I found a bag with beer cans in it - and the box from the 12 pack that they came in. I asked if the neighbors had thrown that over the fence too? I called his therapist, and asked him to talk to AH, to see if he would admit that he had drank, and his therapist asked him and AH said no, he hadn't, and his therapist told me that he had said no, and he had to believe AH. At the time, I was devastated that he was believing him, but in hindsight I see that he simply wasn't getting sucked into the drama, and that AH would only admit it when he was ready.
I changed tack, and said, if he had relapsed, it was ok, I wasn't angry, I just wanted him to get help. We could start over, day one, just admit it and get help. He refused for a long time, and I begged and pleaded for a long time. Finally, he admitted that he had drank 4, stopped and poured the rest out - none of which I really believe, but that's not important either way - bottom line, he drank, and lied elaborately about it. I asked him to call his therapist again, which he did, and admitted he had drank. He was scheduled to see him the next day anyway, so that was the entire conversation - he admitted he drank, therapist asked why he lied, and AH said because I had been in his face about it. We went inside, and he told his older daughter that he had drank, and she started to ask him about the lying, but I hugged her and told her it wasn't worth it right now, to go to bed. We went to bed and I held him, and we talked until almost 2am.
The next day, I called in sick, because I was so tired from the previous night. Until my trip, I had been holding his morphine, at his request, because he said he wasn't ready to have them by himself. When I left, I had left 6 pills, 2 for each day, the last of which he took when we got home from the airport. Monday morning, I had given him a bottle of 30 pills, which I had counted 2 times. He had offered to let me count them if I wanted to (I know, I know!) and so on Tuesday, I did, and there were only 26. There should have been 27 - 2 that he took on Monday, and the one from the morning of Tuesday would have been gone. I told him that a pill was missing - did not accuse him of taking it, just simply stated the fact that one was missing. He accused me of counting incorrectly, of not counting how many days should have passed correctly, etc, etc. I counted them in front of him, and counted a calendar with him. He insisted he hadn't taken it. He had hurt his toe, and wanted his dr to look at it, and I asked if I could go with him, so we could talk about his relapse. In the time that passed from the evening to the morning, he went back and forth between agreeing to reenter a program, to not needing that, but instead going to 2 meetings a day, and his therapist 2x a wk, and our couples counseling 2x a week, which I would not agree to. Then I was "forcing" him to go to a program, and I said no, I wasn't, however, I had to make decisions based on what he was going to do. His therapist had emailed me with pretty clear advice about detaching, and I asked if I could join their session to talk more about this detaching process, which he agreed to. In that session, his therapist agreed that the plan he had of simply attending meetings and seeing the various counselors was not enough, and gave him the recommendation of a different program to try.
He did call the program when we got home, but I haven't checked on him to see if he followed up. He was very angry with me, his therapist, his daughter, who has also begun detaching from him and his drama. Yesterday, he was home alone, and he called me at 3pm to tell me the pill had been found - on our bureau, under a receipt of mine, he was careful to point out. Was it possible I had counted pills there? I said no, as the bureau is up to my neck, and not really the best location to be counting. He asked if I thought he had taken the pill, and I said that was the logical explanation. He asked if I thought he had lied, and I again said that was the logical explanation.
He went to an AA meeting, and when he came home, he asked me what the "rules" were now, that I had changed. I said I hadn't changed, I still had the position that I would support him, if he got help. I was doing work, so we didn't really talk much after that, and when I was ready to go to bed, I told him so, and he responded that he thought he would sleep downstairs. I said, ok, that's fine - I know he wanted me to get upset, beg him to come upstairs, etc. He asked if he could have more money - I had given him $5 that day, he had a full tank of gas, and a cellphone, and the house was well stocked with food. I had asked him to use that $5 to pick up some things at the store on his way home, which he did, and he asked for the $5 back - I only had $3 and a $20, so I gave him the $3. He accused me of controlling him with money - I said, no, I don't have anything to give you, I need to keep that $20 in case we have any emergencies with the kids, they have to come first before you and whatever you want to spend the money on (cigarettes most likely, but who knows?). He asked if I had eaten at work, and I said, yes, a bagel, which cost $1.61, and he said that he deserved that at least, and I replied again, there is food in the house. Over and over, he came to our room to try and pick a fight with me, hoping I'd engage, but I wouldn't. He even told me that while his daughter and I were both detaching, she was doing a better job of it, she wasn't as cold as I was, she didn't lie to him about being there to support him.
I'm incredibly tired, and sad, and scared, but I know I'm doing the right thing. I have to figure out when he needs to be in a program by before I can make my next decisions, and we have couples counseling today, where I hope we can talk about some of these issues. I have 2 small children with him, and they, as well as my stepdaughters, are my priority - after taking care of me, of course! I just wanted to share what I'm going through, to hear the wisdom of those who have walked this road before. I know I have a lot of work as a raving codependent, to break out of this cycle, but I think I've made a good first step. I'd love to hear kind words of support, as well as any suggestions for how I might handle things in the future.
When I returned home, he told a story about how on Friday night (I was gone from Friday morning to Sunday evening) the neighbors threw a party and they threw beers over the fence, which he had to clean up. He talked about yelling at the people in the morning, and made a comment about, "that's the last thing I need, for you to find beer cans." He asked his daughter, who visits every other weekend if they woke her, and then said, "no, you weren't here" because he didn't pick her up until Saturday - how convenient! While it sent up a red flag, I didn't confront him or make an issue out of it, because I was trying to not create drama or be so immediately distrustful. However, on Monday evening, when I asked to go over the receipts, he became very agitated and searched for receipts (which he had told me he had all ready), finally coming back with a list written out of what he spent and where. I told him that was unacceptable without the receipts, and he became angry. I left the room, and my mind returned to the story he told.
I came back and asked him if I went and found the beer cans in the trash, would his DNA be on them? I got sucked into the drama, and created my own. He said no, but when I went outside to the barrels to look, he chased after me, and I called out to his other daughter, who is 20 and lives with us. She came to help and had to get in between us, as he was very aggressively trying to get to me - he claims he was trying to help. Under several bags of trash from the garage which he had cleaned out over the weekend, I found a bag with beer cans in it - and the box from the 12 pack that they came in. I asked if the neighbors had thrown that over the fence too? I called his therapist, and asked him to talk to AH, to see if he would admit that he had drank, and his therapist asked him and AH said no, he hadn't, and his therapist told me that he had said no, and he had to believe AH. At the time, I was devastated that he was believing him, but in hindsight I see that he simply wasn't getting sucked into the drama, and that AH would only admit it when he was ready.
I changed tack, and said, if he had relapsed, it was ok, I wasn't angry, I just wanted him to get help. We could start over, day one, just admit it and get help. He refused for a long time, and I begged and pleaded for a long time. Finally, he admitted that he had drank 4, stopped and poured the rest out - none of which I really believe, but that's not important either way - bottom line, he drank, and lied elaborately about it. I asked him to call his therapist again, which he did, and admitted he had drank. He was scheduled to see him the next day anyway, so that was the entire conversation - he admitted he drank, therapist asked why he lied, and AH said because I had been in his face about it. We went inside, and he told his older daughter that he had drank, and she started to ask him about the lying, but I hugged her and told her it wasn't worth it right now, to go to bed. We went to bed and I held him, and we talked until almost 2am.
The next day, I called in sick, because I was so tired from the previous night. Until my trip, I had been holding his morphine, at his request, because he said he wasn't ready to have them by himself. When I left, I had left 6 pills, 2 for each day, the last of which he took when we got home from the airport. Monday morning, I had given him a bottle of 30 pills, which I had counted 2 times. He had offered to let me count them if I wanted to (I know, I know!) and so on Tuesday, I did, and there were only 26. There should have been 27 - 2 that he took on Monday, and the one from the morning of Tuesday would have been gone. I told him that a pill was missing - did not accuse him of taking it, just simply stated the fact that one was missing. He accused me of counting incorrectly, of not counting how many days should have passed correctly, etc, etc. I counted them in front of him, and counted a calendar with him. He insisted he hadn't taken it. He had hurt his toe, and wanted his dr to look at it, and I asked if I could go with him, so we could talk about his relapse. In the time that passed from the evening to the morning, he went back and forth between agreeing to reenter a program, to not needing that, but instead going to 2 meetings a day, and his therapist 2x a wk, and our couples counseling 2x a week, which I would not agree to. Then I was "forcing" him to go to a program, and I said no, I wasn't, however, I had to make decisions based on what he was going to do. His therapist had emailed me with pretty clear advice about detaching, and I asked if I could join their session to talk more about this detaching process, which he agreed to. In that session, his therapist agreed that the plan he had of simply attending meetings and seeing the various counselors was not enough, and gave him the recommendation of a different program to try.
He did call the program when we got home, but I haven't checked on him to see if he followed up. He was very angry with me, his therapist, his daughter, who has also begun detaching from him and his drama. Yesterday, he was home alone, and he called me at 3pm to tell me the pill had been found - on our bureau, under a receipt of mine, he was careful to point out. Was it possible I had counted pills there? I said no, as the bureau is up to my neck, and not really the best location to be counting. He asked if I thought he had taken the pill, and I said that was the logical explanation. He asked if I thought he had lied, and I again said that was the logical explanation.
He went to an AA meeting, and when he came home, he asked me what the "rules" were now, that I had changed. I said I hadn't changed, I still had the position that I would support him, if he got help. I was doing work, so we didn't really talk much after that, and when I was ready to go to bed, I told him so, and he responded that he thought he would sleep downstairs. I said, ok, that's fine - I know he wanted me to get upset, beg him to come upstairs, etc. He asked if he could have more money - I had given him $5 that day, he had a full tank of gas, and a cellphone, and the house was well stocked with food. I had asked him to use that $5 to pick up some things at the store on his way home, which he did, and he asked for the $5 back - I only had $3 and a $20, so I gave him the $3. He accused me of controlling him with money - I said, no, I don't have anything to give you, I need to keep that $20 in case we have any emergencies with the kids, they have to come first before you and whatever you want to spend the money on (cigarettes most likely, but who knows?). He asked if I had eaten at work, and I said, yes, a bagel, which cost $1.61, and he said that he deserved that at least, and I replied again, there is food in the house. Over and over, he came to our room to try and pick a fight with me, hoping I'd engage, but I wouldn't. He even told me that while his daughter and I were both detaching, she was doing a better job of it, she wasn't as cold as I was, she didn't lie to him about being there to support him.
I'm incredibly tired, and sad, and scared, but I know I'm doing the right thing. I have to figure out when he needs to be in a program by before I can make my next decisions, and we have couples counseling today, where I hope we can talk about some of these issues. I have 2 small children with him, and they, as well as my stepdaughters, are my priority - after taking care of me, of course! I just wanted to share what I'm going through, to hear the wisdom of those who have walked this road before. I know I have a lot of work as a raving codependent, to break out of this cycle, but I think I've made a good first step. I'd love to hear kind words of support, as well as any suggestions for how I might handle things in the future.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 685
Yikes - I have no advice to offer, so I will leave that up to everyone else. I just wanted to say that I'm sorry for what you are going through. That sounds extremely overwhelming. Might I ask how long you have been married?
I understand staying with someone because of children, but I firmly believe that sometimes, that can be WORSE. Whatever you do, stay for you, not them. It doesn't sound like you're financially dependent on him (as he is you), so that should help matters. You sound more like his mother, than his wife.
I'm very sorry for your struggles. I hope you figure something out. Just take care of you (and your kids) for now, and leave him to help himself. You cannot save him... and he doesn't really seem (to me at least) that he's all that serious about his recovery. It seems more so as a ploy to "shut you up".
I understand staying with someone because of children, but I firmly believe that sometimes, that can be WORSE. Whatever you do, stay for you, not them. It doesn't sound like you're financially dependent on him (as he is you), so that should help matters. You sound more like his mother, than his wife.
I'm very sorry for your struggles. I hope you figure something out. Just take care of you (and your kids) for now, and leave him to help himself. You cannot save him... and he doesn't really seem (to me at least) that he's all that serious about his recovery. It seems more so as a ploy to "shut you up".
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: England
Posts: 741
I'm not surprised you're tired, it sounds exhausting.
You do know that you can't control the alcoholism don't you? Because it sounds like you're wearing yourself out trying.
He's a grown man, why does he have "rules"? I can understand you needing to have boundaries, but boundaries should be about you and what you're willing to accept, not as a way to control him and make him behave how you think he should behave.
All you're doing is setting yourself up for disappointment.
Why isn't HE figuring out when he needs to be in a program? Why is everything you're doing revolving around what he's doing?
Detaching is sooo hard but soo worth it. My life and my head was literally BURSTING with his problems. I'd made them ALL my business. I took over his life, his responsibilities and then when he didn't behave as I wanted him to I would cry, scream, manipulate, guilt trip, scold, beg, expect...NOTHING works.
You can't control him, not successfully without going absolutely insane in the process at least.
The money thing is difficult, I would personally make sure bills and everything was covered but then what is his is his to do with as he pleases. There should be no need for receipts, no looking for beer cans, none of it.
Is it making any difference doing what you're doing? Are you happier? Do you have the husband you want? I dare say the answer is no.
You cannot be happy trying to control an active addict. I've tried. I used to cry myself to sleep EVERY night....literally every night for over a year. Until I found this site and learnt different ways to deal with it.
The solution (if you're not gonna leave him yet) is to focus on yourself and your kids. Ignore his drinking. Stop asking for receipts. Stop looking for beer cans. Stop trying to smell his breath, stop checking to see if his eyes are glazed, if he wobbles when he walks, don't listen for the slur in his words, give him ALL his pills and don't count them afterwards. Basically it means LETTING GO.
He's a grown man, he's not your child. Letting go is scary and difficult but these feelings you're having won't go away until YOU make changes and stop waiting for him to make them to make you happy.
*hugs*
You do know that you can't control the alcoholism don't you? Because it sounds like you're wearing yourself out trying.
He's a grown man, why does he have "rules"? I can understand you needing to have boundaries, but boundaries should be about you and what you're willing to accept, not as a way to control him and make him behave how you think he should behave.
All you're doing is setting yourself up for disappointment.
Why isn't HE figuring out when he needs to be in a program? Why is everything you're doing revolving around what he's doing?
Detaching is sooo hard but soo worth it. My life and my head was literally BURSTING with his problems. I'd made them ALL my business. I took over his life, his responsibilities and then when he didn't behave as I wanted him to I would cry, scream, manipulate, guilt trip, scold, beg, expect...NOTHING works.
You can't control him, not successfully without going absolutely insane in the process at least.
The money thing is difficult, I would personally make sure bills and everything was covered but then what is his is his to do with as he pleases. There should be no need for receipts, no looking for beer cans, none of it.
Is it making any difference doing what you're doing? Are you happier? Do you have the husband you want? I dare say the answer is no.
You cannot be happy trying to control an active addict. I've tried. I used to cry myself to sleep EVERY night....literally every night for over a year. Until I found this site and learnt different ways to deal with it.
The solution (if you're not gonna leave him yet) is to focus on yourself and your kids. Ignore his drinking. Stop asking for receipts. Stop looking for beer cans. Stop trying to smell his breath, stop checking to see if his eyes are glazed, if he wobbles when he walks, don't listen for the slur in his words, give him ALL his pills and don't count them afterwards. Basically it means LETTING GO.
He's a grown man, he's not your child. Letting go is scary and difficult but these feelings you're having won't go away until YOU make changes and stop waiting for him to make them to make you happy.
*hugs*
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,910
Tally said exactly what I was thinking and much better than I could have. What you have set up are rules, not boundaries. Boundaries are for YOU. Stick around and do a lot of reading. You'll find much wisdom and experience here. Many of us have been exactly where you are and have lived to tell about it.
Welcome to SR!
Welcome to SR!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Waltham, MA
Posts: 7
Thanks everyone for their feedback. No, there are no rules, but there is a boundary, I will not support active alcoholism in my house. That's why I put rules in quotes - that's of his creating. I don't know if another program would help, but what he's trying to do isn't working. I told him that was between himself and his therapist to decide what program was right, but that his therapist agreed that what he was trying to do wasn't working. The point of the receipt was only for my trip, and it's because there isn't enough to even pay the bills - I left him that money for incidentals, emergencies, and was hoping there would be a decent amount left, but there wasn't. I'm not creating a rule that he can only have $5 or $3 or whatever, it's just all that I have to give, which he refuses to accept. I told him that every dollar in the bank has a name on it, and that I needed to prioritize how that was distributed, and spending money wasn't on that list.
But, the advice you have all given, to stop counting pills, stop looking for beer cans, etc, that's in action now. This all has gone down in the past 48 hrs or so, and like I said, I'm not asking if he followed up with the program his therapist recommended, I didn't go researching the program. Most of his attempts to start a fight were aimed at my detaching - I was being cold, I had lied to him about being supportive. I mentioned in the original post that he remarked that the oldest was detaching as well, but she was doing a better job of it. He's very skilled at manipulation - knowing just what buttons to press on a codependent like myself. But I didn't give in! I told him that I wouldn't have that discussion, I was going to bed - calmly, coolly, business-like was how I described it, when he asked if I thought I was being cold. So, he's panicking, and perhaps that's a good thing, but who knows.
I am finally learning that I can't control an alcoholic, I can't control anything but myself. As you all know, it's HARD. But like I said, this is my first step, and I'm feeling good about it. The receipts, the beer cans, that's in the rearview mirror now - still pretty close, because it all just happened -- but getting further and further away every minute that I tell myself I am not responsible for his pain nor for his happiness, only mine.
But, the advice you have all given, to stop counting pills, stop looking for beer cans, etc, that's in action now. This all has gone down in the past 48 hrs or so, and like I said, I'm not asking if he followed up with the program his therapist recommended, I didn't go researching the program. Most of his attempts to start a fight were aimed at my detaching - I was being cold, I had lied to him about being supportive. I mentioned in the original post that he remarked that the oldest was detaching as well, but she was doing a better job of it. He's very skilled at manipulation - knowing just what buttons to press on a codependent like myself. But I didn't give in! I told him that I wouldn't have that discussion, I was going to bed - calmly, coolly, business-like was how I described it, when he asked if I thought I was being cold. So, he's panicking, and perhaps that's a good thing, but who knows.
I am finally learning that I can't control an alcoholic, I can't control anything but myself. As you all know, it's HARD. But like I said, this is my first step, and I'm feeling good about it. The receipts, the beer cans, that's in the rearview mirror now - still pretty close, because it all just happened -- but getting further and further away every minute that I tell myself I am not responsible for his pain nor for his happiness, only mine.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: back from the brink
Posts: 457
Gosh, I started feeling enabling just from reading your post. Sorry. (been there, done that).
You say that you can't control the alcoholic, but from reading your post, I'd say you've been doing so much of that trying to control. Fact is right now you are NOT even in control of yourself. The alcoholism really rubs off on us, destroys our common sense, clouds our judgement, puts us on the defense for every thought or word we have or speak.
You'll find the keys to detaching here, and after you find them and begin to see what your situation is, only then will you be able to make good decisions for your future.
Your "A", well, he's got his own boat to row. Difference between the two of you is you have the advantage - your mind isn't intoxicated! You just need some time and space to figure out what you want and how you are going to go about getting it.
Lots of help here, I can testify to that. Best wishes.
You say that you can't control the alcoholic, but from reading your post, I'd say you've been doing so much of that trying to control. Fact is right now you are NOT even in control of yourself. The alcoholism really rubs off on us, destroys our common sense, clouds our judgement, puts us on the defense for every thought or word we have or speak.
You'll find the keys to detaching here, and after you find them and begin to see what your situation is, only then will you be able to make good decisions for your future.
Your "A", well, he's got his own boat to row. Difference between the two of you is you have the advantage - your mind isn't intoxicated! You just need some time and space to figure out what you want and how you are going to go about getting it.
Lots of help here, I can testify to that. Best wishes.
Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Land of Cotton
Posts: 3,433
Maybe I'm just being nosey, but if money is so tight, how can you afford all those therapy sessions?
As for your boundary "I will not support active alcoholism"... maybe that needs to be defined more clearly..? Have you stated exactly what you WILL/WILL NOT do if you find that he is drinking/drugging?
As for your boundary "I will not support active alcoholism"... maybe that needs to be defined more clearly..? Have you stated exactly what you WILL/WILL NOT do if you find that he is drinking/drugging?
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,582
If the bank account has both names on it, then it is his too. You seem to be looking to an active addict to make mature responsible decisions...not gonna happen.
Open a new acount in YOUR name only if the money is yours.
The receipt thing is not going to work. Never done it, but I can see that active A will not adhere to the rules. A boundary you might set would be I will give you X amount of money for food. After that is gone, it is gone. No more. If he isn't responsible enough to care for the kids, then they need to stay elsewhere when you are not there. If he doesn't eat for days because he spends the money or wahtever, then so be it. Give money to a friend or neighbor without telling him. If there is an emergency the friend can "pay" for it with the money.
I feel for you. You must be drained. Controlling him will not work. Detaching and reassessing the relationship sounds in order.
Open a new acount in YOUR name only if the money is yours.
The receipt thing is not going to work. Never done it, but I can see that active A will not adhere to the rules. A boundary you might set would be I will give you X amount of money for food. After that is gone, it is gone. No more. If he isn't responsible enough to care for the kids, then they need to stay elsewhere when you are not there. If he doesn't eat for days because he spends the money or wahtever, then so be it. Give money to a friend or neighbor without telling him. If there is an emergency the friend can "pay" for it with the money.
I feel for you. You must be drained. Controlling him will not work. Detaching and reassessing the relationship sounds in order.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Wizard Land Downunder
Posts: 2,615
Miss Fixit, has a few good ideas here.....of course it is necessary to make sure the bills are paid, and if that is your job, so be it.....I have never been able to consider letting an A drink the house down around ones ears, as an aspect of detachment.....would I watch my house and contents burn and tell the firemen to detach? In a pigs eye.
Let him know you have boundaries that NO-ONE crosses, and one is NO drinking or drunks in the house.
I am sure you will get ideas and make your own up, to safeguard your sanity.
God bless
Let him know you have boundaries that NO-ONE crosses, and one is NO drinking or drunks in the house.
I am sure you will get ideas and make your own up, to safeguard your sanity.
God bless
A Pirate looks at 40
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southeast of Disorder (FL)
Posts: 264
Wow after reading your post I have to say I feel for you big time. I am dealing with an alcoholic wife as well, and there is children involved also. I know why your tired, trust me you are not alone in that area. You are in the right place here friend.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Waltham, MA
Posts: 7
Yes, the account is in my name only already, and I have the only ATM card, which I took on my trip, thus having to leave him money and ask for receipts. But, again - ALL DONE with the receipts! I WAS trying to control his behavior, and was just about out of control myself, but I am turning the corner and leaving that behind. I gave him $20 today and said that's all I have to give you until Monday, use it wisely.
Our therapy sessions cost a $15 copay, and I got paid today, which puts us on a little better footing. His individual counselor and our couples counselor have both offered to only have us pay one copay, even though he/we see them 2x a week.
My boundary was originally that I would not live in a house with an active addict, that he needed to be in a formal program, which he took to be as controlling. So his counselor phrased it the way I did above, that I will not support active alcoholism. He has an appt for intake a week from today, and has been doing what he committed to doing, which I didn't love, but in the interim, can accept - 2 meetings a day, plus the counseling. It's still a blurry line for me - if the boundary is for me, but there is an aspect that he has to be responsible for, how do I enforce that? Like, he's trying to get into this program, but if he doesn't - do I create a deadline? That's what I'm still struggling with - and I don't want to feel like I'm compromising my boundary saying that the home-made program he's trying to do is enough - but it kind of has to be for now, until he can get admitted into a program, you know?
So grateful for your advice and good thoughts!
Our therapy sessions cost a $15 copay, and I got paid today, which puts us on a little better footing. His individual counselor and our couples counselor have both offered to only have us pay one copay, even though he/we see them 2x a week.
My boundary was originally that I would not live in a house with an active addict, that he needed to be in a formal program, which he took to be as controlling. So his counselor phrased it the way I did above, that I will not support active alcoholism. He has an appt for intake a week from today, and has been doing what he committed to doing, which I didn't love, but in the interim, can accept - 2 meetings a day, plus the counseling. It's still a blurry line for me - if the boundary is for me, but there is an aspect that he has to be responsible for, how do I enforce that? Like, he's trying to get into this program, but if he doesn't - do I create a deadline? That's what I'm still struggling with - and I don't want to feel like I'm compromising my boundary saying that the home-made program he's trying to do is enough - but it kind of has to be for now, until he can get admitted into a program, you know?
So grateful for your advice and good thoughts!
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: VA
Posts: 85
I would have no problem paying the co-pay for my AH to go into some treatment or counseling program. IF he is the one making the decision to go, IF he is the one making the appointment, and IF he actually goes without any prompting/reminding from me. To do otherwise is a waste of money and time. I won't even mention it to him; if he wants to do it he will.
Its taken me a long-time to realize the difference between creating a boundary and controlling the A - to me they always felt like one and the same. For example, one of my boundaries is I refuse to allow him to drive a vehicle with my name on it insured with premiums I pay. If his name is on the title, I can hide his keys and he can call a locksmith for another set (yep - that happened). I can hide the vehicle - but there are only so many places I can hide it without it getting towed and he could easily retrieve it. But, I can take my name off of the title and take him off my insurance - then if he does something stupid, the consequences are his and his alone.
I can shred his credit card - he can call the CC company and order a new one. I can refuse to give him cash - he can get cash out on his credit card. But - I don't have to pay the credit card bill when it comes in. I can count his pills - he can substitute them for pills that look the same. But, I can stop buying them. Can you tell I've got some experience with trying to control an active A? LOL.
Its taken me a long-time to realize the difference between creating a boundary and controlling the A - to me they always felt like one and the same. For example, one of my boundaries is I refuse to allow him to drive a vehicle with my name on it insured with premiums I pay. If his name is on the title, I can hide his keys and he can call a locksmith for another set (yep - that happened). I can hide the vehicle - but there are only so many places I can hide it without it getting towed and he could easily retrieve it. But, I can take my name off of the title and take him off my insurance - then if he does something stupid, the consequences are his and his alone.
I can shred his credit card - he can call the CC company and order a new one. I can refuse to give him cash - he can get cash out on his credit card. But - I don't have to pay the credit card bill when it comes in. I can count his pills - he can substitute them for pills that look the same. But, I can stop buying them. Can you tell I've got some experience with trying to control an active A? LOL.
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,582
Puckett sounds like she has some ideas that have worked. A's are sneaky for sure. Wouldn't it be great to harness that talent for good.
About recovery. Your recovery from controlling and codependency is YOURS. His recovery from alcoholism and whatever else is HIS. Neither party contributes to the recovery of the other (at least directly). Meaning, a boundary about his recovery will not work. Trust me on this. His efforts have to be his with him being responsible to him, not you or the effort won't last.
He has to mentally be at the place to seek recovery. This is a huge mistake that I have made and others here have made too. We don't get to give input about their recovery and have it mean a damn. Addicts will only stop using when THEY not you are ready.
The behaviors you require in a partner right now are maybe places to set boundaries. For instance if you cheat, I will leave you. If you drink, I will leave you/move out/whatever you are prepared to DO. When setting boundaries, you must be prepared to follow through with whatever action you say or thik you will make. If you do not follow through with the consequence of the broken boundary, he won't take you seriously, will realize that he can manipulate you and then do that, and you will not feel good about yourself. I know this from a lot of experience in not upholding my boundaries to my ex.
Boundaries are for you, not him. They are not to modify his behavior, but rather to give you a voice and action for what you want in your life.
Realize that many A's will not be able to keep your boundaries. That is why many here left their A's or had A's leave them.
About recovery. Your recovery from controlling and codependency is YOURS. His recovery from alcoholism and whatever else is HIS. Neither party contributes to the recovery of the other (at least directly). Meaning, a boundary about his recovery will not work. Trust me on this. His efforts have to be his with him being responsible to him, not you or the effort won't last.
He has to mentally be at the place to seek recovery. This is a huge mistake that I have made and others here have made too. We don't get to give input about their recovery and have it mean a damn. Addicts will only stop using when THEY not you are ready.
The behaviors you require in a partner right now are maybe places to set boundaries. For instance if you cheat, I will leave you. If you drink, I will leave you/move out/whatever you are prepared to DO. When setting boundaries, you must be prepared to follow through with whatever action you say or thik you will make. If you do not follow through with the consequence of the broken boundary, he won't take you seriously, will realize that he can manipulate you and then do that, and you will not feel good about yourself. I know this from a lot of experience in not upholding my boundaries to my ex.
Boundaries are for you, not him. They are not to modify his behavior, but rather to give you a voice and action for what you want in your life.
Realize that many A's will not be able to keep your boundaries. That is why many here left their A's or had A's leave them.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Waltham, MA
Posts: 7
Miss Fixit - yes, I've also been weak about holding the boundaries, which is something that I'm not doing anymore. I AM prepared to leave if he drinks/uses, but I guess right now, in between his having used (as far as I know) and when he might potentially get into a program, that's kind of limbo. So, if he's not using or drinking, he can stay, but if he does, he goes. And what if I think he is, but he denies it? If I make him leave, then he'll say I'm controlling him... even though I know that it's me holding my boundaries - I just ignore and and follow through, right?
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Wizard Land Downunder
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Quote: (( If I make him leave, then he'll say I'm controlling him... even though I know that it's me holding my boundaries - I just ignore and and follow through, right? ))
RIGHT!!! You are respecting and upholding your boundaries, not controlling him.
God bless
RIGHT!!! You are respecting and upholding your boundaries, not controlling him.
God bless
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: rural west
Posts: 1,375
Here's the thing - you already know he's using and lying.
You can say if, when, etc. but if you are 'in the moment' right now, he ALREADY is breaking your deal breakers.
Already.
When I look at it that way with my AH, I see it is really very simple.
I say that with much water under the bridge, believe me.
But, it is.
He ALREADY is breaking your boundaries.
So, all the rest is irrelevant.
If he wanted to recover, he would be doing so.
He doesn't (and neither does my AH).
What a tough pill to swallow.
But, when you do, everything is so simple.
I work on respecting who he is and what he wants
and admitting it is not what I want in my partner.
I want the dream H; not the real one.
Hugs and Peace.
You can say if, when, etc. but if you are 'in the moment' right now, he ALREADY is breaking your deal breakers.
Already.
When I look at it that way with my AH, I see it is really very simple.
I say that with much water under the bridge, believe me.
But, it is.
He ALREADY is breaking your boundaries.
So, all the rest is irrelevant.
If he wanted to recover, he would be doing so.
He doesn't (and neither does my AH).
What a tough pill to swallow.
But, when you do, everything is so simple.
I work on respecting who he is and what he wants
and admitting it is not what I want in my partner.
I want the dream H; not the real one.
Hugs and Peace.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Waltham, MA
Posts: 7
Hi Finding Peace - thanks for that. This is where I struggle - he says he is not drinking, and I believe it. Maybe that's stupid, but I do, I know how he behaves when he drinks and uses - it's been part of my frustration with him, because he's not able to hide it at all, his demeanor changes so dramatically - and yet, he used to try to hide it. The pills are on track now - whatever he did, I can't know, but he came to me, and poured them out and counted them for me, and I just sat there. He is seeing his therapist 2x a week, and has been attending meetings 2x a day, and we are continuing to see our couples counselor. And he has an intake appt on Friday for an evening program that his therapist recommended. So, today, as far as I know, he is not using, or lying. And that was what I asked earlier, if I think he is, and denies it, then what?
I went to my first Alanon meeting on Saturday, and it was really helpful to hear others with similar stories - just like reading the posts here. I spoke, and talked about how irrational it is to think that we can control other peoples' behavior, and that I was trying to let go, but it's HARD! But I was there, at the meeting, trying to learn from others how to do it, and I'm here, trying to learn from you all how to do it.
I went to my first Alanon meeting on Saturday, and it was really helpful to hear others with similar stories - just like reading the posts here. I spoke, and talked about how irrational it is to think that we can control other peoples' behavior, and that I was trying to let go, but it's HARD! But I was there, at the meeting, trying to learn from others how to do it, and I'm here, trying to learn from you all how to do it.
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 693
One thing kept popping up in my mind when I read your posts--you kept talking about him being an active alcoholic. Maybe I am naive--but I do not know what an inactive alcoholic looks like. Are you talking about someone in recovery.
It sounds like AH is going through the motions but not quite committed to sobriety--been there. stbxah even went to far as to get campral (of course later I discovered it was so he "would drink less").
Boundaries are so important. Cutting yourself some slack when you fall back on being co-dependent is important as is realizing what you just did, admitting it and trying not to do it again. You are right--it is very hard when you have all that practice
But it happens if you work at it. Good for you for going to AlAnon.
You sound like you have started down the right road. I don't think anyone has recommended this yet--if so, sorry for the reiteration. One book that shook my co-dependent bones to the core was Co-Dependent No More by Melocy Beattie. It was harsh to read as I saw myself in almost every page--but it helped me admit I needed as much help as AH so I did not live my life as a co-dependent even after I left stbxah.
It sounds like AH is going through the motions but not quite committed to sobriety--been there. stbxah even went to far as to get campral (of course later I discovered it was so he "would drink less").
Boundaries are so important. Cutting yourself some slack when you fall back on being co-dependent is important as is realizing what you just did, admitting it and trying not to do it again. You are right--it is very hard when you have all that practice
But it happens if you work at it. Good for you for going to AlAnon.You sound like you have started down the right road. I don't think anyone has recommended this yet--if so, sorry for the reiteration. One book that shook my co-dependent bones to the core was Co-Dependent No More by Melocy Beattie. It was harsh to read as I saw myself in almost every page--but it helped me admit I needed as much help as AH so I did not live my life as a co-dependent even after I left stbxah.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Waltham, MA
Posts: 7
Thanks, Wife - yes, 'active' would mean, he was still drinking/using. And I don't believe he is. He may be going through the motions of 'recovery', but again, I can't control that, but I don't believe that he is using right now. I did slip again last night, and looked at the pills from the bottom of the bottle and quickly counted that there was an even number, and when he came home from his AA meeting and said that he had forgotten to take his meds, I said that I had a problem, that I had taken a look and it looked like he HAD taken them. He again brought them out to me and counted in front of me, and I was wrong, the correct amount was there. I cried and apologized, and he was very kind and understanding, and said that I shouldn't be hard on myself, he understood why I was worried. This would never have happened if he were using.
We have started saying the serenity prayer together every morning - I find that it helps refocus me, and I think it does the same for him.
I have been meaning to get that book, and have read parts of it that were online, and yes, I could identify with so much of what I read. I always thought that my reactions to his drinking or using were justified - but once I started looking more closely, I realized that justified or not, they were just as out of control as his actions were - I mean, digging through the trash?? Yes, I'm learning to let go, one day at a time.
We have started saying the serenity prayer together every morning - I find that it helps refocus me, and I think it does the same for him.
I have been meaning to get that book, and have read parts of it that were online, and yes, I could identify with so much of what I read. I always thought that my reactions to his drinking or using were justified - but once I started looking more closely, I realized that justified or not, they were just as out of control as his actions were - I mean, digging through the trash??
Yes, I'm learning to let go, one day at a time.
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