puckettcg

Well - took the kids away to the beach for the weekend, along with a good friend and her son. Really had a good time, and for the first time I told her the whole story, everything that happened over the last two years with AH. I'd been reluctant to talk to her about it because of boundary issues. She has adopted my mother, and while I love my mother to death and she obviously knows about the AH's alcohol issues, there are certain things that I really don't want to discuss with her. But, I basically told her, that I needed to get this out, but couldn't do it if I thought she'd go discuss everything I told her with my mother. Took some explaining, but I think she got the message. It was good to finally to talk to someone about everything. The boards are nice but not the same as a live person.

The only thing that put a damper on the weekend is starting at 5:00 AM, and then again at 5:13 AM, AH started calling. He called the rest of the day Saturday, then at 3 AM Sunday morning (I had the ringer off so I didn't see it until the morning). This continued through Sunday, early this Morning and several times during the drive home. I refused to answer the phone or call him back, and kept the ringer off all weekend. Not too longer after I walked into the house, the sob story - I couldn't sleep, and no I haven't been drinking, and how could I, I don't have any money, and no I didn't steal your checks (three so far have cleared). I just looked at him and said you won't stop drinking, you won't stop lying, I don't trust you and all you do all day is lie around watching sci-fi channel and reading books - not my problem. He thankfully walked away.

He's obviously been smoking in the house as I've found ashes in the bathroom and around the computer. I still buy him his cigarettes, but if he continues to smoke in the house, the cigarettes are the next thing to go.

I think maybe I need to go to the gym. I was doing good ignoring him all weekend. At least he's now sulked away to his bedroom - probably to sleep another one off while watching sci-fi movies. My friend can't understand why I'm not more upset about it - I told her that's because a year ago I was a wreck and could hardly function. I still get angry, and that's where the gym has helped, but I just can't get as emotionally involved in his problems.

Freedom1990

What about your children...how do they deal with their emotions in the middle of this insanity?

puckettcg

No, I don't buy him beer or alcohol. Yes, I do buy his cigarettes, and as long as he smokes outside or in the garage, then I really don't have a problem with him smoking. Sure, its enabling him to smoke. I just don't want it in my house. Truthfully, I'm "enabling" him to live, because I provide him with food and shelter. Unless he picks up and leaves on his own free will, there is not a lot I can do aside from leave myself, which brings on a whole new set of problems. Whether I leave or he leaves, I will in all likelihood end up supporting him for the rest of his life. I'm not saying I'm helpless or don't have a choice; I'm saying I've looked at my options, and this is the best of a bunch of bad options for now.

The kids, surprisingly, seem to be doing okay. AH and I don't fight anymore. They seem more worried about him than anything else - when we left for the beach, my son wanted to make sure someone checked up on him while we were gone; my daughter was worried he might hurt himself. Neither one of them wanted him to go with us. They seemed to have accepted him for who he is, more so than I. I think they'd be worse off if I forced him out with no where to go and no way to support himself, and if he died, they'd blame me and I'm not going to have his death on my head.

I'm pretty proud of myself for not answering his phone calls and getting sucked back into his drama. We had a truly great weekend. Spent the days on the beach, got ice cream and went walking in the evenings, and generally had a good time. Coming home - kind of sucked for me because I knew he'd be waiting at the door. My son was hardly in the house an hour before he was off to Kings Dominion with friends. My youngest has been bugging me for the last hour to go to the pool. I was able to grab a quick workout.

Freedom1990

I'd suggest you go over to the Adult Children of Alcoholics board here and read how adult children were affected by being forced to live with active alcoholism in their lives.

Children should be children, not spending an outing worrying about their father.

If he died is an awful big 'if'.

As it is, he's quite comfy with his life. He's provided for, and that's a dream come true for an alcoholic while drinking himself to death.

puckettcg

I understand what you are saying - but what exactly are you suggesting I do? I recognize they are impacted - that doesn't change anything though. Everyone on this board has said that if an alcoholic wants to drink, he'll figure out a way to drink. I get it, I can't control his drinking.

I would like nothing more than for him to leave and for me not to have anything more to do with him. But, there is no option I can select other than to put myself in financial ruin where I won't have to provide for him. I cannot legally make him leave; it is a near certainty that I will have to pay him alimony in any divorce or separation agreement and right now, its cheaper for me to support him while he is still living with us. In order to divorce you have to be separated for 12 months, and unless both spouses enter into one voluntarily, there is no such thing as a "legal" separation so there is no point in even pursuing one. I have consulted two attorneys on this and have gotten the same response from both.

I could leave - but, without going into details, that option would be problematic for me both legally and financially. And, even so, how does that change whether or not the kids are worried about him?

Again - right now, this is the best of the not so great options. He's not violent or abusive - if he were, that would change things and I'd have more legal options including the ability to have him forcibly removed from the house or arrested. I live in Virginia, and Virginia makes it exceedingly difficult for couples to divorce or separate. Right now, I'm proceeding on the basis of constructive desertion - but its going to take 12 months. It eventually gets him out of the house, but I'll still end up supporting him. I have already decided the marriage is over, so now its a matter of doing what I need to do in order to provide for my kids and minimize the damage to them from his destructive behavior. At one point I thought I screwed up by letting him back home after he left for three weeks - turns out if he doesn't stay gone for 12 months I have to let him back in else I can charged with desertion.

Is there not anyone else on this board who has a similar situation?

Thumper

I don't understand the legalities. It is very different here in South Dakota. Those laws sound crazy to me.

He refuses to leave? :sigh: I think I'd quit doing anything at all for him (no cigs, no laundry, not one single thing) and hope he'd get the drift and just leave already.

I'm getting angry no your behalf. What a bunch of bs laws.

coffeedrinker

I remember reading something similar on this board from a spouse who filed the separation agreement, and then the 12-month clock started ticking...perhaps it was you; I can't recall. So that part I understand. I hope you have done that?

I know it might sound ridiculous, but have you ever actually asked him to leave the home? My xabf, who lived with me because he had no options, found a place pretty darned quick when I told him I did not want him to continue living with me. But that's his personality -- who wants to be where they are not wanted? (I know, some will stay, but some will not. My ex-husband also left when I told him I wanted a divorce)
I understand that he has no income, but, again, perhaps he would be resourceful enough to find a way? Do I sound stupid? I just don't know your husband. There are shelters, too, which sounds like the exact place for such as this person who can't even function.
It's amazing how quickly things can change when someone is forced to survive or not.

And one more question: have the lawyers said that you will be paying alimony? In the 21st century a woman has to pay alimony because her spouse doesn't bring anything to the table??

Jazzman

Yes, but I was willing to do what ever it took to get her out. Even if it meant writing a huge check, selling my home and getting a smaller place and having less "stuff" or moving out myself...

Right now you are doing your best to live in an intolerable situation. Your husband is a dead beat dad in place and has no reason to change anything because no matter what, you'll tolerate his behavior. I'm saddened greatly by your children's concerns over their fathers safety and think its a crime your husband is doing that to his kids. This will have terrible long term emotional effects on your kids.

But I think you have more power in this situation than you realize. If I were you this is exactly what I would do, (remember it's easy for me to say this cuz I'm not the one living it right now). I would sit his ass down and have a come to jesus meeting, tell him to shut up and listen cuz he's forfeited his right to an opinion in this matter based on his actions. Tell him the marriage is over and you are taking legal steps to that end. Tell him your plan. You will live separate under the same roof for one year then file for divorce. Tell him you want him gone. Tell him if he chooses to stay in the house then he must set up a basement bedroom and there will be no drinking or smoking in your home. Stop supporting ANY of his habits. Stop giving him any money, inviting him to the table for a family dinner, doing laundry, etc.. Make it clear he's on his own for everything just as if he's a room mate. Then wrap it up. Plain and simple, no emotion, just business is business.

Remember, you're not trying to control or manipulate the situation, you're just making it clear that if he chooses to stay here, these are the conditions that he will be living under.

Fro your own emotional health keep working out, find a counselor. Get your kids in counseling too.

littlefish

I know this sounds like a stupid question, but are there any provisions for being separated in the same house?

posiesperson

puckett,

Sending you a big hug, first and foremost. I know this isn't easy, and it's clear that you're trying to figure out how to juggle everyone's needs in the midst of this man who has managed to get everyone to orbit around HIM.

When I'm trying to cope in an unhealthy way I find myself denying what's in front of me. When I read the words from the posters above, especially with regard to your kids, I read (and experience myself, from being outside of your situation) that there are more angles and possibilities than you've perhaps allowed yourself to have. Of course it's very hard to do that when you're in it! But I assure you, your children are profoundly affected. It's in their words of wanting to make sure that someone checks up on Dad...they don't want his selfish, addicted butt on the weekend vacation, but they are conflicted about taking care of him as you are, and are concerned about feeling guilty for not handing everything over to this man (time, money, concern, sense of self).

I often ask myself, when someone points out something I'm doing that they see and I don't, "what am I REALLY getting out of this situation--what am I attached to in this?"

Nothing like a healthy dose of emotional honesty with myself. Screw the laws in Virginia. Though they may pose a hurdle, you can do this differently. You're not a victim unless you sign up to be one. Yes, the situation stinks but you have power and self-control, choices you can make IF you're truly willing to give yourself the respect you deserve, the same respect that he will never provide in his addicted haze.

I like what Jazzman said. No laundry, no comfy bedroom, no cigs...nothing. That AH of yours just might decide that you're no fun anymore and take his toys and leave the sandbox. Let's hope so.

hugs,
posie

puckettcg

- The lawyers told me I'd pay alimony
- I did ask him to leave; I can't legally make him leave - I can make demands that he move into the basement but those demands would have no legal effect.
- There are provisions for being separated in the same house and he knows that's why I've moved into the other bedroom. The one-year clock is ticking.
- I don't give him money, do his laundry, or ask him to the family table. I do buy groceries, I do buy his cigarettes, and I do pay all the household bills. Either I buy the basics or I give him money, I do not have the option of doing neither. I'd rather buy the basics. Granted, cigarettes aren't the basics, but its really not worth the aggravation that would come if I stopped buying them.

Jazzman

I would tell him to get a job at the local quickie mart and he can use that money to fund his addictions. And if he were to even try to "aggravate me" I'd be up in his face so fast he'd be afraid to come out of the basement.

Sounds to me like you wear the pants in that family, might as well grow a pair to go with them. When you're ready, you'll pull the plug on this free loader that's messing up your kids heads.

Jazzman

my screen locked up before I could finish

Well technically, only if he asked for it. Plus it IS negotiable as far as the amount and length of time. The state guidelines to calculate alimony are guidelines, not laws. You could possibly negotiate a smaller amount, shorter length of time or even a lump sum. Lemme ask you this.. did he threaten to sue you back and take you for everything you have, alimony, the house, the kids? Just exactly what are the circumstances you base these worst case scenario worries on?

No legal effect, but it sure sends a pretty clear signal as well as makes him feel like the slug he's acting like. Right now it sounds like all he has to do is **** and moan or throw a tantrum, you cave in and he gets the master bedroom, shrimp scampi with linguine and cream sauce for dinner and mommy still buys his cigs.

LaTeeDa

I was in a similar position with my XAH. It still amazes me how fast he went from resentment of me making more money than him, to entitlement. And the more I "took care" of him, the more he expected it. It may seem like the lesser of two evils now, but the longer it goes on, the worse it will get.

I had attorneys telling me I might have to pay alimony as well. I looked at it as a possible price I would have to pay for my peace and getting my life back.

There is no monetary amount I would trade for my children's well-being. None.

L

Bolina

Can you get in touch with a local shelter or domestic abuse charity for some advice? This is not an uncommon situation. There may also be some advocates locally who are campaigning for a change in the law who might give some pointers. I cannot believe this inequitable situation is allowed to persist in this day and age.

That said, are you content with exposing your children to this level of stress simply because of money? Because that seems like a heck of a price to pay....

puckettcg

All good suggestions and I thank everyone. Some of which I had honestly not considered. I also admittedly took way more responsibility for him ridding himself of his addiction than I should have - when I look back at the things I did like mapping out the location of AA meetings, set up his Dr's app'ts, making sure he took his pills, etc, stupid really. You guys have given me some thing to think about.

However, I'm not going to move out of my house, no matter what he does - I'm just not willing to go there but can appreciate why others would feel/act differently under the same or similar circumstances. Sure money is part of it, but its more about my support network which I need. My kids have a dozen friends each within walking distance from my house. My entire support network is all within basically walking distance. My parents are so close that we're even on the same bus route. The kids can walk/ride bikes to the pool where all their friends belong. My son and his best friend have become closer and I think its because they each have someone to talk to about similar issues as his friend's mom is a recovering alcoholic and his Dad has left and is unreliable - they help each other deal and I'm not taking that away from him. AH on the other hand has no emotional ties to the area beyond me and the kids. Moving would be significantly more stressful for me and them.

I've also seen what my best friend is going through now - even though her ex has had multiple DUI's and drunk in public charges, and has been arrested for assault while her son was visiting, she still is required to send her son to visit him every other weekend. They divorced when her son was 1 year old - he's now almost 15. Her son now thinks its all Mom's fault because Dad is all friendly and the "fun guy" - she can't figure out why her son can't see that his Dad is a drunk.

(and for what its worth - I love my basement, its my sanctuary, its where I go to get away and he is not getting my basement. My basement is pretty comfortable too - in the summer its the most comfortable room in the house.)

puckettcg

One thing that I probably haven't said is that I'm in a much better position now than I was 6-12 months ago. I'm optimistic about my future, and I am no longer under the illusion that I can "fix him", or that he is going to suddenly wake up and decide that the alcohol isn't worth it. I no longer think that if only he'd stop drinking, he would realize life is better sober. I know that I have another 11 months before I can file, but I will be able to file in 11 months. In the meantime, I have opened up to family and friends, and found that I've got a lot of good, supportive friends, and I don't have to do this by myself. Its not perfect and he's still a deadbeat Dad, but I no longer define my happiness based on what he does or doesn't do. That's a pretty big step from where I was even in January.

Jazzman

You just have it in your head that "this is the way it's going to be". LOL!! Ok that's cool.

OK so you like your basement, that's cool. You're not moving out. Ok That's cool too.. So what happens in a year when you can file for divorce (which is basically asking a judge for an appointment to hear your case). What's so magical about that date that is different? If your husband gets a good lawyer they can tie that up for months and months...

What I'm trying to get at is this.. What makes you so sure the worst case scenario is what you're facing? Alimony, or supporting him for the rest of his life (as you said earlier). How do I know for sure he's not going to just leave if you turn up the heat enough even before your court date?

puckettcg

What's so magical about the 12 months date is that before 12 months, I can't even get a court date. I will continue to turn up the heat, and yes, I hope he decides to get out on his own before then. Either way, I've started the clock ticking. Its doubtful he'll agree willingly, I can only hope, so no fault is probably not going to be an option.

I don't think alimony is the worst case scenario. Its not the best case scenario, but it is actually one of the better case scenario. I do not want to support him for the rest of his life as a matter of general principal, but its something I'm willing to accept.

Jazzman

So he's willing to stay in a loveless marriage where all he gets from his wife is a cold shoulder... man that's sad. Maybe he's not as happy with the status quo as you think? Maybe if he was forced to fend for himself and buy his own cigarettes he would have no choice but to find a job, any job? That would only help the numbers if he's employed, or even under employed.

If you bought a while back you might have some equity to bargain with? Maybe a reduced lump sum to him and he's off the hook for child support? In any event, he's a willfully unemployed parent and no judge likes that crap. I think you're cutting him way too much slack and could make things much more uncomfortable for him. I know, ugly sucks but I'm betting there's more heat to turn up.