AH wants to go to counceling together
I Love Who I Am
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,210
AH wants to go to counceling together
I tell ya, when it rains it pours.
We've been getting along famously, mainly because I just do my life without bothering him too much. You know, all those pesky things that A's run from-commitment, honesty, consistency, ownership of their actions.
He called this morning. He's been "working out" in his own head all the reasons why he had his affair with the nasty homeless alcoholic from work and now wonders what he ever saw in her when I'm so honorable and funny and beautiful and bla bla bla.
He says he's had the freedom to work things out on his own, which admittedly he told me when we seperated, that he needed to figure out what he wants without me being so controlling and telling him what I needed from him all the time. (Jerk).
I told him to go ahead and find someone and set up the meeting. I think I want to go. I have wanted a mediator to help us with communication and our issues for years. I figure if I don't like it, or find it to be a waste of me time I can stop going. I don't want to change the way we interact right now, I like my life the way it's set up. And I'm aware there is the danger of getting hooked back in emotionally, but I obviously haven't filed for divorce because I'm not willing to let go 100% yet. And I"m ok with that.
Frankly, I"ll be stunned if he even gets so far as to find someone and set up an appointment.
Ok. Let the flaming begin.
We've been getting along famously, mainly because I just do my life without bothering him too much. You know, all those pesky things that A's run from-commitment, honesty, consistency, ownership of their actions.
He called this morning. He's been "working out" in his own head all the reasons why he had his affair with the nasty homeless alcoholic from work and now wonders what he ever saw in her when I'm so honorable and funny and beautiful and bla bla bla.
He says he's had the freedom to work things out on his own, which admittedly he told me when we seperated, that he needed to figure out what he wants without me being so controlling and telling him what I needed from him all the time. (Jerk).
I told him to go ahead and find someone and set up the meeting. I think I want to go. I have wanted a mediator to help us with communication and our issues for years. I figure if I don't like it, or find it to be a waste of me time I can stop going. I don't want to change the way we interact right now, I like my life the way it's set up. And I'm aware there is the danger of getting hooked back in emotionally, but I obviously haven't filed for divorce because I'm not willing to let go 100% yet. And I"m ok with that.
Frankly, I"ll be stunned if he even gets so far as to find someone and set up an appointment.
Ok. Let the flaming begin.
Go ask the Multivax
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,481
"He says he's had the freedom to work things out on his own, which admittedly he told me when we seperated, that he needed to figure out what he wants without me being so controlling and telling him what I needed from him all the time." (Jerk).
Justifying actions run amuck - Ick!
I have no advice! But, I know you're a smart lady. So, I'm going to pay attetion to how it all goes.
Justifying actions run amuck - Ick!
I have no advice! But, I know you're a smart lady. So, I'm going to pay attetion to how it all goes.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 9
Flaming? I think it is great! I found a separation and working on our own issues made all the difference for my bf and I. We too are discussing couples counseling and I hope we actually end up doing it.
The time apart gave us both the opportunity to look at ourselves and find the reasons for what we did. While we were together we only managed to finger point and blame our own bad behaviors on the other person.
I think it is great you are willing to go.
SeekingBalance
The time apart gave us both the opportunity to look at ourselves and find the reasons for what we did. While we were together we only managed to finger point and blame our own bad behaviors on the other person.
I think it is great you are willing to go.
SeekingBalance
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 534
No flames from me, darlin'!
I just would try to be super realistic about things. I would outline in the first session what exactly the point of the counseling is. Is it in hopes of reconciling? Well, what are the criteria that need to happen for that to be possible? Or, is it to simply communicate better as parents? If so, I'd make that really clear.
Realistically, how close is he to being the man you want to be married to? What needs to happen in order for reconciliation to be a possibility? What is different now from 6 months ago?
I would hate to see you ignore all the problems that led you to separation. He's still the same guy who drinks, IIRC.
What if you said you'd consider going to counseling to be able to communicate better as parents, but that you're not willing to discuss reconciliation unless he's seeing his own counselor. What is his take on his drinking? Is he still not interested in sobriety?
I basically just vomited out all those thoughts with no particular sequence.
My AH recently sucked me back in and I wasn't brave enough to post about it here. It hasn't exactly ended badly, mostly due to my lack of investment in things, but he's still the same guy who stirs up nonexistent drama and bails when things seem too challenging for him. I do feel like I've been set back a month or two in some sort of purgatory of my past life.
I just would try to be super realistic about things. I would outline in the first session what exactly the point of the counseling is. Is it in hopes of reconciling? Well, what are the criteria that need to happen for that to be possible? Or, is it to simply communicate better as parents? If so, I'd make that really clear.
Realistically, how close is he to being the man you want to be married to? What needs to happen in order for reconciliation to be a possibility? What is different now from 6 months ago?
I would hate to see you ignore all the problems that led you to separation. He's still the same guy who drinks, IIRC.
What if you said you'd consider going to counseling to be able to communicate better as parents, but that you're not willing to discuss reconciliation unless he's seeing his own counselor. What is his take on his drinking? Is he still not interested in sobriety?
I basically just vomited out all those thoughts with no particular sequence.
My AH recently sucked me back in and I wasn't brave enough to post about it here. It hasn't exactly ended badly, mostly due to my lack of investment in things, but he's still the same guy who stirs up nonexistent drama and bails when things seem too challenging for him. I do feel like I've been set back a month or two in some sort of purgatory of my past life.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 56
Long story short -- make sure the counsellor is really knowledgeable about alcoholism from both sides ... yours & his. The story below is why I say that:
For us, it was our marriage counsellor who identified my AH as an AH, & trotted him off to AA. However, eventhough he was aware of alcoholic issues, and understood that "alcoholism in the family reconfigures how the whole family works", he was not insightful enough to march me off to Al-Anon. I was just to be "less hostile". As we continued for 3 months, my AH returned to counselling saying (LYING) that he had not been drinking, and I returned to each meeting saying our life had not changed. In the end, he fired us (!!!) because I was unable to change sufficiently. Wind for my AH's sails, let me tell you!
AH is continuing to work on his recovery, goes to AA 3x/wk; is working the steps w/his sponsor; I go to Al-Anon 2x/wk plus spend time here with you all. Although it's only been a month since his last relapse, I am starting to see changes in attitude & behaviour. To further help us, we have also recently found an addiction specialist who has a "one shop stop" pile of resources. However, for the first month, they are working strictly with rAH before couple counselling will even be considered. The addiction specialist is a RAH himself; his wife/office manager is the ex-wife of a horrendous AH from what she told me; the doctors, psychiatrists & eventual counselor all specialize in working with alcoholic relationships & people. I am hopeful that here both of us will be better understood and to be fair, be held accountable for each of our stuff. The first counsellor, though, would have messed us up, there is no doubt in my mind.
My verbose two cents.
For us, it was our marriage counsellor who identified my AH as an AH, & trotted him off to AA. However, eventhough he was aware of alcoholic issues, and understood that "alcoholism in the family reconfigures how the whole family works", he was not insightful enough to march me off to Al-Anon. I was just to be "less hostile". As we continued for 3 months, my AH returned to counselling saying (LYING) that he had not been drinking, and I returned to each meeting saying our life had not changed. In the end, he fired us (!!!) because I was unable to change sufficiently. Wind for my AH's sails, let me tell you!
AH is continuing to work on his recovery, goes to AA 3x/wk; is working the steps w/his sponsor; I go to Al-Anon 2x/wk plus spend time here with you all. Although it's only been a month since his last relapse, I am starting to see changes in attitude & behaviour. To further help us, we have also recently found an addiction specialist who has a "one shop stop" pile of resources. However, for the first month, they are working strictly with rAH before couple counselling will even be considered. The addiction specialist is a RAH himself; his wife/office manager is the ex-wife of a horrendous AH from what she told me; the doctors, psychiatrists & eventual counselor all specialize in working with alcoholic relationships & people. I am hopeful that here both of us will be better understood and to be fair, be held accountable for each of our stuff. The first counsellor, though, would have messed us up, there is no doubt in my mind.
My verbose two cents.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
Quack.
Quack.
Quack.
But if he's going to do ALL of the legwork, he's going to pay for EVERYTHING, you think you'll get something out of it, and you're sure it won't damage you further, well heck, why not. You have nothing to lose but time.
Personally, I think you're not in a good place for this - it seems on the outside as though, right now, you're fragile and unstable, and it seems it will be easy to manipulate you with any half-baked promise of stability and safety. But only you know whether that perception is reality...we're just out here in somewhereville, you're inside your own head.
I trust you to do the right thing for yourself.
Just be careful, hm?
Quack.
Quack.
But if he's going to do ALL of the legwork, he's going to pay for EVERYTHING, you think you'll get something out of it, and you're sure it won't damage you further, well heck, why not. You have nothing to lose but time.
Personally, I think you're not in a good place for this - it seems on the outside as though, right now, you're fragile and unstable, and it seems it will be easy to manipulate you with any half-baked promise of stability and safety. But only you know whether that perception is reality...we're just out here in somewhereville, you're inside your own head.
I trust you to do the right thing for yourself.
Just be careful, hm?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
What flaming are you expecting, my friend??
You said yourself that you haven't filed for divorce because you're not 100% ready to let go so why not see someone together and do some exploration of that in a healthy way. You may be able to work out communications with him, but then discover that you do feel ready to let him go. You may be able to get some closure then to the relationship while finding your civility (as you have recently) to continue co-parenting.
or
You may find the reason why you're hanging on and discover a new path that includes him in your life again.
And like you say, if he actually gets it together enough to proceed with therapy, you can always walk away if it's not working for you.
That's the great thing about stepping into the unknown...anything can and usually does happen. One never knows?
Best to you,
Alice
You said yourself that you haven't filed for divorce because you're not 100% ready to let go so why not see someone together and do some exploration of that in a healthy way. You may be able to work out communications with him, but then discover that you do feel ready to let him go. You may be able to get some closure then to the relationship while finding your civility (as you have recently) to continue co-parenting.
or
You may find the reason why you're hanging on and discover a new path that includes him in your life again.
And like you say, if he actually gets it together enough to proceed with therapy, you can always walk away if it's not working for you.
That's the great thing about stepping into the unknown...anything can and usually does happen. One never knows?
Best to you,
Alice
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
Jump in feet first. Though please work out ahead of time (maybe ask the counselor what is the best way to handle) what or how much you are going to tell the kids about it. I recommend telling them nothing so they don't get their hopes up but that's just my opinion.
Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: UK and Australia
Posts: 447
Transform......nothing more to add really accept I agree with you totally that go and if you don't like it etc etc you don't have to go anymore!
Just wanted to add my love and support to the pile! and I look forward to hearing how it goes for you. You have come such a long way.........take care of you.
Hugs for you Phiz
Just wanted to add my love and support to the pile! and I look forward to hearing how it goes for you. You have come such a long way.........take care of you.
Hugs for you Phiz
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: minneapolis, mn
Posts: 2,762
i understand what it's like to have one foot in, and one foot out, of the relationship.
if what you ending up seeing is that you made the wrong choice, well, you made the wrong choice. you can always back peddle and stay separated. sometimes we really need to exhaust all avenues -then, and only then, will we know for sure
wishing you well
if what you ending up seeing is that you made the wrong choice, well, you made the wrong choice. you can always back peddle and stay separated. sometimes we really need to exhaust all avenues -then, and only then, will we know for sure
wishing you well
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PM me
Posts: 324
I think in times like these...where it feels like you're on the brink to a better place with your A, its really important to have a clear boundary in your head. Know how far you're willing to go. Maybe willing is the wrong word for all us, lol.
Know how far you SHOULD go to look out for yourself. Be it a time limit or strictly speaking to him with the counselor there. Whatever that looks like for you. I think as long as you stick to that and don't get hooked...you'll be okay.
I think Alice has a good point. We can guess what's going to happen (and that's why you have a clear boundary established beforehand), but we don't really know. And as far as what's right for you, only you know that.
But I'm sure you know all this. And o yeah..isn't it scary waiting for the wrist-slaps?! Haha. That's why I always ask in here and people in my life, is this crossing my boundary? Is this okay?
But I also need to learn to trust MYSELF.
Know how far you SHOULD go to look out for yourself. Be it a time limit or strictly speaking to him with the counselor there. Whatever that looks like for you. I think as long as you stick to that and don't get hooked...you'll be okay.
I think Alice has a good point. We can guess what's going to happen (and that's why you have a clear boundary established beforehand), but we don't really know. And as far as what's right for you, only you know that.
But I'm sure you know all this. And o yeah..isn't it scary waiting for the wrist-slaps?! Haha. That's why I always ask in here and people in my life, is this crossing my boundary? Is this okay?
But I also need to learn to trust MYSELF.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Wizard Land Downunder
Posts: 2,615
OK, he says now he is ready to join in counselling. Hmmm!!
Your saying for HIM to go find counsellor and make the arrangements was spot on, as it is up to him and will show just how willing he is...or not.
If he does go ahead with this, it will at least give you the chance you wanted to get thru to him....if nothing else. If he baulks at the first jump, then you will know where you are at and you can decide what YOU do then.
If you are not totally decided about this relationship, the results of the exercise (if it takes place or he reneges on it) may enable you to make a final decision, and get you off the hook.
I wish you a solution which ever way it turns out, so you can take whatever steps you need to LIVE happily again.
God bless
Your saying for HIM to go find counsellor and make the arrangements was spot on, as it is up to him and will show just how willing he is...or not.
If he does go ahead with this, it will at least give you the chance you wanted to get thru to him....if nothing else. If he baulks at the first jump, then you will know where you are at and you can decide what YOU do then.
If you are not totally decided about this relationship, the results of the exercise (if it takes place or he reneges on it) may enable you to make a final decision, and get you off the hook.
I wish you a solution which ever way it turns out, so you can take whatever steps you need to LIVE happily again.
God bless
I Love Who I Am
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,210
You guys are going to love this. My life is a thrill a minute lately.
A boy I met through work and networking called me today. He asked if I would like to get some tea or coffee with him. I've been thinking about him, wishing he would do just that. We had a date tonight. I haven't had (or agreed to) a date since I left AH. But i did for this guy. Just to see what his story is.
He's a RA. We had a great time. Easy. His voice, eyes and words make me feel calm. He's real pretty. Great boundaries, didn't try a single thing when we said goodbye, except to thank me repeatedly for spending time with him. Put his hand lightly on my back once to usher me through a door. Left me feeling giddy and proud. Even if I don't have another date with him, I feel like an adult. That's what a date is suppose to be like. Just checking each other out to see if we want to spend more time together.
Then I went to pick up the kids and had a very quickly escalated fight with AH that ended with him walking away, abandoning me when I was triggering. I wanted to cry.
Now he's sending text saying, "we've tried to fix this on our own for so long, it's time to get some resolve. It's time for this to change."
I dunno. I felt guilty even considering going to counceling with him but I can't lie abut it and not tell you guys. I was askeered you'd think I"m crazy. Which is partially true anyway but this
really skeered the bejesus out of me. Guess I better be real careful. And I mean that in the best way. You know I'll be honest and tell you what the process is like. And hopefully it will be the best thought out path that protects me and my kids.
Everything you've all said is so wise, so thoughtful. Where would I be without you?
I've started making a list of all the things I know I need to be at my best, and working to make sure I do/have/create/allow time for them all. This will be good in one sense because I'll have my prioritites straight. Even if I can't spell them.
These are all great things to think about and yes, i considered him quacking at the time but the more I think about it, think about what I want in my life, the more I think it'll be a good thing to get in somewhere (if he even freaking does it and yes it'll all be on him, that's what I've told him for years it's his job to hook up the counceling) and have someone mediate our personal issue with each other.
He's saying we should do this to see if there's any hope for reconciliation. To find resolve either way, which is something I can agree to. I want resolve as well.
But i promise to be careful. I think the first order of business is to not even think about it further until he says he's made an appointment.
Goodness, I hope not. I really hope not. I think I know better now, think I know to look at his actions vs. words. To always keep in mind what is best for me and the kids and try to be calm and focused on my life.
I'm not going to hold my breath or wait for him. Hell no. In fact, I"m taking the new friend of mine to yoga monday morning. He wants to go and see if it helps him along his path of recovery and healing.
Sounds great to me.
I love all of these responses here, love each and every one of you for being kind and direct and encouraging. I"m going to bring my lasso and also
A boy I met through work and networking called me today. He asked if I would like to get some tea or coffee with him. I've been thinking about him, wishing he would do just that. We had a date tonight. I haven't had (or agreed to) a date since I left AH. But i did for this guy. Just to see what his story is.
He's a RA. We had a great time. Easy. His voice, eyes and words make me feel calm. He's real pretty. Great boundaries, didn't try a single thing when we said goodbye, except to thank me repeatedly for spending time with him. Put his hand lightly on my back once to usher me through a door. Left me feeling giddy and proud. Even if I don't have another date with him, I feel like an adult. That's what a date is suppose to be like. Just checking each other out to see if we want to spend more time together.
Then I went to pick up the kids and had a very quickly escalated fight with AH that ended with him walking away, abandoning me when I was triggering. I wanted to cry.
Now he's sending text saying, "we've tried to fix this on our own for so long, it's time to get some resolve. It's time for this to change."
I dunno. I felt guilty even considering going to counceling with him but I can't lie abut it and not tell you guys. I was askeered you'd think I"m crazy. Which is partially true anyway but this
I have no advice! But, I know you're a smart lady. So, I'm going to pay attention to how it all goes.
Everything you've all said is so wise, so thoughtful. Where would I be without you?
I've started making a list of all the things I know I need to be at my best, and working to make sure I do/have/create/allow time for them all. This will be good in one sense because I'll have my prioritites straight. Even if I can't spell them.
These are all great things to think about and yes, i considered him quacking at the time but the more I think about it, think about what I want in my life, the more I think it'll be a good thing to get in somewhere (if he even freaking does it and yes it'll all be on him, that's what I've told him for years it's his job to hook up the counceling) and have someone mediate our personal issue with each other.
He's saying we should do this to see if there's any hope for reconciliation. To find resolve either way, which is something I can agree to. I want resolve as well.
But i promise to be careful. I think the first order of business is to not even think about it further until he says he's made an appointment.
it seems it will be easy to manipulate you with any half-baked promise of stability and safety.
I'm not going to hold my breath or wait for him. Hell no. In fact, I"m taking the new friend of mine to yoga monday morning. He wants to go and see if it helps him along his path of recovery and healing.
Sounds great to me.
I love all of these responses here, love each and every one of you for being kind and direct and encouraging. I"m going to bring my lasso and also
Know how far you SHOULD go to look out for yourself. Be it a time limit or strictly speaking to him with the counselor there. Whatever that looks like for you. I think as long as you stick to that and don't get hooked...you'll be okay.
I Love Who I Am
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,210
I can't believe this. I just got off the phone with AH we had a horrible, fight about OW and he said horrible things to me, that I'm trying to make him suffer. I am triggered and miserable and brought it all on myself by engaging wtih him. I hate him. Please, please please help me end it with him for good. no contact must be put in place because yes it's true he can trick me into thinking he's sane and rational and the first sign that I need support from him when he isnt' feeling particularly supportive and he turns into a monster.
**** this
**** this
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,915
I'm so sorry. They really can make our heads spin, right?
I've been following your story and I have to say you have made so much progress. Hang in there...you're doing fine.
I've been following your story and I have to say you have made so much progress. Hang in there...you're doing fine.
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,915
Yeah, we can know these things, but we still think there's some way to fix it, especially when they know how to play you. You're pretty much exactly where you should be at this point. Keep taking care of you and everything will end up where it's meant to be.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: rural west
Posts: 1,375
Then I went to pick up the kids and had a very quickly escalated fight with AH that ended with him walking away, abandoning me when I was triggering. I wanted to cry.
Just remember, we think we get abandoned or are afraid of it, but we are adults. No one can abandon an adult, cuz they can take care of themselves. Another person can't abandon you; they can just leave.
So if you are feeling abandoned, you have abandoned yourself. Pick yourself up and take care of you, again.
Just remember, we think we get abandoned or are afraid of it, but we are adults. No one can abandon an adult, cuz they can take care of themselves. Another person can't abandon you; they can just leave.
So if you are feeling abandoned, you have abandoned yourself. Pick yourself up and take care of you, again.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Sunny South
Posts: 1,666
Transform....
I have followed your "transformation" here on the boards...you have made tremendous
strides and progress.
As an alcoholic, I would only caution you and echo what others have said.
Find someone who is an addiction specialist., someone that knows what program the addict and the non-addict needs to do.
If he is still drinking...then the whys and hows of what he is, why he did it and how it will get better are as everyone says quacking.
When we are active in our alcoholism, we are soooooooo consumed by this disease and as the disease progresses it is strictly about us. We spin tales and play with lives because it keeps this disease fueled and growing. In order for us to become healthy, and then be in a healthy relationship..we must look at ourselves, long and hard. Working the twelve steps is the only way I have been able to become healthy and whole.
If I am not healthy and whole., no counseling, exploration or anything will change my relationship.
My relationship with myself and my higher power are where it all starts..
Peace.
I have followed your "transformation" here on the boards...you have made tremendous
strides and progress.
As an alcoholic, I would only caution you and echo what others have said.
Find someone who is an addiction specialist., someone that knows what program the addict and the non-addict needs to do.
If he is still drinking...then the whys and hows of what he is, why he did it and how it will get better are as everyone says quacking.
When we are active in our alcoholism, we are soooooooo consumed by this disease and as the disease progresses it is strictly about us. We spin tales and play with lives because it keeps this disease fueled and growing. In order for us to become healthy, and then be in a healthy relationship..we must look at ourselves, long and hard. Working the twelve steps is the only way I have been able to become healthy and whole.
If I am not healthy and whole., no counseling, exploration or anything will change my relationship.
My relationship with myself and my higher power are where it all starts..
Peace.
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