FindingPeace1

Today I am working on what do I want from my relationship/partner.
I have no idea of the outcome of all this, but I know it is important to learn to clarify these things.

Ready for my entire, pulsing, bleeding, relationship system to be flayed open to you? Here goes...

I know some things are easy
* no swearing at/cussing me
* no silent treatment
* no big drama/storming out/swearing 'it's over' when its not/rage to shut down the conversation

Others are more challenging.

I can say no lying or hiding, but there are two things about that that come up.
One is, how do I know if he is or isn't doing these things?
Two is, last night, my husband asked me if a mutual friend knew about our situation.
Out of my mouth popped, "no".
OH GOD! (I am generally very honest, but this came out before I knew what hit me - or him!)
He had a face like he thought I was full of it.
We went to bed.
This morning, I realized I have to tell him tonight that I straight up lied, because I was afraid he would be hurt/embarrassed and I'm sorry. It feels awful and embarrassing, but I can do that.
I guess, on the one hand, it tones down my self righteousness, which is good!
On the other hand, it makes me feel like a big hypocrite!
Of course, I understand, I am willing to come clean and apologize cleanly, but still...

Then there is that a collection of things he stonewalls from talking about.
* fights/problems/his errors/things I want to change (seems fair to ask for this)
* sex (this one I feel clear I NEED to be able to discuss)
* money (another obvious one)
* addiction (alcohol/porn) (Is it my place?)
* previous partners - his or mine (should I just leave it be?)

On the one hand, I have a right to discuss matters of importance to me.
On the other hand, when do I become too pushy and not allowing him to have what he wants to have private? He's not perfect. Not everyone can deal with everything...so when do I lay off? Where's the balance? Everyone has issues that they don't want to deal with, right? I have NO idea!

Attached to the stonewalling is HOW he does it
*"nothings wrong"
* I don't know
* denial that he something happened
* denial that he is shut down about it
* anger to shut me down
* or, at this point, shutting down before I even say ANYTHING because he is pre-set up to take it as a personal attack so he doesn't even want to hear it

On the one hand, I know we ALL do tactics of silence or aggressiveness rather than calmly dealing with tough issues. I don't know how to find the balance of "we all do it" and "he does it too much" and I deserve more?

Then, there are things that are fuzzier because they are ways he is not taking care of himself and I'm not sure of my place.
* depression (He has, at times, admitted he struggles with this and at times minimizes. He has even said he considered suicide the first time I took a break. Now, he won't discuss that incident. It's his body and his life, right? But is it unreasonable for me to be concerned about something so serious?

But...one thing I can say that DOES affect me is his negativity, sarcasm, pessimism, hopelessness, and saying extreme things - like he is going to try to talk to me LESS because I am so judgmental - even if he doesn't mean it. I suppose I could say no to all of those and let him get treatment or not for his depression. Thoughts?)
* alcoholism (He said he'd stop - to please me - then said that was ridiculous and that he would drink, but there is no visible alcohol in the house and he has yet to drink around me. Still, when I got back after a 3 week trip, there was less alcohol in the liquor cabinet, so I assume he is still drinking. If I ask, I am "checking up on him" which feels not fair to both of us. And yet...I have no idea if he is or how much or when. Not my business?

I don't want to say, "I don't want to date a person that drinks AT ALL, because I drink occasionally. Yet, if he does have a problem...AHHH!

~~~~~~~~~~~
I can hear you saying, "Why are you even with this guy? This is b.s.
But, right now, I am trying to learn about MY boundaries, how to set them, and what is reasonable (not sure anything isn't - don't know).

I have heard it before, but I really shouldn't talk to him AT ALL about these? I mean, I know my boundaries are for me, but shouldn't he, at least, get the chance to hear what I am basing leaving him on??!? It seems ridiculous to leave without ever giving him a chance to hear my needs and consider them for himself. On the other hand, am I just pushing him to be what he's not?

If you can't fix it, change it, etc. Where does healthy dialogue come in? Where you discuss your needs like rational human beings? (I can hear you saying he is not rational, but shouldn't I try to treat him as such to give him a chance to be?)

I can also hear you saying I haven't YET put down the magnifying glass and picked up the mirror. But don't I need to see what doesn't work to be able to set a boundary?

I know boundaries should have a format of:
If you__________ I will ______________.
I am really stymied here.
What can I do? Leave the room? Stop talking? Tell him how I feel?
What does any of that do? All those seem like a cop out for me.
I feel like if I REALLY cared for myself I would not take it AT ALL and leave. But that seems so dramatic.

WHAT DO HEALTHY PEOPLE DO? AHHHHH!

I know, I think too much.
Any wisdom would be appreciated.

isitme

no wisdom for you because.. I think exactly like you! :ghug3 I'm very interested to see what the answers are. I know my situation is different and will have a different out come almost certainly. But I ask myself these same questions none the less. You're just so much better at formulating it in a coherent manner than I am. :P

LaTeeDa

What I hear in your post is "I can't accept him as he is."

L

FindingPeace1

...so simple...


Does that make me a jerk?

Couldn't I be unfair or unreasonable? Wanting too much? Wanting perfection? Not accepting his humanness?

What if I am?


I'm afraid.

I'm afraid of asking for too much and losing someone really great that I love.

I'm afraid of hurting someone I love.

I'm afraid of losing.

I'm afraid I will edge myself out of ANY relationship because I always seem to have a long list of whiny demands.

I'm afraid I don't know where balance is.

I'm afraid to be wrong.

I'm afraid I am making a HUGE mistake I won't be able to go back and fix.

dasha

Be yourself to yourself be true... I get were your comin from.. Me an my wife are both
Alcoholics and recently i stopped for 15 days..My wife carried on drinkin.. Which made it
tough with still havin booze around.but hey she is what she is..An i am what i am, however much we would love to change each other to suit what we both want in
another..lover/partner/wife, its not gonna happen.. I hate how she is most of the time..
and she hates how i am...The fact we have an adorable 3yr old daughter makes it mostly
Acceptable, but really there is no easy way for many couples after the honeymoon period
or is there???:ghug3

LaTeeDa

No. It simply means you can't accept him as he is.

So, where does that leave you?

You can't make him be someone else. (No matter how many 'boundaries' you come up with, or how many 'conversations' you have with him.)

You must do one of two things:

1. Accept him as he is.
2. Let him go.

It really is very simple. (Although not easy at all.)

:ghug3

L

Learn2Live

Hi Wife! Good work!!! You should feel good for thinking this all through and writing it all out. Keep it up! It helps me to write it all out like this too

You're right though, there really is no way to tell if the other person is lying, unless and until you catch him in the lie. That's the insanity of being with an alcoholic; it makes you insane trying to figure out the truth. Glad you discovered your OWN lie, though, because it helps one see that sometimes we try to set boundaries that are actually just expectations that seem impossible for even US to meet. You can look at yourself as a "hypocrite" if you want; or you can set the expectation for YOURSELF not to lie.

(BTW, telling the truth and not lying are MORALS and VALUES. When you personally value something like honesty and then you break that value yourself, you negatively affect your own self-esteem. Do that enough times and you really make a mess of yourself. To work on, and therefore re-focus yourself on, YOURSELF, re-align your behavior with your values. Sometimes this means going back and writing out just what our values ARE. This is where involvement in religion can help. Actively working on re-building our self-esteem is what we all should do in our Recovery, whether we are alcoholic or otherwise).

Right! This is all just PRACTICE! Good for you for recognizing that we are ALL of us trying to learn how to relate to others, and that is what your entire post is all about.

Sure, tell him everything you want to tell him. Just make sure you are detached enough to be able to see his reaction for what it is. If you're not detached enough, do it anyway. Make note of what your Expectations of the other person are when you share all this with him.

Whether it is him or someone else, whatever this lesson that you need to learn is going to come back until you see it and learn it. May as well learn it now. Whether or not HE learns anything about why you left (once you leave that is) matters not.

Every once in a while perhaps you get a glimpse of health or rationality coming from him, right? It really depends on how far along they are in the progression of the disease. Once they've progressed past a certain point, the healthy dialogue occurs only between you and you, or you and someone else. If and when you have become healthy yourself, you will begin to have healthy dialogue with other healthy people.

Not true; I DO see you have put down the magnifying glass and picked up the mirror. What you want to do (sharing your ideas and observations, etc with others) is part of the process of looking at yourself. Practicing will show you what works and what doesn't. The more you practice this with a real, live person, the more you begin to see yourself and what is happening. You're doing GREAT!

You sound like me, you want to take care of it all at once. Why not try with just ONE boundary with this man? And perhaps just ONE boundary with one other person, like a co-worker for instance? Practice identifying, setting, and communicating those first; see what happens; while you keep working on identifying more.

The healthy choice is to keep your mind open; to keep sharing your thoughts and feelings; to keep asking others what they see, think, and feel; to keep being more and more conscious and aware of what you are doing; to keep practicing in relationships where you feel safe to practice. The healthy choice, as long as you are not being harmed by this person, or otherwise in danger by staying, is to NOT RUN, but to stand and face yourself.

Nah, I think you're doing great. Try not to sell yourself short. Keep focusing on you and what you want and need.

Learn2Live

Wow, what a long list of fears Wife. Welcome to the human race