Mambo Queen

Hey folks--

I have not posted any new threads since what I kind of felt was my disasterous last post. Anyone who needs to get up to speed on the elements of my story that bear repeating, feel free to click on my name and read all of my old threads. Although I have certainly still been around reading, and sometimes commenting on other posters threads. However, I miss feeling free to post about thoughts/dilemmas that enter my mind on occasion. It's just that now I sort of feel like I need to censor them for codie-isms, or that I can't be fully free to share what I'm going through. The reason I feel this way, frankly, is because I really did feel like the last time I did it, I was "spanked" in a way that did not feel helpful to my recovery, and in fact added to my mental anguish. Even though I did not really disagree with the content of anyone's reply to me, and actually felt that much wisdom was imparted, I did feel chastised in a way that felt bad to me.

This quote in particular (and sorry, Anvilhead, but I am going to call you out here, not because I felt you set out to hurt me, I truly don't feel that was your intention, just that I want to make clear what it was that bothered me) was very hurtful to me:

Maybe, in a psychological, sub-conscious sense, that is what's going on....and maybe you were very wise to recognize it, Anvilhead. But what that particular situation that I was grappling with felt like to me that day, and still feels like sometimes, isn't that...it feels to me like a pervasive guilt that I am doing wrong by a fellow human being if I don't at least extend the kindness to him that I would extend to any fellow "drunk that still suffers" as AA talks about. I wasn't talking about paying for his booze, or letting him watch my daughter while he was drunk, I was talking about helping him with some practicalities before he entered the Salvation Army for an intensive six-month program to quit drinking and get into contact with his higher power.

I did take my daughter to dinner with him before he went in, by the way, and I did take his computer and cell phone as he could not enter with them and did not want to just throw them away. As of today, he has been there 9 days. And we did have a nice dinner. Now I will say, that he also said some things to me that I felt were very manipulative at the end of the evening, about how he "needed me to still give him a chance" and while I found that painful to listen to, I also did not "cave" and stood strong in my stance that he needed to do this for him alone and I could promise him nothing.

But I won't say that didn't hurt. It did. And it did send me into a bit of an emotional tailspin, which I feel that I righted by a good therapy session and ramped-up meetings.

But ultimately, I don't regret that decision. I have always felt that I will have some relationship with my XAH until the day he or I dies because of our dd, although I have been willing and able to cut off physical contact between he and she when I have known he is still drinking, but I do think it is the humane and moral thing to do to help a fellow alcoholic seek treatment if he/she seems to want it, and will probably continue to think that.

Also, the issue I was posting about, my BF's reaction to this contact, became basically a non-issue. My BF told me he wasn't jumping up for joy about it, but he understood why I did it, and at this point we've left it at that. We have also both decided to take the relationship slow as need be at this point, no pressure for the future, and just seeing each other about once a week. That feels right to me now, because I think the pressure on both of us to prove we are "relationship-worthy" has been a hindrance, and we both feel good about giving each other the space to get healthy while still maintaining some contact/companionship/hope for the future.

I guess I partially bring this up because of Transform's thread that devolved into kind of this same dilemma. I admit I was wanting to jump in at some point to say to Transform "Then divorce him already! Go no contact!" But it became clear to me that she wasn't there yet, so I refrained. And I'm not even advocating for a more "kid glove" "never tell someone the unvarnished truth" kind of board. I honestly don't think that would be helpful. It just sometimes seems to me that somewhere along posters' journeys, where everyone starts out very respectful and "kid-glove-ish", if you will, we get to the place where everyone feels it's totally OK to tell someone quite bluntly that they are wrong, their motives are wrong, and their conflicted feelings aren't valid at all. I felt this in my last thread, because any time I responded with what were still my conflicted and disagreeing opinions, I felt that I was told, "you're being argumentative, and why did you post this if you didn't want to hear disagreements?" I felt I tried to be as respectful as I could by trying to point out why I still had conflicted feelings. And I view these threads as a dialogue, a back and forth. Just because I'm feeling defensive about something or feel the need to comment on it doesn't mean I never wanted the dialogue in the first place, so to shut me down by saying "If you didn't want our thoughts don't post that you do" isn't really helpful in that moment to me. My replies back might not BE perfectly healthy, because if I WAS perfectly healthy I might not need to post in the first place, y'know? And I did read back through the post to see if I was in some way rude or disrespectful in my tone, and I don't think I was.

And once again, I don't mean to say that I totally thought I was right and everyone else was wrong. I do feel that challenging "faulty thinking" is the biggest gift this board gives anyone. But...I guess it's a matter of tone? Because I have had two therapists in the last two years, one who I would definitely call an "in your face" kind of person, and one who isn't, but isn't any less tough necessarily, and I gotta say, I prefer therapist #2. He will let me sit on my perhaps faulty conclusion and then gently point out the opposing view, as opposed to my first therapist, who would pretty much say things like, "Any person who sacrifices their life for another person is an idiot, and we're not discussing this further". I guess, what I'm trying in a very rambling, drawn out kind of way to say is, I prefer the second style. And part of the reason I prefer it is I feel safe enough to then share the probably sick messages in my brain that still keep me sick, and then he, gently, points out, why they seem sick, or why they might be wrong. Because it is my sick thinking that keeps me sick, I know this, but I have to feel like I have a safe environment to share them in, or I will not share them at all. And I want them challenged, I do, but I do not need to hear, at a vulnerable time, something akin to, "You're a user and this is all your fault." And again, I feel the need to point out that I realize there is probably some truth even in that.

I just want to feel safe to post my truth. I do not expect to always be agreed with. I would not want that--I know that will not help me grow. For me it is a matter of tone. I think there is a way to deliver the "unvarnished truth" without further hurting the feelings of someone who already is inclined to believe they frequently make bad decisions, but who is trying to seek recovery.

Mambo Queen

And I guess as sort of an addendum to what I've been trying to say, I did want to respond to Transforms' thread, since I brought her situation up....Girl...you have done a great job of getting to the place you are now. I fear you will remain stuck in that place, though, if you don't start making progress to the next scary step of cutting him out of your life more permanently. Is filing for divorce on your radar at the moment? I think it may help you become even more "unstuck" on a lot of the issues you still have with the AH.

JenT1968

I am sorry you felt unsafe to post and glad that you feel able to bring this to the board now. Thank you for doing that, I am thankful of the prompt to reflect on what I post.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I try to remember that tone is very difficult to judge on an internet forum. I also try and remember, and see that you acknowledge, that if I ask for opinions then I'm going to get them, and it's entirely possible I won't like some of them, and that may be because the person opining has a manner that I find difficult, is saying something that doesn't apply because they don't have enough information (they can only respond to what I write) or because they have called me on a raw-nerve behaviour.


None of us here are perfect, we are all here because we have/are struggled/struggling with issues relating to an alcoholic loved one. I am loathe to post much of my stuff not because of the responses but because my H reads this board and knows who I am and uses that against me. In the past I have felt what you are feeling when I did post, I have also posted it on other's behalfs wanting to jump in (I think sometimes I did) and shout "leave her alone!" I remember one board member who was VERY blunt, I struggled hugely with her words, I miss her now that she is not here, and hasn't been for years. I suspect she's having a very jolly, happy, healthy old life, and I am thankful that for a while she chose to stay around here and show me that there are different ways of approaching things than I was used to.

I understand the "adding to my mental anguish", sometimes I have to re-read the words and see that they apply to behaviours not me, or that people are describing their own experiences not me and my behaviour.

Right this minute, I am replying to you to stop me engaging with my alcoholic tbxH who is goading me by text regarding new year's eve. I suspect he is drunk and trying to pick a fight in order to get out of being breathalysed. I am no where near healthy, as you say, if I were I would not need to be here gathering strength every day from every single poster here, old and new.

much love gentle friend xxx

transformyself

Thank you for getting to the core of the issue because this

was my experience as well and this

this is great, this is perfect, this is how I can access the message folks are trying to give me.

This
is not. I do not see that language as helpful, only hurtful and ironic. And it lacks first person format, which can always be used as a buffer if you're ever in doubt of your tone.

Yes, we come here and post to interact with each other, yes we need to be told the truth. My issue isn't an aversion to "the truth" my issue is being disrespected, again and again, in public albiet anonymously. I"m the truth speaker in my family. I prefer the truth because it gives me freedom. It helps me understand myself and that's the only thing I can change.

But each of us also have discernment about "the truth" and can take what applies to us and leave the rest. Here's where our inner wisdom comes in, something we've been denying for a long time. Here's where the program comes in. No, we don't want to get stuck, we want to keep growing to the next level, but we are powerless over others, including each others progress here.

I believe there's a sticky somewhere that talks about using first person. Here's what I did. Here's what I learned. Here's what worked for me. That is so powerful. It takes faith in others, faith in their HP and knowing we ain't it.

It takes not acting on fear. There are some posts here that make me so fearful for the author. Of course I know what's best for her! Can' she see it? I try to be helpful, try to tell my story-kindly-in a way that may eventually sink in. Faith = patience and an absence of fear.

Part of the problem may be as simple as not being impeccable with our words. In writing, on the internet, it's easy to just whip out what's coming out of our grey matter and leave it at that. Proofreading is an additional task that can eliminate misintepretations, something I didn't do in my anger yesterday and I regret it because it ended up being directed at someone who always most kind and thoughtful.

((BTW:: It's critical I publicly apologize to Jadmack as my message to her was confusing and my reactionary anger towards another was mixed in with her. For the record, Jadmack is the LAST person here that would be disrespectful. She's funny, supportive and cheerful. Always. I"m sorry to have lumped her in with that message toward someone else. ))

I think that we've all endured some forms of abuse, verbal and others. Folks react differently to it. Me personally, I have clear boundaries with folks who cross my boundaries in what I percieve to be disrespectful way. I shut down and can't hear the message.

I"m working on that. I'm working on sitting through the anger and letting it flow through me without reacting, then determining my boundary and enforcing it. I did a better job of doing that with AH two nights ago then I did with Anvil yesterday. But I'll keep working.

AFter my freak out yesterday on the boards, I was driving to pick up the kids and thinking, well, this is like one big happy dysfunctional family now isn't it? Good news is, we're all working on ourselves and can come back, process and move forward. That didn't happen in my family of origin. No sir.

hugs hugs and more gratitude for each and every one of us...

transformyself

And Dear Jen
since you aksed, stop replying to the most likely drunk, goading tbxAH. But you know me, if you can't do it yet, you will Just keep coming back.

wicked

Good morning transformyself,
this is really good for me right now.
we are all growing together and it is a thing of beauty.
thank you.
beth

Kassie2

Just adding my two-cents worth. I am sorry that you had to go through this experience when seeking support. It is another layer to the already traumatic experience of living with an AS. And as you pointed out, we are also trying to sort out how to be compassionate in the situation.

Your posting sounded very grounded and forthright. i think you see that others have either shared your viewpoint or accepted what you had to say. Good job! Hope you continue to post now that others know what you need. Would like to be supportive.

bookwyrm

I must confess, I have never before felt scared to post anything here. I appreciate the blunt posters and the tactful. I may not agree with every post I read but I certainly don't take it personally. Posters are taking time out of their busy lives, thinking about the question and replying out of care for those here. They can only respond to what I've actually written - they can't guess at the stuff I haven't put in there! And, ultimately, we all know that the decisions we make are our own responsibility. We don't have to take the advice we are given. We don't even have to read the posters who we disagree with - there is an ignore button that comes in very handy sometimes.

I am concerned that this thread seems to be reopening the agruement from yesterday's thread that was closed down. What was your motivation in starting this thread Mambo Queen? What did you want to achieve? Do you want everyone here to moderate their 'tone' to some undefined standard? Are we all in trouble? We have moderators here how do a really good job of keeping things civilised.

Tramsfomyself is the only poster here I would think twice about responding to (again) because of her angry outbursts at those she perceives as 'doing her wrong'. But that is my boundary for me. It keeps me safe. The ignore button also helps me with my boundaries on this site. Kindeyes responded with this in one of my threads ages ago:

I visualize my emotional state as a "brick". It is MY brick and I protect it carefully. Because if I give that "brick" to someone else, it gives them the POWER to bash me in the head with it. For whatever reason, we give that brick to the A's in our lives and they KNOW they have it. They lure us close to them with the right words and then WHAM they hit us upside the head with our own brick.

Take your brick back.


Take your brick back. Stop being so outraged that people on this board approach life differently to you. Think about why these things upset you so much. I know it helped me work out why I was on the defensive at times - there was an underlying unease in the back of my own mind that resonated! It also hit on my 'people pleasing' button...

DesertEyes

Chill out people.

Before you post, read this:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ease-read.html

If you post _anything_ other than what is expressed in that sticky you simply generating a load of extra work for the few volunteers that are trying to keep this place going. You know why you don't see us posting much? It's because we spend most of our time in the background chasing out pornographers, PM'ing people who are thinking of suicide, or people who's loved one just died from addiction, or spouses getting physically abused, and the ocassional child who was just raped by their drunken parent.

Everybody somebody gets temperamental on a thread we get a host of PM's from people taking sides, pointing fingers, trying to make other people change to their expectations. And while we're "putting out fires" between people who should know better, there's a terrified woman hiding under the bed covers so her husband won't see her reading SR on her blackberry.

So go get some fresh air. Take a walk. Go to the store. Go to a meeting. Talk to your sponsor, counselor, minister, etc. Roll up the windows in your car and yell. Whatever. Come back and post _tomorow_, after you've cooled off.

But whatever you do, if you are feeling angry do _not_ post here. There are people out there in the real world who are _dying_ from this disease right this minute. Angry posts, pointing fingers, accusing each other, is _not_ helping. In fact, it just makes it more difficult.

In order to assist everybody in focusing on their own recovery and sharing as per the guidelines in

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ease-read.html

I am closing this thread.

Mike
Moderator, SoberRecovery