Compilation from this board
Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 224
Rolltide, great post! I have also been divorced from my AH for several years and now that I am out of the FOG ... coming to SR to get grounded is exactly what I do! Helps me gain perception on how I wound up there and more importantly, how to not get there again. Life now is good and I am doing the best I can to enjoy all of it.
I heard someone (a normal person) the other day talking about if their cup was half full or empty and I (like most of us here I am sure) consider myself thankful to just have a cup.
Thank you for taking the time to respond.
GM
I heard someone (a normal person) the other day talking about if their cup was half full or empty and I (like most of us here I am sure) consider myself thankful to just have a cup.
Thank you for taking the time to respond.
GM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
OK, here goes w/what I consider to be the highlights of my "Wisdom of SR" folder. In most cases, I didn't record the name of the person who posted so can't give credit, but where I did record this, I will provide that info.
Original poster in an SR thread: Guess I am just waiting for a miracle and the man I used to know to come back. Reply: That, my friend, is what held me back. When I stopped hoping he would change, my life improved. I had to take all the hope and goodwill I had for him and invest it in ME. He was no longer that wonderful man. Addiction had consumed him. He was gone.
Thread about repetitive behavior, returning to a bad relationship repeatedly, doing the same things over and over: "The way you are behaving is EXACTLY like an alcoholic. This time I can control it; THIS time it will be different."
Nope, it isn't, is it? The alcoholic needs to put down the drink and YOU need to put down the alcoholic. It will never end well unless you BOTH recover. And if YOU recover, at least YOU have a chance at a decent life.
Every time you see her and rekindle all those wonderful, warm 'n' fuzzy feelings, it is EXACTLY like the alcoholic taking that first, wonderful, awful drink—relief and bliss, until the morning after.
Recovery is being asked to give up everything you know to get something better that you don't understand yet.
This one I have shared many, many times b/c it is so freaking good--from Anvilhead: Ya wanna know the SECRET to whether someone is serious about recovery or not? When they stop TALKING and start DOING. When they abandon the alcoholic oath:
I'm Sorry
Please Forgive Me
It will NEVER happen AGAIN
Talk is just squawk....noise to diffuse and disturb....
We live on a lake and have ospreys and eagles that come 'round. When they are on the hunt, there is NO doubt about their intentions...they hover above, they swoop and swirl and then DIVE after their prey. It is magnificent and silent. They have a purpose and have no NEED to announce their plan. They are unconcerned with the world around them....for the eagle there are always the attendant "murder" of crows, dive bombing, harassing, relentless...they are honed in on their goal.
Recovery is the osprey, tucking its wing in close to its body, a missile now, a projectile diving in a straight line towards the water, seeing beneath the surface to the fish.
Someone said to me, "Just because something doesn't last forever doesn't mean it didn't have value. We don't always get to keep the ones we love. You can still love them (as I do mine)--but it doesn't mean that you get to keep them."
It's a new experience for me learning to be another person’s companion and friend rather than using them as a means to make me feel better. I never wanted to feel like my life depended on keeping someone else in it ever again.
Something happens to growth, doesn't it? It seems to disappear with too much alcohol. To me it seems like there is this natural discovery process in life, relationships, insights, finding beauty. That gets turned off. The growth stops. Life isn't like a job where there are clear cut goals to be accomplished. Instead, it's a process of discovery, and with that discovery comes insight and amazement. My point being that discovery of life takes us places we weren't even looking for, insights we had no idea existed, new knowledge and understanding.
It's very complex, isn't it?
But alcohol takes that natural light right out of life. The dulled brain seeks no discovery, and misses it when it's right in front of it. It's the best way I can describe what is missed, even if one's career is on track and all the ducks are in a row. The light of discovery goes out.
Life isn't a to-do list that we check off accomplishments. Life is the discovery of what we weren't even looking for. And that's what brings me more happiness than anything else. Discovery. Amazement. Finding beauty in being alive where we didn't go looking, but were able to see.
The truth will set you free—but first it will p*ss you off. You may not have a problem at all, just a solution you don’t like.
Original poster in an SR thread: Guess I am just waiting for a miracle and the man I used to know to come back. Reply: That, my friend, is what held me back. When I stopped hoping he would change, my life improved. I had to take all the hope and goodwill I had for him and invest it in ME. He was no longer that wonderful man. Addiction had consumed him. He was gone.
Thread about repetitive behavior, returning to a bad relationship repeatedly, doing the same things over and over: "The way you are behaving is EXACTLY like an alcoholic. This time I can control it; THIS time it will be different."
Nope, it isn't, is it? The alcoholic needs to put down the drink and YOU need to put down the alcoholic. It will never end well unless you BOTH recover. And if YOU recover, at least YOU have a chance at a decent life.
Every time you see her and rekindle all those wonderful, warm 'n' fuzzy feelings, it is EXACTLY like the alcoholic taking that first, wonderful, awful drink—relief and bliss, until the morning after.
Recovery is being asked to give up everything you know to get something better that you don't understand yet.
This one I have shared many, many times b/c it is so freaking good--from Anvilhead: Ya wanna know the SECRET to whether someone is serious about recovery or not? When they stop TALKING and start DOING. When they abandon the alcoholic oath:
I'm Sorry
Please Forgive Me
It will NEVER happen AGAIN
Talk is just squawk....noise to diffuse and disturb....
We live on a lake and have ospreys and eagles that come 'round. When they are on the hunt, there is NO doubt about their intentions...they hover above, they swoop and swirl and then DIVE after their prey. It is magnificent and silent. They have a purpose and have no NEED to announce their plan. They are unconcerned with the world around them....for the eagle there are always the attendant "murder" of crows, dive bombing, harassing, relentless...they are honed in on their goal.
Recovery is the osprey, tucking its wing in close to its body, a missile now, a projectile diving in a straight line towards the water, seeing beneath the surface to the fish.
Someone said to me, "Just because something doesn't last forever doesn't mean it didn't have value. We don't always get to keep the ones we love. You can still love them (as I do mine)--but it doesn't mean that you get to keep them."
It's a new experience for me learning to be another person’s companion and friend rather than using them as a means to make me feel better. I never wanted to feel like my life depended on keeping someone else in it ever again.
Something happens to growth, doesn't it? It seems to disappear with too much alcohol. To me it seems like there is this natural discovery process in life, relationships, insights, finding beauty. That gets turned off. The growth stops. Life isn't like a job where there are clear cut goals to be accomplished. Instead, it's a process of discovery, and with that discovery comes insight and amazement. My point being that discovery of life takes us places we weren't even looking for, insights we had no idea existed, new knowledge and understanding.
It's very complex, isn't it?
But alcohol takes that natural light right out of life. The dulled brain seeks no discovery, and misses it when it's right in front of it. It's the best way I can describe what is missed, even if one's career is on track and all the ducks are in a row. The light of discovery goes out.
Life isn't a to-do list that we check off accomplishments. Life is the discovery of what we weren't even looking for. And that's what brings me more happiness than anything else. Discovery. Amazement. Finding beauty in being alive where we didn't go looking, but were able to see.
The truth will set you free—but first it will p*ss you off. You may not have a problem at all, just a solution you don’t like.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
This one was HUGE for me, and still is, since it applies to every aspect of my life, not just marriage to XAH: For the first time, I realized that I was not just a hapless victim of his choices. I was a willing participant. This realization didn't bring me shame. It empowered me. If I was part of the problem, then I was also part of the solution. My fate was not tied to his. This was a very freeing moment for me.
My duty is to realize where my anger and frustration are and let go and continue on my path w/o harming others.
You are free to choose, but you are not free from the consequences of your choice.
Never make someone a priority who has made you an option.
From Florence: It's not only that we have to stop going to the hardware store for bread -- we also have to stop resenting the hardware store for not carrying bread in the first place.
In hindsight, I can see that the resentment was not about carrying the load, because I am for sure carrying the load now and I don’t have resentment. My resentment was that I felt that I was being forced to accept a situation that I found unacceptable. I was resentful that I could not force/coerce/convince him to make a different choice, and I was angry and resentful because I was unwilling to do so. I didn’t see that I had any choices, but I did—I just didn’t like them or give myself permission to make them.
"Abandon" is used when you walk away from someone you are responsible for, someone weaker and unable to care for themselves, like a dog or a child.
"Leave" is the word we use for someone who's totally capable of taking care of themselves but chooses not to.
Neither of you is in love w/the other person, only w/who you wish the other one would be.
Whatever you're feeling is never WRONG. The only thing that can be wrong is how you act based on your feelings.
Most friends and family during the throes of active addiction “think” that they just want their s/o to get sober. Most friends and family actually want more than just sobriety; they want the person to engage in the process I’ll call self-enlightenment. They want the addict to become emotionally mature. Read around these forums and see how many people are unhappy even when their loved one becomes sober because the addict never engaged in the process of true recovery/enlightenment/emotional maturity.
My duty is to realize where my anger and frustration are and let go and continue on my path w/o harming others.
You are free to choose, but you are not free from the consequences of your choice.
Never make someone a priority who has made you an option.
From Florence: It's not only that we have to stop going to the hardware store for bread -- we also have to stop resenting the hardware store for not carrying bread in the first place.
In hindsight, I can see that the resentment was not about carrying the load, because I am for sure carrying the load now and I don’t have resentment. My resentment was that I felt that I was being forced to accept a situation that I found unacceptable. I was resentful that I could not force/coerce/convince him to make a different choice, and I was angry and resentful because I was unwilling to do so. I didn’t see that I had any choices, but I did—I just didn’t like them or give myself permission to make them.
"Abandon" is used when you walk away from someone you are responsible for, someone weaker and unable to care for themselves, like a dog or a child.
"Leave" is the word we use for someone who's totally capable of taking care of themselves but chooses not to.
Neither of you is in love w/the other person, only w/who you wish the other one would be.
Whatever you're feeling is never WRONG. The only thing that can be wrong is how you act based on your feelings.
Most friends and family during the throes of active addiction “think” that they just want their s/o to get sober. Most friends and family actually want more than just sobriety; they want the person to engage in the process I’ll call self-enlightenment. They want the addict to become emotionally mature. Read around these forums and see how many people are unhappy even when their loved one becomes sober because the addict never engaged in the process of true recovery/enlightenment/emotional maturity.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
I wish I had had the maturity to see him for who he was when we were dating, and the self-confidence to say to myself, "I am better off alone than with an addict." To be sure, "alcoholic" wasn't the sum of all he was; he was a funny, witty, brilliant man who cried with me when we buried our first pet. I will always love him. But I could have spent those twenty-five years loving someone who was sober and had those same characteristics.
Regarding an SR member seeing on social media about their X and their "wonderful new life" and "wonderful new GF/BF"--I try to think of it this way- If I threw a moldy sandwich in a Dumpster, would I really be jealous of the person who was so starved for crumbs that they would dive in the Dumpster to pick it up?
Forgiving someone means you no longer dwell on what an asshat they are; it doesn't mean they are no longer an asshat.
Letting go doesn’t mean you stop caring. It means you stop trying to force others to.
If you think you shouldn't leave b/c you still care for him, realize that it's better to leave while you still care than to wait until you hate him.
You are not required to set yourself on fire to keep other people warm.
It is never about "them", it is about why are we with them!!!
Sometimes giving someone a second chance is like giving them an extra bullet for their gun b/c they missed you the first time.
You don’t need answers or explanations to find closure. No matter what the loss, the closure comes from inside of you, not from him.
Regarding an SR member seeing on social media about their X and their "wonderful new life" and "wonderful new GF/BF"--I try to think of it this way- If I threw a moldy sandwich in a Dumpster, would I really be jealous of the person who was so starved for crumbs that they would dive in the Dumpster to pick it up?
Forgiving someone means you no longer dwell on what an asshat they are; it doesn't mean they are no longer an asshat.
Letting go doesn’t mean you stop caring. It means you stop trying to force others to.
If you think you shouldn't leave b/c you still care for him, realize that it's better to leave while you still care than to wait until you hate him.
You are not required to set yourself on fire to keep other people warm.
It is never about "them", it is about why are we with them!!!
Sometimes giving someone a second chance is like giving them an extra bullet for their gun b/c they missed you the first time.
You don’t need answers or explanations to find closure. No matter what the loss, the closure comes from inside of you, not from him.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
This is all one big post:
"How do I stop being so compassionate?"
Stop calling what you want to do when you feel like giving in to his bad behavior "compassion".
It isn't compassion.
It is co-dependence. It is trying to fix someone else. It is anticipating and guessing what is going on in his head, as if you had a psychic line into what he thinks. It is thinking that YOU know better than he what will fix him.
It is arrogance. We do not get to live THEIR lives, even though we think we have the right to dissuade them from "the error of their ways" or protect them from what we see as their next mistaken step.
When I was married to my now ex alcoholic abusive husband, I thought that I knew what was best for him. I violated the boundaries of what was him and what was me, and I thought I knew best what would help him.
I was wrong. It took me a long time to recognize that I was being arrogant, and it was not okay for me to step into his world and re-organize it so it fit what I thought it should be.
It was - and is - my ex husband's right to life an independent life, as HE sees fit. He is an adult. He has the right to choose to live however he wants to, and he has the right and the obligation to face the consequences of his choices without my intervention, manipulation, or direction. What I think will be his salvation - my prescription for his behavior - is merely my head trip into his life.
This may sound harsh, but for me, it was the beginning of separating myself from the intermeshed kind of joint "personality" we had become, where I watched out for what I thought he needed and saw life from his perspective more than I did from my own.
This, to me, is the beginning of freedom. Said with great empathy, take what you want and leave the rest.
"How do I stop being so compassionate?"
Stop calling what you want to do when you feel like giving in to his bad behavior "compassion".
It isn't compassion.
It is co-dependence. It is trying to fix someone else. It is anticipating and guessing what is going on in his head, as if you had a psychic line into what he thinks. It is thinking that YOU know better than he what will fix him.
It is arrogance. We do not get to live THEIR lives, even though we think we have the right to dissuade them from "the error of their ways" or protect them from what we see as their next mistaken step.
When I was married to my now ex alcoholic abusive husband, I thought that I knew what was best for him. I violated the boundaries of what was him and what was me, and I thought I knew best what would help him.
I was wrong. It took me a long time to recognize that I was being arrogant, and it was not okay for me to step into his world and re-organize it so it fit what I thought it should be.
It was - and is - my ex husband's right to life an independent life, as HE sees fit. He is an adult. He has the right to choose to live however he wants to, and he has the right and the obligation to face the consequences of his choices without my intervention, manipulation, or direction. What I think will be his salvation - my prescription for his behavior - is merely my head trip into his life.
This may sound harsh, but for me, it was the beginning of separating myself from the intermeshed kind of joint "personality" we had become, where I watched out for what I thought he needed and saw life from his perspective more than I did from my own.
This, to me, is the beginning of freedom. Said with great empathy, take what you want and leave the rest.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
Post from SR regarding “functioning alcoholic”: I'm not going to be very eloquent here, but when people who aren't in it use the phrase "functioning alcoholic" or imply that the situation isn't that difficult because the alcoholic is able to maintain a job and doesn't beat anyone, or because they "obviously" care for their families, those people are dismissing the biggest parts of what makes humans who we are. The fact that a person can hold a job, can move about the world without stumbling and hurting themselves or others, that they can make a sandwich for their kids - those functions don't make a human a full and complete human. A robot can do all of those things. To truly function, a human has to be able to do more than that, and honestly a human doesn't need to be able to do the things above to be able to "function" as a human being. The other things - like connecting to others with truth - are so much more important. I've come to the realization that there's no such thing as a functioning alcoholic. There may be physically capable alcoholics, but that's as far as I can go.
Knowing a thing does not change a thing. That takes hard work, understanding and awareness. From PhoenixJ
Knowing a thing does not change a thing. That takes hard work, understanding and awareness. From PhoenixJ
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
Whew! That was a lot! It was good for me to go back through all those pages, gave me a really good perspective on how far I've come and how far I have to go. Thanks for giving me the opportunity and a reason to do that.
Hoping there are at least a few AHA moments that come from reading through these. Let me close w/this:
Hoping there are at least a few AHA moments that come from reading through these. Let me close w/this:
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
Originally Posted by honeypig 
Whew! That was a lot! It was good for me to go back through all those pages, gave me a really good perspective on how far I've come and how far I have to go. Thanks for giving me the opportunity and a reason to do that.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,781
Originally posted by Lillamy (quote from her DD):
Survivors use their past to propel them forward. Victims use their past to refuse moving ahead.
Originally Posted by Florence:
What if you aren't perfect? What if you fail? When I embraced that I am already imperfect and that I will absolutely fail, and that these things are okay, I was free.
(I found this incredibly inspirational & so similar to my own outlook in life) Originally Posted by jaynie04:
I have had moments of pure ecstasy in my life…it wasn't the big notable events but rather simple events that I can pick out looking back.
Gunking the engine of my first car I bought after saving my waitress tips when I was 16, romance that took my breath away, my first job, my first apartment, having noisy neighbors upstairs move away, wetting my pants laughing in Central Park and having my girlfriends make a toga for me out of a table cloth, bumping in to someone I worked with tell me years later who told me I changed their life, stepping onto a fresh sheet of ice at the rink alone in the morning, having my one year old little girl gaze up at me while she chewed on her toes on my bed, sitting on the floor on my antique store wiring crystals to a chandelier after hours with James Taylor playing, having a stewardess ask us if we were newlyweds on a plane when we were really celebrating our 13th anniversary, seeing a houseplant come back to life, the first purr from a feral cat that I had worked with for months, getting any cat in a carrier without mortal wounds, leaving rehab and seeing the sign that said "you are a miracle"…. Just today I figured out how to program the garage door opener and I did a little dance."Go Jaynie, you're a rock star".
The exquisite moments were brought into sharper relief because they were set against normal days if you will. Like music has refrains that we go back to between verses, or eating sorbet between intricate courses, or the fact that springtime seems sweeter because of the winter, health seems more precious when we have been ill, heck we even wait to pass Go in Monopoly, it's the anticipate of what lays ahead that keeps it interesting.
That is life. Sometime the cadence stretches out and the pauses are longer between the punctuation. Serenity comes when we take ownership of the fact that absolutely no one else on earth will ever be on our personal journey. But there is a secondary gift too, it is that of being allowed to get glimpses into others journeys. I believe that is what we have here. It is a privilege to be able to share the pauses and the accelerations.
Originally Posted by LaTeeDa:
Success stories come in many forms. There are many here with success stories, but if your definition of success is limited to only one possible outcome, then you see other outcomes as failure.
Originally Posted by Florence (re: the movie, August: Osage County)
I want to see this movie a lot. I read a great essay that mentioned this movie and the Julia Roberts character along with the "strong woman" tropes that we so love in the US, basically saying that what we consider a "strong woman" is someone who has been burdened with responsibilities and pain outside of her control and somehow kept it together. In other words, trauma. A lot of trauma.
Originally Posted by Lulu39 (in response to re: the movie, August: Osage County)
I presented at a stillbirth/neonatal death conference a few years ago. I spoke about the idealisation of "the STRONG woman". About how, in my experience of western culture, it's not a comfort to bereaved parents/people to tell them "OMG you are SO STRONG!" or "I don't know how you do it, or "If I was you I'd not be able to cope" etc etc etc. Platitudes. And insulting. They'd cope. The Universe/God/ a higher power doesn't "choose us" to deal with this crap because we are "so strong" and therefore can deal with it.
We keep it together because we have to. We have no choice. If we don't keep it together the only way out is more dysfunction, more hell on earth or even worse...
I'm just putting one foot in front of the other and breathing.
I hate it when people tell me I am so "strong". Want to slap them. I am weak and human just like everybody else.
Survivors use their past to propel them forward. Victims use their past to refuse moving ahead.
Originally Posted by Florence:
What if you aren't perfect? What if you fail? When I embraced that I am already imperfect and that I will absolutely fail, and that these things are okay, I was free.
(I found this incredibly inspirational & so similar to my own outlook in life) Originally Posted by jaynie04:
I have had moments of pure ecstasy in my life…it wasn't the big notable events but rather simple events that I can pick out looking back.
Gunking the engine of my first car I bought after saving my waitress tips when I was 16, romance that took my breath away, my first job, my first apartment, having noisy neighbors upstairs move away, wetting my pants laughing in Central Park and having my girlfriends make a toga for me out of a table cloth, bumping in to someone I worked with tell me years later who told me I changed their life, stepping onto a fresh sheet of ice at the rink alone in the morning, having my one year old little girl gaze up at me while she chewed on her toes on my bed, sitting on the floor on my antique store wiring crystals to a chandelier after hours with James Taylor playing, having a stewardess ask us if we were newlyweds on a plane when we were really celebrating our 13th anniversary, seeing a houseplant come back to life, the first purr from a feral cat that I had worked with for months, getting any cat in a carrier without mortal wounds, leaving rehab and seeing the sign that said "you are a miracle"…. Just today I figured out how to program the garage door opener and I did a little dance."Go Jaynie, you're a rock star".
The exquisite moments were brought into sharper relief because they were set against normal days if you will. Like music has refrains that we go back to between verses, or eating sorbet between intricate courses, or the fact that springtime seems sweeter because of the winter, health seems more precious when we have been ill, heck we even wait to pass Go in Monopoly, it's the anticipate of what lays ahead that keeps it interesting.
That is life. Sometime the cadence stretches out and the pauses are longer between the punctuation. Serenity comes when we take ownership of the fact that absolutely no one else on earth will ever be on our personal journey. But there is a secondary gift too, it is that of being allowed to get glimpses into others journeys. I believe that is what we have here. It is a privilege to be able to share the pauses and the accelerations.
Originally Posted by LaTeeDa:
Success stories come in many forms. There are many here with success stories, but if your definition of success is limited to only one possible outcome, then you see other outcomes as failure.
Originally Posted by Florence (re: the movie, August: Osage County)
I want to see this movie a lot. I read a great essay that mentioned this movie and the Julia Roberts character along with the "strong woman" tropes that we so love in the US, basically saying that what we consider a "strong woman" is someone who has been burdened with responsibilities and pain outside of her control and somehow kept it together. In other words, trauma. A lot of trauma.
Originally Posted by Lulu39 (in response to re: the movie, August: Osage County)
I presented at a stillbirth/neonatal death conference a few years ago. I spoke about the idealisation of "the STRONG woman". About how, in my experience of western culture, it's not a comfort to bereaved parents/people to tell them "OMG you are SO STRONG!" or "I don't know how you do it, or "If I was you I'd not be able to cope" etc etc etc. Platitudes. And insulting. They'd cope. The Universe/God/ a higher power doesn't "choose us" to deal with this crap because we are "so strong" and therefore can deal with it.
We keep it together because we have to. We have no choice. If we don't keep it together the only way out is more dysfunction, more hell on earth or even worse...
I'm just putting one foot in front of the other and breathing.
I hate it when people tell me I am so "strong". Want to slap them. I am weak and human just like everybody else.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,781
Originally Posted by honeypig
Holy cow, what a collection we have here.
"You don't have a problem so much as a solution you don't like."
It's often a hard but necessary truth to acknowledge.... even if it doesn't change our subsequent actions. Just OWNING the truth of the situation internally sometimes is a big step we have to take to get just to GET to the next one, where we can take action.
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Central O-H-I-O
Posts: 1,689
"Drop/let go of the rope, or be dragged"
This one was most beneficial when the booze was taking over and we went from a somewhat-rational conversation to a drunken one. Once I learned to drop the rope, it was easier to walk away from a nothing rant.
Sometimes I still grab the rope, but I'm quicker to "drop it like it's hot".
This one was most beneficial when the booze was taking over and we went from a somewhat-rational conversation to a drunken one. Once I learned to drop the rope, it was easier to walk away from a nothing rant.
Sometimes I still grab the rope, but I'm quicker to "drop it like it's hot".
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