what to do in situations like this
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what to do in situations like this
I'm still working on figuring out this detachment principle. It bothers me greatly that AH doesn't really take care of his health.. well honestly it drives me nuts.
He'll get sick and then do this woe is me I just feel like I'm going to die act and want sympathy. BUT he will still be drinking, smoking like a chimney and fail to go to a doctor. This past week he has had some awful nonproductive cough that won't go away, has been waking me up and keeping him awake . Last night he slept on the couch and got "maybe 4 hours of sleep" which is probably still an understatement so I feel bad for him.
He decided to stay home from work today and work from home. I asked if he was going to go see the doctor then and he said yes, I feel awful. I asked if he was going to an urgent care place and he said he was going to try to get in and see his primary care instead because it's a little cheaper.
We made plans (he instigated) to do something tomorrow night together as a 'date'.
I asked him around mid day if he'd called his doctor (I may be meddling too much, I think) and he said he did but he couldn't see him until next week. (Personally believe he never called him). I asked if he was going to the urgent care place and he said he "didn't feel like waiting for hours to be seen" then said he's been running to the bathroom every ten minutes (not vomiting..), so he doesn't really want to go or something.
I asked if I should come up with other plans for tomorrow since if he's not willing to see a doctor or do anything in order to feel better, and if he's still stuck sick, home, not sleeping, miserable, and tied to the bathroom all day tomorrow then we won't really be able to have our date. He got upset saying I had no compassion for how he was feeling.
Did I set myself up here? I think I may have.. I guess I had expectations that we had plans that were going to stick. Expectations that he would want to take care of himself so he feels good for our date. Expectations that he wasn't lazy as crap and unwilling to take care of his own self. Ug. I told him I was sorry he felt bad, that I loved him and did have compassion for him, but that my sympathy dries up a bit when he doesn't do anything to actively make himself feel better when there's a clear way to do that. I said you can go or not go, that's your choice, but I have a hard time being sympathetic to you feeling so crummy and ill if you won't do anything about it yourself. I'm being ignored now.
So what would have been the right thing to do...
1) not make plans?
2) stop caring about whether or not he takes care of himself? (not sure if this is possible, I think that's a major problem for me int he relationship now.. if he wont take care of himself, he becomes more and more unattractive to me as a life partner and father, and I need that perspective to keep me from expecting more out of him than he can give me)
3) not suggest or ask if he's going to see a doctor
4) not calling him out on his excuses not to go and extrapolating them to tomorrow and our date
Thoughts? Direction? I am still living with the man, I thought I'd try to coexist peacefully but I find myself disgusted so frequently by his BS. I know he told his work that he was going to the doctor's today, too. But I can't be too mad, I'm sure I've done something similar before.
He'll get sick and then do this woe is me I just feel like I'm going to die act and want sympathy. BUT he will still be drinking, smoking like a chimney and fail to go to a doctor. This past week he has had some awful nonproductive cough that won't go away, has been waking me up and keeping him awake . Last night he slept on the couch and got "maybe 4 hours of sleep" which is probably still an understatement so I feel bad for him.
He decided to stay home from work today and work from home. I asked if he was going to go see the doctor then and he said yes, I feel awful. I asked if he was going to an urgent care place and he said he was going to try to get in and see his primary care instead because it's a little cheaper.
We made plans (he instigated) to do something tomorrow night together as a 'date'.
I asked him around mid day if he'd called his doctor (I may be meddling too much, I think) and he said he did but he couldn't see him until next week. (Personally believe he never called him). I asked if he was going to the urgent care place and he said he "didn't feel like waiting for hours to be seen" then said he's been running to the bathroom every ten minutes (not vomiting..), so he doesn't really want to go or something.
I asked if I should come up with other plans for tomorrow since if he's not willing to see a doctor or do anything in order to feel better, and if he's still stuck sick, home, not sleeping, miserable, and tied to the bathroom all day tomorrow then we won't really be able to have our date. He got upset saying I had no compassion for how he was feeling.
Did I set myself up here? I think I may have.. I guess I had expectations that we had plans that were going to stick. Expectations that he would want to take care of himself so he feels good for our date. Expectations that he wasn't lazy as crap and unwilling to take care of his own self. Ug. I told him I was sorry he felt bad, that I loved him and did have compassion for him, but that my sympathy dries up a bit when he doesn't do anything to actively make himself feel better when there's a clear way to do that. I said you can go or not go, that's your choice, but I have a hard time being sympathetic to you feeling so crummy and ill if you won't do anything about it yourself. I'm being ignored now.
So what would have been the right thing to do...
1) not make plans?
2) stop caring about whether or not he takes care of himself? (not sure if this is possible, I think that's a major problem for me int he relationship now.. if he wont take care of himself, he becomes more and more unattractive to me as a life partner and father, and I need that perspective to keep me from expecting more out of him than he can give me)
3) not suggest or ask if he's going to see a doctor
4) not calling him out on his excuses not to go and extrapolating them to tomorrow and our date
Thoughts? Direction? I am still living with the man, I thought I'd try to coexist peacefully but I find myself disgusted so frequently by his BS. I know he told his work that he was going to the doctor's today, too. But I can't be too mad, I'm sure I've done something similar before.
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Originally Posted by MissFixit 
What do you want from this man, that is realistic?
If you are getting a divorce maybe date night should be put on the back burner??
If you are getting a divorce maybe date night should be put on the back burner??
I don't know, I guess I'm very confused at the moment. I posted (I thought) about thinking I needed to be more certain that I was ready for the divorce, that I had only been headed down this path for a few months and I didn't want to end up guilt ridden with doubts for the rest of my life that I rushed from happily codependent to bitter angry and divorced in a matter of 3 months or less. I wrote that I thought I needed a little more time, serenity, and calm before deciding something major. I don't have a lot of hope for the future or anything. I don't know, you can probably feel the ambivalence in my writing.. lol.
We sat down last night and talked out a budget we could both stick to and said if we could agree to some basics, regular counseling and ground rules like no name calling then we can give this one last go. He seems committed to that, and if he can stick to it, who knows, but it could put me in a much better financial position after all the debt we've gotten into as he is working now and should be making good money in the next month. So regardless of the ultimate decision I didn't see how this could hurt.
I just wanted to be sure for me... if that makes sense. If I fly through this relationship without taking enough time to learn my part in things (and I know I had a huge part in things as well) then what's the point, to be 'free', full of doubt and codependent feelings and get sucked back into another bad relationship? I do feel this will probably end in divorce, and I am still wrapping my head around it I guess. It's hard to go from one extreme to another in a short period of time. I wanted to give myself the time to take this at a pace I can handle..
What I expect from him that is realistic? I don't know, I guess my expectations are unrealistic if I think he'll want to take care of himself. So how do I detach from that.. I thought that was what my question was. Forgive my foggy brain. So much going on these weeks. My apologies if my posts aren't adding up. I suppose if I was in my right mind all along, I wouldn't be here, but I am, trying to sort things out.
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I asked if I should come up with other plans for tomorrow since if he's not willing to see a doctor or do anything in order to feel better, and if he's still stuck sick, home, not sleeping, miserable, and tied to the bathroom all day tomorrow then we won't really be able to have our date. He got upset saying I had no compassion for how he was feeling.
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Hugs. I know this is confusing.
If I was in your shoes, then I would make a pro and con list for the relationship and a list of important things I wanted in life (not things per se, but you get my drift). We all move at our own paces. But, if staying in this relationship makes you start doubting yourself or questioning things you already resolved internally, then maybe that is something to consider too.
I for one tried to get out of my relationship very early on. I felt guilty and wanted to keep giving him chances, so when he chased after me, I went back. After years together it became sooooo much harder to let go. He ultimately left me for OW. In hindsight (in my situation) I wish that I had listened to my gut early on before things got harder and more complicated.
Protecting yourself financially is a responsible thing to do, but how do you know, not assume that the situation will get better and he will follow through with your "deal?" Is that another expectation that might go unmet?
Expecting anything from an active A (IMHO) other than drinking, lies and broken promises is unrealistic in my experience.
HUGS
If I was in your shoes, then I would make a pro and con list for the relationship and a list of important things I wanted in life (not things per se, but you get my drift). We all move at our own paces. But, if staying in this relationship makes you start doubting yourself or questioning things you already resolved internally, then maybe that is something to consider too.
I for one tried to get out of my relationship very early on. I felt guilty and wanted to keep giving him chances, so when he chased after me, I went back. After years together it became sooooo much harder to let go. He ultimately left me for OW. In hindsight (in my situation) I wish that I had listened to my gut early on before things got harder and more complicated.
Protecting yourself financially is a responsible thing to do, but how do you know, not assume that the situation will get better and he will follow through with your "deal?" Is that another expectation that might go unmet?
Expecting anything from an active A (IMHO) other than drinking, lies and broken promises is unrealistic in my experience.
HUGS
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Originally Posted by LaTeeDa
Well, are you giving it one last try with detachment and focusing on yourself? Or are you giving one last try at "fixing" him?
L
L
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Originally Posted by tjp613
Personally, I thought this was a little harsh. I think I might have said "Ok, well, we'll postpone our date for another night when you're feeling better" and left it at that. Then I would have gone about the business of making other plans if that's what I wanted to do.
At the same time, I'm ridiculously sick of hearing about how he doesn't feel well when he does nothing about it, and I guess I don't want to be poked for sympathy every 5 minutes as a way that he is checking to see if I still care for him.
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Originally Posted by MissFixit
Hugs. I know this is confusing.
If I was in your shoes, then I would make a pro and con list for the relationship and a list of important things I wanted in life (not things per se, but you get my drift). We all move at our own paces. But, if staying in this relationship makes you start doubting yourself or questioning things you already resolved internally, then maybe that is something to consider too.
I for one tried to get out of my relationship very early on. I felt guilty and wanted to keep giving him chances, so when he chased after me, I went back. After years together it became sooooo much harder to let go. He ultimately left me for OW. In hindsight (in my situation) I wish that I had listened to my gut early on before things got harder and more complicated.
Protecting yourself financially is a responsible thing to do, but how do you know, not assume that the situation will get better and he will follow through with your "deal?" Is that another expectation that might go unmet?
Expecting anything from an active A (IMHO) other than drinking, lies and broken promises is unrealistic in my experience.
HUGS
If I was in your shoes, then I would make a pro and con list for the relationship and a list of important things I wanted in life (not things per se, but you get my drift). We all move at our own paces. But, if staying in this relationship makes you start doubting yourself or questioning things you already resolved internally, then maybe that is something to consider too.
I for one tried to get out of my relationship very early on. I felt guilty and wanted to keep giving him chances, so when he chased after me, I went back. After years together it became sooooo much harder to let go. He ultimately left me for OW. In hindsight (in my situation) I wish that I had listened to my gut early on before things got harder and more complicated.
Protecting yourself financially is a responsible thing to do, but how do you know, not assume that the situation will get better and he will follow through with your "deal?" Is that another expectation that might go unmet?
Expecting anything from an active A (IMHO) other than drinking, lies and broken promises is unrealistic in my experience.
HUGS
My AH and I have only known each other a grand total of 3.5 years. We have been married for 2. It happened quickly, and I have come to terms with a lot of things I was previously afraid of like--I can't give up on my marriage, I cannot imagine being 'divorced', I don't want to be back in the dating world (sometimes now it sounds fun again..), etc. So I have taken some big strides in my thinking and fears about ending the relationship.
I guess the point in this 'last chance' is for me, and for me to try to give it the last go with me taking care of me, and keeping the focus on myself, and not on trying to make him do things my way. So I guess my answer to my first post is, whoops.
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Detatchment is a wonderful thing. I've made progress but I'm still working. I depend on him to support our family financially and fortunately that's something he can do. Expecting basic civility from him is asking too much and setting myself up for disappointment. I still need to work on detatching from that expectation... it's challenging. I still haven't given up hope that maybe someday...
Meanwhile, I make my plans without him. The few plans that include him go on with or without him. Whatever you had planned together, you can do it without him, maybe invite a friend or do something else with that time that you'd enjoy.
My AH has been so insensitive to me for so many years when I've been sick, I'm afraid he doesn't get much concern or sympathy from me when he's sick anymore. He doesn't expect it or even seem to want it anyway.
It sounds so simple... "focus on yourself." But it takes practice. Practice, practice, and more practice. What can you do for yourself?
Meanwhile, I make my plans without him. The few plans that include him go on with or without him. Whatever you had planned together, you can do it without him, maybe invite a friend or do something else with that time that you'd enjoy.
My AH has been so insensitive to me for so many years when I've been sick, I'm afraid he doesn't get much concern or sympathy from me when he's sick anymore. He doesn't expect it or even seem to want it anyway.
It sounds so simple... "focus on yourself." But it takes practice. Practice, practice, and more practice. What can you do for yourself?
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SO FRUSTRATED. maybe I should just stop .. I don't know if I can do this.
I just called him and said, hey, I'm sorry for sticking my nose in your business before about you going to the doctor, that's none of my business. I apologize. He said ok.. I said, that being said, do you think you will be up for going out tomorrow night still?
I thought the way I was saying this was kind and caring but he immediately got angry and said a bunch of stuff like, wow, I cannot believe you, forget it, you know what, when you actually care at all, then maybe I'll talk to you. I said, look I was just asking if you thought you'd still be up for our date tomorrow, I said I'm sorry about the doctor thing, what is the problem? He wouldn't articulate but said I was just so mean and if I decided to have some compassion then maybe he'd talk to me.
raaah. You guys and everyone else were right. This kind of thing happens _all_ the time. I'm so angry I want to give up again. This isn't detaching. But I'm just going mad from it all. For all I know he's at home drinking because he stayed home from work today 'sick'. He said he was about to lay down for a bit, which is usually what he does after drinking in the middle of the day.
I think it would be better just to get off the ride, I don't know. I'll decide later. But for now I think I need replacement plans.
I just called him and said, hey, I'm sorry for sticking my nose in your business before about you going to the doctor, that's none of my business. I apologize. He said ok.. I said, that being said, do you think you will be up for going out tomorrow night still?
I thought the way I was saying this was kind and caring but he immediately got angry and said a bunch of stuff like, wow, I cannot believe you, forget it, you know what, when you actually care at all, then maybe I'll talk to you. I said, look I was just asking if you thought you'd still be up for our date tomorrow, I said I'm sorry about the doctor thing, what is the problem? He wouldn't articulate but said I was just so mean and if I decided to have some compassion then maybe he'd talk to me.
raaah. You guys and everyone else were right. This kind of thing happens _all_ the time. I'm so angry I want to give up again. This isn't detaching. But I'm just going mad from it all. For all I know he's at home drinking because he stayed home from work today 'sick'. He said he was about to lay down for a bit, which is usually what he does after drinking in the middle of the day.
I think it would be better just to get off the ride, I don't know. I'll decide later. But for now I think I need replacement plans.
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Originally Posted by honoryourself
This isn't detaching.
Detaching means separating your "stuff." Not the material stuff, but the other stuff.
Not calling the doctor. His stuff.
Whining for sympathy. His stuff.
Drinking during the day. His stuff.
Nagging him to call the doctor. Your stuff.
Pushing about "date night." Your stuff.
Expectations. Your stuff.
If you want to practice loving detachment, then you must also let go of enmeshment. Leave his business to him, and go about your business. (i.e. if he complains about being sick, tell him you are sorry he doesn't feel well, but since you are not a doctor, there isn't much you can do for him) It's nearly impossible to be compassionate and detached when you are angry. You must stop setting yourself up to be angry by expecting him to behave differently than he always has.
The most important part of detachment is getting on with your own life, regardless of what he is doing.
L
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I appreciate your post. I think detaching may include stop asking them questions..but gosh it is so hard.
I am biting my tongue today to keep from asking my ah "What part of you being better involves drinking xx amount of beer in the past 3 days?"...but I'm not going to do it. It will have no affect.
Detach, detach...I am feeling sad today.
I remember this from somewhere:
Confucious say, "When you lose hope, you feel much bettah"...that's making me giggle.
I am biting my tongue today to keep from asking my ah "What part of you being better involves drinking xx amount of beer in the past 3 days?"...but I'm not going to do it. It will have no affect.
Detach, detach...I am feeling sad today.
I remember this from somewhere:
Confucious say, "When you lose hope, you feel much bettah"...that's making me giggle.
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Thanks LaTeeDa. I need these reminders in my daily life. I appreciate you breaking it down for me.
The only time I felt I was able to detach was by physically separating myself from him and not planning on spending time with him and not planning on any interaction with him to result in happiness. I think if I were to keep to myself and my friends and all, this would be easier... but as soon as I think he's going to hang out with me or work on something around the house that needs to get done or cooperate with me on something, then I get all gooey and sucked in.
I don't want to be angry.. I don't want to be excited and let down. I guess I ought just not agree to date nights...if I can't handle being let down at the last minute.
The only time I felt I was able to detach was by physically separating myself from him and not planning on spending time with him and not planning on any interaction with him to result in happiness. I think if I were to keep to myself and my friends and all, this would be easier... but as soon as I think he's going to hang out with me or work on something around the house that needs to get done or cooperate with me on something, then I get all gooey and sucked in.
I don't want to be angry.. I don't want to be excited and let down. I guess I ought just not agree to date nights...if I can't handle being let down at the last minute.
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Yep, it's his health and HE has to want to go to the doctor.
I used to hassle my AH so much to go to the doctor that he just started lying about it -
"Yep, I went and got a blood test"
"He said it's just a virus"
etc etc.
I am not his mother and I have my own health issues that he NEVER cares about.
Let him feel worse and let him not take responsibility for himself and if he becomes unattractive to you then so be it.
Alot of men wont take responsibility for their health, but alcoholics wont take responsibility for anything.
You look after your health!!
I used to hassle my AH so much to go to the doctor that he just started lying about it -
"Yep, I went and got a blood test"
"He said it's just a virus"
etc etc.
I am not his mother and I have my own health issues that he NEVER cares about.
Let him feel worse and let him not take responsibility for himself and if he becomes unattractive to you then so be it.
Alot of men wont take responsibility for their health, but alcoholics wont take responsibility for anything.
You look after your health!!
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hi honour yourself-
i understand you are feeling very confused. i remember being that confused when i arrived here. i didn't trust myself anymore. i was so confused i couldn't even think straight or make any decisions. i understood that i was sick at this stage and needed to do something or have a nervous breakdown.
during my confusion, bad things were happening. i was too confused to deal with it, just really at the end of my emotional resources.
i decided i was confused and i was going to follow the advice of the people here, as they didn't seem confused. they seemed peaceful and loving. it was a rather desperate plan but i was too confused to make a different plan.
they recommended some distance. i went to my mothers.
they recommended alanon. i went.
they recommended reading books. i read them.
they recommended no contact. i didn't do this right away but i should have.
what helped me get unconfused (not totally mind you) was to get clear of my alcoholic for a month.
for myself, i don't think i could have gotten unconfused without getting some distance from him, as we were so entangled at that stage.
i understand you are feeling very confused. i remember being that confused when i arrived here. i didn't trust myself anymore. i was so confused i couldn't even think straight or make any decisions. i understood that i was sick at this stage and needed to do something or have a nervous breakdown.
during my confusion, bad things were happening. i was too confused to deal with it, just really at the end of my emotional resources.
i decided i was confused and i was going to follow the advice of the people here, as they didn't seem confused. they seemed peaceful and loving. it was a rather desperate plan but i was too confused to make a different plan.
they recommended some distance. i went to my mothers.
they recommended alanon. i went.
they recommended reading books. i read them.
they recommended no contact. i didn't do this right away but i should have.
what helped me get unconfused (not totally mind you) was to get clear of my alcoholic for a month.
for myself, i don't think i could have gotten unconfused without getting some distance from him, as we were so entangled at that stage.
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The only time I felt I was able to detach was by physically separating myself from him and not planning on spending time with him and not planning on any interaction with him to result in happiness.
This is the reason that many people go no contact. IMHO
This is the reason that many people go no contact. IMHO
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Originally Posted by LaTeeDa
You must stop setting yourself up to be angry by expecting him to behave differently than he always has.
The most important part of detachment is getting on with your own life, regardless of what he is doing.
L
It's part one that's got me stuck. I read it. I understand it. I believe it. I look away and can't remember what it was. I know it was important so I read it again. I think, part one is the thing getting in the way of doing part part two really well. What was it again?
I've come up with an anology... If I had been given a cat when I really wanted a dog, I'd be foolish to get mad at the cat for not acting like a dog. I'd be even more foolish to whine, moan and complain that my life would be great if only my cat would act more like a dog. I can either accept the cat the way it is or get rid of it. But, but but...
Okay, maybe it's not quite that simple but... the point I have to remember is, enjoying my life regardless of AH and his mean, rude, abusive behavior is the goal. Getting mad at AH for being the same mean, rude, abusive alcoholic he's been for most of our marriage doesn't do anything but get in the way of me enjoying my day.
Okay, staying away from him, especially at night, when he drinks. It's the best I can do right now.
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Well, just because I understand detachment doesn't mean I could do it. At least not under the same roof.
I've said before that I think those who stay and detach must be a lot stronger than me. I just couldn't do it. And, honestly, I've seen very few people post here who have done it and found peace. (A few, but not many.)
L
I've said before that I think those who stay and detach must be a lot stronger than me. I just couldn't do it. And, honestly, I've seen very few people post here who have done it and found peace. (A few, but not many.)
L
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