Can any UK members help answer this question??
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 29
Can any UK members help answer this question??
I have been told that if someone has been in Rehab twice and it has failed, then the NHS won't pay for any more attempts?
Does anyone in the UK know if this is true for us over here???
Thing is, it seems awful to me that they would just let someone fall back into alcoholism without allowing further attempts...from what I have been reading, 2 attempts is very few, for success in many people.
What are the options available for my friend now that she has had two failed rehabs??? They cannot afford to pay for more private help.
The doctor seems worse than useless...she had evidently convinced him or her that she was not drinking as she was given valium for withdrawal symptoms!!!
She tells me she is not taking them now (as she is drinking) but what doctor would allow someone to have a prescription of valium for withdrawal symptoms if they are aware that the person is still drinking??!!
I have taken a tumble today, having been VERY positive last night.
I know I need to get my friend back to AA as soon as possible but I don't think that is enough help for her.
What options are there left??
If she would go to the doctor again and be very honest about it, wouldn't they be able to get her into some kind of rehab??
Does anyone in the UK know if this is true for us over here???
Thing is, it seems awful to me that they would just let someone fall back into alcoholism without allowing further attempts...from what I have been reading, 2 attempts is very few, for success in many people.
What are the options available for my friend now that she has had two failed rehabs??? They cannot afford to pay for more private help.
The doctor seems worse than useless...she had evidently convinced him or her that she was not drinking as she was given valium for withdrawal symptoms!!!
She tells me she is not taking them now (as she is drinking) but what doctor would allow someone to have a prescription of valium for withdrawal symptoms if they are aware that the person is still drinking??!!
I have taken a tumble today, having been VERY positive last night.
I know I need to get my friend back to AA as soon as possible but I don't think that is enough help for her.
What options are there left??
If she would go to the doctor again and be very honest about it, wouldn't they be able to get her into some kind of rehab??
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
I'm not from the UK, but I'd like to offer you a few things to think about.
Rehab is there to give the alcoholic a running start on recovery; it can give them many tools to work with in order to stay sober out in the world.
An alcoholic will only get out of rehab what he/she puts into it.
Rehab is not a miracle cure. It is not a guarantee. It's only useful if the alcoholic chooses to make it useful.
If an alcoholic doesn't want sobriety, no amount of rehabs, AA meetings, etc are going to work.
It appears to me that you want sobriety for her more than she does.
I went through rehab in 1986. I stayed clean/sober for 4 years, but relapsed shortly after my 4 year mark.
There wasn't a second rehab. There was no one dragging me to AA meetings.
When I had enough pain and misery, I drug myself back up that long flight of steps to AA and started all over again.
Rehab is there to give the alcoholic a running start on recovery; it can give them many tools to work with in order to stay sober out in the world.
An alcoholic will only get out of rehab what he/she puts into it.
Rehab is not a miracle cure. It is not a guarantee. It's only useful if the alcoholic chooses to make it useful.
If an alcoholic doesn't want sobriety, no amount of rehabs, AA meetings, etc are going to work.
It appears to me that you want sobriety for her more than she does.
I went through rehab in 1986. I stayed clean/sober for 4 years, but relapsed shortly after my 4 year mark.
There wasn't a second rehab. There was no one dragging me to AA meetings.
When I had enough pain and misery, I drug myself back up that long flight of steps to AA and started all over again.
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
Freedom is definitely correct.
When your friend is ready and is 'sick and tired of being sick and tired', Salvation Army has an excellent rehab program and it is free. She can check the Salvation Army of the UK to find out where there centers are there.
She has to WANT recovery more than she wants to drink, and unfortunately or fortunately, whichever way you want to look at it, she has to do ALL the work.
Sounds like you care about your friend a lot, ad the best thing is to stand back and allow her to have her consequences. Sometimes, no many times, it's the consequences that 'wake the alcoholic up.'
Please keep posting and let us know how you are doing as we do care very much.
Love and hugs,
When your friend is ready and is 'sick and tired of being sick and tired', Salvation Army has an excellent rehab program and it is free. She can check the Salvation Army of the UK to find out where there centers are there.
She has to WANT recovery more than she wants to drink, and unfortunately or fortunately, whichever way you want to look at it, she has to do ALL the work.
Sounds like you care about your friend a lot, ad the best thing is to stand back and allow her to have her consequences. Sometimes, no many times, it's the consequences that 'wake the alcoholic up.'
Please keep posting and let us know how you are doing as we do care very much.
Love and hugs,
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 29
Thank you both very much.
Freedom, I have spent the evening thinking about this and I know you are very right. It IS that I want my friend's recovery more than she wants it herself.
And I have realised why.
Quite apart from the fact that she is a lovely person and I do care about her - I am actually going through a bereavement. I have lost the friend that I had for 6 months and am grieving this loss. And I think this is what is causing me to have the illusion that I can help her in some way or other; because it is a bereavement where the person is still physically here, but the person you knew is not there.
That feels actually almost harder than if the person were completely gone.
I have been saying the Serenity Prayer to myself over and over again today. The tsunami of sadness that hit me earlier today was a shock. I think it was then that I started to realise that I am actually grieving a loss here.
I have also started making a note of ways in which I believe I am or have been inadvertently Enabling her; and I am going to bring these to a halt. She may not like this and may simply back away herself. But once or twice I have picked up on very small hints that she knows that she is out of control and is afraid for herself; maybe this is part-way to her deciding that she is scared enough of her future to be able to make the decision to quit?
The "standing back" bit is very very hard for me. I have spent all my life in caring roles of one kind or another. But I have never before come across anything quite as insurmountable as this.
I think Al-Anon will ultimately help me to deal with this reluctance to stand back. I can see why it needs to be done...I just find it so against my nature to do that.
Thank you, both, and of course I will - internet access and slow computers permitting!! - keep posting here. It's a relief to find others who have been through similar pain or are still going through it; and I am still bewildered by it all but am slowly putting together the jigsaw.
p.s. Laurie, I ADORE Belgian Shepherds!! especially, Groenendaals. We had one in the family I worked for in France 30 years ago and I still miss him.
Freedom, I have spent the evening thinking about this and I know you are very right. It IS that I want my friend's recovery more than she wants it herself.
And I have realised why.
Quite apart from the fact that she is a lovely person and I do care about her - I am actually going through a bereavement. I have lost the friend that I had for 6 months and am grieving this loss. And I think this is what is causing me to have the illusion that I can help her in some way or other; because it is a bereavement where the person is still physically here, but the person you knew is not there.
That feels actually almost harder than if the person were completely gone.
I have been saying the Serenity Prayer to myself over and over again today. The tsunami of sadness that hit me earlier today was a shock. I think it was then that I started to realise that I am actually grieving a loss here.
I have also started making a note of ways in which I believe I am or have been inadvertently Enabling her; and I am going to bring these to a halt. She may not like this and may simply back away herself. But once or twice I have picked up on very small hints that she knows that she is out of control and is afraid for herself; maybe this is part-way to her deciding that she is scared enough of her future to be able to make the decision to quit?
The "standing back" bit is very very hard for me. I have spent all my life in caring roles of one kind or another. But I have never before come across anything quite as insurmountable as this.
I think Al-Anon will ultimately help me to deal with this reluctance to stand back. I can see why it needs to be done...I just find it so against my nature to do that.
Thank you, both, and of course I will - internet access and slow computers permitting!! - keep posting here. It's a relief to find others who have been through similar pain or are still going through it; and I am still bewildered by it all but am slowly putting together the jigsaw.
p.s. Laurie, I ADORE Belgian Shepherds!! especially, Groenendaals. We had one in the family I worked for in France 30 years ago and I still miss him.
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,149
I imagine it probably depends on your PCT or equivalent if you're in scotland or wales.
NICE are developing guidelines which will be published next year:
Alcohol use disorders - clinical management
but these will be guidelines, funding will not be mandatory. There are infinite pulls on the public purse, rehab is very expensive, with a very low success rate compared to a hip operation for example.
If you pit it against IVF, which costs far less, and those going through the IVF are EXTREMELY motivated they in general only get 1 chance. Two strikes seem reasonable, as those above have said its not a miracle cure, and if she hasn't got it the first two times, maybe rehab isn't for her.
have you thought about al anon for yourself?
NICE are developing guidelines which will be published next year:
Alcohol use disorders - clinical management
but these will be guidelines, funding will not be mandatory. There are infinite pulls on the public purse, rehab is very expensive, with a very low success rate compared to a hip operation for example.
If you pit it against IVF, which costs far less, and those going through the IVF are EXTREMELY motivated they in general only get 1 chance. Two strikes seem reasonable, as those above have said its not a miracle cure, and if she hasn't got it the first two times, maybe rehab isn't for her.
have you thought about al anon for yourself?
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
(((((1971)))))
I have two, my avatar is a pic of my Shania and I have Mitch also, lol and ......................... I may be getting a third one, not that they are addictive or anything, lmao
I won't go on, or I will start 'gushing' about the breed and how smart and and and, lol
Glad to find another "Belgian Lover."
I do believe Al-Anon can help you a lot. I will say a prayer for your friend.
Love and hugs,
I have two, my avatar is a pic of my Shania and I have Mitch also, lol and ......................... I may be getting a third one, not that they are addictive or anything, lmao
I won't go on, or I will start 'gushing' about the breed and how smart and and and, lol
Glad to find another "Belgian Lover."
I do believe Al-Anon can help you a lot. I will say a prayer for your friend.
Love and hugs,
Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 18,299
Originally Posted by 1971 
I have been told that if someone has been in Rehab twice and it has failed, then the NHS won't pay for any more attempts?
By who?
I live in the UK, I am not an expert on the system....but that just sounds wrong.
I would want to see where that was written down as a rule. I really doubt it is.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 29
Jen, thank you for the link. I haven't had a chance to look at it yet as I have only just logged in here today and if this slow PC won't let me open it, I will have a look tonight on my b/f's PC.
I have to ask...what is PCT??
Yes I am going to Al-Anon...I went to my first one last week and have another this Weds. On the days when my shift falls on a Weds I am going to try to find a different meeting - there are several not too far from me.
Laurie, thank you and yes I feel sure Al-Anon will help. I wish my friend's son and hubby would go but I am not in control of what they do or don't do. I can only do what I feel I need to do for ME.
Your Shania is adorable!!!
Is Mitch a groenendaal also, or another type of Belgian??
Our Jules was the most handsome boy ever. He kept me very safe in Paris when I used to walk him at night. He was soft as butter but he looked big and foreboding!!! I still miss him and this is 30 years later.
Stone, I was told it by the 'mutual friend' who told me about my friend's illness. So it is a non-medical non-professional opinion, as far as I can make out. I have no idea who told her that nor where she got it from.
Thank you all for your support. You have no idea what this means to me.
I seem to have landed in the middle of this nightmare through no fault of my own and because I knew my friend as a very different person for 6 months, it's very hard to cope with the fact that she has been changed so much.
I know everyone here can relate in some way or other to that. And this is why just being here is such a support to me.
I have to ask...what is PCT??
Yes I am going to Al-Anon...I went to my first one last week and have another this Weds. On the days when my shift falls on a Weds I am going to try to find a different meeting - there are several not too far from me.
Laurie, thank you and yes I feel sure Al-Anon will help. I wish my friend's son and hubby would go but I am not in control of what they do or don't do. I can only do what I feel I need to do for ME.
Your Shania is adorable!!!
Is Mitch a groenendaal also, or another type of Belgian??
Our Jules was the most handsome boy ever. He kept me very safe in Paris when I used to walk him at night. He was soft as butter but he looked big and foreboding!!! I still miss him and this is 30 years later.
Stone, I was told it by the 'mutual friend' who told me about my friend's illness. So it is a non-medical non-professional opinion, as far as I can make out. I have no idea who told her that nor where she got it from.
Thank you all for your support. You have no idea what this means to me.
I seem to have landed in the middle of this nightmare through no fault of my own and because I knew my friend as a very different person for 6 months, it's very hard to cope with the fact that she has been changed so much.
I know everyone here can relate in some way or other to that. And this is why just being here is such a support to me.
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,149
hi sorry 1971, PCT = primary care trust, they hold the money for a particular geographical region's health budget (more or less) and within limits have to decide on the health priorities for that region, and commission services to fill that need accordingly.
Which means in different areas, with different health needs, different services might be given priority. So in some parts of the country they might fund no rehab stays, in some 5 or 6 (I'm plucking those figures out of the air, as an exampleI have no idea what the real spread is).
but that isn't really your problem, a GP would know what was available in her local area, or the local drug and alcohol community team, which in my locality you can self refer to, or the salvation army, or AA, or alcohol concern, or the samaritans...... or......
the point being that for a motivated individual the help available, and information about it, is legion.
Glad you're going to al-anon. You say you are in the middle of this nightmare, I understand that you want to help her and care deeply about her, but you are only in the middle of it if you put yourself right there. Really its her nightmare isn't it? standing back is so very hard to do, to watch someone destroy themselves, I admire you for reaching out here and in Al-anon for help to do that
Which means in different areas, with different health needs, different services might be given priority. So in some parts of the country they might fund no rehab stays, in some 5 or 6 (I'm plucking those figures out of the air, as an exampleI have no idea what the real spread is).
but that isn't really your problem, a GP would know what was available in her local area, or the local drug and alcohol community team, which in my locality you can self refer to, or the salvation army, or AA, or alcohol concern, or the samaritans...... or......
the point being that for a motivated individual the help available, and information about it, is legion.
Glad you're going to al-anon. You say you are in the middle of this nightmare, I understand that you want to help her and care deeply about her, but you are only in the middle of it if you put yourself right there. Really its her nightmare isn't it? standing back is so very hard to do, to watch someone destroy themselves, I admire you for reaching out here and in Al-anon for help to do that
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 29
Thanks, Jen. Yes I know now what you mean. (It's what I refer to as our "Postcode Lottery"!!)
Yes I know what you mean about only being in the middle if I put myself there.
I have set myself a resolve tonight. I am seeing her briefly after work and I am going to set down the first of my "ground rules". I have no idea how she will take this and she may herself bail out, in which case that will be it for the viability of any future friendship here.
I have resolved that she shall know that whilst I care very much about her, I also care that she should LIVE and that if she doesn't want to force herself to take a step towards helping herself, I am not the one who is stopping her from living but she herself is.
If she cannot take this off me, then I can only shut down my caring - somehow - because she will possibly then no longer want me around her. I have a feeling she is seeing me as an Enabler and it might go either way tonight because she may accept that I am firm because I need to be for ME, or she may simply think, "oh another one who is walking out on me" and just shut herself down.
Whichever way, I will still be here and will still be going to Al-Anon because the grief doesn't just suddenly stop when someone walks out of your life or when you kick them out of it.
I will update you later, once tonight and this part of the week are over. Because this will be the test of whether she seriously wants to try and help herself, or if she really has fallen into that hopeless pit and decided to stay there because it's her safety zone.
Yes I know what you mean about only being in the middle if I put myself there.
I have set myself a resolve tonight. I am seeing her briefly after work and I am going to set down the first of my "ground rules". I have no idea how she will take this and she may herself bail out, in which case that will be it for the viability of any future friendship here.
I have resolved that she shall know that whilst I care very much about her, I also care that she should LIVE and that if she doesn't want to force herself to take a step towards helping herself, I am not the one who is stopping her from living but she herself is.
If she cannot take this off me, then I can only shut down my caring - somehow - because she will possibly then no longer want me around her. I have a feeling she is seeing me as an Enabler and it might go either way tonight because she may accept that I am firm because I need to be for ME, or she may simply think, "oh another one who is walking out on me" and just shut herself down.
Whichever way, I will still be here and will still be going to Al-Anon because the grief doesn't just suddenly stop when someone walks out of your life or when you kick them out of it.
I will update you later, once tonight and this part of the week are over. Because this will be the test of whether she seriously wants to try and help herself, or if she really has fallen into that hopeless pit and decided to stay there because it's her safety zone.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30
All rehabs will depend on the motivation of the person themselves. The Salvation Army do offer rehab, however the addicted person has to show effort to a local agency first before they will even consider assessing them for rehab. There are various rehabs all over the country, run by various different organisations including various churches. It is possible that the local PCT will only pay out twice, however this does not mean that your friend cannot access another rehab. I would let her decide about whether or not she is going to attend AA on her own and try to stop fretting about her, as there is absolutely nothing that you can do to help her make her choice to get better. It is quite possible/probable that she is not ready to do so. Remind her of the AA meetings and wait for her to ask for a lift or leave her to get there on her own - the proof she wants to get better is that she goes off her own back without any support from anybody. The doctor is unlikely to be very helpful, but you can find these support agencies in most towns or cities.
I work in this field and have realised that the only ones that get better put their whole being into recovery and fight for their lives. If I got a pound for every alcoholic/drug addict that tells me they want to get clean I would be worth a fortune by now. You have to take on board the three phrases from Al-anon - you didn't cause it, you can't cure it and you can't control it. When you take this on board you may have an easier time and lose your sense of responsibility for you friend. I hope she finds the help she needs, but she will fight for it herself when she is ready.
I work in this field and have realised that the only ones that get better put their whole being into recovery and fight for their lives. If I got a pound for every alcoholic/drug addict that tells me they want to get clean I would be worth a fortune by now. You have to take on board the three phrases from Al-anon - you didn't cause it, you can't cure it and you can't control it. When you take this on board you may have an easier time and lose your sense of responsibility for you friend. I hope she finds the help she needs, but she will fight for it herself when she is ready.
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