Confused, again
Only stepping forward
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Alabama, USA
Posts: 330
Confused, again
So it's been a week since I've had any contact with xabf. Sort of, anyway.
He actually showed up at my work a couple days ago. He owed me a good chunk of money that when I got my dogs I cut my losses and didn't expect to get it back anymore. I also had the phone company mail him a supercedere agreement.
So the other day he showed up with the money he owed me. I was shocked. My heart was racing a million miles a minute. He also gave me the agreement, fully filled out lacking nothing but my signature. He had lunch and a pack of cigs for me too....he knew I'd be in the office that day and knows when I'm in the office I rarely get out to get lunch.
I've been almost begging him, for years, to see a doctor for "this" problem or another (though I admit deep down I honestly believed that if he went to the doctor for "this" problem the doctor would turn around and tell him it's due to his drinking and if he stopped it'd get better). So even though I was concerned with what he was experiencing I was also hoping to use it to my advantage to get him to quit drinking. I hope that makes sense.
Anyway. We spent an hour one night online google searching some symptoms he was having and most of them led to a prostate issue. So I asked him to go have it checked out. But of course he never did. And I gave up. When he was at my work he asked me about the urologist I saw last year when I had my kidney infection. I told him which one and he used his cell, right there, to call and make an appointment. I was shocked.
It took all I had not to wrap my arms around him. But I didn't. I took what he did the same way I'd take it if anyone else did--their business and no place for me to comment on it.
His A sister called him while he was there with me. I could hear her over the phone. She said she was going to stop by later and did he want her to bring anything from the store for him. He said no. She asked if he wanted a case of beer. He said no.
The kids haven't seen or talked to him for a few weeks now. Two of them asked if we could go see him today. I don't know what to tell them. It's my 5 and 10 year old that want to so I'm not really sure what to say to them. I told them that he did something that made me very sad and we just need some time apart for a little while. The 5 year old said I could just drop them off at his house and leave and then come back to get them.
I don't know what to do. I don't want to take his one doctor appointment or his one "no" to an enabler as being recovery set in stone. I'm just not ready to put that kind of faith in him. Is that cold?
And I don't know what to tell the kids. Or what to do. Of course I want to say no, you can't see him ever again. But that's not fair. He was always good to them. Our problems were our problems--they were never directly affected (except the things they've seen or heard--which doesn't make it okay).
I'm just confused. Again.
He actually showed up at my work a couple days ago. He owed me a good chunk of money that when I got my dogs I cut my losses and didn't expect to get it back anymore. I also had the phone company mail him a supercedere agreement.
So the other day he showed up with the money he owed me. I was shocked. My heart was racing a million miles a minute. He also gave me the agreement, fully filled out lacking nothing but my signature. He had lunch and a pack of cigs for me too....he knew I'd be in the office that day and knows when I'm in the office I rarely get out to get lunch.
I've been almost begging him, for years, to see a doctor for "this" problem or another (though I admit deep down I honestly believed that if he went to the doctor for "this" problem the doctor would turn around and tell him it's due to his drinking and if he stopped it'd get better). So even though I was concerned with what he was experiencing I was also hoping to use it to my advantage to get him to quit drinking. I hope that makes sense.
Anyway. We spent an hour one night online google searching some symptoms he was having and most of them led to a prostate issue. So I asked him to go have it checked out. But of course he never did. And I gave up. When he was at my work he asked me about the urologist I saw last year when I had my kidney infection. I told him which one and he used his cell, right there, to call and make an appointment. I was shocked.
It took all I had not to wrap my arms around him. But I didn't. I took what he did the same way I'd take it if anyone else did--their business and no place for me to comment on it.
His A sister called him while he was there with me. I could hear her over the phone. She said she was going to stop by later and did he want her to bring anything from the store for him. He said no. She asked if he wanted a case of beer. He said no.
The kids haven't seen or talked to him for a few weeks now. Two of them asked if we could go see him today. I don't know what to tell them. It's my 5 and 10 year old that want to so I'm not really sure what to say to them. I told them that he did something that made me very sad and we just need some time apart for a little while. The 5 year old said I could just drop them off at his house and leave and then come back to get them.
I don't know what to do. I don't want to take his one doctor appointment or his one "no" to an enabler as being recovery set in stone. I'm just not ready to put that kind of faith in him. Is that cold?
And I don't know what to tell the kids. Or what to do. Of course I want to say no, you can't see him ever again. But that's not fair. He was always good to them. Our problems were our problems--they were never directly affected (except the things they've seen or heard--which doesn't make it okay).
I'm just confused. Again.
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
I don't know what to do. I don't want to take his one doctor appointment or his one "no" to an enabler as being recovery set in stone. I'm just not ready to put that kind of faith in him. Is that cold?
I'm so sorry KV. Your post makes me want to cry. I've a lump in my throat and a pain in my heart thinking about this. I know exactly what you are going through. It is so very hard to see that glimpse of that person you love so much, isn't it? It hurts so much in you heart to think, "What if...?" It doesn't help to think back to all the pain that you have suffered over the years from his disease of addiction, does it? Because maybe you feel you could have continued to tolerate it for THIS person. What have I lost out on?
I don't know if this helps you, but what I have resolved myself to is that I admit to myself that I wanted to help him, the addicted person I allowed into my life two years ago. I wanted to help him, in part so that we could be together, and I tried so many ways, but I wasn't helping him at all. Feeling sorry for him, seeing the best in him and ignoring the sickness he mires himself in and surrounds himself with, does not help him. My hope for a future with him only harmed me.
My continuing this behavior and not looking at myself is selfish and really only hurts him. I know that is a hard pill to swallow, believe me, I'm still swallowing it.
I do love him unconditionally, and I want to make the healthiest choices for myself and for him, and that means to stop enabling him. But being in a partnership with him, with shared responsibilities, I know that is enabling him. Because it always winds up that I become responsible for everything. So I have to let him go stand on his own two feet. There is nothing else I can do.
Do you remember when you were a young teen and reading that poem that starts, "If you love someone, let him go..."? I have to keep reminding myself of that, too.
Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Land of Cotton
Posts: 3,433
I'm no expert, but as far as his gestures to 'show you' how he's making progress, I would just encourage him and tell him you are glad he's taking those steps. But he's a long, long way from real recovery, right? If that is one of your boundaries, as it should be, then stick to it.
Is he the children's father?
Is he the children's father?
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
It took all I had not to wrap my arms around him. But I didn't. I took what he did the same way I'd take it if anyone else did--their business and no place for me to comment on it.
Wow! You are amazingly strong!
Sweety, you can't solve all the issues with him and the children today. So don't stess out on this, okay? What's that saying: if I have one foot in the past, one foot in the future then I am pissing all over my today.
Do something fun with the children this weekend. Something crazy fun like put on your swimsuits and draw on yourselves with washable markers. Then you can wash off your temporary tatoos with the garden hose!
Wow! You are amazingly strong!
Sweety, you can't solve all the issues with him and the children today. So don't stess out on this, okay? What's that saying: if I have one foot in the past, one foot in the future then I am pissing all over my today.
Do something fun with the children this weekend. Something crazy fun like put on your swimsuits and draw on yourselves with washable markers. Then you can wash off your temporary tatoos with the garden hose!
Only stepping forward
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Alabama, USA
Posts: 330
I did tell him I was glad he took the step to see the doctor and said that I hope the doc is able to help him with some of his pain. He said it's not a huge step but he realized it's something he really does need to do. Said he was scared to go but he needed to get checked out.
He is not their father but he has been their 'dad' for years. My older two kids are from my first marriage--he disappeared on and off when they were babies and they were 1 and 2 when he disappeared for good. Haven't talked to him for 7 years or so now. My third is from my second marriage. He's the one my older two call dad. He left three years ago. Calls every now and again (probably half a dozen times in the last two years). But as far as support, encouragement, hugs good night, so on and so forth it's been the xabf who provided it.
He did ask me the other day if he could see them. Said he knows he has problems and he's working on correcting them one at a time but he just wants to talk to his girls. I didn't know what to say.
He is not their father but he has been their 'dad' for years. My older two kids are from my first marriage--he disappeared on and off when they were babies and they were 1 and 2 when he disappeared for good. Haven't talked to him for 7 years or so now. My third is from my second marriage. He's the one my older two call dad. He left three years ago. Calls every now and again (probably half a dozen times in the last two years). But as far as support, encouragement, hugs good night, so on and so forth it's been the xabf who provided it.
He did ask me the other day if he could see them. Said he knows he has problems and he's working on correcting them one at a time but he just wants to talk to his girls. I didn't know what to say.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 133
Oh my goodness, my heart goes out to you. This is what I look for everytime (and there's been many) that I am faced with the situation your faced with...I look for TRUE recovery. TRUE recovery (I am a RA) means action, not words. Is he involved with, actively involved with, the program of AA? Is he AROUND the program, or IN the program? Is he getting men's phone numbers and using them? Does he have a sponsor? Does he make coffee and help to clean up? You can tell a lot about people that are seeking recovery, and those that are serious do these things. It is so easy to buy into the "talking" part, but the true test is the "action" part. Often my XABF would go to meetings everyday, I would get my hopes up, and then the meetings fell off, and then he fell off (the wagon). I am four years sober, and I still go to meetings almost everyday. I need to. Some people don't, and thats just where I am at.
The trap that alcoholics set are like land-mines. We seperate from them, hoping the loss will motivate them into doing something to help themselves. I did not get sober for any one person. I got sober for myself, and myself alone. I wanted it (and still want it) more than anything else. My sobriety is more important than my children, my job, my school, my home, for without it, I will have none of these things. The landmines are this: we see some change, and we grab onto it with both hands. We get our hopes up, we start to dream again, we see a glimpse of the person we knew was in there all along. Then...we step on the landmine, because once we get roped back into the words, we are hooked again, and the bomb goes off. It is a never ending rollercoaster. It might be good for a few months, but is that enough for you? That's a question I ask myself each time I go back. Today, I don't want to go back (just today). I don't want to put myself through that anymore. Nothing has changed, and if nothing changes, nothing changes. I keep saying my new motto is "if you want something you've never had, you have to do something you've never done". I think of that everytime I feel sad. It's ME that has to do something different, not him. This is so hard. I feel for you. I had to look back over the last nine years at MY actions, not his, because his have pretty much stayed the same!! My sponsor told me that I am loving him to death, literally. That was pretty scary, but right on!!! Hang in there sweetie, you are worth so much!
The trap that alcoholics set are like land-mines. We seperate from them, hoping the loss will motivate them into doing something to help themselves. I did not get sober for any one person. I got sober for myself, and myself alone. I wanted it (and still want it) more than anything else. My sobriety is more important than my children, my job, my school, my home, for without it, I will have none of these things. The landmines are this: we see some change, and we grab onto it with both hands. We get our hopes up, we start to dream again, we see a glimpse of the person we knew was in there all along. Then...we step on the landmine, because once we get roped back into the words, we are hooked again, and the bomb goes off. It is a never ending rollercoaster. It might be good for a few months, but is that enough for you? That's a question I ask myself each time I go back. Today, I don't want to go back (just today). I don't want to put myself through that anymore. Nothing has changed, and if nothing changes, nothing changes. I keep saying my new motto is "if you want something you've never had, you have to do something you've never done". I think of that everytime I feel sad. It's ME that has to do something different, not him. This is so hard. I feel for you. I had to look back over the last nine years at MY actions, not his, because his have pretty much stayed the same!! My sponsor told me that I am loving him to death, literally. That was pretty scary, but right on!!! Hang in there sweetie, you are worth so much!
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
Originally Posted by kv816 
He did ask me the other day if he could see them. Said he knows he has problems and he's working on correcting them one at a time but he just wants to talk to his girls. I didn't know what to say.
Oh sure, there were poignant moments when he was in his right mind and took her fishing, sat down and colored with her. or gave her hugs.
But in the end that was all gone, and she had witnessed him beating on me consistently for years, spewing his venom, having psychotic episodes from being up for days on end while doing meth.
Guess what kind of men she gets involved with?
Only stepping forward
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Alabama, USA
Posts: 330
Originally Posted by harleyd101
Is he involved with, actively involved with, the program of AA? Is he AROUND the program, or IN the program? Is he getting men's phone numbers and using them? Does he have a sponsor? Does he make coffee and help to clean up?
The landmines are this: we see some change, and we grab onto it with both hands. We get our hopes up, we start to dream again, we see a glimpse of the person we knew was in there all along. Then...we step on the landmine, because once we get roped back into the words, we are hooked again, and the bomb goes off. It is a never ending rollercoaster. It might be good for a few months, but is that enough for you?
I guess it's just the whole kids thing that is getting to me. I keep thinking I could say no.....and leave him in despair about his family being gone and force him to realize I really was not kidding when I said enough is enough. But then I also want to say yes so they can get the love they miss from him and he can see what he left behind when he allowed his love of beer to be more important than our love for him. That sounds so codie but that's not what I'm intending.
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
It is possible that he wants to seek recovery and really start taking responsibility for his own adult life (sobriety, taking care of his health problems, paying his debts, thinking of others in a healthy way). If that is the case, which you and I want nothing greater than that for our XABFs, you HAVE TO STAY OUT OF IT.
Seriously now, if the only way something is going to heal is for you to stop picking at it, then by God stop picking at it!!!!
I have been feeling the same way as you since I split from my XABF at the end of July. First contact with him I find out he's gotten a better job, better pay, better health coverage, better apartment on and on. He's doing his own shopping. He's cut his hair and started paying attention to his appearance. He's reconnected with his family and is getting back with his estranged daughter. By the second and third contact, he's paying mutual bills we had left over from our life together and arranging his own insurance and setting up his own phone service. This last contact, I find out he's adopted a puppy and is really excited about being involved as a dog parent.
AAAAAHHHHHH!!!!! Why, why, why, why, why couldn't he have gotten his s**t together anytime in the last decade while we were together???? WTF??? How could he break the hearts of our pets who I have sole custody of by replacing them????
Once the initial shock and adrenaline wears off, I"m thinking, WOW! Is there a chance he will seek recovery and be the man I know he could always be?? Is there a chance our relationship could be the relationship I always wanted???? I go weak in the knees thinking of it for a moment.
And reality returns....
He could be the man he was always meant to be as a recovering alcoholic. I could be the woman I was always destined to be as a recovering codependent. Together, we will always be a science experiment on the verge of exploding. Is he, or am I, really able to put the kind of energy and effort it would take to carry on a healthy relationship together. Wouldn't it be better to let us find a healthy relationship somewhere else where the love and companionship are effortless and without the addiction.
You want him well, but you may have to accept that his health cannot be sustained if you are together. Wish him well and watch him heal and be happy and know in your heart that you had a small role in bringing his bottom to him and setting him on a healthy path. Walk away knowing you returned him to the world better than you found him just by letting him go.
From the heart,
Alice
Seriously now, if the only way something is going to heal is for you to stop picking at it, then by God stop picking at it!!!!
I have been feeling the same way as you since I split from my XABF at the end of July. First contact with him I find out he's gotten a better job, better pay, better health coverage, better apartment on and on. He's doing his own shopping. He's cut his hair and started paying attention to his appearance. He's reconnected with his family and is getting back with his estranged daughter. By the second and third contact, he's paying mutual bills we had left over from our life together and arranging his own insurance and setting up his own phone service. This last contact, I find out he's adopted a puppy and is really excited about being involved as a dog parent.
AAAAAHHHHHH!!!!! Why, why, why, why, why couldn't he have gotten his s**t together anytime in the last decade while we were together???? WTF??? How could he break the hearts of our pets who I have sole custody of by replacing them????
Once the initial shock and adrenaline wears off, I"m thinking, WOW! Is there a chance he will seek recovery and be the man I know he could always be?? Is there a chance our relationship could be the relationship I always wanted???? I go weak in the knees thinking of it for a moment.
And reality returns....
He could be the man he was always meant to be as a recovering alcoholic. I could be the woman I was always destined to be as a recovering codependent. Together, we will always be a science experiment on the verge of exploding. Is he, or am I, really able to put the kind of energy and effort it would take to carry on a healthy relationship together. Wouldn't it be better to let us find a healthy relationship somewhere else where the love and companionship are effortless and without the addiction.
You want him well, but you may have to accept that his health cannot be sustained if you are together. Wish him well and watch him heal and be happy and know in your heart that you had a small role in bringing his bottom to him and setting him on a healthy path. Walk away knowing you returned him to the world better than you found him just by letting him go.
From the heart,
Alice
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 133
KV, my heart truly hurts for you. It's so hard, so friggin hard. Everytime I think I'm taking a step towards getting better, sometimes I want to fall back bad. The kid thing, its gotta rip your heart out. Falling back is no longer the "easier, softer way". It's the way that knife gets shoved into the heart even harder than it was before, and not only do we go through it, our children do too.
I love the saying on your page about suffering. I need to read that everyday.
God bless, and big hugs.
I love the saying on your page about suffering. I need to read that everyday.
God bless, and big hugs.
Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Land of Cotton
Posts: 3,433
kv, I know it would be monumentally hard, but can you find the words to just be honest with your kids? Can you tell them what's going on and give them a mini-lesson in Recovery 101? There's got to be resources out there somewhere on how to talk to little ones about this disease. Anyone?
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
I am very uncomfortable with not giving people what they ask for, especially when they ask directly for something, such as him asking to see his kids. I am very uncomfortable not doing what people want me to do. I am very uncomfortable not giving an answer of "Yes" when someone they are talking to me one-on-one. But what I have learned is, it's OK to say nothing. It's OK to be silent and just listen; just let them talk. And it's OK just to say in response, "I don't know what to say, can I think about it for a while?"
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