As a parent what should be my next step?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Naples Maine
Posts: 1
As a parent what should be my next step?
My Son always acted like no one loved him! He is the youngest of 3. We did many things to make him feel just as important as everyone else. We took him to counseling and he seemed to do better. After high school he got a decent job and him and his brother got a place together. They did awesome for 18 months, they partied now and then but worked hard and paid their bills.
Then Zach met a girl, she got pregnant and everything changed. They did not get married but lived together had two kids, lost several jobs, evicted from at least 15 apartments in 3 years. Finally the state stepped in and both parents lost their parental rights!
Our son came to us and cried said he wanted to change, asked to move back home. He started going to aa had weekly supervised visits at the library. As he did well he got week end supervised visits at our home! Now this means 90 minute drive each way for me every friday and every sunday! I love him and the kids so for 2 years I do this, his job gives him more hours more money. He earns unsupervised visits! He gets his drivers license for the first time just before turning 26!!! The first thing he does is drive to see ex and started drinking! He has drove home drunk twice, once he hit a tree in our driveway and never knew until we told him the next morning!
Now he is back to supervised visits! He lost his job again!
Last week end we sent him to the store for milk with a $20 he came back with $9 ... milk is not $11 ... but milk and brandy are $11
I called him on it and he came back with an empty bottle and said he had dumped it! RIGHT!!!
Last night he came home and stashed the ex in our garage as I was going away for a day or two for a work conference and Hubby was going to come along!! She has stolen and pawned many of our things in the past and is not welcome at my home, until she has one year sobriety and living in her own rent not a shelter! I doubt either will ever happen!
I have given him until Sept 15th to move!
My question is do I maintain the supervised visits? The kids love him and never want to leave! They are 5 and 2. However I feel like I am just setting them up as our son has failed so many times!
I appreciate all opinions!!!
Ciao!
Penny
Then Zach met a girl, she got pregnant and everything changed. They did not get married but lived together had two kids, lost several jobs, evicted from at least 15 apartments in 3 years. Finally the state stepped in and both parents lost their parental rights!
Our son came to us and cried said he wanted to change, asked to move back home. He started going to aa had weekly supervised visits at the library. As he did well he got week end supervised visits at our home! Now this means 90 minute drive each way for me every friday and every sunday! I love him and the kids so for 2 years I do this, his job gives him more hours more money. He earns unsupervised visits! He gets his drivers license for the first time just before turning 26!!! The first thing he does is drive to see ex and started drinking! He has drove home drunk twice, once he hit a tree in our driveway and never knew until we told him the next morning!
Now he is back to supervised visits! He lost his job again!
Last week end we sent him to the store for milk with a $20 he came back with $9 ... milk is not $11 ... but milk and brandy are $11
I called him on it and he came back with an empty bottle and said he had dumped it! RIGHT!!!
Last night he came home and stashed the ex in our garage as I was going away for a day or two for a work conference and Hubby was going to come along!! She has stolen and pawned many of our things in the past and is not welcome at my home, until she has one year sobriety and living in her own rent not a shelter! I doubt either will ever happen!
I have given him until Sept 15th to move!
My question is do I maintain the supervised visits? The kids love him and never want to leave! They are 5 and 2. However I feel like I am just setting them up as our son has failed so many times!
I appreciate all opinions!!!
Ciao!
Penny
Being Silent so I can Hear
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,521
Wow, tough situation.
#1 - he's an adult, and so needs to deal with the repercussions of his decisions.
If you want to see the children, can you make separate arrangements for that, that don't involve your son?
He's playing you - he gets shelter, a free ride for HIS kids, etc. He'll keep playing you as long as you agree to the game. You can step away at any time.
#1 - he's an adult, and so needs to deal with the repercussions of his decisions.
If you want to see the children, can you make separate arrangements for that, that don't involve your son?
He's playing you - he gets shelter, a free ride for HIS kids, etc. He'll keep playing you as long as you agree to the game. You can step away at any time.
get it, give it, grow in it
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calif coast
Posts: 3,167
at this stage I would only do it if YOU want to -and you want to see your grandchildren.
Your son may only make changes when he loses everything. We have to be careful not to get in the way of this happening.
Maybe you can only supervise the visits if your son
is in rehab demonstrating that he is making the necessary changes to be a responsible daddy.
Your son may only make changes when he loses everything. We have to be careful not to get in the way of this happening.
Maybe you can only supervise the visits if your son
is in rehab demonstrating that he is making the necessary changes to be a responsible daddy.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,059
hi penny-
when i read your post, i thought why is she waiting until september 15th to throw him out? why the delay? he's crossed every boundary and it is clear to me that him and his woman are playing you. are there drugs involved also?
if i was you, i would throw him out today AND maintain the visitation option.
it is not ok that he brought his thieving woman to potentially steal your things from your house, as she has done in the past. i would kick him out for that alone. that is your home!
and stealing the milk money is not ok either. if he is stealing right under your nose, what is he doing while you are not there?
i would keep the visitation (i assume this is in your house?) with your grandchildren open to him and you also for the health of the children and also, so that your son has something to grab onto, a reason to get sober.
with my alcoholic, his young children are his life force and even though he continues to drink, without access to his children i really do feel he would loose his way. the few times he has pulled it together has been for the sake of his children, so that, for mine anyway, is probably the only thing that doesn't keep him from the futher depths of alcoholic hell.
ciao penny!
naive
when i read your post, i thought why is she waiting until september 15th to throw him out? why the delay? he's crossed every boundary and it is clear to me that him and his woman are playing you. are there drugs involved also?
if i was you, i would throw him out today AND maintain the visitation option.
it is not ok that he brought his thieving woman to potentially steal your things from your house, as she has done in the past. i would kick him out for that alone. that is your home!
and stealing the milk money is not ok either. if he is stealing right under your nose, what is he doing while you are not there?
i would keep the visitation (i assume this is in your house?) with your grandchildren open to him and you also for the health of the children and also, so that your son has something to grab onto, a reason to get sober.
with my alcoholic, his young children are his life force and even though he continues to drink, without access to his children i really do feel he would loose his way. the few times he has pulled it together has been for the sake of his children, so that, for mine anyway, is probably the only thing that doesn't keep him from the futher depths of alcoholic hell.
ciao penny!
naive
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 129
Penny,
After reading your story, it reminds me in many ways of my AS and our Mom. My little sister is now 42 years old, has been living with Mom for about 10-11 years now, right after her first stint in rehab after intervention that her then boss initiated. She has had her brief periods of sobriety in these periods, but for the most part, has been drinking herself slowly to death all this time. She also played the "pity card" in that she wasn't loved as much as me, that I got everything, etc. If anything, she was very high maintenance as my Mom will attest to and a very spoiled child, who would have tantrums at the drop of a hat when she didn't get her way. She still has tantrums, when she is called out on carpet for being drunk again, having to lock herself in room because we are all lying and making this up.
Our Mom, being a Mom, doesn't want to believe the worst in her child, though she has been going to Al-Anon all these years, she believes she can help her get through this. My wife keeps telling me that is Mom being a Mom. Although I've told Mom on many occasions to kick her out so she can hit her rock bottom (tough love) and finally get help on her own, it has fallen on deaf ears. Mom lives her life fully, enjoying retirement and such, but she also suffers much heartache, when sister falls off wagon after a brief sober period. Also, sis is a secret drinker, so she'll hole up in her room for 3-4 days claiming she has flu or something along those lines, so she can hide from Mom.
I think my Mom has finally realized she needs to kick her out. After sister got out of hospital last week (second stint this year, basically the vodka has burned her esophagus out so it bleeds when she drinks and she is diabetic from damaging liver), she resumed drinking pretty much after she got out. Fired from her job, she is now holed up in her room; she probably stashed a bunch of cash from her job in these cases (waitressing), though she was giving Mom her daily take of tips.
To make a long story short, get tough!!! As much as you love your son and grandchildren, he needs to hit rock bottom. Stick to your Sept 15th deadline, don't give in! My Mom has threatened too many times and never follows through and sister just keeps killing herself with booze. Don't do this to your son. As others have suggested, you get your grandchildren and spend time with them and allow your son to come visit them then, this should be incentive for him to get sober. If anything, you and your husband need to shower your grandchildren with the love they need until their Dad can provide them with a stable, sober, environment. It can be done, I know many alcoholics who have remained sober and live their life to the fullest, albeit one day at a time!
Remember, alcoholics/addicts are great liars and manipulators. They will do whatever it takes to keep getting drunk/high, it is their survival instinct kicking in. I found that their promises don't hold water until they have maintained a long period of sobriety and get through the steps. My brother-in-law (15 years sober now) stole from us, didn't finish construction jobs we hired him for (we'd come home to find him passed out on the floor), and it took about a year or more of his sobriety before we could trust him. It was also him reaching step 5 and making amends that also helped us with forgiveness, as well as him working all 12 steps. I know it can be done, but it takes tough love to get their, as he attested to (9th DUI and jail time with no family member bailing him out this time, then going to 30 day IP rehab)
My prayers and thoughts are with you and your family and I hope your son finds the love of God and overcomes his addiction. Also, embrace Al-Anon meetings, they are of great suport as this site is.
After reading your story, it reminds me in many ways of my AS and our Mom. My little sister is now 42 years old, has been living with Mom for about 10-11 years now, right after her first stint in rehab after intervention that her then boss initiated. She has had her brief periods of sobriety in these periods, but for the most part, has been drinking herself slowly to death all this time. She also played the "pity card" in that she wasn't loved as much as me, that I got everything, etc. If anything, she was very high maintenance as my Mom will attest to and a very spoiled child, who would have tantrums at the drop of a hat when she didn't get her way. She still has tantrums, when she is called out on carpet for being drunk again, having to lock herself in room because we are all lying and making this up.
Our Mom, being a Mom, doesn't want to believe the worst in her child, though she has been going to Al-Anon all these years, she believes she can help her get through this. My wife keeps telling me that is Mom being a Mom. Although I've told Mom on many occasions to kick her out so she can hit her rock bottom (tough love) and finally get help on her own, it has fallen on deaf ears. Mom lives her life fully, enjoying retirement and such, but she also suffers much heartache, when sister falls off wagon after a brief sober period. Also, sis is a secret drinker, so she'll hole up in her room for 3-4 days claiming she has flu or something along those lines, so she can hide from Mom.
I think my Mom has finally realized she needs to kick her out. After sister got out of hospital last week (second stint this year, basically the vodka has burned her esophagus out so it bleeds when she drinks and she is diabetic from damaging liver), she resumed drinking pretty much after she got out. Fired from her job, she is now holed up in her room; she probably stashed a bunch of cash from her job in these cases (waitressing), though she was giving Mom her daily take of tips.
To make a long story short, get tough!!! As much as you love your son and grandchildren, he needs to hit rock bottom. Stick to your Sept 15th deadline, don't give in! My Mom has threatened too many times and never follows through and sister just keeps killing herself with booze. Don't do this to your son. As others have suggested, you get your grandchildren and spend time with them and allow your son to come visit them then, this should be incentive for him to get sober. If anything, you and your husband need to shower your grandchildren with the love they need until their Dad can provide them with a stable, sober, environment. It can be done, I know many alcoholics who have remained sober and live their life to the fullest, albeit one day at a time!
Remember, alcoholics/addicts are great liars and manipulators. They will do whatever it takes to keep getting drunk/high, it is their survival instinct kicking in. I found that their promises don't hold water until they have maintained a long period of sobriety and get through the steps. My brother-in-law (15 years sober now) stole from us, didn't finish construction jobs we hired him for (we'd come home to find him passed out on the floor), and it took about a year or more of his sobriety before we could trust him. It was also him reaching step 5 and making amends that also helped us with forgiveness, as well as him working all 12 steps. I know it can be done, but it takes tough love to get their, as he attested to (9th DUI and jail time with no family member bailing him out this time, then going to 30 day IP rehab)
My prayers and thoughts are with you and your family and I hope your son finds the love of God and overcomes his addiction. Also, embrace Al-Anon meetings, they are of great suport as this site is.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: FL
Posts: 14,246
Hi Penny, welcome to SR.
Here's one thing I learned in Al-Anon about the nature of addiction/alcoholism that has helped me so much as a mom:
The 3 C's
I didn't cause it.
I can't cure it.
I can't control it.
It was only after I left my son to rely totally on himself that he finally got into a situation where he finally had 'enough' of his lifestyle and bad choices. Once it became painful enough- he decided to make an all-out effort to get and stay clean.
The last time he used was three years ago.
Whether he found recovery or not... I had finally determined that my _own_ choices in relation to him needed to change. Once I was able to let go and allow _him_ to live his own life, I found a sense of peace and relief knowing that it was never up to me in the first place to 'help' him.
I simply wont allow the kinds of things that I used to deal with when he was active and in my home. It wasn't an easy thing to do when we told our son that he was not welcome to stay in our home- not even for one night. The alternative would have been to continue to look the other way and offer him chance after chance, after chance to do the right thing. I never want to live like that again.
You might want to take a peek at the sticky threads in this forum and in the Friends & Family of Substance Abusers forum too- there's lots of good stuff there. You don't ever have to face this alone- there are many here who understand and care.
Here's one thing I learned in Al-Anon about the nature of addiction/alcoholism that has helped me so much as a mom:
The 3 C's
I didn't cause it.
I can't cure it.
I can't control it.
It was only after I left my son to rely totally on himself that he finally got into a situation where he finally had 'enough' of his lifestyle and bad choices. Once it became painful enough- he decided to make an all-out effort to get and stay clean.
The last time he used was three years ago.
Whether he found recovery or not... I had finally determined that my _own_ choices in relation to him needed to change. Once I was able to let go and allow _him_ to live his own life, I found a sense of peace and relief knowing that it was never up to me in the first place to 'help' him.
I simply wont allow the kinds of things that I used to deal with when he was active and in my home. It wasn't an easy thing to do when we told our son that he was not welcome to stay in our home- not even for one night. The alternative would have been to continue to look the other way and offer him chance after chance, after chance to do the right thing. I never want to live like that again.
You might want to take a peek at the sticky threads in this forum and in the Friends & Family of Substance Abusers forum too- there's lots of good stuff there. You don't ever have to face this alone- there are many here who understand and care.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 129
cmc,
I just printed out your response and am giving it to my Mom today. You couldn't have said it any better on what you needed to do for not just your son, but for YOU!
I just printed out your response and am giving it to my Mom today. You couldn't have said it any better on what you needed to do for not just your son, but for YOU!
Originally Posted by cmc 
Hi Penny, welcome to SR.
Here's one thing I learned in Al-Anon about the nature of addiction/alcoholism that has helped me so much as a mom:
The 3 C's
I didn't cause it.
I can't cure it.
I can't control it.
It was only after I left my son to rely totally on himself that he finally got into a situation where he finally had 'enough' of his lifestyle and bad choices. Once it became painful enough- he decided to make an all-out effort to get and stay clean.
The last time he used was three years ago.
Whether he found recovery or not... I had finally determined that my _own_ choices in relation to him needed to change. Once I was able to let go and allow _him_ to live his own life, I found a sense of peace and relief knowing that it was never up to me in the first place to 'help' him.
I simply wont allow the kinds of things that I used to deal with when he was active and in my home. It wasn't an easy thing to do when we told our son that he was not welcome to stay in our home- not even for one night. The alternative would have been to continue to look the other way and offer him chance after chance, after chance to do the right thing. I never want to live like that again.
You might want to take a peek at the sticky threads in this forum and in the Friends & Family of Substance Abusers forum too- there's lots of good stuff there. You don't ever have to face this alone- there are many here who understand and care.
Here's one thing I learned in Al-Anon about the nature of addiction/alcoholism that has helped me so much as a mom:
The 3 C's
I didn't cause it.
I can't cure it.
I can't control it.
It was only after I left my son to rely totally on himself that he finally got into a situation where he finally had 'enough' of his lifestyle and bad choices. Once it became painful enough- he decided to make an all-out effort to get and stay clean.
The last time he used was three years ago.
Whether he found recovery or not... I had finally determined that my _own_ choices in relation to him needed to change. Once I was able to let go and allow _him_ to live his own life, I found a sense of peace and relief knowing that it was never up to me in the first place to 'help' him.
I simply wont allow the kinds of things that I used to deal with when he was active and in my home. It wasn't an easy thing to do when we told our son that he was not welcome to stay in our home- not even for one night. The alternative would have been to continue to look the other way and offer him chance after chance, after chance to do the right thing. I never want to live like that again.
You might want to take a peek at the sticky threads in this forum and in the Friends & Family of Substance Abusers forum too- there's lots of good stuff there. You don't ever have to face this alone- there are many here who understand and care.
1 Corinthians 13:1-13 love
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IL
Posts: 435
I grew up telling my mom that she would help my sister( who is 14 years older then me) if she wouldn't save her from her consequences. She is an 'adult' child. When that pattern continued I stopped suggesting that to my mom and let her suffer the consequences. The thing is others suffer down the line and not by any choice of there own. Besides all that happened before this,( like visit to court, jail, hospitals, and having to live with her) my state's child care and family services ended up bringing my niece to my home as I am now an adult sister. Now I love my niece but I already had 3 kids of my own and number 4 on the way at the age of 23 and my niece had to go through being taken from her mother. I agreed to take my niece for my 'niece', not for my sister. And I was all over the case worker who was buying into my sister's manipulation and wanted to give her visits at my house. When she told me she was coming up 'clean.' I tried to tell her,( then I asked her to please :-)" 'test the pee', it won't be pee, I'm telling you she is still getting high. She has been doing this a long time." It ended up being 'tea.'
One point of sharing this story is that my sister turned on me , after i had taken in her child, because i was telling the case worker the truth. ( don't be surprised if he turns on you.)The case worker had fell for my sister's manipulation that I had 'issues' about her being a drug addict.( At the time i was like "Daaa caseworker, who's home did she ask you to drop her child off at? Guess who she trust? Who is the herion addicted you just took a kid away from?) I guess that shows how good anyone can be manipulated by a good con. After this the case worker and i had a better relationship.:-)
The reason my mom credits "saving " my sister all the time: Because the family councilor told her," Stop saving here." So my mom did what she was told and when my sister called for help she said "no." Less then 24 hours later my sister jumped off a 5 story building, as high as a kite and slit wrists. She survived. She was 18 and now is 55. She has lead a wonderful, productive, exempliery life during some of the years from 18 to 55. She has also went back to drugs and jail repeatedly. The point of sharing this story: obviously someone greater then my mom is in control, however, she loved her daughter and wanted to "make it as easy as possible for her to get help." So she didn't leave it in God's hands and took over.
So basically everyone in our family had to learn the hard way and suffer more. Hey nothing wrong with suffering!!!!!! We learn a lot , and become more understanding to others. But not everyone else has to suffer more instead of letting the guilty party suffer their own consequences.
I remember as a teenager telling my mom," You are loving her to death."
In my opinion, maintaining supervised visit when he is actively using would be saving him or not allowing him to see just how bad this all really is. Even if he enters into recovery in my opinion you should let him do all the work to get supervised visit "somewhere."
I hope you maintain your relationship with your grandkids and you are able to enjoy 'just' being grandma and not supervisior. There is enough to 'just' being Grandma I would think.:-)
( God, I am really starting to wish I had made myself super anonymous when I joined this thing.)
Now I am divorcing an AH, but his progression took a lot longer. Your son sounds more like my sister, fast and furious.
love tammy
One point of sharing this story is that my sister turned on me , after i had taken in her child, because i was telling the case worker the truth. ( don't be surprised if he turns on you.)The case worker had fell for my sister's manipulation that I had 'issues' about her being a drug addict.( At the time i was like "Daaa caseworker, who's home did she ask you to drop her child off at? Guess who she trust? Who is the herion addicted you just took a kid away from?) I guess that shows how good anyone can be manipulated by a good con. After this the case worker and i had a better relationship.:-)
The reason my mom credits "saving " my sister all the time: Because the family councilor told her," Stop saving here." So my mom did what she was told and when my sister called for help she said "no." Less then 24 hours later my sister jumped off a 5 story building, as high as a kite and slit wrists. She survived. She was 18 and now is 55. She has lead a wonderful, productive, exempliery life during some of the years from 18 to 55. She has also went back to drugs and jail repeatedly. The point of sharing this story: obviously someone greater then my mom is in control, however, she loved her daughter and wanted to "make it as easy as possible for her to get help." So she didn't leave it in God's hands and took over.
So basically everyone in our family had to learn the hard way and suffer more. Hey nothing wrong with suffering!!!!!! We learn a lot , and become more understanding to others. But not everyone else has to suffer more instead of letting the guilty party suffer their own consequences.
I remember as a teenager telling my mom," You are loving her to death."
In my opinion, maintaining supervised visit when he is actively using would be saving him or not allowing him to see just how bad this all really is. Even if he enters into recovery in my opinion you should let him do all the work to get supervised visit "somewhere."
I hope you maintain your relationship with your grandkids and you are able to enjoy 'just' being grandma and not supervisior. There is enough to 'just' being Grandma I would think.:-)
( God, I am really starting to wish I had made myself super anonymous when I joined this thing.)
Now I am divorcing an AH, but his progression took a lot longer. Your son sounds more like my sister, fast and furious.
love tammy
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
Now that anvilhead puts it this way ...
It sucks, but I agree in order for an addict to reach bottom (if he will ever reach it) is to keep losing friends, family... sad but true.
It may be hard but she is right, if he can no longer see the kids, its because of his choices... it was really low what his gf did, and he let her do it, he showed no respect towards you, your home or your favors.
If there is a way you can see the kids without him I would go for it
stay strong.
It sucks, but I agree in order for an addict to reach bottom (if he will ever reach it) is to keep losing friends, family... sad but true.
It may be hard but she is right, if he can no longer see the kids, its because of his choices... it was really low what his gf did, and he let her do it, he showed no respect towards you, your home or your favors.
If there is a way you can see the kids without him I would go for it
stay strong.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Merced, CA
Posts: 77
Penny: You've had a lot of good counsel here. I can only add that I agree with the tough love approach. Believe me, I have been there as a parent, and it rips your heart out, but it has to be done if we are to really help our children grow up and become responsible citizens.
Electa
Electa
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