brundle

In my extended family we don't "talk" about "unpleasant" things. Like me wanting to leave my husband or that he's a drunk or that my 17 yr old son is in an abusive relationship or my 22yr old daughter is dating 45 yr old man.

In my home I don't talk about "unpleasant" things because my AH goes kind of crazy with any real truth. So my life is about looking beautiful and strapping on a constant smile along with never having "tone" to my voice every where I go. Well except here and the therapists office. (I think it's made me a bit crazy! No for real.)

So the other day I'm having coffee with my mother, daughter and sister when my daughter tells us all that she arrived home at 3am from work (she works in a hospital) and noticed my AH in his car. She tells us of how it is freezing outside and as she walks up the walkway she notices him hunched over. Feeling he must have had a heart attack she ran to the car to help him only to figure out that he was passed out drunk (and maybe stoned too) in the car.

My mother quickly praises her anyway, at least he didn't freeze. My sister wanted to know if I confronted him. (This has happened many times before, him passing out; but she usually doesn't work nights) I calmly turned to her and told her to NEVER go to the car again, that this happens often and now that she is working nights she is not to get involved with him. She of course wanted to know about him freezing in the car like that. I said it was unlikely. He does it all the time and if he does I'll call the funeral home in the morning. He's not a baby and can get himself to the house. Well at a table of codies did I get an ear full. I'm branded the biggest witch in the family.

It's nuts they act like my leaving him is evil but this kind of thing is like "oh poor him; your so mean." OMG!!! At least I come by co-dependence honestly. After a good laugh... I think I'll continue to stick to their required "pleasant" conversation!!! LOL!:wtf2

ItsmeAlice

I so get where you are coming from!

There are just some people that you can't get past talking about the weather with. Their heads will melt.

My extended family is the same way. My mother is a whole 'nother ball of wax, but my father...whoa...he's the same as your group only I don't get any comment at all just a "tisk tisk tisk" thru his teeth then he walks away. As though what I'm going through is a cake walk and I'm just being the black sheep of the family on purpose.

Have you ever watched old episodes of Seinfeld? The character George once complained that he had to make his weekly phone call to his folks and couldn't go out to the movies or whereever. He said it was a whole procedure. He had to make a list of things to talk about..some benign small talk, a few "you were right about"s.

I'm thinkin' this might be a technique for us. A list of discussion starters specially designed to steer conversation in a "rainbow and lemondrops" direction. When you get to the end of your list. Say, "Well that's it for me, I'm out of material", excuse yourself, and leave.

brundle

LOL!! That's a great idea! My entire family and my AH is like your dad. I guess I should do daily lists. Maybe we should do it together and sell it as a book for people who can't talk to family members!

mellowchick

Its so sad, isn't it? I was the 'bad person' when it came to my exah's family. Even after them seeing him so drunk he was crosseyed and after he wrapped his car around two trees and had to be air lifted to a trauma center, they still couldn't see that he had a problem. I've come to realize in my own recovery and working my program that they are just as sick as he is.

Sorry, don't want to seem like I'm hijacking your thread here. Just know you aren't alone, many people are hush hush and don't ever take their blinders off. Hugs to you!

brundle

hijack away...lol... I was (like you are) pointing out how blind people can be or maybe want to be... kind of like your in-laws... It just makes you shake your head at how twisted it all becomes...Even when it should be easy to see!

mellowchick

If I had a penny for everytime I wanted to 'slap some common sense' into them, I'd be so wealthy! Oddly enough when my exah would get smashed around his family, it would come up in conversation the next day and he would appologize. His familys response? "Oh no, you were the cutest thing ever and just so funny." It was mind blowing to say the least.

Barbara52

Hmm, I don't hold onto dishonest relationships. Sure its easier to ignore the elephant in the room but it is wiser?

I have cut relationships with family when they were toxic. I have ended friendships when they led down paths that no longer fit my idea of friendship. I have to live with myself and within my standards. I could not cotinue to ignore the elephant in the room simply to avoid uncomfortable conversations.

Now that doesn't mean I think I can change anyone such as you've described your family members. They are free to continue being the way they see as best for them. But part of my emerging better health is expressing my "self," my needs and my opinion when necessary. I would let them know what behavior I saw as enabling and why. Then they are free to do as they wish with that info. They are not free to tell me I am awful. If that is the route the conversation goes, I leave. Sooner or later people, even family, can be trained (so to speak) to treat me with the respect I deserve.

sillysquirrel

My AH's parents are the same way. When AH went on a so-called fishing trip and ended up barhopping and not even fishing, he was spotted passed out in his truck with his face smeared against the window by the front door of the bar. He didn't even know he was at this bar let alone how he got home. AH's mother thought nothing of his actions but was appalled at the fact that a friend told me about his activities of the evening. "How dare she tell you something that will obviously be upsetting and harmful to your marriage?" she said. They prefer to just ignore the problem and get angry at anyone who talks about it. Like, it doesn't exist if you don't acknowledge it.

Sorry, I am hijacking too.

sillysquirrel

I really respect your outlook. I am trying to get to that point. I am having a hard time with the fine line between taking care of myself and just being selfish.

For the longest time, I have put on a brave face and gone to many family get-togethers on my AH's side of the family. They all like to drink, except my MIL, who is the ultimate enabler. These birthdays, reunions, anniversaries, weddings, funerals, holidays, etc. were absolute torture for me. And then, as evening would approach, I would get sent home with 4 kids and AH would stay with his brother and get smashed. This always infuriated me as I felt these were family functions and just don't appreciate that it is not a very family friendly atmosphere. I have now decided that I will not attend these functions anymore. It is not a requirement and if I feel uncomfortable at them, I should not have to go, nor should my children be exposed to this. I have been called "unsociable" many times, but, oh well.

Anyway, how do you look out for yourself without being selfish?

Wow, I really got off topic here. I am sorry....

brundle

mellowchick, Oh no not cute!!! That's so awful!

Barbara52, Well with these people dishonest is how it's played. I am saving (slowly) to leave AH so I hope I can quit acting there. As far as my family. Well I see them rarely (I'm not sure yet, that I want to cut contact completely with them) and their outburst didn't stop me from saying what I felt I needed to. Once I would have just gone along with my mother. "Oh yes imagine that poor dear freezing in the car! how dreadful." Now they know I think a grown man can walk to his bed and I don't intend to act as if his drinking is just "ok". Then can think whatever they want. I think they are learning to treat me better. Normally my mother would have called later and given me "bible verses" on my wrong attitude. Now she wouldn't dare because she knows I wouldn't stand for it. She knows that I'm not up for control and manipulation to be the good little house wife anymore.

Barbara52

I had trouble too at first. But learning that "No" is a complete sentence and requires no follow up words helps. Accepting that others' opinons don't have to mean a thing to me helps. Learnign the difference between self care and selfish helps a whole lot.

Self care for me means doing because I need to meet some need in myself or means not doing because doing that "thing" would violate my self in some way.

Selfish means doing or not doing it without consideration of my needs or the needs of others. Yes, not considering my own needs can be selfish in a warped way because its easier to do some "thing" rather than deal with the difficult things in life.

Another thing I had to learn was the difference between "selfish" and "selfless."

Good for you. And the kids too!

brundle

Silly:
I may not want to cut all contact with my family off; but when it comes to drinking or using of any kind that is another ball-game!

I'm going to use my in-laws as an example here because they do nothing without getting smashed. Kind of like your family get-togethers. Most of them even will do pot! Even at a funeral!!! They live two hours away. At this point I just send my husband. When I use to think our marriage was going to work I would ask him not to go. I can't control him. He's going to go. So I let him and oh well. I don't like it. But really he's not my problem. Let them talk. They are living a life style I don't want to be involved with anyway. It's more important to keep my kids away from that and me away from them. At this point I don't think it's selfish as much as self preservation. Hope that helps a bit..

Barbara52; Is just too good....

mellowchick

Its heartbreaking to know and see how this disease effects its victims. It comes in many different ways and effects everyone young and old. Brundle, I'm saying some extra prayers for you so that you may break away from this sooner than later. Leaving my exah was the best thing I ever did and I have zero regrets about it.

sillysquirrel

I may not want to cut all contact with my family off; but when it comes to drinking or using of any kind that is another ball-game!

I have not completely cut off visits with my inlaws. My MIL and FIL are wonderful people and great with the kids. I talk to them regularly and the kids visit regularly. They are very loving and in the absence of their sons (AH and ABIL) things are quite normal. My FIL drinks his share but in a very discreet, subtle way. I do go to some family functions, but at my choosing. For example, Thanksgiving was at my parent's home, so I took the kids with me and AH went to his parents and got smashed. The kids and I stopped by for a quick visit on our way home that evening. I didn't like what I saw, so I gathered the kiddos and left. Christmas, we drove separate to the inlaws and I stayed for quite awhile, but when I saw things turning south, I gathered up the kids left. And they know why I leave. Enough said. What is normal for them, is not normal for me. And, I am working on making sure it is not normal for my kids.

brundle

Silly: I hear ya. I can't say much for my in-laws, they are kind of a mess. But I have to say my mother and father-in-law are no longer living. It's my husband's brother's and sister's.

mellowchick: Thanks so much!

freya

brundle: I find it kind of interesting that you choose to state this in the passive tense (i.e. that's "how it's played" with these people, instead of that's "how I play it with these people") -- like that's just how it is and you have no choice. For me, I know I've found that whenever I feel trapped and like I have no choice, what's usually going on with me is that I am relying too much on my own power and my own understanding and I am failing to avail myself of the wisdom and power of my HP, who always, without exception, has been able to lead me to choices and power that I was totally cut-off from when I was not trusting in Him/Her/It.

It is most certainly true that there are lots and lots of situations and lots and lots of people in this world who choose to "play" that way.

That doesn't mean that I have to choose to play with them.

And

That doesn't mean that, when I do choose to play with them, I have to choose to play by their rules.

I am responsible for my own honesty and my own integrity, not for other people's. And the fact that other people -- no matter who they are in terms of public or personal power or in terms of how they're related to me -- choose (either intentionally or out of ignorance or habit) not to exercise honesty and integrity does not in any way negate or even diminish my responsibility for my own....

...and I've always felt this pretty strongly, but since I've been in program I've gotten increasingly more aware and unwilling to "play this way" in any situation, on any level because it is just soooooooo very clear to me how my doing so weakens my own recovery and supports the sick dysfunction that I am more and more committed to doing everything in my power to unmask and disempower.

A few years ago, my sister's partner's dad died. This man was a mean, violent alcoholic who had abused all of his daughters emotionally, physically and sexually, insofar as he as able, right up to the day he died. Now they live on the far coast, so no one in my home town had ever met him or actually had to deal with him, but we all knew about him and his behavior and we most certainly knew what my sister's partner has struggled with because of him. Well, he dies and the next thing I know, my mom -- at my sisters request -- is running around trying to collect donations to be given to his church in honor of his memory.

And I was like:"EXCUSE ME??????????? I mean, really, on what planet does this make sense?...and No, thank you, I'm really not interested and I really can't believe you're doing this, Mom!"

Now, I do totally get that this was about recognizing my sister's partner and her feelings, not really about honoring her father, but, OK then, let's recognize my sister's partner and not "cover it up" by pretending we're honoring someone who, as far as we know, made it a point never to do anything honorable.

So, eventually, what I did (because it really wasn't my intention to be a b*tch but it was also definitely not my intention to collude in this absurdist cover-up of dysfunction either) was send a donation to women's shelter near where my sister lives and a note saying that I had made the donation on behalf of my sister's partner in her time of loss.

Yeah, I do have a choice about when, where, and how I play -- and by whose rules....and I personally choose to play only if I can find a way to do so that keeps my integrity intact.

freya

brundle

Thanks. I've read your post a bunch of times. I've never really thought of it that way.