ToughChoices

I've had minimal communication with STBXAH for the past week - I've certainly been civil and kind, but I haven't been affectionate.

I think that my emotional and physical distance is beginning to unnerve him a bit. Yesterday, he told me, in all seriousness, that he wanted us to have another baby. Soon.

When I did not respond with enthusiasm to this plan (we are not living together, he is actively drinking, and he cannot care for our 4 year-old son on a regular basis) he accused me of being selfish and lying to him about the kind of family that I wanted (I've always envisioned having 2 children).

He was irate.

And I saw him as this raging ball of unhappiness. Of neediness and manipulation. And I wanted to say, "I will never have another child with you - I don't want to be married to you."

But I didn't.
Why not?????

I mean, there are some legitimate legal issues that I am in the process of resolving. There are school matters that need to be tended to. I might as well wait to tell him I've filed until I have my ducks in a row, until I KNOW that custody of my son is secure and my campus transfer is approved.

Somehow these sound a bit like excuses to me. I guess maybe I'm using them as excuses. I have made the decision to divorce, but telling him is this terrifying challenge. I am not ready to tell him. Does that mean I'm not ready to divorce?

I hate that I am so afraid - of hurting him, of him hurting himself, of a legal battle. I think I'm also a little afraid that my decision will be met with relief on his part. That would be painful for me.

Lots of fear on my part. I've started seeing a counselor again. I'm hoping that talking through that fear will help me get to the heart of it. If I can address my own insecurities I think I'll be more ready to move forward in the life that I want for myself.

How have others overcome fear?

MissFixit

I can't really help you with this, but it sounds like you don't want to hurt his feelings or have a confrontation. I honestly don't know how you tell someone you want a divorce, but from a legal and strategic standpoint, I would get yourself together legally, financially, logistically and school wise. You don't know how he will react and it seems to me that you need to protect yourself and your son, which means protecting yourself in these ways.

ToughChoices

I hate confrontation.
I like to argue and discuss, but I HATE angry words.
And things have gotten angry before.

I appreciate your comment, MissFixit. It helps me think about what I can do to keep the confrontation aspect of it to a minimum. I certainly can't rely upon him to respond agreeably, but I can make a plan (tell him then drive directly to visit my family, communicate via lawyer and email for a period of time, etc....) to minimize my contact with his anger.

Thanks!
-TC

ItsmeAlice

I have said some perfectly simple remarks regarding mundane things (the weather, our need for toilet paper) and had an explosion occur right in my face from my ABF.

Ask me if I had a talk with him about my decision to leave him when I can make it happen, and I will say Uh H*** no. How can I know what I will get. It could be any emotional at all from him. The only thing I know for sure is that it will be BIG and directed at ME.

I find I can overcome fear with knowledge. The more I know of a subject, the more I understand what I am about to embark into, I am more prepared and far more brave. Fear is good. It keeps us a live. I think being fearless is a reckless way to be. I prefer to be brave. To move forward with the fear close behind keeping me on my toes.

I wish you bravery.

Alice

Ago

It sounds as if you have your answers, now it's just implementing them.

I know how tough that can be.

That's when anger has actually been my friend, all instincts are god given, therefore good, it's when instincts are out of balance that we get "not well".

Anger is just misplaced fear, and it has saved my bacon a few times.

I actually knew I was "healing" and getting better when situations I used to tolerate started making me deeply, deeply angry....like scary angry.

I would love to give you this great advice and sound like Mike and Givelove, but the truth of the matter is I left when I just got so overwhelmed I couldn't live like that any more. Like they say, when the pain of staying got greater then the pain of leaving, I left, and was pretty darned angry when I did so.

I would say about 99% of the email I sent and the last phone conversation I had with her I was gentle, but it was also VERY hardnosed.

Once again, I would love to sound all granoley, healthy and lovey dovey, but the truth is I left when I got too angry, hurt, confused, etc. to stay any more.

I have to say, I'm not a woman, but him asking to have a baby when I had one foot out of the door may have made me that angry, like, what, are you F'ing stupid? You can't keep this relationship working, you can't or won't quit drinking, you can't care for the child you already have and you want to have another? You like Control much? Are you F'ing wacked?

Anyhow, you are handling this situation with probably more dignity then I would, but I'd be done. I'd be gone.

((((( TC )))))

TakingCharge999

How have others overcome fear?

Doing it.
Fear is gone.

((ToughChoices))

Lucy06

I am struggling with the exact same thing at the moment. I can't put the finger on what it is that I am scared of and I can't talk to him about divorce either. At this stage, I am in the wait and see mode. In any case, I am far from being ready to date anyone and I don't even see what positive change divorce will bring so I have more or less decided to leave this whole issue to my HP, hoping that when I am ready for it, I'll know it.
However, I am really not sure this is a good thing to do because I know that this is based on fear. Perhaps in my case, this is a fear of being truly alone so far away from my family. He is my only "family" in this country. But as a friend of mine pointed out, his selfish behavior makes me alone anyway...
And yeah, there is also the fear that I will not psychologically be able to cope with yet another crisis, anger, and everything that follows.... Not ready yet for all this. So in a nutshell TC, I am exactely where you are at right now. Being civil and kind but not affectionate and avoiding to talk about the future....
Sorry I don't have any words of wisdom.

prodigal

Anger frequently hides fear. It is also a great control mechanism when the screamer has the screamee frightened and backed into a corner.

Bravery (or having the guts to follow through on one's convictions) is not done with lack of fear; it is done in spite of one's fear.

timetogo

I, too am struggling with this TC. For me, I was afraid to say it out loud because it would then be true. It is the last thing that I wanted for my life or that of my childrents and I am terrified I won't be able to make it financially. All the doom and gloom of the economic crisis and uncertainty isn't helping either.

When I really looked at why I was afraid to tell him, part of it was that he would be irate and begin doing (more) irrational things (withholding money, drinking more, getting into trouble with the law, etc etc). I was still trying to control what he does and the outcome of that (and am still to a point).

But like you, my biggest fear was that he would agree. And he did. He is really playing the "I don't care" card right now and it does hurt. But I still try to remember that it hurts to live like this too -- and nothing has changed.

You have to tell him in your own time. When the time was right for me, I just knew. Do whatever you need to to protect your interests and that of your child.

freeflower

Hey TC I too am feeling the same thing right now. 99% of the time, I know I will desolve my marrage. The other 1% I fantasize about him turning into a knight in shining armor and rescuing me. I think our minds play tricks on us. I have been gone now 9 months and he hasn't changed a bit. I on the other hand have studied and prayed and cryed and wrote a journal. I am afraid of hurting him which is ironic since he can't see the pain he's caused me and the kids. Sounds crazy since I left and have had barely any contact with him. Just last night the heavy blanket of lonliness fell on me. I went to bed crying and woke up sad. I don't want to be alone. But I can't settle either. I guess I am so hurt that he can't put me first and love me the most. I think we all want to be loved and cherished.
He has no clue about my inner thoughts. I quit talking about this stuff 3 years ago. I should tell him how much I hurt and then tell him i'm filing...now, not in may.
We have to remember the clock is ticking.... every day goes by that we can't get back. We need to let go and start living. If they want us in their lives, they can fight for us. Get sober, make us proud. If not, we need to know we are going to be ok and just start living. There, maybe I talked myself into to doing something.....................((TC)).

coyote21

If it were me I would do the driving first, then the telling.

Here's some stuff I've learned about fear, after the fact of course.

Towards the end all I was really afraid of was waking up under a different roof than my then 4 yo daughter. To that end I remember consulting with a lawyer, and him telling me unless my alcoholic wife had an alcohol related arrest record I could kiss custody good bye, what with me being a man and all.

Aw had a lot of medical alcohol-type stuff but no legal stuff. I was at work, driving my truck, 3 hours from home and I said please God, (still didn't believe) don't let me have changed all those diapers, and done all of those middle of the night feedings just to lose her (DD) now.

Thirty minutes later my cell rang and it was our home town police telling my they had picked up my wife out of a neighbors yard and she was "unresponsive". I thought she was dead, but the officer apologized and said no, that she was unconscious and they couldn't get her to come around and that she was on her way to the ER, 3 pm btw.

I got home a few hours later to find out that 2 sheriffs had been bringing her home when she got so beligerent that they decided to arrest her for PI, and she was in jail!

That day I began to not only "believe", but was very impressed with my Hp's timing as well. Thirty minutes...not bad.

So I learned about faith that day, it helps off set fear.

After I got custody my then xaw told me, (actually kind of hissed/growled at me) and I quote, "You don't have enough money to fight me the rest of your life for our daughter". That actually made the hair stand up on the back of my neck.

I learned that day that she was a bully. ALL BULLIES ARE COWARDS. I already knew that part from childhood.

I also learned over the next year that if she ever sobered up, then she might be a threat to me and DD. But that that was not likely to happen.

Good luck TC, I know you will be O.K. Easy for me to say, huh? You know we love you, right? There I go speaking for others again.

Thanks and God bless us all, :ghug3
Coyote

coyote21

Very nicely said.

Thanks and God bless us all, :ghug2
Coyote

GiveLove

TC,

I did not overcome fear of being angrily confrontational. It's something I still hate, and if there is a way to get my life past a bump without it, I'll take it.

It got much easier for me when I had a plan, was implementing it, and put some distance between me and his sickness.

And as Ago so wisely pointed out, anger helped too -- there came a time when he simply treated me so badly that I no longer gave a good g****mn what he felt. You don't have that luxury yet, but you may. Try not to look that gift horse in the mouth when it comes -- climb on up and ride it.

For now, I get a strange intuitive feeling that your logical brain is playing a part in this, that there is a subterranean reason why you are holding back. Perhaps something in you knows you can't afford the energy drain of a huge confrontation right now. Perhaps it has some tiny fearful bit of data about P that your conscious mind has forgotten, and it is trying to warn you off telling him the truth right now.

I have often found it to be the case that my body is far wiser than my mind when it comes to things like fear. It may have a very good reason - I for one would just trust it for now.

Breathe deeply. You will be okay and so will he.

GL

brundle

I think if your making excuses you'll let that stuff go when the time comes. But sometimes "fear" is our gut giving us some good advice that we should listen to. It's been my experience (with two addicts) that when they don't get what they want things get out of control. I'm always VERY nice. When I leave I don't even plan on letting him know where I am; because my "loving husband" is only that way when things go HIS way.

Trust yourself. Do what you need to do. Get your stuff in order before the big fighting starts. If your fear is wrong... it's just you being a bit high strung... if your right imagine the trouble you will save yourself by listening to yourself...

ToughChoices

Thank you all so much for your replies.
I am struck by the simplicity of this: I am afraid because he can be angry. He has been very angry before, and I shudder at the thought of it - the drain that it can be on my schoolwork, my parenting, my friendships.

P has never hit me, but twice, at the height of my codependency and his active, angry drunkenness, he pushed me when I was trying to keep a bottle of vodka away from him.

I have pushed my memories of this far, far away because it is so scary to confront the truth. The man I married could not be an abuser. He could not be an addict. He could not be unfaithful. He is not like that.

Now I wonder. Maybe he could. Maybe he is.

Yuck.

How silly to think that I ought to tell him my plans for divorce! Like I owe him the truth at any cost to my safety and sanity!

It is naive of me to think that I owe this man instant access to my decisions, as they are made. As if he has some right to my reasons and my choices! As if he deserves to know what he's up against so that he can begin his manipulation tactics in a timely manner!

Thank you again for the clarity.

Of course I have to process, plan, and make myself ready for the confrontation. One doesn't just walk into the lion's den hoping the big cat's not hungry.

Feeling better and stronger. I am taking my steps, and I don't owe the man doodley-squat (ESPECIALLY not another baby!).

-TC

p.s. Coyote - I love your HP intervention story about your XAW's arrest - P got a DUI only 2 days after my lawyer told me that I would have a much stronger case if STBXAH had a legal record involving alcohol. Talk about taking care of business!

catlovermi

Personally, I see absolutely nothing wrong with getting one's ducks completely in a row, getting oneself centered, and waiting until the time is right for ME to make a next move.

And, I also see absolutely nothing wrong with using an appropriate third party to relay information or news that is likely to be met with abusive or manipulative response that would not be healthy for me. IMHO, this is largely what lawyers are for, to be this third party, and act as a screen between me and a toxic other party from which I am in process of disentangling/un-enmeshing. For me, a lawyer or such third party is just another sanity tool for me to maintain boundaries. At some point in the future, direct interaction may be possible, but if I feel I need a screen, I am no longer reluctant to use one, in my best interest. It keeps me sane, and on the path toward better health, whereas the alternative sends me back into toxic territory. So why should I feel guilty about using a healthy tool? I no longer do.

CLMI

Daisy30

((()))) I think you got it right!


A friend of mine who was in the military told me this once: "pain is just fear leaving the body"

It makes me think

TC & Coyote what wonderful HP stories... HP always gives us just what we need ((()))

DesertEyes

Hey gang, what a wonderful thread. I just love you guys. Dya think we should make it a sticky?

While you mull over that, here's my .02 on the subject of fear.

I've heard in al-anon that the only thing I am afraid of is having my expectations _not_ come true. I expected a life-long marriage, and I was afraid of losing that. I was expecting to be in a happy partnership with a wonderful woman, and I was afraid of losing that. I was afraid of being a failure as a husband, and I was afraid it was all my fault.

I spent my entire life trying to change the world to meet my expectations. The first six steps of recovery taught me that. The second six steps showed me how to change my expectations to meet the reality of the world.

Specifically, in step 11 it says that prayer and medidation will help me get a better contact with my HP. And since they say faith is the opposite of fear, I've gotten into doing plenty of prayer and meditation.

A little over two years ago I was in the ER at the local hospital, having a heart attack. Those things are incredibly painful, and since I have a long history of heart problems I was _deeply scared_ that I was going to die. There were docs all over me, they had wires and needles stuck everywere, pumping me full of who knows how much chemicals.

The pain stopped, and I prayed _hard_ that I would not die. Then it started again, even stronger than before. It felt like forever, although I imagine it wasn't but a minute or two.

It stopped again, and I developed a resentment at my HP. IF He is going to take me He could just get it over with, instead of torturing me to death. The pain started again.

When it stopped I prayed that the docs would have mercy and just overdose me so it wouldn't hurt anymore. I _really_ wanted to die. The pain started again, and went on forever.

The pain stopped.

Somewhere in the haze of the chemicals I heard a voice reading from a book "praying only for His will for us, and the power to carry that out". I don't know where that memory came from, but I remembered that I am supposed to pray for _others_ who are in greater pain than me. Not for the things _I_ want in my life.

I realized I only had a few minutes left in this world, perhaps I should do something constructive with that time, instead of selfish. So I started to pray for all the people I knew that were going thru hardships. And I specifically prayed for all the fine people here on SoberRecovery.

Somewhere in those last few minutes I passed out. Woke up several days later in ICU. I haven't had another heart attack since. I've lost the fear of dying. Instead I have faith that as long as I hang on to my recovery, I'm going to continue having the wonderful, beautiful life I've got. Yeah I have a lot of hard choices ahead. Nasty medications, surgeries and so on. Someday I will finally kick the proverbial bucket, but until then, I'm loving every minute of my life.

When I let go of my expectation that I was going to live forever, I stopped being afraid of dying. When I let go of my expectation that my marriage would last forever, I stopped being afraid of it ending.

Mike