nowwhat

Coyote, I understand that idea (wait until your children are grown) but I think it's nonsense, frankly. I am 40 and my youngest is 4. My BF is 46. Waiting 14 years before having an honest, whole relationship is absolutely insane. I do believe children are the priority. I do not believe they need to be sheltered from a HEALTHY, loving relationship.

What's more, my BF is involved with my children. He loves them and they love him. We do things together and he spends time at my home (not overnight, no PDA). He would like for us to travel together (without his son) on vacations.

To me this is a "half in, half out" situation.

My BF's ex knows we're together and she has retaliated by limiting "extra" contact with the child, but for the most part that has died down and is back where it was before.

We go out in public all the time, we are together with his friends, I have met everyone in his life.

The relationship is nearly perfect. Except that I just can't tolerate being out of contact for long stretches when he has his son. I want to hear his voice, talk about our days, and give support and love to each other. Even if it's just on the phone. Otherwise what's the point of having a SO?

But I can't help but think it's only QUASI serious if his son doesn't even know he is dating me.

Also, the sleeping together thing troubles me on a number of levels. I don't think it's awful to sleep with your child (occasionally), but for an 8-year-old to be unable to go to bed by himself, in his own bed, strikes me as a problem. I would be worried if my children couldn't fall asleep without me at this age, and would want to change that.

gns

Nowwhat - I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that you want a "real Partner" and this doesn't feel like that.

Any rationalization doesn't change the above statement. Who really cares why?

My ex saw me only on weekends. He had a million reasons (excuses). We worked together, said that was spending time together etc, etc, I wasn't happy. Finally I just about made him buy a house with me. Big surprise - he cheated on me for the first time ever in his life right before moving in with me and we didn't last when we did move in - "I wanted too much time and attention". Puh-lease!! He wanted to be left alone to drink and party and I didn't get it!

My ex had a history of jumping into other's lives (he met F-Ck- buddy's kids but did not integratie her into his life at all). Now if someone doesn't include me into their life, it is a big red flag for me!

Live

There is a definition of a healthy relationship in the relationships forum. Take some time and read those stickies.

I, personally, would take great exception to be excluded from his life when he has his son. He ought to take you and son out to dinner, treat you like a lady he loves and tell his son that you are his girlfriend and he hopes that all of you can spend more time together. He should be an adult and tell him how special you are and how special you are to him.
His behavior is disrespectful and deceitful.

Actually with the email biz, I would make myself unavailable and begin dating.

jmo

nowwhat

I am so grateful for everyone's thoughts.

Problem is--there seems to be a really divided camp! Some of you think it's okay that he compartmentalizes and some think it's a sign of an unhealthy relationship.

As always, I second guess everything and I REALLY don't want to break it off with this guy IF this is an okay arrangement.

I worry that I can't recognize when I'm being disrespected and when I'm being hypersensitive.

I don't trust my feelings in this.

good_luck

Hey there nowwhat,

Perhaps I am off base here, but I read the above to mean that he respects your idea of parenting, in regards to significant others in your life. I don't think that this necessarily means that he has a double standard, just that with his child, he has different ideas.

Personally, I tend to agree more with his stance on this particular issue. I do not think that children of divorce need their lives complicated by their parents' relationships.

This seems to me especially true in a situation where you are considering ending the relationship. What benefit would it be to this 8 year old to grow attached to you at a time where there is this instability?

If what is going on with your SO is as he says it is, and there isn't anything shifty going on, I must say that I am happy that he takes fatherhood so seriously. I think it is lovely that he sets aside the weekend to have time for his child to know that they are special, without the distractions of other relationships. It seems to be making the best out of a situation where they don't get to spend enough time together.

Finally, if it is that stressful not to hear from your SO for one day, maybe you should think about why that is. This isn's stressful for everyone universally. As Barabara said, perhaps you two just have different ideas about what a relationship is, without labelling either side "right" or "wrong."

I hope that you can sort this out -- and I commend you for clearly articulating your boundaries, and what is acceptable and not acceptable to you. I know that can be hard to do, in the midst of things.

nowwhat

LOL, now I'm replying to myself again!

I wanted to add that since I sent the email, he called me twice today (he does have his child) and is coming over tonight and wants to talk about this.

He is the most guilt-ridden divorced dad I have ever encountered, if that makes a difference. I don't think he does what he does out of mean-ness, but out of a sense of obligation and duty.

What I am unsure of is, does it matter why anyhow?

good_luck

To add to the above, there is really no outside answer to this. If it's okay to you, then it's okay. If it's not; it's not.

FormerDoormat

Here's the thing. Non-committed relationships tend to be either brief (because they aren't going in the desired direction), or they move on to committed relationships. After 1.5 years, it should be clear to both parties where the relationship stands.

You obviously feel you're in a committed relationship; and thus, allow him to interact fully with your children. His actions tell me that he, on the other hand, believes he's still partaking in a non-committed relationship. And to him, you may just be an "option." My definition of an "option" is a person I enjoy spending time with UNTIL I find a better, more suitable partner.

And therein lies the struggle. I believe you know your feelings and that your needs are not being adequately met. That's why you posed the question in the first place.

As I said before, it really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. All that matters is what you think. Are you an option in his mind or a fully committed, long-term partner? That's for you to decide.

Best of luck to you.

nowwhat

Hmmm, good luck, could you clarify your implication?

I believe the reason it is stressful is because of the contrast. On "non-parenting" days for SO, he calls me many times and usually I see him.

I don't believe in involving children in dating drama either, but this relationship is not characterized as a dating relationship, but as a Rest of Our Life relationship. That is why I have allowed SO to interact frequently with my children.

Would you say it is acceptable to have two different relationships?

I am not trying to be defensive, but am actually really curious.

FormerDoormat

It's defined as a Rest of Life (ROF) relationship by you. Perhaps he defines it differently.

nowwhat

LOL, his mouth says I'm the love of his life, very frequently, which makes it all the more confusing.

I guess we'll talk tonight and then I'll know more.

Live

I have to agree with formerdoormat all the way on this.

There is talk and then there are actions, if this is for the rest of your life, when does it start....in 12 years?

I don't see much admirable about being the Disney dad. And he is teaching the kid that he is his whole world, not a good thing to do either.

He is hiding you from his son after 1 1/2 years.
I would have expected to ride along to pick up son by this time and to have met mother.

nowwhat

I have to agree with this. My opinion of single parenting is that it should be just like an intact family, with the added responsibility of addressing any stressors the children feel about the situation.

My SO really wants to avoid having his son suffer any "upsetness" or frustration, which I believe is not in a child's best interest, long term.

I REALLY appreciate all of these viewpoints. Even though I don't really agree with the "keep the kids out of it" it is good to know that reasonable people can disagree.

good_luck

I guess what I am saying would best be explained by my own history. I've been in a few Big Relationships.

I remember a time where Boyfriend #1 went to China, on vacation, for three weeks. He called me, maybe, once. Because it was hard to call, and there wasn't really a need to. This did not stress me out.

I also remember a time where Boyfriend #2 (alcoholic) took about 4 hours to call me back, while he was at work, in the same town that I lived in. This stressed me out.

The difference between these two things had everything to do with how secure I felt in the relationship, and nothing to do with me needing a ton of attention, inherently. But that is only something that I can see clearly now, from a distance.

Live

Goodness, it is important to model and teach children how to deal with difficulties and frustrations because it is such an important skill all throughout life. Really he should have learned it by now and if he is in school, then he has had exposure and training.
Generally this is why kids go into the terrible twos and when we work through it with them.

Is the son handicapped? Or have special needs...other than the ones being projected onto him by dad?

This could be such a wonderful opportunity to teach him about relationships and model love and respect.

At 8, he has been exposed by his peers to divorces, dating parents and much more at school. He knows that parents have girlfriends/boyfriends. Some live together. He knows these things. He will soon reach puberty himself!

What is dad's relationship with mother like?

nowwhat

You have all given me a lot to think about.

I am definitely insecure in this relationship, but only around the child issue. When BF is traveling or working, I don't spazz out if we don't talk. It's because I'm worried about dishonesty.

There is some history supporting this--BF came on very strong at first and talked marriage and it all was very appealing. Since the breakup/reconciliation, that talk has ceased and I have done my best to accept that things have to slow down, waaaaay down, b/c he isn't ready and is too worried about his child right now for that.

His child does not have special needs, but is behaviorally difficult and negative. BF is frequently upset about his perception of his child's personality, and is always worried that it is because of the divorce.

We talked and he agreed that he should have called me and that he will be more sensitive in the future. He said he was stressed and in his own world and it is not because he is trying to hide our relationship.

He is actually just beginning to talk to his child about the divorce (he and his ex been separated for more than three years). I have encouraged him to open up the lines of communication--he previously thought it was better not to talk about it (I know, this is really poor judgment!)

So, we had a nice evening, a good talk and I feel a lot better. I think I can handle this relationship as long as I feel I can trust him. The trust is coming back, but ever since our (shocking, dramatic) breakup, I have been wary, and prone to freaking out over things like the no-phone-call situation.

cagefree

What's more important?

The relationship?

Or

Protecting yourself and your children form unacceptable behaviour?

LaTeeDa

I guess my situation is the other side of the coin to yours, but maybe it will provide some perspective.

First of all, I have to say that I am really not looking for a Rest of Life situation. I learned over the course of my ~20year relationship/marriage that things change, people change, and if I get too wrapped up in what might be, I lose the joy of what is right now.

I've been seeing someone for about 1-1/2 years, as well. I have two children, he has none. Being a child of divorced parents, he has reservations about being involved in my children's lives. He wants a relationship with me, not us, lol. In the beginning, I was somewhat bothered by that attitude. Mostly because I felt a little stretched thin having to split my time between me, my kids, and him. So, a couple months into the relationship, I planned a night out for all of us. It was a disaster. My teen daughter was an absolute witch to both me and him and tried everything in her power to ruin the night. I was angry, he was uncomfortable, and no one had a good time.

Looking back, I see that I pushed things too soon. We spend most of our time together when my kids are at their dad's. Once in a while, we all do something together, but it has taken many months for that to be okay with everyone. It is important to me to show my kids that they are my number one priority. He understands that. He has no interest in being a "stepdad" and they have no interest in having one. They already have a dad. Just because I choose to have a relationship with someone doesn't mean they have to.

FWIW, I am very happy with the way things are now that I have taken the pressure off myself. Once I stopped trying to force the situation and just allowed it to unfold naturally, everything just fell into place.

My kids are okay with him and are starting to see him as a friend. My boyfriend is getting more comfortable with my kids and doesn't feel like an intruder anymore. And I have quit trying to be everything to everyone and let all of them know when I need some time just to myself.

No one can tell you how your relationship should be. But, another thing I have learned is that if someone's behavior bothers you, and you have discussed it with them, and they still behave the same way, you really only have two choices. You can accept them exactly as they are and continue the relationship, or accept that you cannot change them and move on.

L