Barbara52

From 52 Weeks of Conscious Contact by Melody Beattie:

Crazy people make us feel crazy. It's not you. It's him. How about that meeting?

"An then he calls a few days later, and he says how sorry he is and I can tell he's sorry. Before I know it, I've forgotten about everything that happened, and it starts all over again. I keep wondering whether I am being used, and then I look at him and I just feel so guilty for everything I'm feeling and thinking. Oh yeah. That Al-Anon meeting."

Step One: Powerless over people, places, and things. My life has become unmanageable. Take a deep breath. Say it again. Then say it one more time. Crazy people make us feel crazy. It will happen every time.

Value: Detach in love. Disentangle. Un-embroil yourself from other people's insanity so you can be restored to sanity.

Barbara52

This step is number one for a reason. Its the foundation of everything else that can follow in our recovery. Just thought I'd put this out there for those who are struggling with letting go and are forgetting they are powerless.

starflier

It seems to me that this answers my question in the other thread about setting rules. Why is it up to me to set rules about my A's drinking? It seems like setting rules is another way of trying to have control, right?

Barbara52

You don't set rules for your A. That is treating them like a child. You do set boundaries for acceptable behavior and set consequences if your boundaries are violated.

For instance, a rule would be: You are not allowed to drink in the house.

A boundary would be: If you drink in the house, I will do X.

starflier

Thank you very much for the clarification. I really want/need to get this straight in my mind. I think that's what I've done in the past: Make rules, and then not have any consequence for them. I simply launch into what I'm now seeing is typical codependent behavior, such as whining, heavy sighs, silent treatment, crying, all that icky stuff. Of course, nothing changes.

Now, If I set a boundary, it's a description of what I will not tolerate in my own life; it's not so much a rule for my A to follow, but really a rule for my own life that I must follow. And, I better be absolutely certain that I mean what I say when I describe the consequences. Lots to think about...

Barbara52

Now you've got it. Its not easy figuring out what you want, what you can tolerate and what you are willing and able to do about it.

SailorKaren

I think boundaries can have variations in strength and consequences. My therapist liked to say that a boundary is like a low fence. It delineates preferences we may have, yet allows one to step over and cross them when invited. A barrier blocks everything. For a while, I set a barrier with my parents during my abuse recovery time, and I stopped all contact with them and refused to open their mail. A barrier would be "Get out, stay away, and I'm never talking to you again." There are times when this is appropriate. A strong boundary is "If you hit me, I will leave and divorce you." If you were to write a list of "deal breakers" like that, you could set strong boundaries from them. A softer one might be "If you're cross with me, I'm sleeping on the couch." Establishing a boundary and determining consequences are two different things in my mind. The consequences are a method of enforcing or maintaining the boundary. The boundary itself is first established when we look inside ourselves and decide what it is that makes us uncomfortable, unhappy, violated, or disconnected from our inner self. A certain amount of overlap is natural between us and a committed partner. But in dysfunctional families, there are few if any boundaries, and family members are said to be emmeshed. When he feels free to intrude into every part of our inner life and being, and we allow it, we are emmeshed, and it's time to figure out what parts of ourselves we want to reserve just for us, and what parts we want to share with others. Hint: It's probably a good idea to start with keeping a majority of our inner being reserved for us.

nowwhat

The first and only boundary I ever set with my XAH was this:

I will stay in this marriage and work on our relationship if you get professional help for your addiction.

He declined, and I left. I was too scared of the consequences to have any boundaries before that. I wonder if things might have turned out differently if I hadn't been so wimpy before.

The behavior you described--whining, heavy sighs, etc. describes how I used to behave and it never changed anything in my marriage. By the time I was strong enough to set a real boundary, it was really too late, because I couldn't stand AH anymore.

Good luck. I have found setting boundaries since then (new BF, my parents, etc.) to be difficult but much more empowering that the passive aggressive stuff. It sure does take practice though!

starflier

Oh, my, lots to think about. I fit the passive aggressive label to an absolute "T" and it's a difficult role to break out of. Not impossible, just difficult.

My youngest daughter has helped me to recognize when I'm behaving that way. When she used to borrow my car and I'd need to remind her to put gas in it, I'd start off the request by reminding her how many times she'd used the car without buying gas, then I'd tell her how much money I'd spent on gas, and then finally, (in kind of a wheedling tone), I'd ask her if she'd please buy some gas this time.

She would stand there and listen to this entire spiel, then break out in laughter! "Mom, why didn't you just ask me right away?" What an eye-opener! I love that kid.

TDinATL

This was needed today, right now I feel crazy.. I definitely feel powerless. And on top of that I'm angry, confused.... etc., etc., etc....

Lilyflower

I'm still learning about boundaries so I would like others opinions on this...

Am I on track here thinking that this isn't a boundary, it sounds more like an ultimatum to me?


Lily xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

miss communicat

I cannot seem to find the exact thread, but there was a great one discussing the distinctions between boundaries and ultimatums awhile back. there are differences.

To me, we spend too much time in a negative frame of mind when discussing boundaries, when instead, we might think a bit more affirmatively.

The old adage "Saying No comes from a bigger Yes" comes to my mind. It means that when I say "no" to certain of his behaviours, it is because I affirm within myself that I was born to live a healthy, productive, useful happy life. Period. I was not intended to suffer through misery.

Put another way, to me, relating is like a dance. If my partner dances with me in any way that I don't enjoy, then I bow out. I stop dancing. I am not a dance teacher, so I don't put myself in that role. (Nothing wrong with being a dance teacher, its just not what I do.)

I do enjoy healthy equality in my relationships.

If my partner dances too rough with me, I bow out of the dance.
If he swings me round and round in dizzying circles, and then lets go, I bow out of the dance.
If he invades my space and hurts my toes after being shown how not to do that, I bow out of the dance.

Bowing out of the dance allows the partner to look at his (or her) own behaviour, and creates the enviornment for improvement, much more effectively than if I am cajoling and monitoring his improvements.

But more importantly, it gives me back my dance card.

Bernadette

Great thread thanks for this B52!

lizw

I think (prior to Al Anon) I used a lot of threats to get what I wanted and to get another person, usually my partner, to conform to what I thought was best for him.

Generally the threat centred around me leaving the relationship, if he didn't do what I said BUT when crunch came to crunch, I couldn't leave, so they were empty threats anyhow.

In Al Anon I have learnt that boundaries are actually about me not the other person. They are about what I feel comfortable being around. Who I feel comfortable being with. And what kind of behaviour and/or situations I want to be party too.

For example, if I don't like the way someone is speaking to me, I can end the conversation and/or change the subject. Or if I don't like being around a certain type of behaviour, I can leave the room and/or leave the house.
If I don't like the way my partner drives, I can drive myself or offer to drive both of us.

By setting boundaries in this way, I take responsibilty for my own behaviour and allow the other person or person/s to take responsibilty for their own behaviour too.