Laan

So really - I'm trying to forgive and understand my father. He is not quite as bad as he used to be, but apparently worse in a different way - trying to be sober now.

Been out 3 weeks now - it's hard, but great. I still have very strong feelings of guilt for having to leave my mother and especially my brother behind. There is family for my mother to go to, but my brother does not want to. I can actually understand this - it would be very far away and his life is here now. You know, with friends and a girlfriend and all. I get SO mad at him for being so stubborn, but then again, I would have felt the exact same if it were me.

I simply cannot help them now. It'll have to wait at least 12 months before I can take my brother away there - but what happens in the meantime? He has become this hollow ghost hovering around there. My father is not making it easy for them. Look, my mother is not at all innocent, but I do not believe she (especially my brother) deserves this. Apparently he would walk past them in the house and call them horrible names for no reason - I've experienced it myself. He's really lost his mind.

So now, I'm thinking, MAYBE if I can understand where he's coming from I can talk some sense into his head? What's it like being drunk like that the whole time - why? why do it? How can I understand him and make him understand me? I'm confused and frustrated!

Bernadette

hey Laan-
So now, I'm thinking, MAYBE if I can understand where he's coming from I can talk some sense into his head?

Oy! Talking sense into him??!! Many have tried. None succeeded!!

Try reading the books "Under the Influence: A Guide to the Myths and Realities of Alcoholism" by James Robert Milam, and Katherine Ketcham or "Drinking: A Love Story" by Caroline Knapp.

These will help you in understanding the alcoholic brain and addict behavior, and help you understand why you will never "talk sense" into him. I mean, you can talk sense at him until you are blue in the face. It will not do what you want it to do.

Peace,
B.

loner1968

ooohhh the Caroline Knapp book is so good. It's a first hand account of what it's like to be there. the denial, the family stuff. I recommend this book too!

Laan

Thanks - will have to look it up.

He frustrates me SO! I swear I could just go over there & slap him until he understands. i know this will not help - maybe just feel good for all the years of pain he has caused. Sigh, though I'd never just attack someone.

Will have to see if I can read up about this hey!

Laan

Got a call from my mother yesterday - she was in such a mess.

The devil has started drinking as bad as before! He is once again screaming & shouting at all hours of the night - then picking on my brother for eating a friggin' muffin (which I had made at MY house, for my BROTHER)

Ooooh - I just don't know what to do anymore. Should I call over there to hear what has happened in the meantime? I know that will upset me terribly, but I'm already upset - not knowing what the hell is going on there! I know what he's capable of! Should I make an anonymous call to the police for him? I want to, but also not? I just don't know.

Do I wait it out to see if they'll move out & things will be fine???

Any advice would be appreciated!

peaceteach

Laan,

You have suffered enough to remove yourself physically from the drama = taking care of YOU, the one thing that is in YOUR control. It took you seeking out help to realize this and how powerless you are over your dad's addiction. Now it's your mom's turn. The best thing you can do for your mom and brother is to continue taking care of you and therefore provide them with a great example of how one best deals with an active addict in denial. Step away from the drama and let your loved ones find the answers for themselves. It is not your fault, and you can't save anyone at this moment but yourself. YOU deserve some peace and serenity, and you are working hard to achieve this. Removing yourself was such a wonderful thing for you to do, but it took a long time for you to realize this was best. It may take your mother a while longer too. Let her own her choices, let her come to her own realizations of what is best for her.

For brother, if it is possible, I would tell him he is always welcome to come to your house, day or night (again, if that is possible) if necessary.

Laan

hey peaceteach,

i finally stopped sobbing after reading your post. deep down i know i cant do much. there isn't really space for my brother now - i'm looking into hiring a room for him - just to have a roof over his head. i pray the answers/solutions will come soon. mayit be God's will.

thank you for the kind words!

mle-sober

Laan,

I'm sorry you are suffering. It sounds like you have really been through the ringer and that you are doing a wonderful job of searching out the truth of what you need to do and healing yourself. I hope that as time moves forward, you feel more and more freed from your father's corruption of your life.

I am a recovering alcoholic and I was in this forum because I had posted a question about Al-anon. I think, actually, you were one of the people who responded (thank you). So, your question caught my eye. What's it like, I wonder? I hope I don't further hurt you by answering your question from this alcoholic's point of view.

What it's like is like being taken over by aliens who devour your best intentions, create chaos out of any order in your brain and direct all your sympathys toward your own desire to consume alcohol. You wake up in the morning and it's the first thing you think about. You protect your stash like it's made of gold. You hate yourself with a passion at the same time that you do ridiculous, stupid things - desperately trying to just keep the alcohol flowing into you. By the time I quit I was a broken down dog unable to see how I'd hurt people, just begging, begging, begging for God to either kill me off or throw me a bone to help me quit. I was a desperate, devestated, terrified woman.

And I was a secret drinker, still taking kids to school, volunteering occassionally, making nice dinners, folding laundry and otherwise looking completely normal. Imagine how devestated your Dad's life and soul are right now. Believe me, he is soaked in misery. He is a terribly unhappy man. His life is absolutely ruled by something he can't understand at all.

I guess I thought I'd tell you my thoughts on this with the idea that maybe you would get some little bit of peace knowing that you Dad is not intentionally hurting you and your family. He is pathologically out of control And it's a terrible experience. I'm not comparing yours to his. PLEASE don't think I am. And you probably already know everything I just said.

I hope I didn't cause you any pain. I'm sorry you're suffering. I think it sounds like you're doing a good job and that you are a very courageous woman.

- MLE

Laan

mle-sober,

No, I am not upset at all - in fact, you have helped more than you can imagine. That is exactly what I was looking for. Yes, it hurts to hear some of it & I did realize bits of it already, but not so much.

I thank you kindly for sharing with me - I am really trying to understand him, because I think he feels that the world owes him something, but the world is just not as understanding as he thought. He really makes me so angry hey. He basically had it all - we weren't rich or anything, but we lived comfortably. Now, he has written off his 2 nice cars, a rental & has taken my car for himself. Yet another thing that infuriates me.

On the one side I want to call him & speak to him about it all - in the nicest manner I can, but then I think: "What'll I say?" I feel so helpless with all this & it is still affecting my personal life...sigh.

But thank you again for the eye-opener. I appreciate it so much!

SailorKaren

Laan, you sound better! You're doing a great job so far.
I think it is wise of you to wait and not talk to your father. I think the stronger and more centered we can be, the better it will be when we make contact. I think it's also helpful to get clear beforehand exactly what we would like to receive out of the contact. You could maybe even write a little list. Then make an honest assessment of the likelihood that your father can or will provide what you're looking for. Not to say that he never will, but to simply ask, is it reasonable at this time, to expect a favorable outcome from him? You might also prepare some notes, or a little script, of how you would respond to some negative things he might say. That way, you won't be taken off guard in the conversation. You're really starting a new relationship with him, coming from a position of strong self-care, genuine concern for him, and a willingness to let him lead the life he chooses. In this new relationship, you will gently show him how you expect to be treated, and he can either honor that, or not, as he chooses. If, over time, he consistently treats you like dirt, you may choose to sever contact. I suspect you'll get a combination of responses, and what you're willing to live with may change over time as well. Your challenge will be to really support yourself, and not settle for something prematurely that will, down the road, feel like a betrayal of yourself.

Please keep posting! I am inspired by your work.
Karen

Lilyflower

Hi Laan,

Some great points made here, and I have to agree with Peaceteach, your mum and brother have to live with the choice they made. They have pretty much agreed with themselves that for them the situation is not unbearable and they are going to stick it out. Even no choice is a choice to remain within the chaos. I hope they come to realise what you have soon for their sanity. Only time will tell over this.

Also agreeing with SailorKaren, you need to ensure you are keeping true to yourself. While all of this still has such a profound impact upon your state of happiness and well being, you are not in a position to help your family. A drowning man can never save another who is drowning, one of them has to first get back on the boat, save himself and then reach for the other, then there's still a risk you'll fall back into the ocean!

Lily xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Laan

Well, I have spoken to my dad - just yesterday & I feel a little more settled.

I actually called there to hear if my mother got the job she was going for & to hear how my brother was doing.

I spoke to my mother first - she seemed ok until he had his constant comments in the background - if I have it right he tried to grab the phone from her (it wasn't really to speak to me, more just to have that control over my mother) & she ran away - so we started talking...

I had to first calm him down as my parents seem to bring out the worst in each other. After calming him - I tried to sound as calm & understanding as I could & dived in: I asked him straight "did you start drinking again?" At first it was silent - I thought maybe he had just put the phone down or hung up, then his honest response came: "Yes, but not as bad as before" Now, I have heard this sentence before, but I am hoping for the best.

I have even spoken to John (also on here) & he has helped with some advice with getting my dad to go to AA meetings. When I spoke to my dad I told him what John had said & he said that he would go tomorrow - we'll see hey. Sigh, I don't know anymore. I actually feel bad for my dad. My bf warned me this would happen & also warned that he would not support my dad as soon as we were out there - he suffered basically just as much in the whole thing & he knows what this is doing to me.

Now I don't know whether I should call over there tomorrow morning & hear if he went - as encouragement. I should probably expect a bad reaction, but maybe he would see ppl still care.

I pray things go in the right direction!

SailorKaren

Hey Laan, I'm glad you took some time for yourself to get clear and centered before you talked to your Dad. I liked that you were able to stay calm, and just look at what effect your calmness had on letting him be calm and share with you about his drinking. But what he did to your Mom drives me up the wall to hear it:
:wtf2
That's pretty outrageous behavior! I think that would happen no more than twice with any partner I would have. The first time I might chalk up to an error in judgment, assuming appropriate apologies were given in profusion, and the second time would end the relationship, period.
One of the topics in our therapy sessions involved how to deal with our compulsive behaviors. The first step is to refrain from engaging in them for a time, and become aware of the feelings that come up for us. I would consider refraining from calling over there, and see how that makes you feel. If you start to get edgy, and anxious, and you feel you just have to find out...., well, wouldn't that sound a little like someone needing a fix? I can't speak for you, of course, and I think it is admirable how you can hold good feelings toward him when he acts that way (I know, he is your Dad, and yes, I am the same way). But he clearly has no regard for personal boundaries with your Mom, and I'll bet he didn't with you either. One of the ways you can help teach him about boundaries is to act as if he set one up for himself, and give him some space around his going to AA. When you think about it, it's a pretty personal decision, and not really any of our business unless he shares about it. Sharing with you would be an example of him inviting you across his boundary. That's the cool thing about a boundary, rather than a barrier: a boundary is meant to be stepped over from time to time, when both parties agree to it. A barrier is there for protection and security, and is hardly ever crossed.

Way to go girl, and keep us posted on your progress.
Karen

Laan

Well - dad's been treating us like that all the time he drank. He'll do something like that, but then run away - he's a coward I think.

We were that side over the weekend & we were left alone in the same room. I did end up asking him if he went. He said no. I just calmly responded that I learned here that it needs to be HIS decision if he wants to sort his life out. Not ours.

At least it seems that things are starting to move in some direction - my mother will move in with family in about3 weeks (we are helping her) and my brother will stay with a friend (I pray he can - at least just for 6 months - then he can come live with me after that) My dad does have place to go, but he'll have to become and stay entirely sober. I really wish them all the best.

You know, I still have really hard days (you'll notice when I post on SR) but I haven't slept as soundly as I am now in years. (Other than the noisy neighbors) I sleep so deep & well! I'm glad that I can come here to voice my feelings & see other ppl's opinions. Many times it has opened my eyes to different point of views or where I fall short.

Let's hope the next 3 weeks go by uneventful - I'd rather have a boring 3 weeks than filled with terror! Here's hoping!

Thanks for the advice & thoughts!

Bernadette

hey Laan-
thanks for the update---
enjoy your deep sleeps - the mind is doing a lot of work in those hours - probably sorting stuff you've had queued up for years!!
(((hugs))) and prayers for YOUR continued strength and recovery, and a peaceful transition for all your family over the next 3 weeks -- esp. your little brother - that must be very hard.
Peace,
B.

Laan

Hey B.

Yeah, it's difficult. I hope he will also heal there - away from the hatred and stress.
I pray that we can afford to hire or buy maybe a big enough place to be able to take him with. That would basically put my mind at ease for good.

I'd still worry that my mother is safe all that way (where she'll be going) ....and my dad...yeah, even after it all. The dad that I used to call daddy - I feel sorry for him & miss him dearly. I'm surprised - that just brought me close to tears...thought I was so hardened against all of this.

I thank the Lord that things are going better - also that I have found SR - it has greatly helped me. Every time I'm finished with one of my posts - even if it's just to complain a little or thank a little - or just to read - I feel like I can breathe easy.

P.S: Thanks to all - especially Bernadette who seems to remember my posts! :ghug