New here, with a question or two....
Can't make sense out of crazy.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: In the Bluegrass, Baby!
Posts: 211
New here, with a question or two....
Hi there,
Briefly I am a 30-something woman who was with her husband for 13 years, raising 7 kids, now seperated from husband since late Sept '07.
Husband has been an alcoholic/drug user (mainly marijuana) since he was 13yo. Was in rehab before he was 15yo. He is now just turned 40yo. He is what they call a functional alcoholic, and to everyone else, a super guy.
He has always held down a decent job, works very hard, sacrafices much for family, would give the shirt off his back to anyone, most people would never know he is an alcoholic. He doesnt get abusive when he uses, except for twice in the 14 years we've been together. And that was angry words and threatening body language.
Anyhow, we've been seperated, but still acting like a couple most of the time. Spend weekends together, sometimes s*x, ect......
We've been talking about him possibly moving back in, yet he can't commit to yes depsite telling me every day, multiple times how much he loves me, how he loves me more than anyone else, how if he cant have me then he doesnt want anyone else ever.
The two stumbling blocks are, of course, his refusal to get treatment/help for his addictions is the main one, his refusal to give up his friendships with his drinking/pot smoking friends, and a problem with his mother - she never, ever liked me and is thrilled that we are not together anymore - he refuses to stand up to her & defend me, and doesn't want to upset her by moving back in with me.
He said that if he moved back in with me, he would never hear from her because she would never talk to him again.
Anyhow (trying to make this all really brief) I told him what I am willing and unwilling to live with, as I have many times before. Which is why he moved out in the first place, after the big ultimatum.
His view is that I just want to change him into someone he isn't, that I'll never be happy until I make him into who I want him to be, and that he is happy with the way he is.
I tell him over and over and over that I want our marriage to work. BUT I want a HEALTHY marriage, with us both taking an active part in therapy, ect. Lord knows I have my own issues.
We briefly went to therapy last year but when things got said that he didn't want to hear he would walk out and leave the session.
So, why am I still banging my head against the wall here? The signs are clear, what he isn't saying and what he isn't doing are way more telling than all the times he says he loves me more than anything in the world, ect....
When we talked today briefly, he said "okay, I'll move back in, but there are things I'm not going to do." I said "okay, what are those?" and he said for starters, he wasn't going to hurt his mother, and that he cant control her or change her anyway (the situation also involves his mother rejecting our daughter & playing favs with my husbands other children too) so he's not dealing with her, and that he is not giving up his friends. (meaning his drinking buddies)
So, that pretty much sums it up then, huh?! By the way over the past three years we've had ultimatum talks 3 times and every time he has chosen his friends and control of his own life over me and our family.
He just keeps saying that I want to change him and that he'll never be good enough to satisfy me. That I want him to be someone he isn't.
I told him that just as there are things about me that I need to change in order for us to have a healthy relationship, there are things he needs to change too. There are things not acceptable to him and there are things not acceptable to me. I'm trying to get across the concept of boundaries, which doesnt go over too well.
So, is he trying to use my wants and needs for change in him against me as if it were a bad or unreasonable thing?
Me wanting us to both be working towards a healthy, happy future is a bad thing?
Thoughts/comments welcome. Thanks.
Briefly I am a 30-something woman who was with her husband for 13 years, raising 7 kids, now seperated from husband since late Sept '07.
Husband has been an alcoholic/drug user (mainly marijuana) since he was 13yo. Was in rehab before he was 15yo. He is now just turned 40yo. He is what they call a functional alcoholic, and to everyone else, a super guy.
He has always held down a decent job, works very hard, sacrafices much for family, would give the shirt off his back to anyone, most people would never know he is an alcoholic. He doesnt get abusive when he uses, except for twice in the 14 years we've been together. And that was angry words and threatening body language.
Anyhow, we've been seperated, but still acting like a couple most of the time. Spend weekends together, sometimes s*x, ect......
We've been talking about him possibly moving back in, yet he can't commit to yes depsite telling me every day, multiple times how much he loves me, how he loves me more than anyone else, how if he cant have me then he doesnt want anyone else ever.
The two stumbling blocks are, of course, his refusal to get treatment/help for his addictions is the main one, his refusal to give up his friendships with his drinking/pot smoking friends, and a problem with his mother - she never, ever liked me and is thrilled that we are not together anymore - he refuses to stand up to her & defend me, and doesn't want to upset her by moving back in with me.
He said that if he moved back in with me, he would never hear from her because she would never talk to him again.
Anyhow (trying to make this all really brief) I told him what I am willing and unwilling to live with, as I have many times before. Which is why he moved out in the first place, after the big ultimatum.
His view is that I just want to change him into someone he isn't, that I'll never be happy until I make him into who I want him to be, and that he is happy with the way he is.
I tell him over and over and over that I want our marriage to work. BUT I want a HEALTHY marriage, with us both taking an active part in therapy, ect. Lord knows I have my own issues.
We briefly went to therapy last year but when things got said that he didn't want to hear he would walk out and leave the session.
So, why am I still banging my head against the wall here? The signs are clear, what he isn't saying and what he isn't doing are way more telling than all the times he says he loves me more than anything in the world, ect....
When we talked today briefly, he said "okay, I'll move back in, but there are things I'm not going to do." I said "okay, what are those?" and he said for starters, he wasn't going to hurt his mother, and that he cant control her or change her anyway (the situation also involves his mother rejecting our daughter & playing favs with my husbands other children too) so he's not dealing with her, and that he is not giving up his friends. (meaning his drinking buddies)
So, that pretty much sums it up then, huh?! By the way over the past three years we've had ultimatum talks 3 times and every time he has chosen his friends and control of his own life over me and our family.
He just keeps saying that I want to change him and that he'll never be good enough to satisfy me. That I want him to be someone he isn't.
I told him that just as there are things about me that I need to change in order for us to have a healthy relationship, there are things he needs to change too. There are things not acceptable to him and there are things not acceptable to me. I'm trying to get across the concept of boundaries, which doesnt go over too well.
So, is he trying to use my wants and needs for change in him against me as if it were a bad or unreasonable thing?
Me wanting us to both be working towards a healthy, happy future is a bad thing?
Thoughts/comments welcome. Thanks.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
Seems as though he has made a choice about what kind of life he wants, and the way he wants it to be, and what kind of person he is willing to be.
Sad as it seems, he is being honest with you: this is me. This is all you are ever going to have from me. Take me or leave me.
And so you must. Perhaps you're unwilling to compromise when it comes to his mother. Perhaps you just don't want to live with an alcoholic drug user. Whatever it is YOU want for YOU, if there is no chance of compromise on either side, if neither of you will (or can) bend, then you have to make a choice.
There are others out here (myself included) who never get such a straight answer from our alcoholic spouse....we just have to GUESS at what's true, what's felt. You seem to have a pretty clear sign. The hard and sad part is to act on your own values.
So sorry you're going through this.
Sad as it seems, he is being honest with you: this is me. This is all you are ever going to have from me. Take me or leave me.
And so you must. Perhaps you're unwilling to compromise when it comes to his mother. Perhaps you just don't want to live with an alcoholic drug user. Whatever it is YOU want for YOU, if there is no chance of compromise on either side, if neither of you will (or can) bend, then you have to make a choice.
There are others out here (myself included) who never get such a straight answer from our alcoholic spouse....we just have to GUESS at what's true, what's felt. You seem to have a pretty clear sign. The hard and sad part is to act on your own values.
So sorry you're going through this.
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
I would like to say WELCOME to SR. You have found a great place, with lots of folks with Experience, Strength and Hope (ES&H) who are more than willing to share it.
Look around SR, read the 'sticky's at the tops of this forum and others like the Alcoholism Forum. Those 'stickys' are a great education on their own.
Looks like he's given you his answer. He is still in denial and he's is only going to get worse. Ultimatums will not make him stop drinking or give up his drinking buddies. King Alcohol has a good hold on him.
Maybe it's time for you try some Alanon. It is usually suggested that you try at least 6 meetings before making the decision if you like it or not.
There you will learn the 3 C's:
You didn't CAUSE it,
You can't CONTROL it, and
You can't CURE it.
Time to take care of YOU!!!!! Time to start figuring out what you want for the rest of your life. Do you want to live with and watch the downhill decline of an alcoholic? And it does get worse, a lot worse or do you want a calm and serene life without the chaos and drama?
Please keep posting and let us know how YOU are doing, we do care very much.
Love and hugs,
Look around SR, read the 'sticky's at the tops of this forum and others like the Alcoholism Forum. Those 'stickys' are a great education on their own.
Looks like he's given you his answer. He is still in denial and he's is only going to get worse. Ultimatums will not make him stop drinking or give up his drinking buddies. King Alcohol has a good hold on him.
Maybe it's time for you try some Alanon. It is usually suggested that you try at least 6 meetings before making the decision if you like it or not.
There you will learn the 3 C's:
You didn't CAUSE it,
You can't CONTROL it, and
You can't CURE it.
Time to take care of YOU!!!!! Time to start figuring out what you want for the rest of your life. Do you want to live with and watch the downhill decline of an alcoholic? And it does get worse, a lot worse or do you want a calm and serene life without the chaos and drama?
Please keep posting and let us know how YOU are doing, we do care very much.
Love and hugs,
play the tape all the way thru
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 480
Hello and welcome!
I totally could relate to your post. My xabf said almost the exact same things as your husband.
He too only hangs out with old friends that are mostly addicts or alcoholics. Also started using very young, and his family seemed to be a bit of a problem in our relationship.
He flat out told me a few months back that he would never give up his friends as they were his best friends that he has known all his life. He too thought I was trying to "make him into someone he's not," and why couldn't I love him the way he is. I suddenly became a control freak.
So after many nights of being alone on the weekends when he left me to "go visit his friends," I decided enough was enough and I kicked him out of the bedroom and he eventually moved out. This has all been very recent and I'm still hurting over the whole thing.
But I do know, that there is not one single thing I can do to change his outlook on life and his drinking. I then started taking care of me and what I could do to better myself and my life. And living with an active alcoholic I knew in my heart that what we had was all I would ever have with him.
I totally could relate to your post. My xabf said almost the exact same things as your husband.
He too only hangs out with old friends that are mostly addicts or alcoholics. Also started using very young, and his family seemed to be a bit of a problem in our relationship.
He flat out told me a few months back that he would never give up his friends as they were his best friends that he has known all his life. He too thought I was trying to "make him into someone he's not," and why couldn't I love him the way he is. I suddenly became a control freak.
So after many nights of being alone on the weekends when he left me to "go visit his friends," I decided enough was enough and I kicked him out of the bedroom and he eventually moved out. This has all been very recent and I'm still hurting over the whole thing.
But I do know, that there is not one single thing I can do to change his outlook on life and his drinking. I then started taking care of me and what I could do to better myself and my life. And living with an active alcoholic I knew in my heart that what we had was all I would ever have with him.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
Hiya strongerwoman--
Welcome!
You posted:
"He just keeps saying that I want to change him and that he'll never be good enough to satisfy me. That I want him to be someone he isn't."
I don't even know your man and I believe him.
You want him to be sober/recovered?
You want him to be emotionally available?
You want him to stop hanging out with his loser Bar buddies.
You want him PUHLEEEEEEEEEEZE to be able to handle both his Wife and mother (in that order for God's sake).
He is not any of these things so he's telling you the truth, that he'll never be good enough to satisfy you.
You don't have to "get across the concept of boundaries" to him. It doesn't matter how it goes over with him!! You just tell him what the boundary is and what you'll do if he crosses it. A boundary is something you decide. You decide the consequences. The consequences are meant solely to benefit YOU and YOUR mental health, not to punish the alcoholic, or try to change his behavior. The consequence exhibits YOUR changed behavior.
Keep reading and posting - there is lots of good information in the "stickies" at the top of the first page of this forum. Also try to get the book "Co-Dependent No More" by Melodie Beattie. (every library has it) You're in a good place here to get some ES&H from many people who have stood in your shoes--stick around!
Peace,
B.
Welcome!
You posted:
"He just keeps saying that I want to change him and that he'll never be good enough to satisfy me. That I want him to be someone he isn't."
I don't even know your man and I believe him.
You want him to be sober/recovered?
You want him to be emotionally available?
You want him to stop hanging out with his loser Bar buddies.
You want him PUHLEEEEEEEEEEZE to be able to handle both his Wife and mother (in that order for God's sake).
He is not any of these things so he's telling you the truth, that he'll never be good enough to satisfy you.
You don't have to "get across the concept of boundaries" to him. It doesn't matter how it goes over with him!! You just tell him what the boundary is and what you'll do if he crosses it. A boundary is something you decide. You decide the consequences. The consequences are meant solely to benefit YOU and YOUR mental health, not to punish the alcoholic, or try to change his behavior. The consequence exhibits YOUR changed behavior.
Keep reading and posting - there is lots of good information in the "stickies" at the top of the first page of this forum. Also try to get the book "Co-Dependent No More" by Melodie Beattie. (every library has it) You're in a good place here to get some ES&H from many people who have stood in your shoes--stick around!
Peace,
B.
Can't make sense out of crazy.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: In the Bluegrass, Baby!
Posts: 211
Thanks everyone for the super replies.
I've been to AlAnon & will go back once life settles down a bit & I can find the time and gas $ to go, I've read the Beattie books so many times I almost know them by heart. I guess I am a stubborn case, huh?!
I should say that I've made HUGE progress, when he left suddenly I pretty much had a nervous breakdown, didnt sleep but maybe three hours in a seven day period, lost 13lbs in a weekend, ect. I couldn't go 3 hours without calling him and breaking down, couldnt talk to him without breaking down. I was a total mess and Xanax was my only friend.
Now, I am MUCH better, and the roles have really switched. He is the one hanging on to me, I am the one getting on with life. I DO love him. But I am TIRED of the drama, the HUGE mood swings and anger issues, the trying to police him around the kids, the dishonestly (subtle and not) and tired of second guessing everything he says - is it the truth or not?
Honestly its much nicer around the house everyday without all of this. And when he comes around he messes it up most of the time.
I don't know why I'm keeping the pipe dream alive, maybe because he quit cold turkey before years ago for years, maybe because he keeps calling me and showing up professing his love, wanting to spend time together, ect.
We had one of those relationships that was (I thought at the time) soooooo great, the kind all your friends are jealous of. Where everyone thinks its perfect. I guess I'm hanging on to him waking up and wanting that back too and commiting to doing what it takes to get it back.
Right now he seems to just wallow in this "I'll never be good enough for you, I'll never be the man you want" speech. Which I told him is untrue of course, as always I try to encourage him as much as possible.
He is losing his wife & family, he is about to get fired from his job of 11 years due to poor performance when he used to be at the top of his game & was the prized employee.
I guess I wish there was a magic pill that could motivate him.
I think my biggest mistake was letting us fall back into a relationship routine without him having made any changes at all.
Now I have to try and negotiate us splitting apart again, which is going to be HARD.
Thanks for letting me post my thoughts here, I've visited this board for at least the past 8 months off and on, so although I'm new here, I'm not :o)
I've been to AlAnon & will go back once life settles down a bit & I can find the time and gas $ to go, I've read the Beattie books so many times I almost know them by heart. I guess I am a stubborn case, huh?!
I should say that I've made HUGE progress, when he left suddenly I pretty much had a nervous breakdown, didnt sleep but maybe three hours in a seven day period, lost 13lbs in a weekend, ect. I couldn't go 3 hours without calling him and breaking down, couldnt talk to him without breaking down. I was a total mess and Xanax was my only friend.
Now, I am MUCH better, and the roles have really switched. He is the one hanging on to me, I am the one getting on with life. I DO love him. But I am TIRED of the drama, the HUGE mood swings and anger issues, the trying to police him around the kids, the dishonestly (subtle and not) and tired of second guessing everything he says - is it the truth or not?
Honestly its much nicer around the house everyday without all of this. And when he comes around he messes it up most of the time.
I don't know why I'm keeping the pipe dream alive, maybe because he quit cold turkey before years ago for years, maybe because he keeps calling me and showing up professing his love, wanting to spend time together, ect.
We had one of those relationships that was (I thought at the time) soooooo great, the kind all your friends are jealous of. Where everyone thinks its perfect. I guess I'm hanging on to him waking up and wanting that back too and commiting to doing what it takes to get it back.
Right now he seems to just wallow in this "I'll never be good enough for you, I'll never be the man you want" speech. Which I told him is untrue of course, as always I try to encourage him as much as possible.
He is losing his wife & family, he is about to get fired from his job of 11 years due to poor performance when he used to be at the top of his game & was the prized employee.
I guess I wish there was a magic pill that could motivate him.
I think my biggest mistake was letting us fall back into a relationship routine without him having made any changes at all.
Now I have to try and negotiate us splitting apart again, which is going to be HARD.
Thanks for letting me post my thoughts here, I've visited this board for at least the past 8 months off and on, so although I'm new here, I'm not :o)
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Your story has a lot of similarities to mine. I was with my H for 18 years, 2 children. We separated in June or July of 05. He quit drinking a few months after I kicked him out of the house. He seemed to be getting his life together. About a year after we separated, we started seeing each other again. I had hopes of reconciliation. I'm not sure what his hopes were.
Even though he wasn't drinking, I still saw behaviors from him that were not acceptable to me. He was still hanging with his drinking buddies, still putting other activities first before family activities, still being generally selfish. I heard all the same stuff you are hearing. He is who he is, not going to change for me or anyone. I wanted so badly to have the marriage I dreamed of. He wanted to have his cake and eat it too. He wanted a wife and family without the responsibilities. He wanted a home to come to, but only when he wasn't out living the free and easy life.
It took me a long time to realize that he wasn't going to be the husband I wanted. I had to decide if I could accept him as he is. Actually, I had no choice but to accept him as he is. My choice was whether I could live with him as he is. I decided I couldn't. It was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life, filing for divorce.
My life today is good. I have peace in my home. My children have a good relationship with their father. They see him often. I am dating a nice man who respects me and treats my heart with the care it deserves. It's not the life I envisioned two years ago, but it's turned out for the best.
I'm still on my journey of self-discovery learning more about me every day. My children are learning how to be strong and make wise decisions from my example. I feel younger than I did 10 years ago. I'm looking forward to the rest of my life and whatever adventures it holds. For the first time since I can remember, I am optimistic about the future.
I hope you find peace, too.
L
Even though he wasn't drinking, I still saw behaviors from him that were not acceptable to me. He was still hanging with his drinking buddies, still putting other activities first before family activities, still being generally selfish. I heard all the same stuff you are hearing. He is who he is, not going to change for me or anyone. I wanted so badly to have the marriage I dreamed of. He wanted to have his cake and eat it too. He wanted a wife and family without the responsibilities. He wanted a home to come to, but only when he wasn't out living the free and easy life.
It took me a long time to realize that he wasn't going to be the husband I wanted. I had to decide if I could accept him as he is. Actually, I had no choice but to accept him as he is. My choice was whether I could live with him as he is. I decided I couldn't. It was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life, filing for divorce.
My life today is good. I have peace in my home. My children have a good relationship with their father. They see him often. I am dating a nice man who respects me and treats my heart with the care it deserves. It's not the life I envisioned two years ago, but it's turned out for the best.
I'm still on my journey of self-discovery learning more about me every day. My children are learning how to be strong and make wise decisions from my example. I feel younger than I did 10 years ago. I'm looking forward to the rest of my life and whatever adventures it holds. For the first time since I can remember, I am optimistic about the future.
I hope you find peace, too.
L
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