CBrown

I sent these excerpts from "Without Conscience" to a friend this morning. We were pondering the question "Which came first? The psychopath or the alcoholic?" I chose these quotes because when I read them I said "OMG, that's R!" My friend wrote back "Oh wow! Very familiar...the psychopathic personality may be more dominant in him that the alcoholic one in some ways because he has been that way forever I bet, and even when sober (however rare that was) he was a psychopath. One feeds off the other!"

From "Without Conscience"
"He was always telling me how much he loved me, and at first I believed him, even after I caught him fooling around with my sister," said the estranged wife of one of our psychopathic subjects. "It took me a long time to realize that he didn't care for me at all. Every time he beat up on me he would say, 'I'm really sorry, pigeon. You know I love you.' Right out of a cheap movie!" This would come as no surprise to clinicians, long aware that psychopaths seem to know the dictionary meanings of words but fail to comprehend or appreciate their emotional value or significance."

"Many psychopaths never go to prison or any other facility. They appear to function reasonably well ... without breaking the law, or at least without being caught and convicted. These individual are every bit as egocentric, callous, and manipulative as the average criminal psychopath; however, their intelligence, family background, social skills, and circumstances permit them to construct a facade of normalcy and to get what they want with relative impunity."

"Many people are attracted to pop-psych movements that emphasize a search for self-understanding - 'getting in touch with your feelings.' For psychopaths, the exercise - like the search for the Holy Grail - is doomed to failure. In the final analysis, their self-image is defined more by possessions and other visible signs of success and power than by love, insight, and compassion, which are abstractions and have little inherent meaning for them."

"Good looks, a touch of charisma, a flood of words, contrived distractions, a knack for knowing which buttons to press - all these can go a long way toward obscuring the fact that the psychopathic presentation is nothing more than a 'line.'"

"Of course, people who make a practice of lying and cheating usually get caught. Their effectiveness then is greatly reduced, so they quickly move on to other partners, groups, neighborhoods, or cities."

"Psychopaths are generally well satisfied with themselves and with their inner landscape, bleak as it may seem to outside observers."

And from the "how to survive" chapter:
* Don't blame yourself. Whatever the reasons for your involvement with a psychopath, it is important that you not accept blame for his or her attitudes and behavior.
* Recognize that you are not alone. Most psychopaths have lots of victims. It is certain that a psychopath who is causing you grief is also causing grief to others.
* Be careful about power struggles. Keep in mind that psychopaths have a strong need for psychological and physical control over others. In a power struggle a psychopath will usually focus on winning.
* Don't expect dramatic changes. To a large extent, the personalities of psychopaths are 'carved in stone.'"

Sound familiar?

Buckstar

I've been following the blog thread, and I want to thank all who wrote for giving me insight into a gay, 19 mo. relationship with an on again, off again alcoholic. Married with 4 teen to adult kids, he has lived mostly with me, and supported by me. He's exhibited all the sociopathic, and narcissistic signs discussed by the bloggers. He will not call, when he's away, for many days, and won't answer the phone, or return a call. By the way, I gave him and pay for his cell phone the first time his wife threw him out, while I was on the scene, 18 mos. ago. His relationship with her is sadistic/control oriented. She pushes all his buttons, doesn't respect him or his opinion, and cuts him off at the knees all the time. He calls her, when he's with me at least 6 times a day...if she a few minutes late from work, he wants to know who, where, when, and sometimes accuses her of sleeping with others. He, on the other hand, has had sex with men since the age of 14, but doesn't consider that cheating, because it's not with a woman. He was, when I delivered him to his wife's apt., last week, 100 days sober. I've gone to Alanon, AA, and take him everywhere, as he's had no license since a DUI a few years ago. He has a warrant outstanding, but will drive his wife's car. He has told me my driving "irritates" him, even though I've taken him all over the planet, my performing doesn't interest him, and the horses either. I've provided him with privacy, and everything he needs, as well as part time work. He watches TV about 18 hrs. a day. By reading what others, who are knowledgeable with this, I've learned that I've done nothing to deserve his indifference, and that a lot of his poor behavior is to be expected. I am wondering, if while he has been away...6 days without contact, as of now, that he might have started drinking again. This is his 8th attempt at rehab over the last few years.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with others...it has really helped.

FarawayFromCars

My sister is capable of being a warm, empathetic person....when she's not drinking. When she is drinking, she is a lying, selfish person who only cares about one thing--where her next drink is coming from. I don't say this with bitterness--now I mostly feel sad for her and her situation--it's just the way it is with this disease.

Welcome to SR....we hope you'll stick around!

BuffaloGal

My aexh felt bad sometimes, he felt guilty, but he did not feel empathy. Observing his reactions to situations even without alcohol, putting himself in the other person's place is difficult-to-impossible for him. He's not a psychopath either, he's no good at faking that kind of emotional interaction.

One of our last conversations involved me saying (okay, shouting) to him several times, "How would you feel if our positions were reversed?!!" He couldn't answer the question. That time he wasn't making up answers or evading; he really had no clue.

Good luck. I couldn't live with it either, no matter how much I loved him.

endlesspatience

I think it's interesting that you mention your former partner's porn collection in the context of his drinking. Alcohol is often misused by people who are crossing sexual boundries as it lowers inhibition. If a gay man feels an inner discomfort with his sexuality, he may use drink and porn in response. Indeed, he may feel they are both essential preludes to sexual intimacy with another man. However both drink and porn desensitise him to his own real emotions and the emotions of others. The more the addictions build, the harder it will be for him to experience empathy.

KeepPedaling

This is such a great thread.

Learn2Live

Hi Buckstar,

Welcome and thanks for posting. It might be beneficial if you post a new thread with more about you, so people can get to know you. I'm not a moderator here so I don't know if I said that right, but I just wanted to welcome you and respond directly to you.

Here are a couple of my thoughts:

Do you think you are going to continue to support him the next time he comes back?

Blame and alcoholism usually go hand-in-hand. When someone is constantly blaming us in order to divert blame for the disease, we become defensive, look for all the ways we have been wrong. In other words, the alcoholic thinking affects OUR thinking. It is very difficult to be healthy in this situation.

Also, his poor behavior may be expected but is this the kind of relationship you want in your life?

Summerpeach

And old thread but worthy of re-hashing. I'm suprised it only went 2 pages since this is such a huge issue with addiction.

Here is how I see it and what I've experienced. The women addicts I know, all empathetic, the men (including my ex's and now bf) don't have an ounce of empathy in their body.
To be quite honest, I don't know many men with empathy. Maybe it's the way they are wired. Not saying all men are like this, but many of them.

And what L2L said as well, alcoholics are notorious for blame shifting and can make anyone feel they are crazy.

When you're with them long enough, it becomes your own addiction, because really, how can you truly love someone who blames, lacks empathy and causes so much unhealthy distress in your life.

It's a sad head game which is hard to escape from