Is it the drinking that's the issue?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Wow, Minnie, how did you know what is on my mind this week? I found myself wondering this very thing. Looking back, I think my marriage began to fall apart long before drinking was *the* issue.
I am starting to believe that the beginning of the end was when I landed my current job. A steady and stable, well-paying, long-term job. For the first time in my life, including the first 8 years of my marriage, I got a taste of stability and security. And you know what, I liked it! I started being a more stable and secure person, and I started acting in ways to protect that. My AH was pleased at first, but I think he began resenting all this in me. Not to mention, I was changing. I was no longer the irresponsible, needy girl he fell in love with. I know I will probably get flamed for this, but I think those things actually contributed to his alcoholism.
And it doesn't matter if any of this makes sense to anyone else, because ever since I started looking at things from this perspective, I am so much less angry than I was before.
You see, I grew. He didn't. I can't blame that on him. I can't blame it on me either. It is what it is. It helps me have peace.
Thanks for your short, but thought provoking thread!
L
I am starting to believe that the beginning of the end was when I landed my current job. A steady and stable, well-paying, long-term job. For the first time in my life, including the first 8 years of my marriage, I got a taste of stability and security. And you know what, I liked it! I started being a more stable and secure person, and I started acting in ways to protect that. My AH was pleased at first, but I think he began resenting all this in me. Not to mention, I was changing. I was no longer the irresponsible, needy girl he fell in love with. I know I will probably get flamed for this, but I think those things actually contributed to his alcoholism.
And it doesn't matter if any of this makes sense to anyone else, because ever since I started looking at things from this perspective, I am so much less angry than I was before.
You see, I grew. He didn't. I can't blame that on him. I can't blame it on me either. It is what it is. It helps me have peace.
Thanks for your short, but thought provoking thread!
L
Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 346
Nope. It's the behavior patterns that go with drinking.
That's the reason that you can substitute a myriad of other things done in a compulsive way and get the same behavior patterns.
That is my two cents.
That's the reason that you can substitute a myriad of other things done in a compulsive way and get the same behavior patterns.
That is my two cents.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
Sometimes, often but I don't think always. I'm not addicted to alcohol but I have flaws a plenty, if I was addicted it wouldn't mean that suddenly all those flaws were just because of booze - even if that was what everyone else thought.
In the begining I thought that D coming with BIG alcohol issues was something I accepted but can I really say that? I love the man and it's part rather than the whole of him - I don't so much accept him as actively want him. Sometimes I wonder if he'd never got in a mess with booze who he would be, it's not impossible that he would be arrogant or judgemental. Would he have had the same gentleness towards those that smile at him so surprised because he opened a door for THEM? I don't know - because I don't know I believe that it's more than an acceptance of the package, I WANT the package.
On the flipside it's still a relationship, two people, two sets of flaws coming together and learning to share a life - it makes no sense at all to me to imagine everything hard, every issue is because of drinking.
I think there are issues in life, AND there's our history effecting how we perceive them, our attitude affecting how we deal with them, our ability to practice and learn. More than that there's never just an isolated single issue - one thing that when fixed would leave life problem free. I believe alcoholism can draw so much focus it can seem that way and then when the drinking stops reality pops up and sticks it's tongue out. That moment to me is a crossroads where some will define all that happens as alcoholic thinking, dry drunk etc etc but personally I opt too see it as life - which will continue to have issues I can learn from.
One of the most helpful things I read had nothing to do with drinking, it was a website on how to argue!!! All about relationship conflict. 'Scuse my arrogance but one of OUR issues was that D can't argue to save his neck - he doesn't defend his own behaviour (or didn't - it's changing) he used to poke and prod little criticisms instead. I got my act together alone, swept my own side of the street and read up how to best behave myself. That started to make a difference while he was drinking - EVEN when he was drunk it made a difference. If you asked me how this year would have turned out had I not found that site - I don't know, except I know it would have been far harder!!
Nope, I think drinking is an issue - a big one but unless there's some mindblowing relationships out there not the only one.
In the begining I thought that D coming with BIG alcohol issues was something I accepted but can I really say that? I love the man and it's part rather than the whole of him - I don't so much accept him as actively want him. Sometimes I wonder if he'd never got in a mess with booze who he would be, it's not impossible that he would be arrogant or judgemental. Would he have had the same gentleness towards those that smile at him so surprised because he opened a door for THEM? I don't know - because I don't know I believe that it's more than an acceptance of the package, I WANT the package.
On the flipside it's still a relationship, two people, two sets of flaws coming together and learning to share a life - it makes no sense at all to me to imagine everything hard, every issue is because of drinking.
I think there are issues in life, AND there's our history effecting how we perceive them, our attitude affecting how we deal with them, our ability to practice and learn. More than that there's never just an isolated single issue - one thing that when fixed would leave life problem free. I believe alcoholism can draw so much focus it can seem that way and then when the drinking stops reality pops up and sticks it's tongue out. That moment to me is a crossroads where some will define all that happens as alcoholic thinking, dry drunk etc etc but personally I opt too see it as life - which will continue to have issues I can learn from.
One of the most helpful things I read had nothing to do with drinking, it was a website on how to argue!!! All about relationship conflict. 'Scuse my arrogance but one of OUR issues was that D can't argue to save his neck - he doesn't defend his own behaviour (or didn't - it's changing) he used to poke and prod little criticisms instead. I got my act together alone, swept my own side of the street and read up how to best behave myself. That started to make a difference while he was drinking - EVEN when he was drunk it made a difference. If you asked me how this year would have turned out had I not found that site - I don't know, except I know it would have been far harder!!
Is it the drinking that's the issue?
*LOL*
Binge poster
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 561
As someone who's never seen her partner drunk, I can safely say no!
I was thinking about this one just today, driving to work. If there was no alcohol in the world and never had been, there would still be the behaviours we associate with it.
People would still have been afraid to feel their feelings, to face their pain and start being kind to themselves.
As far as I can see, the main problems are fear and avoidance.
J
xxx
I was thinking about this one just today, driving to work. If there was no alcohol in the world and never had been, there would still be the behaviours we associate with it.
People would still have been afraid to feel their feelings, to face their pain and start being kind to themselves.
As far as I can see, the main problems are fear and avoidance.
J
xxx
Don't get undies in a bunch
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Shore MA
Posts: 7,120
Originally Posted by bahookie
As someone who's never seen her partner drunk, I can safely say no!
I was thinking about this one just today, driving to work. If there was no alcohol in the world and never had been, there would still be the behaviours we associate with it.
People would still have been afraid to feel their feelings, to face their pain and start being kind to themselves.
As far as I can see, the main problems are fear and avoidance.
J
xxx
I was thinking about this one just today, driving to work. If there was no alcohol in the world and never had been, there would still be the behaviours we associate with it.
People would still have been afraid to feel their feelings, to face their pain and start being kind to themselves.
As far as I can see, the main problems are fear and avoidance.
J
xxx
What may not be noticed or seen, becomes seen when alcohol is added. It isn't always seen for what it is either. Poor behavior is what gets seen, the issues are being covered over by the outside actions.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Lake Luzerne
Posts: 1,786
Yes it is the alcohol, it is bad medicine. You can take a perfectly normal human being no matter who they are, you know the saying, Instant ass----, just add alcohol. Alcohol doesnt' bring out the best in anyone. Alcohol stinks, it kills your body, it effects manners and the mind. I think this is a part of the problem, alcoholics think it makes them brilliant.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: London, UK
Posts: 115
I often think about this one too. Of course in some cases the alcohol will not be the only issue, altough it's always an issue in itself. In other cases, it'll be down to people simply not getting on, whether there's alcohol or not. In my case, my partner has been sober and clean for nearly 5 months now and I can see a huge difference. We still have problems (recovery-related?) and a lot of things are changing in our lives, but I have to say, I like her more: she's responsible, not drunk, doesn't lie to me, she's caring, considerate and present. She doesn't disappear and doesn't talk all night because she's high or sleeps all day after a hangover. Things get done and I am not tense now when we go out. All of the above was not possible when she was using/drinking: at times it feels like she's a different person all together. Love Jo
Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: In my own world...
Posts: 444
Alcohol is a major issue for us. At least all the behavior that comes with it. G becomes a bumbling idiot. I know that's rude but it's totally true. Not much to respect when he's drunk. He turns into possibly the most unattractive person I've ever met. It's definitely not the only problem though. He and I both have very strong, competetive personalities. We fight, just to prove we're right. It really is like putting two cats in a bag sometimes. I'm working on my part of that. I'm trying to learn how to pick my battles. I'm not going to take the big stuff, but I'm starting to figure out that it isn't worth it for us to fight about little things like who folds the towels more efficiently. We also take the other's critism as a personal attack sometimes. One of my New Years resolutions actually was to let one thing go a day. Who knew that was so hard! I continue to work on that daily. Sometimes I still think I'm right, but I keep my mouth shut. 
So no, there's definitely more to it than that. Even without alcohol, we have some work to do.
So no, there's definitely more to it than that. Even without alcohol, we have some work to do.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Where the sun always shines!
Posts: 1,625
I wish I was more secure then, like I am now. I was so pathetic when I met G. Sure I thought I was secure and in charge of myself, but was I really? Knowing then what I know now....I wanted to hold on to something that was only a dream of what could be. I accepted the unacceptable time and time and time again. I allowed myself to be hurt. and then ignored the fact that it hurt me. Why? Because I wanted to "make him happy". Sure he drank a 12 pack a day at 17, but that was not an issue for me at that time. My issues with G started before his drinking became an issue.
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: In Search of Finding ME!
Posts: 1,246
Here's the way that my Dad explains it (and I like the analogy)
It's like a bush. It has many branches. You can fix the branches one by one (one branch: financial issues another branch: drinking another branch: blaming and the list can go on and on) However, even if you fix the branches - the bush will not be fixed/repaired until you get to the root of the bush. You have to get to the root of the problem to fix it.
Ah's drinking was a major factor. However, I have to really wonder about the other issues that contributed to the drinking and everything else.
So was it the issue? I'm thinking that it really wasn't.
It's like a bush. It has many branches. You can fix the branches one by one (one branch: financial issues another branch: drinking another branch: blaming and the list can go on and on) However, even if you fix the branches - the bush will not be fixed/repaired until you get to the root of the bush. You have to get to the root of the problem to fix it.
Ah's drinking was a major factor. However, I have to really wonder about the other issues that contributed to the drinking and everything else.
So was it the issue? I'm thinking that it really wasn't.
My Cape Is at The Cleaners
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Metropolis
Posts: 1,117
I think it’s a crutch. You see I now have met a lot of people in both AA and alanon, and with that I see that all AA’s need to keep going to meeting or some other option to deal with their thought.
Thus it is a way for people to deal with or cope with their problems since they can not handle it any other way.
Drugs, alcohol, sex, eating, all crutches. Then they turn to programs, religion etc to replace these things.
Thus it is a way for people to deal with or cope with their problems since they can not handle it any other way.
Drugs, alcohol, sex, eating, all crutches. Then they turn to programs, religion etc to replace these things.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Keepin' my side of the litterbox clean
Posts: 2,136
Alcohol + Unresolved Issues = Interrelated Problems
My AH has all the warmth and personality of a lump of dough when he's sober - very introverted, pretty much treats me like an inanimate object, or just ignores me, etc. When he gets that certain "glow" he starts calling me "sweetheart." Yeah, I'm a real sweetie when he gets enough booze in his system. Then when he gets drunk - and even after this long I still can't tell at times how gassed he really is - he'll get downright mean and cruel.
Frankly, I think the deep-seated feelings of inadequacy were there prior to the drinking. The drinking instigated a false sense of security and allowed him to get "up close and personal" with women. I don't know if it's true of a lot of A's out there, but mine feels sorry for himself - as if he got a bum rap from life. Kind of like a "why me?" mentality. Sometimes I think A's aren't particularly capable of seeing that ALL of us have to deal with some difficult situations that life throws our way.
I don't choose to booze, drug, or eat my way out of my misery. That certainly doesn't make me any saint! But, I look around at people who are in far worse situations than I am and figure I should be grateful for all I have and quit whining. Heck, I'm even sick of whining about my AH. Frustrated and annoyed at times, but who isn't when dealing with the human race?
P.S. - Just my two cents but the booze AND the behavior seem to go hand-in-hand with my AH, and both can be VERY trying!
Frankly, I think the deep-seated feelings of inadequacy were there prior to the drinking. The drinking instigated a false sense of security and allowed him to get "up close and personal" with women. I don't know if it's true of a lot of A's out there, but mine feels sorry for himself - as if he got a bum rap from life. Kind of like a "why me?" mentality. Sometimes I think A's aren't particularly capable of seeing that ALL of us have to deal with some difficult situations that life throws our way.
I don't choose to booze, drug, or eat my way out of my misery. That certainly doesn't make me any saint! But, I look around at people who are in far worse situations than I am and figure I should be grateful for all I have and quit whining. Heck, I'm even sick of whining about my AH. Frustrated and annoyed at times, but who isn't when dealing with the human race?
P.S. - Just my two cents but the booze AND the behavior seem to go hand-in-hand with my AH, and both can be VERY trying!
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