hamza

To walk away or not...

My story in a nutshell: For the past year i have been involved with a woman in her mid-twenties who has what I would call a binge-drinking pattern. There have been a handful of blackouts, mostly early on in the relationship. In recent months she has slowed down with the drinking and made some lifestyle changes. Basically we come from a creative community of musicians and artists who keep late hours and among whom problem drinking is socially acceptable. She is in a band and her heavy drinking has mostly been limited to the nights when her band plays - every couple of months. My GF started drinking when she was 12, and had a period of intense promiscuity and heavy drinking before she met me. She runs a bar, where she works a couple nights a week.

A few weeks ago an event happened from which I am still reeling. Her band played a show and she drank a lot in a short amount of time - mixing beer, wine, and liquor shots. At first this seemed like a typical night of heavy drinking, which is usually marked by a change in her personality where she gets very emotionally distant and acts almost as if i am not there. Well this night was like that but to an extreme - she ended up in a blackout during which she made out with a guy on the dance floor right in front of me. I broke it up - she seemed stunned and after i talked to her for a while she asked me to take her home. She didn't remember things that had happened five minutes before. I took her home and then i went home alone, fuming. Later that night I went back to her apartment and found her in bed with the same guy. She had gone back to the club, cried to a mutual friend of ours about how she had messed things up, then this guy talked her into taking him home with her. She remembers nothing of this, except for the moments that snapped her briefly out of her blackout trance - me breaking them up on the dance floor and then walking in on them later.

I dropped all her belongings that were at my house on her porch and didn't speak to her for two weeks. I have resumed contact with her. Now she is feeling extreme remorse. She started seeing a therapist. I had a face-to-face meeting in which I told her what had happened in detail and she was horrified. But she has not quit drinking. Instead she thinks she can drink moderately, and use coping skills for those times when she thinks she needs a shot - like when she is nervous about playing a show. And I assume her therapist isn't pushing her to abstain. She has a history of acting out by drinking too much, but also with sex and shoplifting.

I guess my dilemma, besides being in love with her and being unwilling to dismiss her from my life entirely, is that I can't say with certainty if her problem is of the nature that can only be addressed with abstinence. From the DSM criteria I would say her patterns match that of abuse rather than dependency. But according to the AA self-test she could be considered an alcoholic. I want to make sobriety a condition for any further relationship between us.

I realize i need to take care of myself first. This event was traumatic for me. And whether or not she deals with her drinking problem I am having to deal with the damage it has caused me. I have been to a couple of Al-Anon meetings and some of that resonates with me.

Just wondering if anyone here has similar experience and can offer advice.

Thanks!
hamza

bikewench

Hey Hamza...

Welcome to SR...

Similar experiences...
yah...
to your girlfiend.. ;o)

From my own characteristics I've identified for myself... around several of my addictions... I'd say your girl is heading.. or is into.... the end stages of addiction.

http://nickscape.net/recoveryzone/stagesof.htm

I am suspecting that much of her behavior is cycling around her using.. even though she is struggling hard to maintain a semi normal life... in the context of her lifestyle...

We have sober musicians on this forum here.. so.. I know one can play music and not drink..
but.. until she admits the extent of her problem.. she's gonna be in it.

For you...
I would suggest you check into the Alanon and Naranon forums on this board.

Nothing like seeing what's ahead if you choose to stay in a relationship with her...
but.. it will also give you coping tools if you choose to stay as well.

It's your choice all the way.

I hope you continue to seek your answers.. cause they are out there.

Minx1969

Hey Hamza and welcome to SR-

Glad to hear that you are going to Alanon meetings..They really helped me in my last alcoholic relationship (with a musician..he was I'm not)..so I'm can relate to the late nights and lifestyle choices..

I had been with my exbf on and off for 2 years when he finally admitted he had a drinking problem and asked for my help..Long story short - I got help (Alanon) and he is still drinking, tomcatting around etc..

We aren't together today..I'm with a wonderful man that is not an alcoholic..He doesn't need me to save him or fix him (all my problems in that last relationship).

As I went to Alanon meetings I started to re-discover my values and integrity and for me..as much as I loved him (with all my heart..part of me still does)..His behaviors were unacceptable..I realized that women calling him to party at 1 am while he was at my house ..was unacceptable..

I realized that putting alcohol (and music and his friends and his family) and everything else in front of me..was unacceptable..

Basically I came to realize that what he had to offer in a relationship and what I wanted out of a relationship..didn't match up at all..

So although he "broke up with me" ..I stopped taking his calls when he started calling me..

SO..What do you want out of a relationship? Have you made a list of qualities that you are looking for?

Does your girlfriend match with those qualities?

Many of people with substance abuse problems also have mental health issues..Please remember that alcholism is progressive (She's going to get worse) and that just because she stops drinking, doesn't mean her problems are going to go away..

Keep posting!

Good luck..

hamza

Thanks for your input bikewench and Minx. It really is maddening. I worry that I might be bargaining with her drinking problem, by arguing with myself about what to call it, by reading about other recovery methods that might be more compatible with her denial. I would say she is in the Abuse stage of that list you linked, bikewench.

I just read Minx's recent post about shame and reminded myself that this event has caused me a great deal of shame. Becuase other people saw it happen. Or maybe I should have known better or been better prepared for it because of behavior I had noticed in the past. It's interesting, because my rational mind knows that I did nothing to be ashamed of. But a deeply rooted part of me wants to see this as rejection, as reinforcement for shame.

Thanks again!
hamza

Minx1969

Hey Hamza,

There's a saying in Alanon, "if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it is a duck"..

I too went through the stage of "is he an alcoholic or not"..That's really not the problem..It's that fact that her drinking is affecting you! That's what Alanon and counselling can help with..And for me..Alanon still gives me solutions to my problems..

I'd suggest finding a sponsor if you are going to stick around Alanon..They are a wonderful means of support..Can't tell you how many times I leaned on mine..

Another thing I can tell you (although it may not mean much to you at the moment) is that..It really isn't personal. It's their disease..

My sponsor always told me that he would be ok as long as he had the bottle..And I guess today he is still ok..although it's not the type of "ok" that I would want to live like..

Hang in there..We are here to support you.

CarolD

Hi....Carol here a recovered alcoholic.

What I find disturbing is the drunken sex.
I know cause I did it too.

She has sex with X .
You have sex wuth her + X.
Aids..STD's... Herpes...Crabs all very possible.
I have friends who paid for risky sex.


Blackouts begin in the middle stage of alcoholism.
Quitting is the only way they stop,
This is info from
"Under The Influence" by Milam & Ketcham.
my "handvook" on alcoholism.

Welcome to SR!

Dalloway

I am still struggling myself, but I am adding my post because of what you said about the "community." I don't know what your goals in life are but I made a big mistake about assuming how my artistic community would evolve to include "normal" things like children and family life and now I am incredibly "stuck". I didn't see the signs and thought he was behaving childishly and would grow up. Instead he got sicker and now my kids have an A daddy. Something to think about if you are interested in a LTR

Nony

Hamza - yeah, I can surely relate to having someone I was in love with hooking up with someone else while drinking, the embarrasment and feeling of rejection. It is a horrible thing to go through. You'll get some great support here.

Your statement that I quoted above stuck out to me though. You can put any conditions on her you want but you can't control her behavior with them. And she needs to want the sobriety for herself, not for you. You need to set up conditions or boundaries for yourself (not her) and then do what you have to do to decide what you can live with.

Good luck,

Nony

hamza

Thanks all. Since the event happnened, the GF and I have had a couple of face-to-face meetings. They have been good I think because they have provided an opportunity for her to hear what happened during her blackout and for me to tell her how I feel about what happened. And also to discuss issues in the relationship leading up to this that we weren't dealing with. Which, by the way, seems to be the main concern of her therapist rather than the drinking. But after much thought I have come to realize that the drinking problem is what got us to this place, that I am coping with damage caused by her drinking. And I haven't confronted her with that realization yet. Since we are both dealing with our feelings openly and honestly it seems like I should tell her this, without making any demands on her. Just to say "This is what i am dealing with now and the bottom line is your drinking problem." Period. No debates.

Does this seem reasonable?

-hamza

CarolD

Hmmm... I think you are not being reasonable by hanging on to a toxic woman.

Please read...."Co Dependent No More" by Beattie for insite.

Take care of YOU....Blessings

pmaslan

I have found there is not reasoning with an active alcoholic.....

bikewench

Well..
seeing as I'm one to give a person as many chances as I'd like to have to get it right...
being an addict and all.. ;o)

and being one that believes that honesty... openness... and sometimes it just being the right moment...
well.. that that can sometimes reach someone...

I wholehearedly agree with detaching from the behaviors...

From the text of ACOA...
"What you do is not a reflection on me.."

now.. that is detachment.

Being able to love the human... but detach from the situation...


But..
that takes understanding addiction and codependancy.

There are no hard and fast answers...
even the ones that tell you to run.

just keep being honest to yourself about what;s going on and keep reading.. ;o)

reader

Welcome Hamza, I see alot of redflags!! I use to sing in a band and play drums so I know the lifestyle around her life, as well as having been a bartender. I think she will probably not quit drinking. It would be nice if she did but only she can change her life. You can choose not to be apart of it but usally ultimatums don't work. Binge drinkers can indeed be alcoholics. It sounds to me like she has not hit her bottom yet. All I can suggest is you can make boundries and stay involved with her or walk. Loving someone is usally not enough to make them quit. Keep coming back, we all have alot to learn from each other. You are not alone though!!!!!!!

jherzanek

How long can she go with "controlled drinking"? Is this a problem for her? If so, how long can you live with that? This problem can drag out for years, or you can help her to "see the light". The choice is yours. You may have to step back. That doesn't mean you are giving up on her.

lizw

As a sober alcoholic, I have had two relationships with other sober alcoholics/addicts. One prior to Al Anon and one that sent me to Al Anon, where I have stayed ever since. I think it is 5 years now.

I wanted to say that soberity in any alcoholics life isn't a cure all for everything. I think, as I did before Al Anon, I had the belief that if my partner would just (fill in the blank) I would be happy. What I learned in Al Anon is that I am responsible for my own happiness and I have also learned I like myself enough to not live with or be with someone who wants to abuse me, regardless of the reason. I.e. bad childhood etc...

However I am of the opinion that there is always hope in any situation, maybe not for your relationship BUT for you and your own recovery, which is in my expereince, so far, 10x than any relationship I've ever had!!!

Barbara52

What a wonderful blanket excuse for bad behavior!

She is responsible for her behaviors, regardless of the whether or not she is an alcoholic. Courts sure don't excuse aDUI because it was the disease doing it!

Blacking out and not remembering the behavior doesn't mean it didn't happen and that the choice to drink is what contributed to the behavior.

Barbara52

You are in a rough position HAmza. Please take a look at yourself and figure out what you want in a relationship. Is what you have right now what you want in a relationship? Is being publically humilated,regardless of the excuse for it, part of your definition of what is part of a good, healthy relationship? Do you love her "as is" or do you love the potential woman rather than the reality? Are you prepared for a lifetime of dealing with her active alcoholism or potential recovery?

strongerwoman

Just making sure y'all know this thread is from 2005! Is the original poster still here? :o)

Pick-a-name

haha.....I did NOT notice that,but I still find the thread to be helpful!