needperspective

We only dated for 6 months, it’s been 5 weeks since she left me and I feel shattered still. I suspect she has issues with substances but I can’t wrap my head around everything that happened and need perspective

I’ll call her B. Brief overview, B and I met at work while both still in serious long-term relationships that were on the way out for different reasons. For hers, the fighting was too much for her, and mine was still very loving and caring but we’d lost passion for each other and felt like roommates/best friends.

B and I became friends first, going out drinking and doing drugs with friends. This was new behaviour for me but not for her. People close were shocked by my behaviour, I assured them she wasn’t a bad influence and I felt like I found a friend I could enjoy being out with (for months/years prior I’d go out with friends and leave early after a couple drinks). I very drunkenly and druggedly confessed my feelings to her after after a few weeks of this. She reciprocated, wanted to have sex etc. but I said it wasn’t an option. I told my partner the next day and she understood.

B broke up with her partner a couple weeks later. She’d been planning it before our confession. My partner and I broke up about 3 weeks later because we didn’t want to feel like roommates anymore — she said if I was happy with her I wouldn’t want someone else, and if she was happy with me she would’ve been hurt, but she wasn’t. My ex and I to this day remain best friends.

Within a week B and I are on a date, nearly blackout and on drugs. My partner and I still lived together at this time so I was staying at B’s for the night. B asked if I ever get tempted to have sex with my now ex being that we still share a bed, and I said no. She jokingly said she was over her ex but would definitely have to fight temptation if they were still sharing a bed. I laughed because I couldn’t relate, wasn’t jealous because it was our first date and knew if she wanted this ex she could have them.

Anyway, cue 6 months of chaos. Every week: go out Thursday, spend Friday hungover blowing off work (remote job so we’d log on and do nothing), go out Saturday or Sunday, she’d go home Monday morning. Nearly every minute we spent together was either drunk/drugged or hungover. I was having so much fun I didn’t realise how far off my usual lifestyle this was. Within two months I’d blown most my savings, had missed work regularly, avoided my friends to hang out with her (of my own volition), and made my house a more chaotic place for my roommates. Family called concerned that they thought I was using drugs, I got defensive and avoidant. I was so “happy” I couldn’t see what a mess I’d made of my life. B got in massive, nearly relationship-ending fight with her family she lives with when they were concerned about her drug use, I didn’t realise how abnormal it was so defended and enabled her through it all.

In the beginning neither wanted anything serious due to just being out of relationships and not knowing each other that well. As things developed we began to say we loved each other (drunk), we went on a trip together, talked about our future etc. but we both felt no need to put a label on it.

After a couple months of us seeing each other, B and her ex met for closure drinks at the ex’s request. They had been no contact. She was supposed to come to mine after but texted and said she was going home because it was an emotional evening, which was fine. The next time we met, B said the ex was doing a lot better, B had even told the ex about us and the ex didn’t really care. A couple months later B said that after they decided to go home they changed their minds and decided to get another drink. B had mentioned prior that when she has news she thinks will upset someone, she doesn’t like to sit them down and have a huge confrontation because it will make it seem like a bigger deal, instead she likes to drop it casually. When she revealed that they stayed out, I had a gut feeling that’s the method she was using in telling me that. I’m not the jealous type, I trusted her and I knew her feelings about this ex so I wouldn’t have been upset anyway.

There was another time she asked about my sex life with my ex and I said I didn’t want to talk about it because it could make her feel weird and was invasive of my ex’s privacy, and shes said “why? me and [ex] had amazing sex”. I told her I presumed as much since they’d been together years but I’d rather not hear things like that if I don’t ask specifically, and her excuse was of course she was drunk and it was stupid.

Things continued to develop between us but still with no label. A couple months after they’d seen each other for closure, B and I were laying in my bed as she showed me something on her phone, a suggestive text from her ex popped across the screen. She apologised and told me sometimes that ex does that and she ignores it. The conversation started with the ex saying “I miss you”, bringing up old memories and B responding “I miss you too” (as friends, which I get because I missed my ex’s friendship too), and then the ex said “I miss [lewd content]” which is miraculously the text I saw. I told her I understood but felt disrespected, I know B’s not responsible for this ex sending lewd content but she was entertaining it by engaging at all knowing how the ex will interpret it, and it was disrespectful to both me and ex. There was another time a few weeks prior she’d been at mine and the ex was texting her (I didn’t see the content) and she swore those were the only two times and I told her it was strange the only two times it happened were the two times I saw it. I don’t know why I didn’t end it there.

She said it’s hard because we don’t have a label and she doesn’t know which boundaries etc. so I said don’t play dumb, that her words and actions don’t line up and I couldn’t do this “no-label” thing anymore while she was initiating everything serious about us. She said this conversation made her feel closer to me and made everything feel more real and serious, but did warn me she can’t promise commitment because she wanted to move away soon but couldn’t lose me, so as soon as she decided when/where she was moving we’d figure out what was best for us but not to worry because nothing will change.

The next week, we were out one night and upon return to my house, she said “you know I’m it right, I’m the last person you’re gonna be with, you’re gonna end up with me”. I happily reciprocated. Once we got inside she said a mutual friend was asking about us earlier in the night and B told them we’re having fun but we agreed it’s not going anywhere. We got into an argument because I was so confused at the two opposite things she just said. I’ve rarely had fights like this in a relationship because I’ve never felt so sensitive to another person’s whims.

Her excuse for these mismatches is always that she was drunk and not making sense, but that’s where her explanations end. There’s no greater truth they point to. It was hard for me to know what was true because I could never tell when she was drunk. It was a running joke between us that there are only 3 times in the 6 months we spent getting messed up together that I could tell she was drunk. I hadn’t realised at the time but these mixed messages gave me severe anxiety, I’m on antidepressants/anxiety meds and was planning to call my doctor because I thought they’d stopped working.

Two weeks later, vibe felt off so I asked if she wanted to hang out sober, she it blew off. I saw her the next night, we drank, did drugs. When we left she told me she’d planned her move and our vibe felt weird, she didn’t feel right continuing, didn’t want to hold me back. Both sad but kept in regular contact because we really did become “best friends” over this time. The next day she asked me over to have sex, asked if we’ll ever have sex again etc. I didn’t because it was 5 in the morning on a Monday. After a few weeks I got to my anger phase, where I felt messed around. My self esteem took a massive blow because she chose to move away with a friend who has substance issues and treats her horribly, I felt awful that she’d choose that over me who she said made her feel so safe and like it was her first healthy relationship.

A month later I thought I moved on from the anger so we decided to meet up again. She cancelled on the planned Saturday because she was too hungover so we did Sunday. We grabbed some drinks and it was going really well. The drinking was on steroids this time. I participated too but I noticed she was drinking faster than usual and constantly, ordering the next round before the current one was finished, downing them in record time etc. but still seemed fine. I didn’t drink much at all for our month apart. My tolerance was really low and she said she hadn’t been going out but had been drinking in the house for the month.

After maybe 15 drinks we decided it was time to part. I don’t remember how but we ended up at my house because I had alcohol. As we’re drinking at my place she pulls out a bag of drugs for herself, this is at around 4-5 AM with work the next morning. I drunkenly partook, huge mistake. She got upset because a family member she lives with was sending her texts saying she knew B was at my house and she had no impulse control, lives a crazy life etc. Not the first time I’d seen this, so I was comforting her and defending her in her ear, reminding her we’re just chatting and we’re not doing anything crazy (haha). She lied and said she was with another friend. I was worried this person texting her thought I was some horrible influence or we were having sex, and told her to just tell the person we’re just catching up (truth as I had no intentions to have sex). I couldn’t understand the big deal. As I was saying these things in her ear about how these people in her life have her all wrong, and she confessed to me that the reason this person was saying all this is that she had sex with the aforementioned ex two days prior, the night before we were originally supposed to meet that she was so hungover she couldn’t.

I was furious that she told me, not that she did it, but we had spent the whole night sharing about what a hard month it’s been. She told me she felt so guilty that I was being so sweet and she couldn’t sit with it. She felt like she cheated so she had to tell me, but when I got upset she said in the next breath “why are you angry, we’re not together I can do what I want”. She called herself an ******* then when I was upset said she wouldn’t care if I’d done the same. I felt crazy. She said she was drunk and depressed and didn’t know why she did it and felt like **** after it, but it obviously felt like she’d been planning this the whole time. And earlier in that night she was saying she has no sexual drive anymore and wants to be alone for a while, said the ex has been a huge comfort, asked if I’ll be getting back with my ex and said absolutely not when I asked the same. The ability to lie so easily just makes me feel sick looking back. I just couldn’t fathom how someone could, I don’t know, sit on this “guilt” and seem completely normal. A side note I don’t care what she does but it was a sting to my ego after all she’s said about how crazy this ex is. For what it's worth the ex was never a subject of jealousy for me, it's just after she told me they slept together again I'm seeing all these past red flags as a bigger deal than I did at the time.

I had taken two opposite types of drug at this point as well as the dozen plus drinks and I went off on her, this rage I’ve never felt, I felt utter disgust and hatred for everything I’d been through and I blamed her. I realise now it was me who allowed my life to become this chaotic, apologised for the outburst after I realised I didn’t want to take responsibility. Someone close to me revealed she thinks B has a substance abuse issue (not the first person to tell me this), which made everything click. I couldn’t feel anger anymore. It finally makes sense why her actions make no sense. When I told her how sorry I was for blaming her for the chaos in my life, she told me she can’t stop once she starts and doesn’t even feel embarrassed anymore after a night out. Now that the dust has settled I do still have some anger that I really want to work through, I’m tired of this.

I guess there are a lot of other tip offs in hindsight that she has an unhealthy relationship with substances that I didn’t really get into. Once I realised I’d probably been dealing with a possible alcoholic, I felt calm because I finally realised why it won’t ever make sense. But I feel angry again a few days out and like I still love her even after everything. I guess I am just looking for some tough love about this, some perspective, because my self esteem has never been lower.

trailmix

hi needperspective. Well, that's quite the 6 months.

She is addicted to who knows what, alcohol, the other drugs, both? Her life is chaos, she's also a liar and she takes what she likes from other people.

I hope now that this particular party is over you can just look back on it as a not-so-good interlude in your life and move past it. Look at her lifestyle, is that something you want or need? You're also not immune to addiction.

You mentioned taking an antidepressant/anxiety medication. Well alcohol is a depressant and anxiety after use it not unusual for many. The drugs can't be very effective when you pile others on top.

She's a liar and you actually can't believe anything she says. Even if she says she was just out shopping, was she? So trust is a huge issue here and how can you even have a friend in her if you can't trust anything she says?

I'm sorry your self-esteem took a big hit, but really it was never about you. She is a mess. Her one alliance is to her drugs, not to you, not to the ex, or anyone else she chooses to be part of her dramatic world. She is just floating along on her own cloud.

Alcoholism and other addictions are progressive, as you have seen by the amounts she drinks/uses. The is not a zero effect situation. How she is today is not how she will be 6 months or a year from now.

Hold on to that anger for a while. Make a list of all the terrible things about this relationship, the lies and the dysfunction and refer to it often. You are actually lucky you escaped, it won't feel like it right now, you are hurt, but give yourself time to heal, to ask yourself what you were doing and also if that is a lifestyle you would really choose.

needperspective

Hello, thank you so much for your response, it’s been a lonely time despite this being the first time I really reach out to all my friends and family and even professionals for support.

I do look back at the past 6 months with horror and have made amends to my housemates and friends for who I became. There was a few-week period where I kept drinking but stopped taking drugs because I didn’t like the feeling anymore, and B marvelled at how I was able to just stop. After we met up again I’m not sure why I took them, but now have sworn them off forever and have no difficulty with that, only joy and freedom. I really was amazed during this whole 6 months how I could drink so much and do so many drugs with no apparent consequences, but it all happened sorta slowly from the inside and now I can see how dire the consequences were for me and can imagine how much worse they’d have gotten.

It’s hard to view her as someone who takes what she wants, and I don’t know why. She doesn’t always seem that way, and it’s hard to admit to myself I was so wrong about her, or ignored all my quiet gut feelings along the way.

The minute we broke up my anxiety dissipated. Turned into sadness sure but I’d take that 100% of the time, for myself at least.

Lack of trust is what I’m feeling now, I really don’t believe a word she says when we talk as friends. I can tell she is trying to be extra reassuring regarding her whereabouts but I really don’t care and don’t believe it anyway. It’s hard to let go of her as a friend and I do feel really guilty at the thought of it but I know I need to put myself first. I don’t even fear her getting back with her ex because I know her ultimate loyalty is to herself and her problems.

My self esteem is slowly healing as I read about the effects one’s addiction, no matter if they’re just flirting with it or deep in it, can have on the way they treat other people. This will take some time though for me to stop tying to much of my self worth to her. I’m terrified to think of what will happen to her if she gets worse, I can only hope she’ll get better and I’m trying to let go of the hope that she’ll change anything for me. It’s very hard.

Thank you for advising me to hang on to the anger, I feel so guilty having it because I know she’s not evil but I can’t let it go for today. She says she’s not angry so why should I be, so I feel stupid like I’m taking longer to get over the break up than she is. I am very hurt but I know logically how lucky I am that she ended things.

Thank you again.

trailmix

I'm sorry, I actually laughed when I read this part. She isn't angry so why should you be. This makes exactly zero sense. Zero. She isn't feeling whatever way, so why would you? Maybe because you aren't her? Maybe because you don't spend every day in a cloud of drugs dampening down your feelings?

The whole ex boyfriend, text thing is and was manipulative. It very much sounds like a set up to make you see how desirable she is. She has more problems than just addiction, but you have probably already realized that.

Not speaking with her anymore would really be to your benefit, if for no other reason than the reminder of all of this. Again, it was a rough patch in your life. You realize you need to look out for yourself (that's huge!)

She has given no indication she wants to quit all the drugs, but let's say she did, let's say she calls you and says, I'm done, going to rehab. Then what? You don't actually know her as a sober person, she probably doesn't know herself. And that's just the very early part. Putting the drugs down is a start, but then there is recovery from everything that put her there in the first place. That could take years.

Also maybe think about what you do want in your life. A wife? Children? Happiness?

What were you up to before you met her? If that wasn't all that fulfilling, time to look further afield? Get involved in other things? She may have filled a temporary void in your life, but that's about it. You deserve a partner that will treat you with respect and kindness.

needperspective

Thank you again. I know you’re so right, a lot of the times when I was upset or something I was met with defensiveness. She operates on “logic” rather than emotion but I think she forgets that’s not how other people’s emotions work. Like once my ex came to pick up some things and when I told B, she was upset and hurt that I didn’t tell my ex we’d been seeing each other due to sensitive timing. We had a mature and loving conversation about it, but this was months before her ex texted her the sexual comment, and part of her defense was “I told ex we’re seeing each other, what did I do wrong?” she operates on logic but her logic makes no sense to me most of the time.

I don’t believe she set the text thing up on purpose so I’d see it but maybe didn’t block the ex because she liked the ego boost. If it really seemed that “unhinged” and made her that uncomfortable, why not block your ex? She said it was out of guilt she didn’t block, but I told her it was weird she had no guilt towards me that she’d be laying in bed next to me seeing these texts. And I’d tell her immediately if my ex had EVER done something similar (she never would) so we could talk about how weird it was, but the only reason I found out is it came across the screen as she showed me something. So shady, but I loved her so much and saw good sides so it was hard to believe she had any sinister intention.

There’s nothing she could do or say to make me actually want her back. I still love her but I know we’re not a match at all. I definitely want happiness and a stable, loving, relationship one day. It’s just hard to picture who it will be with when you still love someone else. This is the first breakup I’ve had where I hadn’t felt like the relationship had naturally run its course but instead ended to external factors.

I was plenty happy before her, don’t know why I allowed myself to get swept up in the chaos. I was just captivated and honestly a bit addicted to her I think. That will take some time to get over.

trailmix

Yes, it will take time.

Because this is another lie, or a not clear way of thinking. This is typical in addiction. So she deals in "logic" when it serves HER - like when you are upset and when her ex texts her inappropriately - but as you mentioned, she manages to muster up some emotion - guilt for her ex.

No, she didn't time you viewing the texts, yes, it is an ego boost and you seeing it was just a bonus.

You're right, you can't make sense of this nonsense - because it is nonsense. Sometimes when in a dysfunctional relationship, especially one where it burns so bright for a short period of time, the nuances of right and wrong, real and not, lies and truth get put to the side as you forge along.

You mention external factors, but are they really. She is who she is and that is an addict. She isn't "good" and "bad", she isn't "sober" and "not sober", she is all those things.

Oh and even when addicts have some clarity, when they have been sober for a little while, a day or two, that's not real sobriety. The physical changes in the brain don't heal that fast.
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​​​​​​​Please give yourself a lot of credit for getting out of this. Your clear thinking about that will serve you really well.

jagrnaut

Definitely count your blessings brother. I have had a number of friends who fell down the rabbit hole with girls like that. My cousin in fact died due to doing drugs with a girl that was very similar and very manipulative. In fact in the end she wouldn't allow him to talk to anyone and the drugs had such a grip that he listened and turned away from everyone that loved him. If it were me, I would take it as a gift, and you will find someone that amplifies your life. From reading your story, you definitely sound like someone with a good head on his shoulders. A woman like that is going to drag you down, and I have been there with the cheating stuff that never gets better. Once that trust evaporated for me, I never trusted her again no matter how much time passed. Just be glad you didn't have kids with her and all of the chaos that would follow. I wish you the best of luck buddy, and as Trailmix has said many times be so thankful that you can distance yourself from a person that only has her own selfish self-destructive interests at heart.

needperspective

Wanted to thank you all for your words. I've taken some space from her and it's helped me see even more clearly. What we had was pure dysfunction and bound to implode at some point. I finally feel free from loving her and am now entirely indifferent to whether she's in my life despite wanting the best happiness for her.

I've also identified something I need in a friendship or relationship. I don't care how messy you think you seem in your motives, but if you're dishonest then you're out. It's ok to hurt me because it's a part of life, but "I'm sorry I was drunk" is not an apology, there's no self reflection, self awareness, empathy or humility in that which is what I feel people deserve in an apology when I've wronged them. I can't trust her, not just because she lies, but because I have no idea who she really is and what her values are. Feeling no guilt at getting sexts from your ex while laying next to me while we're dating, but then feeling guilty for sleeping with them after we've broken up? I can't see a consistent moral code behind that. The only two possible conclusions here are that our moral compasses are oppositely oriented and we're bound to hurt each other even as friends, or she's not being entirely honest in her reasons (either she doesn't know her own reasons or she's withholding), and I can't know her. Whichever of those are true, it's not someone healthy to have in my life. The longer I have her in my life the less I feel like I have a clear picture of who she is and what her moral compass is. Actually the longer I have her in my life the more clearly I see her motive for her actions are "do what feels good to me at exactly this moment, hide it, and give a dismissive 'sorry' when it's found out."

If she'd said her motive for both of those things was an ego boost, I'd understand and respect the honesty and self awareness, and it would be consistent. I'd even relate. Or if she'd said the reason for both of them was that she was never sure about me and always pined for the ex, I'd wouldn't even be shocked or mad anymore, I'd still respect the self awareness and honesty and accept it because it happens. But her method of taking accountability is throwing things at the wall to see what sticks, and it may work in the moment but over time it doesn't add up. It's this weird mix of I cannot predict at all how she'll act in a situation, but nothing she does can shock or hurt me anymore.

Due to circumstances we have to stay cordial for the next couple of months before she leaves forever, so I'm just keeping her at arms length. Never expecting a real apology because I don't think she's capable, but I'm more than okay with that.

Thank you guys so much again, I'm gonna stick around this forum because I am learning a lot and it's set me free from this whole thing. Thanks.

Eauchiche

Well, brother, welcome to the real world.
Every successful long-term marriage I ever heard of ends up where they are best friends. The passion died away as they aged.

You violated your own standards and went down a rabbit hole with an addict. If this is what you want in life, then you are going about it the right way.

I didn't really read the rest of your posts, because to me, they are symptoms. I realize I won't win any popularity contests by being so blunt.

Bekindalways

Hey Needperspective, I'm super glad you found us. It does sound like you have been on an interesting and painful ride.

"Never expecting a real apology because I don't think she's capable,"

This is super wise of you. Addicts don't really function like non-addicts. They aren't really capable of relationships. I always think trying to have a relationships with an addict is like trying to waltz with someone having a seizure. It just doesn't work. Also addiction is progressive so you likely have known this woman at the best she will ever be going forward.

Be as kind to yourself as possible as you may have some grieving of this relationship and rebuilding of your life.

Huge kudos for getting off this train wreck. Let us know how you do going forward.

needperspective

I get it. I'm in my 20s; my ex and I weren't married and are young enough that we felt like we didn't need to be at a stage where we felt like best friends and wanted to both explore and learn. I'm not holding out hope that I'll ever be in a relationship where the passion doesn't eventually die, and I look forward to the closeness and security that comes at the expense of that, because I've felt it to some degree. It was a gift while we had it, just neither of us wanted it anymore at this stage in our lives.

I did violate my own standards because at the time they weren't my standards. My priority was have fun, be reckless and have a fiery passionate relationship because I was tired of having the opposite and felt I was missing out. I just so happened to chase that experience with who I now can see is an addict, which I couldn't recognise at the time. After it crashed and burned I developed those standards. So yes in hindsight I did violate what are now my standards, but that's how I developed them in the first place. Now by experiencing what I definitely don't want, I'm much closer to knowing what I do want.

I know my posts are quite long so don't expect many people to get through all of them, so no worries. I appreciate bluntness and it's what I came here for. But if you did read them you'd know it's not at all what I want in life, I've cut it off and changed my behaviour, and I'm not sure how my words come across as symptoms when you haven't read them. I think replies can only be as valuable your level of understanding of what you're replying to.

needperspective

Thanks so much for your encouragement. I'm definitely done grieving it as now I just see it as a dysfunctional involvement with a person I was never compatible with. Getting past that idea that it was some great love lost helped loads. Now I'm rebuilding by reconnecting with friends, family, hobbies, and going to therapy again. I'll definitely stick around because this is heavy on my mind, and I hope I can offer you some encouragement some day the same you've done for me!

Eauchiche

Fair enough.
maybe it’s just my age. I’m 64. I think foundations are so important in life and I don’t really get bogged down in details.
I ask young friends whether it’s better to find their wife in church or in a bar. Maybe you see what I mean?
After you find her, let your passions play out with a vengeance. But, you will need the foundation of being best friends if you want the marriage to last 50 years.

needperspective

Yeah, I definitely see what you mean, and thanks so much for your perspective. Per my username it's exactly what I wanted I'm working on making my posts less wordy hahaha.

I think I don't have enough experience yet, well definitely didn't at the time I met this person, to have that perspective, but I want to lead my life with it moving forward. Also need to work on seeing a person for exactly who they show themselves to be, rather than my idealised version. Lots of work to do before I'm ready for any relationship again, but I really appreciate your perspective and advice, and I feel open to moving forward with an outlook like yours. Thanks again!

Eauchiche

I REALLY admire you for your goals at this point. I hope we can all be here to support you as needed!!!