"Get sober or get out" does it work?

Old 07-08-2002, 09:54 PM
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Red face "Get sober or get out" does it work?

Thanks again for the welcomes elsewhere. Does anyone have any experience with an ultimatim? Have you ever told your A, "Get sober or get out" and if so, did you get results either way? I'm grappling with this now. In my case it is going to be a logistical nightmare -- we are in business together (although it's my business and I'm the breadwinner) and have tons of complicated paperwork. I've been watching the finances and so far all seems to be in order, but I worry that he'll neglect something important and create havoc.

If he doesn't opt for recovery, I want to mean what I say. However, I need to be prepared. Everything we have is jointly held. I'm wondering if I should create an account in my name solely prior to taking this step, or wait? I can't imagine that he would do anything malicious, but he's a different person when he drinks, so I can't be 100 percent sure.

Advice, discussion, input welcome!
marie
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Old 07-08-2002, 10:06 PM
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Hi Marie....
You sound just like me....although I have just about passed the I care point...infact I have.
We too have a business...go see your lawyer and talk to him ASAP! Different states have different laws...it is good to get advice. I have been twice already.
I have given my A the ultimatum so many times...he is not ready to give up the drinking.
Good luck Marie
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Old 07-08-2002, 10:08 PM
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Hi Marie

Ultimatums rarely work, neither does negotiating, crying, yelling, or manipulating. Try it, if you will feel better, but if he ignores the request, plan what you will do.

Plan ahead, see your lawyer about the legal aspects, and prepare yourself for the fireworks. And if you can protect your money, by all means do so...you kow how quickly they can move.

My thoughts and prayers are with you.
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Old 07-08-2002, 10:32 PM
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Hi Marie

An Ultimatum might work for a short time, but if he doesn't quit because he wants to for himself, he will drink again. So I think that you should take your time and have a well thought out plan before you make a decision.

You can always go back later if he is doing well and is well into his recovery. You can't change him, but you can plan your own life and do what is best for you.

Hugs,

MG
 
Old 07-09-2002, 06:34 AM
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My main thought here is to say what you mean and mean what you say...If you throw out an untimatum be prepared to back it up because if you don't you loose credibilty.

If you are considering leaving him, by all means be prepared. Right now you may trust him, but faced with loosing you who knows what he will resort to.
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Old 07-09-2002, 08:19 AM
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Hi Marie

I used to try the ultimatiums all the time, they never worked and I always did back down. Now I stick to boundaries that I can control. I would have to agree it may work if you are willing to stick by it. Maybe before you say, "Stop or get out", you might want to say, "Stop or we are going to have discuss the options, one of which is you leaving".

Hope things work out for you.

Many hugs.
Love,
Debbie
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Old 07-09-2002, 08:49 AM
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HI Marie!

Like all who have posted already, I don't have a lot of faith in the power of the ultimatum. I used them, and got some temporary results, but nothing substantial or lasting. If you truly feel that he needs to sober up or get out of your life... get set up for getting him out of your life. Make your plan down to the finest details, all ready to set in motion. You may find that having this ready escape route makes him somewhat more tolerable. There's nothing worse than feeling stuck, and nothing more empowering than knowing you have real options.

Hugs!
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Old 07-09-2002, 09:03 AM
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Marie -

My name is Pauline, and I'm an addict. I come around the Anon boards and get inspiration from these wonderful women here. I read your post and hope you don't mind if I reply.

Everything that has been posted as responses is true. Let me tell you from the addict point of view. Untimatums will do nothing. They may fix the situation temporarily, but when given an ultimatium the A usually gets clean for someone else, not for themselves, and that does not work. I have heard this story over and over again in meetings. How the A was given an ultimatum and it worked but only temp because the A was not doing it for themselves but for the other person.

Take care of yourself first and pray for your A that is all that you can do. Take care of yourself first I cannot stress that enough to you. I have been bless by the grace of God to have almost 7 years clean, but I do it one day at a time, and for myself, not for anyone else. All I have is today, I was blessed to have yesterday, but do I have tomorrow, I don't know? Your A only has today too, using or not, what tomorrow will bring only God knows. And you have today for you!!!

I will keep you and your A in my prayers.
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Old 07-09-2002, 01:45 PM
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Marie
There isn't much left to say that the others haven't said. Just know that YOU come first. See your lawyer before you make amy decisions.

(((Marie)))
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Old 07-09-2002, 08:59 PM
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get sober/get out

Thanks everyone, especially to Pauline for a very brave and honest post. You all sound so calm! And knowledgeable. "Call your lawyer" is an alien concept to me. I've never had a lawyer, never needed one, other than to incorporate and that was just filling out forms.

But I was thinking about this today and I realize we have so much to lose, and so much is at risk. All our assets. With our daughter going off to the financial hemorrhage of a 4-yr private college, we are going to have to be conservative.

My husband is so different now, so unpredictable, that I really feel I have to do something to protect my future. So I found a couple of local attys in the Yellow Pages (is that foolish or valid?) and will phone them tomorrow. Also tomorrow I will open a bank acct in my own name and stuff it to the gills.

This is prob a question for the atty, but if my A gets in huge trouble (like if he gets in a wreck and gets sued), how much am *I* liable for?

thanks,
marie
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Old 07-09-2002, 09:34 PM
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I'm not sure, but I think you are liable. If they sue, they would count all the assests. I'm not sure though so asking the lawyer is a good thing.

Maybe you can set up your new bank account so that it can't be touched. Ask the bank. Maybe some kind of trust account.

You are really doing well with your plan.

Hugs,

MG
 
Old 07-10-2002, 07:27 AM
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Marie -

I don't know anything about the law, but I do also believe that while you are married you are liable for anything that happens.

Make your calls, ask questions. And as we say in the program "hold on to your a** it may be a bumpy ride". You have support, fellowship is so important.

Just for today!!!
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Old 07-11-2002, 03:35 PM
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Hi Marie,

As you can see, I am "brand spanking new here", but wanted to add a little bit.

It seems pretty unanimous here that the ulitmatum does not work.
So what choice or action does that leave you????

I have not given an altimatum as such, but have informed my b/f that I will not be in a relationship with an alcoholic, as that was the reason that I left the previous two men (one a fiance). He understands and knows this.

He is aware that he has only so many chances. I have been patient and supportive. I moved out in April and now live on my own. We had broken up, but agreed to get back together in a keyed down relationship with counselling. Of course we cannot afford the counselling that we need, so although things are better, the drinking has never been too far away either.

Well, he used up his last chance on Tuesday night. We both knew that this was the end. We are giving it ONE more go, but he made me promise to leave him if he took another drink. He will also go into rehab if he drinks again and knows tthat I will not be there any longer. This is serious to him. This is real and has caused him to take serious action including steps 4 and 5.

I realize that we only have a small chance here, but the point is, your A must have some awareness of your limit so that he has a bottom doesn't he?

What has transpired on this regard? Does he know that you are so close to leaving him? My own father actually responded to my mothers warning/ threat/ ultimatum years ago. It took him 2 years and he fell down twice for one night only, but he did go to AA and recovered.

I am sorry if I rambled.

AG
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Old 07-11-2002, 03:50 PM
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Hence my comment.."Say what you mean and mean what you say".

And WELCOME Action Girl!!!

Accepting the unacceptable is what we do for far too long...when you have a handle on exactly what you will accept and what you wll not it all becomes black and white.
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Old 07-11-2002, 05:37 PM
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Thanks to all for the support. I am trying to position myself for the next step. After many yrs of a very happy and passionate marriage, I'm stunned to find myself in this place. But now I see that drinking takes its toll, even on a powerful love. If I put up with it, the love that remains will erode, and I'd rather take action now, while there's still a chance for recovery and healing, not just for us as individuals but as a couple and family.

Looking back, I realize nothing I've said to my husband has been real and concrete in terms of consequences. He always had faith that he would sober up and carry on, and it did work that way, rather well as a matter of fact. But this seems to be a new stage (I'll start a new thread on that if it's ok). He is unpredictable and driving, which is new. Therefore it's clear to me that I have to protect myself, my daughter and my future.

So here's what I've done--opened 2 accts at a new bank in my name only. I'm blessed to have the means to do this.

I've also made an appt to meet with a lawyer tomorrow. I want to know how I can best protect my assets in case something awful happens.

This is VERY new behavior for me, and when I tell my husband the steps I've taken, he might opt to go into recovery. Or not. I pray it's the former, but if not, I'm prepared to go this alone.

marie
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Old 07-13-2002, 11:55 AM
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Marie,

I was thinking of you, wondering how it went.

Please let us know if you talked to him and what his reaction was. :council:

We are here for you and care about you

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Old 07-13-2002, 01:06 PM
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how it went

Thank you for thinking of me, AG!

I found a lawyer, a fairly nice unassuming woman who seems to have experience in this area, and she is doing a "separation of assets" agreement which we will both sign. It spells out what his, mine and ours. I spent all afternoon yesterday sorting through what's what.

She suggested taking him off the auto and health policy--he'll have to get his own. I like that--taking resp for his own health and safety.

I told him this morning what was going on. He was furious, betrayed, humiliated, saddened--you name it. He claimed he was going to get help as soon as our company from out of town left, and by not waiting and giving him a chance, I betrayed him. I held firm, though, and kept saying "This is the way things are going to be until you get better."

He's still furious and, I fear, secretly drinking. So it's a mixed bag. I feel marginally better, and his consciousness is at least raised.
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Old 07-13-2002, 03:41 PM
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Hi Marie!

Don't listen to the "you didn't give me a chance" spiel. Wasn't that chance number 5672? The betrayal is on his end, not yours. There's no good reason for you to wait for a crisis to start arranging for your and your children's safety. That would be like putting on the brakes after you already collided with the car in front of you.

Good for you for taking the steps you have!

Hugs,
Smoke
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Old 07-13-2002, 04:25 PM
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Thank you, Smoke, I needed to hear that just now. He's so angry, and I catch myself falling into the "maybe I should have waited X more days..." thinking.

I think the loneliness is getting to me. I'm not just losing my husband but my best friend.

Sorry for the whining. Here's a thought for the day:

The hardest years in life are those between ten and seventy.
-Helen Hayes (at 73)

or if that's too depressing:

I refuse to think of them as chin hairs. I think of them as stray
eyebrows.
-Janette Barber-
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Old 07-13-2002, 04:31 PM
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Hey Marie : )
I know this is hard...my A is acting "nice" as we speak and it is when they do you have to wonder is all of this worth it? The splitting up etc. . I am reading a a good book right now and I will post this for you later...duhhhh I can recall the name as my husband bought it ...he was going to join one of those "mens groups" like healing hearts or something. Anyway this is a good read for us!
I will be in the same boat with you on Tuesday my appt. is at two.

Love....
Kitty
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