Why do I feel this way? Trying to figure out lingering effects of close association with alcoholic
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Why do I feel this way? Trying to figure out lingering effects of close association with alcoholic
Hi everyone,
I’m reacting strongly to a a bit of news (gossip really), and I can’t figure out why. I know it has something to do with having been married to alcoholic ex. Here we go:
Background: When Kid was an infant, we went to mom-and-baby yoga. I hit it off with another mom-and-baby. Let’s call the mom Ms A. Ms A was married to Mr A. Mr and Ms A became couple-friends of me and ex. In the dying years of my marriage, ex and Mr A played on the same bowling team and were dude-buddies. I hung out with Ms A, our toddlers played together, etc.
When I left ex, Mr and Ms A ended up on his side of the great divorce divide. I was sorry not to see more of Ms A. Ex and Mr A continued as bowling buddies. When ex remarried, he and now-ex-wife-#2 (let’s call her X2) were couple-friends with the A’s.
Fast-forward a few years. Ex is now “out” as a raging alcoholic. X2 has left him. X2 and I have become friends (weird but true). I haven’t seen Ms A for a few years. I overlap a bit in work circles with Mr A. In the last few months, Mr A has become much friendlier, to the point of asking me to work with him on a big and very professionally interesting project. (I have seen this before - friends of X’s who were standoffish with me suddenly decide they need to be really nice to me once they figure out that X is nuts and that what he was telling them about me wasn’t true, and they feel bad about it). So I figured that was the story with Mr A - he had the aha moment with ex).
X2 is also very friendly - wants to go out for coffee, talk about her life, etc. This is fine with me because I actually quite like X2 as a person, independent of both being married to the same alcoholic.
Today I learned from a friend of X2’s (let’s call her FX2), who also works in my department (I know this sounds like a very small town but believe me, it’s a city of over a million) that ... Mr A has left Ms A and is now dating X2. FX2 says X2 and Mr A are keeping it on the down-low for now and they don’t want people to know about it because it looks bad. Apparently Mr A provided emotional support for X2 while she was divorcing ex, and one thing led to another ...
This whole thing makes me feel very weird and somehow responsible. If I hadn’t become friends with Ms A all those years ago, Mr A would never have met X2 when she was married to my ex, and he wouldn’t have dumped his wife for Ms A after he left my ex. I know this is illogical - I didn’t hook up Mr A and X2, these are all adults here - but I still feel like I need to apologize to Ms A for bringing harm to her marriage. I know this makes no sense.
And I will now have to work with Mr A, knowing that he’s got a thing going on with X2 and that I am not supposed to know about it. And I have to wonder if his friendliness towards me is because I was married to the same person as his current girlfriend as well as being friends with his ex-wife and so he needs to get me “on side”.
So I am feeling:
1) irrationally guilty about inadvertently being a home-wrecker for the A’s.
2) irrationally angry with X2 and Mr A, I think because I really identify with Ms A in this situation (mistreated and dumped by husband).
3) irrationally self-pitying, because when I left ex I didn’t have an emotional-support/knight-in-shining-armour to help me through a much more difficult process involving a child and 25 years together, so why does she get to have this help while I had to struggle through on my own? Poor me!
None of this makes sense. All of it is tied to the aftereffects of feeling overly responsible for, and emotionally abused by, a manipulative alcoholic. I’m constantly alert to dysfunction and being around other people’s crises that overlap with mine makes me hypervigilant. If anybody has any insight, or thoughts, I’d be happy to hear them!
I’m reacting strongly to a a bit of news (gossip really), and I can’t figure out why. I know it has something to do with having been married to alcoholic ex. Here we go:
Background: When Kid was an infant, we went to mom-and-baby yoga. I hit it off with another mom-and-baby. Let’s call the mom Ms A. Ms A was married to Mr A. Mr and Ms A became couple-friends of me and ex. In the dying years of my marriage, ex and Mr A played on the same bowling team and were dude-buddies. I hung out with Ms A, our toddlers played together, etc.
When I left ex, Mr and Ms A ended up on his side of the great divorce divide. I was sorry not to see more of Ms A. Ex and Mr A continued as bowling buddies. When ex remarried, he and now-ex-wife-#2 (let’s call her X2) were couple-friends with the A’s.
Fast-forward a few years. Ex is now “out” as a raging alcoholic. X2 has left him. X2 and I have become friends (weird but true). I haven’t seen Ms A for a few years. I overlap a bit in work circles with Mr A. In the last few months, Mr A has become much friendlier, to the point of asking me to work with him on a big and very professionally interesting project. (I have seen this before - friends of X’s who were standoffish with me suddenly decide they need to be really nice to me once they figure out that X is nuts and that what he was telling them about me wasn’t true, and they feel bad about it). So I figured that was the story with Mr A - he had the aha moment with ex).
X2 is also very friendly - wants to go out for coffee, talk about her life, etc. This is fine with me because I actually quite like X2 as a person, independent of both being married to the same alcoholic.
Today I learned from a friend of X2’s (let’s call her FX2), who also works in my department (I know this sounds like a very small town but believe me, it’s a city of over a million) that ... Mr A has left Ms A and is now dating X2. FX2 says X2 and Mr A are keeping it on the down-low for now and they don’t want people to know about it because it looks bad. Apparently Mr A provided emotional support for X2 while she was divorcing ex, and one thing led to another ...
This whole thing makes me feel very weird and somehow responsible. If I hadn’t become friends with Ms A all those years ago, Mr A would never have met X2 when she was married to my ex, and he wouldn’t have dumped his wife for Ms A after he left my ex. I know this is illogical - I didn’t hook up Mr A and X2, these are all adults here - but I still feel like I need to apologize to Ms A for bringing harm to her marriage. I know this makes no sense.
And I will now have to work with Mr A, knowing that he’s got a thing going on with X2 and that I am not supposed to know about it. And I have to wonder if his friendliness towards me is because I was married to the same person as his current girlfriend as well as being friends with his ex-wife and so he needs to get me “on side”.
So I am feeling:
1) irrationally guilty about inadvertently being a home-wrecker for the A’s.
2) irrationally angry with X2 and Mr A, I think because I really identify with Ms A in this situation (mistreated and dumped by husband).
3) irrationally self-pitying, because when I left ex I didn’t have an emotional-support/knight-in-shining-armour to help me through a much more difficult process involving a child and 25 years together, so why does she get to have this help while I had to struggle through on my own? Poor me!
None of this makes sense. All of it is tied to the aftereffects of feeling overly responsible for, and emotionally abused by, a manipulative alcoholic. I’m constantly alert to dysfunction and being around other people’s crises that overlap with mine makes me hypervigilant. If anybody has any insight, or thoughts, I’d be happy to hear them!
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Sasha.....I do have some thoughts...lol...but, I doubt that you will take any comfort in them!
I suspect that the feelings of responsibility for people/situations that you may have no part in or control over, likely comes from seeds that were planted in your childhood---growing up. Planted by your caretakers and family of origin..and childhood circumstances....This is almost always the case....
Now...living with an addict or an abusive situation is just like pouring alcohol on an already existing fire---the baggage that you brought to your adult life....
What may have served you well, and allowed you to survive, when you were small, may not work so well in adult life and relationships....(like your over-responsibility, perhaps?)...while it is a great quality to be responsibe, it may be too exaggerated to be useful, for you, now....
I suspect that the feelings of responsibility for people/situations that you may have no part in or control over, likely comes from seeds that were planted in your childhood---growing up. Planted by your caretakers and family of origin..and childhood circumstances....This is almost always the case....
Now...living with an addict or an abusive situation is just like pouring alcohol on an already existing fire---the baggage that you brought to your adult life....
What may have served you well, and allowed you to survive, when you were small, may not work so well in adult life and relationships....(like your over-responsibility, perhaps?)...while it is a great quality to be responsibe, it may be too exaggerated to be useful, for you, now....
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So I am feeling:
1) irrationally guilty about inadvertently being a home-wrecker for the A’s.
2) irrationally angry with X2 and Mr A, I think because I really identify with Ms A in this situation (mistreated and dumped by husband).
3) irrationally self-pitying, because when I left ex I didn’t have an emotional-support/knight-in-shining-armour to help me through a much more difficult process involving a child and 25 years together, so why does she get to have this help while I had to struggle through on my own? Poor me!
1) irrationally guilty about inadvertently being a home-wrecker for the A’s.
2) irrationally angry with X2 and Mr A, I think because I really identify with Ms A in this situation (mistreated and dumped by husband).
3) irrationally self-pitying, because when I left ex I didn’t have an emotional-support/knight-in-shining-armour to help me through a much more difficult process involving a child and 25 years together, so why does she get to have this help while I had to struggle through on my own? Poor me!
2) Why is this anger irrational? Of course you're furious. You're angry at X2 because honestly she should know better than to jump into an affair with a married man and you're disappointed in her. You feel sympathy for Ms. A, because who wouldn't? As for Mr. A, I won't even go there. Honestly, I'm angry at them too and I don't even know them.
3) Would you have really wanted to have a knight in shining armor come to save the day if it meant compromising your own integrity? If it meant keeping things down low when you're trying to teach your daughter to live in truth? I know you're jealous, but what X2 has is no prize at all.
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Thanks! You both were able to to see things that were not apparent to me -
Yes, I do come from a family background where I was the designated ultra-responsible high-achieving “good one”. No addiction in the picture, but a sort of perpetual series of crises related to having one sibling with a life-threatening medical condition and another with major behavioural and conduct disorders (probably related to FAS - he was adopted, bio-mom was alcoholic). Plus parents who meant well but were really under-equipped to managed two very-special-needs kids. You can fill in the rest.
PH, you’re right - I am angry at X2. I want her to be a wonderful person who was unfortunately manipulated by ex, so she and I can be friends and it can be X2 and Sasha vs ex. When she’s revealed to have human flaws (getting together with Mr A), I feel angry (because that’s kinda sleazy) and disappointed (because neither of them is what I want them to be).
And yes, you’re also right - if the “rescue fantasy” involves hooking up with a married man, it’s not worth having. I’m overlooking the compromise in integrity and independence.
Thanks again!
Yes, I do come from a family background where I was the designated ultra-responsible high-achieving “good one”. No addiction in the picture, but a sort of perpetual series of crises related to having one sibling with a life-threatening medical condition and another with major behavioural and conduct disorders (probably related to FAS - he was adopted, bio-mom was alcoholic). Plus parents who meant well but were really under-equipped to managed two very-special-needs kids. You can fill in the rest.
PH, you’re right - I am angry at X2. I want her to be a wonderful person who was unfortunately manipulated by ex, so she and I can be friends and it can be X2 and Sasha vs ex. When she’s revealed to have human flaws (getting together with Mr A), I feel angry (because that’s kinda sleazy) and disappointed (because neither of them is what I want them to be).
And yes, you’re also right - if the “rescue fantasy” involves hooking up with a married man, it’s not worth having. I’m overlooking the compromise in integrity and independence.
Thanks again!
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,792
Dear Sasha
First of all, your labeling of the characters in this story is brilliant. For the first time in my life, I might be able to get a handle on Algebra!!!
Seriously, I am sorry about this situation.
Out of all the characters involved, are you the only one in recovery? If so, there other characters have been affected by alcoholism in varying degrees. No recovery causes some very strange behaviors.
Out of all the complications, the main point that jumps out at me, is that it sounds like you are losing a friend (X2). If she isn't close enough to even tell you about her love life, she is more distant than you realized.
The rest of your story sounds like one big jumbled mess. I have had to step away from other friendships that were not nearly so crazy just for my own sobriety.
First of all, your labeling of the characters in this story is brilliant. For the first time in my life, I might be able to get a handle on Algebra!!!
Seriously, I am sorry about this situation.
Out of all the characters involved, are you the only one in recovery? If so, there other characters have been affected by alcoholism in varying degrees. No recovery causes some very strange behaviors.
Out of all the complications, the main point that jumps out at me, is that it sounds like you are losing a friend (X2). If she isn't close enough to even tell you about her love life, she is more distant than you realized.
The rest of your story sounds like one big jumbled mess. I have had to step away from other friendships that were not nearly so crazy just for my own sobriety.
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Originally Posted by Eauchiche 
Dear Sasha
Out of all the complications, the main point that jumps out at me, is that it sounds like you are losing a friend (X2). If she isn't close enough to even tell you about her love life, she is more distant than you realized.
The rest of your story sounds like one big jumbled mess. I have had to step away from other friendships that were not nearly so crazy just for my own sobriety.
Out of all the complications, the main point that jumps out at me, is that it sounds like you are losing a friend (X2). If she isn't close enough to even tell you about her love life, she is more distant than you realized.
The rest of your story sounds like one big jumbled mess. I have had to step away from other friendships that were not nearly so crazy just for my own sobriety.
The metaphor that comes to mind (and I know this is kind of weird) is like being in Starbucks peacefully drinking my latte and someone I know slightly stops by my table and says, "Just so you know, there's a wasps' nest right outside the front door". If I am not allergic to wasps, I say "okay, thanks", and make a mental note to be careful not to bump into the nest when I leave.
However if I have been stung by a wasp before and had anaphylactic reactions, my response will be "AAUGH, wasps! What if they sting me? I feel like I'm hyperventilating already! Why are those wasps following me? Where's my Epi-Pen?" - etc.
Same Starbucks, same wasps doing their wasp things - the only difference is my own prior exposure to wasps (and for "wasps", read "addict and codependent drama").
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Here is my take, I just had a discussion about something similar with my adult child recently.
You are not responsible for anyone else's actions. We also have NO IDEA what is happening behind closed doors. Shut down gossip before you hear about it, and let people know you don't want to talk about such things.
Nothing good ever comes of gossip. And, getting yourself in the middle of things that are none of your business (and I say this gently) can only bring a bad reaction. Keep your focus on YOU and your own relationships and let other people do what they are going to do in their own lives.
That is just my two cents. My workplace is full of gossip, I have to really remind myself of these things all the time so I don't get involved.
You are not responsible for anyone else's actions. We also have NO IDEA what is happening behind closed doors. Shut down gossip before you hear about it, and let people know you don't want to talk about such things.
Nothing good ever comes of gossip. And, getting yourself in the middle of things that are none of your business (and I say this gently) can only bring a bad reaction. Keep your focus on YOU and your own relationships and let other people do what they are going to do in their own lives.
That is just my two cents. My workplace is full of gossip, I have to really remind myself of these things all the time so I don't get involved.
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hopeful4, you're right. I stay out of gossip as much as possible (and luckily my workplace is pretty low-drama). That's why my reaction to this surprised me - normally, tidbits about who's dating whom would be mildly interesting but not much more. That's why I had to really think about it, figure out what resonances or identifications with the past were being evoked here. The chaos of living with an alcoholic leaves a powerful imprint - I never want to go there again. (And yes, as far as I know, of all the cast of characters I am the only one who is part of a recovery program).
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I have to agree with you Sasha. I did not pay much attention to how much I was involved with idle gossip until I went through some very real recovery myself through therapy and such. I started realizing that is just not who I want to be, nor do I want it in my life, at all. I also think it's from having all of that chaos around me all the time. I moved on from that and want zero chaos.
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