snitch

There is a lovely Saturday meeting that is near my parents and I attend whenever I am staying at theirs. I love it. It is in a beautiful and peaceful room in a little church, the guy who takes the meeting is really lovely and welcoming and I get alot from the people who attend. They always have a chair person.
So today, the chair was slightly different to what I have experienced in AA so far. (I am 5 months sober.) He said he wasn't an alcoholic. He was a recovering alcoholic. Which is fine, I guess it is down to the individual how they see and describe themselves. Then he opened with "there isn't anything I can tell you about this programme. It really is simple. Don't drink one day at a time and go to meetings."
And that was all he said about AA! And a few times he repeated the same thing. "I can't tell you anything about this programme. Just don't drink one day at a time."
If it was that simple, why would we need a programme like AA?
I guess everyone gets sober how they get sober I just thought it was a bit strange to have someone chair a meeting who doesn't appear to have worked the steps or even recommend working the steps?
Any thoughts?

Ken33xx

The next time you go the meeting and the same person is chairing perhaps ask for clarification. I sometimes go to a hard core BB thumper meeting and members will sometimes end their share with, "But the bottom line is ... I don`t pick up a drink"

I think this is a popular way of emphasizing all is said and done if you did not pick up a drink that day then all is good. But I don`t often recall hearing members at other meetings share the AA program isn`t important or should be ignored.

Plenty of members who feel better because they take what they need from the AA program and attend meetings. Plenty of BB thumpers who swear by the 12 steps yet show the signs of a classic dry drunk. End of the day there is no right/wrong to get and stay sober in AA.

Personally I don`t care what someone shares but if one is going to bitch and moan bring it back towards a solution.

If one is going to share on a particular step talk about how it has worked or has been a problem for you.

Don`t simply share what you think others want to hear but share what is really going on.

Gottalife

Hi Snitch, on reading the content I thought you were quite moderate in your choice of title. I might have called it "Killer On The Loose!"

He is probably right saying he is not an alcoholic, but wrong to claim he is a recovering alcoholic in the AA context precisely because he is not following the program himself and is suggesting that everyone else can do the same thing.

Like you say, If I had the power to not drink one day at a time, I wouldn't need meetings. And the thing is most people I see relapsing are those not drinking one day at a time and going to meetings. It is a recipe for disaster for the real alcoholic. Really bad advice.

Unfortunately There are many in the fellowship just like him who found they could stop drinking without going to the lengths some of us had to go to, and they think everyone else should be able to do the same thing. Well, some of us can't and some of us die following that kind of advice.

Don't take it from me, take it from confernece approved litterature and the founder himself. "Sobriety, freedom from alcohol, though the teaching and practice of the twelve steps is the sole purpose of an AA group"

Just don't drink is one of the silliest utterances I hear round AA. The reason I came to AA was precisely because, no matter how hard I tried, I could not follow this "self evident" gem. I mean, don't drink was one of the first things I thought of, and I i could have done it I would have. But the fact was, like most alcholics, I had lost the power of choice in drink and I have yet to find in the Big Book where I get that power back. At certain times I was without defence, which means catagrically that "just don't drink" does not work.

Ken33xx

If it was a case of just don't drink than many people would not need AA. However, when I hear the phrase it is often within the context of a share.

A member goes on about a particular step or passage in the BB and adds "And I don't drink no matter what" This is a means of reinforcing the first step.

Where I find the phrase helpful is when I am going through a **rough patch. Did I pick up a drink today? No. Then I`m good and I still believe that.

Am I happy, joyous and free?

No but I am sober and reasonably content.

**2006 through 2010 was a horrible time financially. Some days all I had to hang onto was the fact I was sober. But as I mentioned sobriety was then and still is a big deal to me.

Ken33xx

Let me add:.

When I was in my first 30 days a visitor came to a meeting I was at. This fellow had recently celebrated 37 years. 37 years! I couldn't believe it. So I asked him after the meeting what is the key to staying sober? Give it to me in a nutshell I asked.

And he told me, "Those who stay sober are those who appreciate their sobriety."

This I found to be quite true over the years. Fail to appreciate your sobriety...

Well, good luck.

Eddiebuckle

My home group had a member who recently passed away with 40+ years sobriety. At some point in every one of his shares he would say "don't drink and go to meetings," and often added to that "more will be revealed." I do think that there is wisdom in this statement if the listener is also told to pick up the phone before you pick up a drink, get a temporary sponsor, etc.

As to the statement that chairperson made about ""I can't tell you anything about this programme" - I would take it up with the GSR for the group. If someone cannot tell anything about the program, they have no business chairing. I suspect our recently departed old timer would have raised his hand and suggested he find a chair at the other side of the room.

PhoenixJ

Heya GL. Most long term sober alcie's I know, and also me- say 'I am a recovering alcoholic' as opposed to 'I am a recovered alcoholic'. I will always be an alcoholic- because I can never drink. So since I can never fully recover from it and drink again- I am always recovering. Makes sense.

As to the one liners and clichés in AA- think of a soup stock...which is boiled down to a concentrate. That is what the one liner's are...a conclusion of a process, which sounds simple enough- but the longer one is sober, the more one learns and the realization of mindfulness and looking at what I do today.

Support to you.

Tommyh

it is ok to say,he was a recovering alcoholic
nothing wrong with that.Maybe he is one of those who can just don`t drink and go to meetings?If so,good for him.
I was a lot sicker than that.I needed to be taught how to make it back to a meeting sober,day after day.
I got into the big book and the steps and today I am a recovered alcoholic.That simply means the causes and conditions of my drinking have been replaced with better stuff,but I am still a alcoholic.We can get well.Follow the directions in the big book,consistanly and you will get there

snitch

Thanks for all your replies. As I was listening to him I was thinking, okay would this really be okay for me. To not drink one day at a time ONLY without working the steps, and I knew for ME that that would not be enough to keep me sober for long and there were a few others who shared back who echoed the same sentiment. I know it's a case of take what you need and leave the rest but I just felt a bit puzzled that he would be saying that he couldn't tell us anything about the AA programme, in an AA meeting!! It was just all a bit weird, he didn't really share much about his recovery at all he just told a few funny stories. However he has been sober 18 years so I will take from that meeting to not drink one day at a time and leave the rest lol as he is clearly doing something right!!

CaiHong

I had tried AA a few times before now and in retrospect I can not remember taking the steps or getting a sponsor. I know now that keeping sober is a daily commitment, keeping in touch with my HP and the program.
When I speak to the guests here and who are new to AA I emphasize that, at first I didn't want to appear "pushy", now I feel I can tell it how it is and what has kept me sober these last 7 years.
I do think the chair was doing a diservice and should be called out on it.
CaiHong

Pathwaytofree

There are the lucky ones who can do "don't drink and go to meetings". But if that's their solution, then alcoholism wasn't their problem. Alcohol was their problem. They're a hard drinker.

For real alcoholics, alcohol was our solution to our problem. Take away our solution (which then also became our problem), and we need a new solution--a spiritual solution--which we get from working the 12 step program outlined in the big book entitled "Alcoholics Anonymous." The meeting got its name from the book. Not the other way around.

If "don't drink and go to meetings" worked for real alcoholics, versus a hard drinker, then there never would've been the steps or the big book. We'd give everyone a post it note that said "don't drink and go to meetings (group therapy).

It just doesn't work for us. Don't drink and go to meetings turns the real alcoholic into a dry drunk.

Telling a real alcoholic "Just don't drink" is like telling an anorexic "Just eat a sandwich".

Tommyh

if you see him again,ask him to show you how he "not drinks" and you want to know how to "not drink"
there may be more to it than meets the eye
it is easy to read into what he said as something it ain`t.Thats judging

I know people with good long term sobriety that try hard to keep things simple for the newcomers and they try to not "impress" them with their knowledge of the program,which is a kind of humilty

the end question is -would we rather sound good in meetings or live well outside the meetings?

Tommyh

also
I am the devils adovcate here
from chapter 3

For those who are unable to drink moderately the question is how to stop altogether. We are assuming, of course, that the reader desires to stop. Whether such a person can quit upon a nonspiritual basis depends upon the extent to which he has already lost the power to choose whether he will drink or not.

maybe he is one of the luckY ones?
who am I to judge?

Ken33xx

I heard a member with over ten years of sobriety stand up at a podium in speaker meeting to share his experience, strength and hope.

He started off by waving a BB and saying, "This is a nice book but I rarely open mine. It sits collecting dust on a shelf in my room."

He then went on for 30 minutes talking about the 12 steps and his sponsor but his speech was filled contradictions or at least I heard it that way.

He told me afterwords he took public speaking courses in college and knew how to give a good presentation.

Maybe he did?

Because I still remember the way he started off.

Grungehead

Many of you know my story but I'll just touch the highlights again. I got sober in 1990 and did the "don't drink and go to meetings" thing for awhile. I relapsed in 1996 for a year. I got sober again in 1997 and once again I did the "don't drink and go to meetings" thing for awhile. I relapsed in 2004, this time for 8+ years.

Both times I started going to fewer and fewer meetings after 2-3 years until I wasn't doing the "go to meetings" part of "don't drink and go to meetings". I had sat through hundreds if not thousands of meetings, and after awhile I wasn't getting anything out of them and I moved on with my life. The thing is that I never got to the core of my problem(s) and do the work necessary to correct them. Eventually life would throw something bad enough at me and I would drink again.

I don't doubt that "don't drink and go to meetings" is enough for some. For me it took "cleaning house and helping others" in addition to "don't drink and go to meetings" to build a foundation that would withstand anything life can throw at me at sober.

As far as "recovering" versus "recovered" I have always liked the following analogy: "You can recover from a gunshot but it doesn't make you bulletproof". In other words I can totally recover from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body as the Big Book says, but if I decide to rest on my laurels there is no guarantee that I will stay recovered.

Ken33xx

On the other hand I often hear in meetings from those who have "**done the deal" yet drank again. Why? The reasons vary.

However, one variable I have noticed is recovery stopped being a priority.


** got a sponsor and worked the steps

Ken33xx

Which brings me back to this:
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...ml#post7012235 (But of a strange chair at meeting today)

Dave42001

I’ve seen my share of strange topics and different people chairing meetings. I always say my HP is testing my tolerance and patience’s. Great post, thanks for sharing!

Gottalife

Hey ,Devil 's advocate , we could add context to your quote by looking at some subsequent sentences in the paragraph and the first sentence of the next paragraph.

"Many of us felt that we had plenty of character. There was a tremendous urge to cease forever. Yet we found it impossible. This is the baffling feature of alcoholism as we know it - this utter inability to leave it alone, no matter how great the necessity or the wish.

How then shall we help our readers determine, to their own satisfaction, whether they are one of us? "

I did ok with English at school and I understand this to mean that the prospect is being invted to consider whether they are one of us (lost the power of choice) or not. Later we ask if they are willing to go through the program and if they prefer some other way, then we encourage them to go do that.

It comes back to the singular problem andsolution on offer in the book. Praphrased, we have a common problem (partly described in your quote) and a common solution upon which we can all agree and join in brotherly and harmonious action etc.

Gottalife

And support back to you PJ!.

You make the strongest argument I have seen for a while in support of the early members decision to publish the book Alcoholics Anonymous.