TheFool

...my boyfriend and I have both been very affected by his drinking. He’s been sober and in recovery for a good while now. I’ve taken an emotional step back to take the pressure off him while he does his steps and we’re hopeful but realistic for the future as he’s changing so much but maybe an equilibrium will be reached.
The problem is Step 9. He’s worrying about it a lot and so am I but for different reasons. He is describing it as making amends but when he talks about it they sound like apologies to me. Surely an amend is to put something right? I can understand paying for damage, or supporting a child etc but how can you make an amend to people you no longer have a relationship with?. E.g. you’re sorry you broke up with an ex or were selfish, or went out drinking all the time to the detriment of others? You can’t put that right, it becomes an apology. The list could be endless but it wouldnt be amendable. He’s going to make amends to an ex who nearly destroyed our relationship due to their deceit and omission. That would cause me immeasurable pain after him promising never to contact her again. How can you amend deceit to the one you caused it with? Isn’t that “my” amend, not hers?! Do the steps demand you hurt others regardless? I can feel this is my dealbreaker..
He feels he has to ‘Do it all properly’. I don’t want it to be a dealbreaker but i know how I feel. I want to understand step 9 incase I’m being unreasonable but it doesn’t make sense. Any thoughts? I’m stuck and sad. X

FireSprite

Again - no expert here, but I believe his amends aren't about your feelings. It's reasonable that he owes both of you amends following his behavior.

Amends are about taking accountability that you've wronged someone. Living amends are changes in behavior going forward that prove more than any words possibly can, that real changes have taken place in recovery/sobriety.

Honestly, I'd stay out of this & tell him this is a discussion he should be having with his sponsor, not his girlfriend.

dandylion

TheFool.....I am not in AA...but, I have been told that amends are about the person's private feelings.
You aren't required to ever like his ex. of course...but, do you thing you can ever get to the point of not being jealous of her? If she is his ex...then, she shouldn't represent any threat to you, now....!?
Do you trust him?

tomsteve

What is the AA definition of an amend?

what im reading isnt so much what an amends is, but WHO a person does amends with.
edit:
i dont think AA has a definition of what an amends is, but simply put its going to a person i have harmed and explain what i did wrong, why it was done, what i should have done, what has done to correct it, and what will be done in the future.
there are instances where i may ask what i can do to make it right.

TheFool

Thank you. You’re right FireSprite they’re not about “my” feelings and I do try to remind myself that often but maybe I’m struggling as the actions of others cause a reoccurrence of hurt we don’t want to have and therefore the amends heal the recovering A whilst causing a two-fold hurt to the one wronged. I’m not feeling big hearted tonight so talk of amends feel like yet another selfish act.
Yes dandelion I’m jealous of her and feel the approach to make amends will inevitably re kindle feelings best left where they belong-in the past.

Yes, Tom Steve, I guess it is a WHO dilemma. I’m probably just feeling the effects of yet more broken promises that we’re so indicative of alcoholism, continuing into sobriety. Maybe the whole process is too difficult for me to observe. I think from an outsiders point of view the steps are unkind on many levels, already vulnerable people doing a stock take that seems to compound to their low self esteem.
Maybe it’s time for me to take a further step back. X

AnvilheadII

you could consider working the steps yourself - i think anyone would benefit from the process. alanon has it's own brand of steps, based off of AA but they are FOR YOU.

i'd go a bit further and say that the partner/spouse should NOT be involved in the other's step process and really should not a sounding board.

TheFool

I don’t think I can an ilheadll. Not the a a steps. I sound very mean today but I’ve done everything that’s been asked of me including giving space, listening supportively etc whilst trying to look after me and detach a little. I’ve been left standing while he walked off numerous times during recovery and can’t bear how he can’t think without guidance anymore. I want to find my own path as a consequence. The al anon steps may help thank you but I don’t think I like programmes atm, he’s a shell of himself due to AA, almost robotic at times, joyless and lost and I feel being around him sometimes is like being Alice, falling into a rabbit hole and being repeatedly confounded by what I see and hear. I think you were all right ages ago and maybe the reality is sinking in. Life with a recovering AA is tiring and however much you love them you begin to realise that it’s a solo journey x

NYCDoglvr

Not true. There's a reason it's step nine and not one or two: working the previous steps gets us ready for amends. Lots of people don't even reach step nine in their first year. I agree: try Alanon and do the steps.

Sasha1972

If he's interested in rekindling anything with the former girlfriend, he'll find an excuse to get in touch with her, steps or no steps, amends or no amends. You can't prevent this (or prevent/cause anything else he might do related to his recovery) - all you can do is think about what is right for you to do for yourself at this point in time.

Maybe give Al-Anon a try? I was pleasantly surprised - I didn't want to have to do something "for" the addict who had already taken so much of my time and energy, and I was glad to find I didn't even have to talk about him and his issues (and was discouraged from focusing on him). It really is about how I can move forward and heal after years of having to bend my personality around someone else's pathology.

TheFool

Thank you, both of you. I guess seeing first hand how low doing the steps can make him (the worst you can imagine) im not a huge fan of the process if it can bring someone down so far due to regret and shame. I’d prefer a cbt approach where you’re given tools for dealing with the feelings and grow in confidence in yourself but I acknowledge it’s great for some. It would be nice not to focus on him for a change. He said we should deal with our own stuff separately and I have huge, not if my own making, trials and illness to get through this year but he doesn’t acknowledge my stuff at all but talks about his. It’s difficult not to appear uncaring. He sees his sponsor a lot. Maybe if I was doing the al anon ones I could say I was dealing with that and needed to concentrate on it alone. X

Katiekate

You don't really sound stuck to me. It sounds like his future plan to contact a woman he said he would never contact again is hurting you already, and that is exhausting to you, and well it should be.

Sounds like you kind of are looking for some clarity on what the rules around amends are, I don't have the answer to that, but I do know that not hurting you is important. It kind of feels like a no win situation, as his recovery is his. It's Hell on relationships, I feel for you. Katie xo

Clover71

Yes

Did he tell you he was making amends to her?

TheFool

Thank you Kate. You get it. I guess I was looking to debate with him the meaning of amends and present the suggestion to him that he’s contacting openly under the guise of step 9 in order to justify it. A promise shouldn’t be made lightly. I made many to him that I’ve kept even though difficult. I’m hurt she needs an amend at my expense but I think it’d be interpreted as being controlling on my part though I’m not at all. I think recovery before anything doesn’t sit well with me as I don’t believe contacting her would make or break his recovery . It’s sad and a catch 22, yes. I know I will leave him the day it happens and that sounds harsh. I’m not harsh at all but being a spectator as someone invites me to watch then “grow spiritually” while breaking a promise is tough to swallow : ( x

TheFool

Yes, and got very angry when I questioned why it was needed. He replied “because I want to”.i thought the step 9 was for the benefit of others, not the recovering A...?

Sasha1972

I don't want to sound like I'm selling AlAnon from door to door - but one of the things I appreciate about it is that it gave me cognitive tools for managing my own emotions in dealing with an active alcoholic. Some of them are a bit corny - lots of acronyms and slogans - but surprisingly effective, probably because they've been road-tested by thousands of people in my situation. The JADE concept alone (are you Justifying, Arguing, Defending or Explaining with an alcoholic? then just stop) was worth going to meetings for, as was the concept (or metaphor) of "walking on your own side of the street".

It was also really valuable to me to learn how not-unique I was - how many other people had been on the same life path through association with an addict. In my case it was a bit complicated because the addict in question also has some pretty significant mental illness compounding the drinking, but many of the lessons from Al-Anon were just as useful in helping me with deal with the "crazy" part of my situation as they were for dealing with "addicted" part.

dandylion

The 3 Cs.....You didn't Cause it; You can't Cure it; and you can't Control it

TheFool

Thank you sasha1972 I don’t think you’re peddling it : ) Helping to understand through a cbt type system seems palatable. Your reply alone was really interesting , the Jade system is something I should have kept close years ago . I’ll see if I can do something online as the only Alanon meeting near me is in the evening, miles away and I’m a single parent without help. There are mental health issues here too that were never addressed hence the drinking.
Thank you Dandylion, I need that printed mirror image on a tee shirt so each time I look at myself it’ll drum it home. X
You’re all very kind. It’s all a bit crazy making as I assume he’ll respond to situations as my friends/family would but of course, it’s different. X

tomsteve

just as with the steps of al anon, step 9 is for the benefit of the person working the program- getting rid of the tons of baggage.
from the big book of AA on step 9:
Now we need more action, without which we find that "Faith without works is dead." Let's look at Steps Eight and Nine. We have a list of all persons we have harmed and to whom we are willing to make amends. We made it when we took inventory. We subjected ourselves to a drastic self-appraisal. Now we go out to our fellows and repair the damage done in the past. We attempt to sweep away the debris which has accumulated out of our effort to live on self-will and run the show ourselves. If we haven't the will to do this, we ask until it comes. Remember it was agreed at the beginning we would go to any lengths for victory over alcohol.

ill back up to the inventory list mentioned, which is step 4:

Though our decision was a vital and crucial step, it could have little permanent effect unless at once followed by a strenuous effort to face, and to be rid of, the things in ourselves which had been blocking us. Our liquor was but a symptom. So we had to get down to causes and conditions.

Therefore, we started upon a personal inventory. This was Step Four. A business which takes no regular inventory usually goes broke. Taking a commercial inventory is a fact-finding and a fact-facing process. It is an effort to discover the truth about the stock-in-trade. One object is to disclose damaged or unsalable goods, to get rid of them promptly and without regret. If the owner of the business is to be successful, he cannot fool himself about values.

Berrybean

You know, early recovery does leave us as a shell of ourselves. The steps help us to sort through what is left and start to regrow. Anyone who's lived with a white-knuckling sober-alcoholic without any recovery will be able to testify that the empty-shell stage, coupled with fears, anxiety, resentments and rages can go on indefinitely. At least with the steps there is some hope of growing past all that crap. Sure, it can be painful and unpleasant at times, but you know what, sobriety is painful and unpleasant to the sober alcoholic as well. It's just GONNA be painful and unpleasant at times for a bit.

Where is he with his step-work so far? If he still thinks an amend can be an apology then he can have that shock when his sponsor starts working with him. His amends to you are one thing. And will no doubt include living-amends of being faithful and the like.
You are right in that he cannot go back in time and not do things that have been done. The difference between and amend and an apology would be that he cirrects his behavior by doing the next right thing in future dealings. So, for example, if he was out drinking all the time to the detriment of others, he might make that initial apology (thats only good manners) but then follow it up with a living amends which would involve NOT behaving in ways that are detrimental to you in future.
I have no idea why he feels he owes this woman amends (and you're not likely to know either). I suspect that his sponsor will suggest making his living-amends to her by staying the hell away from her when he has no business being near her.

You might find it informative and useful to read the chapters on amends in the 12 and 12 book (chapters 8 and 9). You will see that attempts at amends making that would then risk more harm to another person (such as making amends to an ex mistress we treated cruelly, which in turn would cause pain to our wife) would be discouraged. Anyway. It's free to read...
https://www.aa.org/pages/en_US/twelv...lve-traditions

The 12 -steps of AA are pretty much the same as those for Al-Anon and the other fellowships that adapted them. Give him time. He will get better if he works the program thoroughly and takes the suggestions of a good sponsor.

BB

tomsteve

i think you have a misunderstanding of what the steps do and what you are witnessing. what im reading is youre witnessing someone coming out of years of a drunken mind, in a fog, and learning a crapton about himself. more than likely he isnt low, but trying to answer questions he still doesnt have the answers for- he still trying to sort out everything in his melon. YEARS of insanity wont get straightened out in quick order nor in anyone elses perceived time frame. hell, it didnt even occur for me in MY time frame- i wanted it all straightened out yesterday!!!!!!
dammit!
the steps dont make a person feel low. the steps help a person sort through their lives and find all the BS that was bottled up for years. it helps clear away all of the wreckage we left in our wake.theres a crapton thats going to be goin on IN him for some time.
its not going to get straightened out in his time frame or your time frame, but in Gods time frame.
hhhmmmm...Gods time frame. THAT is something i read a LOT about both here and from the alkies themselves-trying to play God and say,"i know whats better for me and everyone else!this is what they should do,when, and how,too!
ya know what happens when i play God?
eventually i hear him laugh."you silly child. you dont even know whats good for yourself. please get back to being you and allow me to do My work, thank you."