dejavuwife

I was on this site long ago with my first marriage. In that one, he started having a drinking problem about 5 years into it, and it did not end well. He also ended up having some significant mental health issues.

I married again to a wonderful man, who once again, did not start having a drinking problem until five years into our marriage. Unlike the first marriage, his drinking problem went downhill fast, and he turned around fast (3 months before surrendering) and has been sober (from alcohol) for over 18 months.

Unfortunately, within the past few months, he has now found out how to trip on DM, and he is claiming it is fine to do that despite the serious consequences he has endured (hospitalization, our marriage, etc). He thinks he is having prophetic dreams and is closer to God with it, and our marriage is suffering because I am supposedly the one creating the distance.

Two thoughts--I keep trying to figure out how I ended up with two spouses who did this. I didn't have parents with addiction issues at all; in fact, they have been happily married for years. I think my naivete and not having a clue what drunkenness even looked like had me completely confused in the first marriage for a long time. Clearly, there is something up with me to have this happen twice.

Second, I am not even sure what to do about setting boundaries with my current husband. With my first husband, when he was drunk, I just remember ignoring him like he was a piece of furniture. He could not even keep a job, and I didn't give him any money. My kids remember me as being a single mom even when married to him--I was rarely home as I hung out with my friends and their kids so my kids would not have to deal with their dad. My current husband has a job, and he thinks he is just being fun when, in fact, he is absolutely annoying.

We have had too many arguments about it, and I know it is futile so last night i realized I am just going to have to accept that there is a chasm between us. It hurts because we used to be so close. He is still going to AA, and he has had moments where he realizes it is a problem (he has gotten two surrender chips), but he has yet to let his sponsor know that he is still using (I think when his sponsor told him that using DM was not being sober, my husband did not want to hear that so stopped talking with him). He goes to AA feeling like he is all that and a bag of chips because he is no longer drinking, and he feels like he has it all together.

I just don't even know how to pretend things are fine when they aren't, but there is no point being bitchy all the time either. He is still rationalizing that his choice to "occasionally" use DM should just be accepted by me as "no big deal" when the fact of the matter is I can't stand how he acts when he is using. I am trying to show love, but at the same time, have boundaries to preserve my sanity. Any pointers are welcome.

Also, I wasn't sure if I should post to this board or the substance abuse board.

dejavuwife

Here is the main thing that keeps coming up that I don't know how to deal with--when he is under the influence (usually telling me he is not), he will start nit-picking at me or be relentless in his conversation. This last time we were in a car together so I was stuck. He went on and on about his topic, and anytime I tried to contribute, I was overrun so I just stopped (and when he is not listening to me, that is my telltale sign he is under the influence--the problem with DM is I can't smell it like I could alcohol). At one point he asked me what I thought, and I simply said, "Suffice it to say, I disagree, but I don't really want to go into it."

But what do you do when they won't shut up? If you are at home, do you say something and leave the room? What do you say?

Whenever I read the boundary suggestions they seem to be about bigger things (don't bail them out, give them money, etc.) which would not be difficult for me. It is these "little" areas that I can't figure out.

dandylion

Dejavu........Some of the things that can be done are the simple detachment things, like.....leave the room to do something else...(anything else)....
Adopt some verbal ways to take the air out of his subject matter.....Like--"You might have a point". "I'm taking note of what you are saying". "Ain't that the truth!" "I hear what you are saying". "Ain't that a shame!"....."Oh, well"....."When it rains it pours"...."Uh-huh"...."hmm..."...." I never claimed to be perfect".....
If he bugs you at n ighttime...sleep in another room or on the couch...etc....Go stay with a friend or a hotel, if the situation gets bad.....
Stay pre-occupied with headphones, computer, Ipad, etc....
Hang out in the bathroom, doing your nails, soaking in tub, etc...
Find as many ways to stay out of the house and out of his hair, as you can think of....going for walks, window shopping, feeding the birds, weeding the flower beds, hang out in the library or community center, volunteering at church, getting the tires rotated, grocery store....

Detachment is but a tool to use....and, it can "buy" you some mental space, and reduce the number of stupid arguments that an addict can drag you into. It can deflect some of the irritations and even allow you to get some sleep....
But, it won't solve the whole problem of the underlying issue(s)......

If your desire that the two of you be on the same harmonious page....I can't see that happening. Living with an addict (to anything) is a very difficult thing to do.
He is seeing the world through a different filter than you.
He may not see the big picture of what is going on....
But, the important thing, is that you do....
You need to operate from what you KNOW.....and, there is no point in arguing with him about it...
You have to take care of your own welfare...you can't expect him to...he can't take care of his own......

I am going to take a stab in the dark, and say...that, I would be surprised if both guys just started drinking at the five year mark.....I'm just guessing that they were drinkers when you met them? since alcoholism is progressive....over time, it gets worse and the effects on the brain and body begin to mount up....one may not notice the bad effects until it reaches a certain tipping point....

***If he is ever threatening or violent in any way, it becomes a whole different matter...and, you have to use your own judgement in dealing with him (and get outside help, of course)

dandylion

Dejavu.....since you were here before...do you remember the stickies library of articles.....
I am going to give you this link to the Classic Readings section.....there have been a lot added since you were here, I think,,,,,

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...c-reading.html

OpheliaKatz

Dandylion wrote a very useful reply. I'm going to address some of the things she said because I have tried these methods of detachment (note: it didn't save my marriage).

Some of the things that can be done are the simple detachment things, like.....leave the room to do something else...(anything else)....
Adopt some verbal ways to take the air out of his subject matter.....Like--"You might have a point". "I'm taking note of what you are saying". "Ain't that the truth!" "I hear what you are saying".

I tried doing ALL these things. My AH just kept following me from room to room if he didn't get the response he wanted, meaning, he wanted me to be REALLY interested in his drugged-out ramblings. It got to the point where in the middle of his ramblings, he would say, "I love you", as a mean of getting me to say, "I love you" back at him. So his "I love you" never meant what it was supposed to mean. I think detachment can save your sanity but it really depends on WHO you are dealing with.

Find as many ways to stay out of the house and out of his hair, as you can think of....going for walks, window shopping, feeding the birds,


My AH used to follow me to the door when I was going to work, and say, "bye". If I said, "bye" back to him, he would say, "you didn't mean that, say it again, but nicer." So I would have to say it again and again and he would still **** off pouting because I wasn't giving him enough "positive" attention. So again, if he's not possible to detach from, you might have to leave him.

But, it won't solve the whole problem of the underlying issue(s)......

This was exactly the problem. In my case, my AH tried being "sober" for a month or two, then would give up, and the time that he was sober, he still had underlying mental health issues and would take out his "issues" on me, expecting me to somehow fill the gaping hole in his heart that was supposed to be filled with self-love.

Living with an addict (to anything) is a very difficult thing to do.


I'm still suffering as a result of it.

***If he is ever threatening or violent in any way, it becomes a whole different matter...and, you have to use your own judgement in dealing with him (and get outside help, of course)


So, in my case, my attempts at detachment lead to the relationship breaking down. The more I detached, the more resentful my AH became. The more my AH tried to become sober, the more he started to detach from me -- possibly because he came into the relationship seeing me as a means to enable his addiction or a replacement for it, and when I wanted to be neither, he became unhappy with me. He did not know how to have a healthy relationship dynamic. From time to time, I still think I could have saved him, but that's from learned behavior: that is how my family are with each other -- my parents have been together forever, but they put up with a variety of bad behaviors.

I am not sure what to say that will be useful. I'm watching this thread and hope to learn from it.

dejavuwife

Thank you! Those are exactly the kinds of ideas I was looking for. He doesn't usually follow me around, and he has never been violent. I just get stupid sometimes and engage when all that ends up doing is escalating things and frustrating me--lose/lose.

And to answer the history question, my first one was not a drinker and did not start drinking until the five year mark, but we were young (early 20s) and did not hang around people who drank. He started drinking at the five year mark after a life stressor, and it just kept getting worse and worse. My second one and I socially drank ok for years; I did see him drunk a couple of times at holiday parties, but I don't know how unusual or problematic that is (I barely ever saw my parents drink so drinking 2-3 times a month even seemed like a lot). After five years he started using it to cope with work stress, and it became progressively worse really fast. He now will say he used alcohol once before to cope with a stressful time before he met me, but he had pulled himself out of that years ago.

dandylion

dejavu.....you may remember the concept of "Quacking" from your past time on the forum....But I will describe it for other readers....Quacking is the forum word for the useless, provocative or just plain stooopid things an alcoholic will say.....
The idea is to visualize them as a little quacking duck when they are like that...
This allows us to see their behavior for what jt is and to ignore it or stay detached from it, for our own sanity.....
(sort of like visualizing an intimidationg person with no trousers)....

Try it!

I just brought back our Quackers thread.....read and learn and enjoy!!!

dandylion

dejavu....I want to remind you of some other helpful concepts.....

1. Try not t JADE
J--justify
A--argue
D--defend
E---explain

This can help to reduce dead-end arguments....especially when you have been attacked or blamed for things that are unfounded....

2. Remember that you do not have to attend to every argument that you are invited to.......

AnvilheadII

that's a rather rare switch - for an adult - to quit drinking and then take up robo-tripping. it's about as far from sober as an iceberg is from a bubble bath.

i understand that you are looking for immediate tools in how to deal with someone who is obnoxious, high and in your face. but i think it's wise to pull the view back a bit and see the bigger picture. this is not sustainable. and it will only get worse. if for example he decided to drink while on DXM, it could be lethal.

you said you've been HERE before, and you've been in a similar situation with prior husband before. that they both turned out to be alcoholics is not your fault. they may have been similar "types" of men that you were drawn to - they may be entirely different and it just so happened they each developed drinking problems along the way. whatever and however it came about, it's not your fault. NOR must you stick this one out and get it right. loving someone doesn't mean that you must keep living in objectionable, uncomfortable or downright abusive situations.

NYCDoglvr

What I realized in Alanon was I had to change or I'd keep picking the same person over and over; what ensued was a lot of hard work. I really recommend it.

hopeful4

Maybe the solution is that HE has to leave the home if he is going to use any substance.

When I was married to my XAH, for a time, if he was drinking, I would take my kids and leave the house. We went to movies, games, you name it. We were pretty busy people anyways, but I will say, that got super old, pretty quick. They had homework to do, and wanted to be at their own home. So next, I took another step and make a boundary that was if you are going to be under the influence, you have to leave the house. Where he went, what he did, was up to him, but he could not be there. The problem w/that is driving under the influence. He usually ended up at a family members home. It lead to him trying to hide it, me knowing better. Eventually I kicked him out and our marriage ended, but this did buy me some time and some nights of having my own sanity.

Gentle hugs to you.