"High Achievers" - a method to consider.
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"High Achievers" - a method to consider.
I've been sober for 66 days. While I realize this is VERY very early on in recovery and that there is not "one size fits all" method to quit, I'd like to throw the Allen Carr "Easy Way to Quit Drinking" books out as a suggestion to others who consider themselves "high achievers' because it's literally changed my life.
Up until now, I had been averaging around 4 to 6 drinks per day for the last 7 years (I was 'drunk' around 5 nights per week, and had at least 1 or 2 drinks every single day). I've been trying to get sober for the last 3 years, and have committed and failed over 30 times, before finding a method that resonated with me.
I graduated with distinction and have continued my education, averaging 1 new certification every 6 months since graduating in order to stay on top in my field. I have a great job in a fast paced environment, and moved up within the organization very quickly. I'm married and have a child, and despite my position at work I make time for family life through rigorous work/life balance practices. I own a home, I volunteer a few hours a month with environmental charities, I find time to travel and have hobbies...
I'm very goal oriented, often get what I plan for, and rarely ever fail.
So when I struggled with drinking despite all my planning and strategy, I was really frustrated with myself. I've tried DOZENS of methods, following guidelines to a T, and still wasn't able to "succeed". I think part of the problem in my first attempts was that I was trying to force myself into methods that worked for others that fundamentally didn't jive with the way I operate as a person. They actually just made it worse, because after each failure I would flip out and drink even harder.
A lot of the "you are weak, you have a problem, you need to use more will power, you need to surrender to the fact that you're an addict, you need to pray to a higher power, etc etc" methods just DIDN'T work for me. Telling myself "I'm not strong enough to deal with this I need outside help" was flawed because I've never approached ANY problem in my life with that mind set -- that just ISNT my mindset! -- and so trying to come at drinking like that didn't work for me. I didn't NEED tactics for "more will power". I was will powering SO HARD and nothing was happening. Will power was not my problem. It was the association I had with alcohol as something "good" that gave me a break.
The Allen Carr "Easy Way" book was recommended to me by someone on Tumblr, who noticed my life circumstances (re: high achiever who struggled with numerous attempts to quit) was similar to hers. I bought it as an audiobook for $6 on iTunes so I could sneak in a listen to it on the way to work. I listened to it fully, then some chapters I listened to several times over because they really resonated with me. Not only was this inexpensive, but it approached drinking WAY differently than a lot of books I've read, and it was the one that finally clicked.
Re-reading this, I know it reads like a giant advertisement (I'm not affiliated with Allen Carr, I'm just in marketing as a profession and the is how I write). The effectiveness of this book combined with the low cost make it worth a try for anyone in my situation.
Staying sober is now seriously not a problem for me. It's easy, and it's preferable to being intoxicated. I don't "miss" drinking. I don't like it anymore. This book fundamentally shifted the way I saw alcohol and the meaning it held in my life and if it can help even ONE other person feel the way I feel, this entire ranty post will be worth it.
Has anyone else tried it? Did it help you? I'd love to connect with others who were helped by this method.
Up until now, I had been averaging around 4 to 6 drinks per day for the last 7 years (I was 'drunk' around 5 nights per week, and had at least 1 or 2 drinks every single day). I've been trying to get sober for the last 3 years, and have committed and failed over 30 times, before finding a method that resonated with me.
I graduated with distinction and have continued my education, averaging 1 new certification every 6 months since graduating in order to stay on top in my field. I have a great job in a fast paced environment, and moved up within the organization very quickly. I'm married and have a child, and despite my position at work I make time for family life through rigorous work/life balance practices. I own a home, I volunteer a few hours a month with environmental charities, I find time to travel and have hobbies...
I'm very goal oriented, often get what I plan for, and rarely ever fail.
So when I struggled with drinking despite all my planning and strategy, I was really frustrated with myself. I've tried DOZENS of methods, following guidelines to a T, and still wasn't able to "succeed". I think part of the problem in my first attempts was that I was trying to force myself into methods that worked for others that fundamentally didn't jive with the way I operate as a person. They actually just made it worse, because after each failure I would flip out and drink even harder.
A lot of the "you are weak, you have a problem, you need to use more will power, you need to surrender to the fact that you're an addict, you need to pray to a higher power, etc etc" methods just DIDN'T work for me. Telling myself "I'm not strong enough to deal with this I need outside help" was flawed because I've never approached ANY problem in my life with that mind set -- that just ISNT my mindset! -- and so trying to come at drinking like that didn't work for me. I didn't NEED tactics for "more will power". I was will powering SO HARD and nothing was happening. Will power was not my problem. It was the association I had with alcohol as something "good" that gave me a break.
The Allen Carr "Easy Way" book was recommended to me by someone on Tumblr, who noticed my life circumstances (re: high achiever who struggled with numerous attempts to quit) was similar to hers. I bought it as an audiobook for $6 on iTunes so I could sneak in a listen to it on the way to work. I listened to it fully, then some chapters I listened to several times over because they really resonated with me. Not only was this inexpensive, but it approached drinking WAY differently than a lot of books I've read, and it was the one that finally clicked.
Re-reading this, I know it reads like a giant advertisement (I'm not affiliated with Allen Carr, I'm just in marketing as a profession and the is how I write). The effectiveness of this book combined with the low cost make it worth a try for anyone in my situation.
Staying sober is now seriously not a problem for me. It's easy, and it's preferable to being intoxicated. I don't "miss" drinking. I don't like it anymore. This book fundamentally shifted the way I saw alcohol and the meaning it held in my life and if it can help even ONE other person feel the way I feel, this entire ranty post will be worth it.
Has anyone else tried it? Did it help you? I'd love to connect with others who were helped by this method.
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k- no I do not know this method. You are not drinking, bottom line stuff- great. You are aware early days. I think having support is key. For me recovery is no longer a logical decision if I do 'x'. My addictivec thinking eludes rational thought. All I know is the number of times by every method known to mankind- by myself did not work.
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There are many paths up the mountain...
I found Allen Carr useful, tho I only read the book after I got sober.
If there's one criticism I have about the book it doesn't deal with alcoholism deeply enough...I had to do a lot more than just stop drinking...but to be fair I'm not sure all day every day alcoholics like me were Carr's target audience.
I think you might also get something from the Rational Recovery approach. Google 'Rational Recovery AVRT' or pop into our Secular Connections forum.
We have a variety of methods being used on this site but everyone seems to get along fairly well with some mutual respect
I'm glad you've found us and congrats on your sober time
D
I found Allen Carr useful, tho I only read the book after I got sober.
If there's one criticism I have about the book it doesn't deal with alcoholism deeply enough...I had to do a lot more than just stop drinking...but to be fair I'm not sure all day every day alcoholics like me were Carr's target audience.
I think you might also get something from the Rational Recovery approach. Google 'Rational Recovery AVRT' or pop into our Secular Connections forum.
We have a variety of methods being used on this site but everyone seems to get along fairly well with some mutual respect
I'm glad you've found us and congrats on your sober time
D
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Good job on your sobriety- keep going.
Personally, AA is my bedrock but I add a lot of other "secular"/non-program material to my recovery work because I am a learner by nature. Anything that helps us stay sober - and I say this at 9 mo with a much clearer head than even at 60-ish days, I feel I am better able to judge what would truly be helpful and not counterproductive to my staying sober. I've seen the book- perhaps read it back when I was still looking for "easy" ways out (revealing my skepticism about any methods that tout such here)- and might take a peek again. Like I said, at this point, why not? It's not going to change my devotion to AA and like Dee said, maybe using it as an adjunct to my program of sobriety (vs using it when I really didn't want to get sober at all) would be cool.
For the record, though.....many of us told ourselves that because we are "high achievers," as you say, we weren't really alcoholics, weren't really that bad, weren't really.....I'm in the "yet" camp (ie, you haven't lost your "status" and "success" YET) and believe that, truly, alcoholism doesn't discriminate one whit, so anything that smacks of "a better way because you are too smart for x or y (usually AA in this scenario" is something I wouldn't have let (key word) myself try when I finally, desperately wanted to get sober. I may be taking the concept too far here, in terms of what Carr actually says, but how you describe it lends my perception to a strong AV talking and the danger in feeding that.
Interesting post.
Personally, AA is my bedrock but I add a lot of other "secular"/non-program material to my recovery work because I am a learner by nature. Anything that helps us stay sober - and I say this at 9 mo with a much clearer head than even at 60-ish days, I feel I am better able to judge what would truly be helpful and not counterproductive to my staying sober. I've seen the book- perhaps read it back when I was still looking for "easy" ways out (revealing my skepticism about any methods that tout such here)- and might take a peek again. Like I said, at this point, why not? It's not going to change my devotion to AA and like Dee said, maybe using it as an adjunct to my program of sobriety (vs using it when I really didn't want to get sober at all) would be cool.
For the record, though.....many of us told ourselves that because we are "high achievers," as you say, we weren't really alcoholics, weren't really that bad, weren't really.....I'm in the "yet" camp (ie, you haven't lost your "status" and "success" YET) and believe that, truly, alcoholism doesn't discriminate one whit, so anything that smacks of "a better way because you are too smart for x or y (usually AA in this scenario" is something I wouldn't have let (key word) myself try when I finally, desperately wanted to get sober. I may be taking the concept too far here, in terms of what Carr actually says, but how you describe it lends my perception to a strong AV talking and the danger in feeding that.
Interesting post.
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Originally Posted by Dee74 
If there's one criticism I have about the book it doesn't deal with alcoholism deeply enough...I had to do a lot more than just stop drinking...but to be fair I'm not sure all day every day alcoholics like me were Carr's target audience.
D
I agree, and found it a bit weird that there was no 'deep dive' emotional stuff. However, I've gone through an intensive 2 week model with follow up visits to a therapists, but even though I knew all my issues around alcohol and all my triggers I still found the desire to drink there. I still felt it had value somehow. I really needed the 'alcohol is a poison that is weirdly normalized by our society. It is not helping you or anyone else, it is just how it's marketed'. My background is marketing and psychology, and that message just totally clicked.
I'm excited to check out the group! Thanks for the link!
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I have read many recovery books but not this one so can't comment on the content. What I can comment on is the busy, rewarding career and lifestyle. I have tried many different recovery methods (perhaps tried almost everything out there over time) but my most effective "tool" has always been building a life (professional and personal) that I enjoy and developing different aspects of myself. I also very much enjoy setting goals and working towards them. I imagine that if you live this way, there are always tons of interesting challenges and things to do in your days and if not, you can easily find new endeavors. Little room to be bored if you enjoy what you are doing.
One of the risks of the "high achieving" lifestyle in the long run though is that people can get burnt out, the goals and accomplishments can lose their attractiveness, it can become a speedy hamster wheel and habit... and that is a very common place where we turn to escape strategies such as alcohol and drugs. My experience is also that people who are very self-sufficient and success-oriented and like to overcome obstacles independently (I would put myself into this bag for the most part) often have a sort of obsessive quality that can be very useful when it comes to pursuing goals and working hard, but the same quality can also turn into destructive behaviors. Just something to keep in mind if you feel it rings true for you.
One of the risks of the "high achieving" lifestyle in the long run though is that people can get burnt out, the goals and accomplishments can lose their attractiveness, it can become a speedy hamster wheel and habit... and that is a very common place where we turn to escape strategies such as alcohol and drugs. My experience is also that people who are very self-sufficient and success-oriented and like to overcome obstacles independently (I would put myself into this bag for the most part) often have a sort of obsessive quality that can be very useful when it comes to pursuing goals and working hard, but the same quality can also turn into destructive behaviors. Just something to keep in mind if you feel it rings true for you.
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Originally Posted by August252015
For the record, though.....many of us told ourselves that because we are "high achievers," as you say, we weren't really alcoholics, weren't really that bad, weren't really.....I'm in the "yet" camp (ie, you haven't lost your "status" and "success" YET) and believe that, truly, alcoholism doesn't discriminate one whit, so anything that smacks of "a better way because you are too smart for x or y (usually AA in this scenario" is something I wouldn't have let (key word) myself try when I finally, desperately wanted to get sober. I may be taking the concept too far here, in terms of what Carr actually says, but how you describe it lends my perception to a strong AV talking and the danger in feeding that.
Interesting post.
Allen Carr definitely doesn't try to give anyone the illusion that they aren't an addict. It does address the fact though that will power isn't what is stopping you, it's a belief about what alcohol means not just to you, but to everyone else. It's a direct look at the culture we've built around alcohol, and the deconstruction of that culture in a way that lets you see the inherent value of alcohol for what it is, not for the 'fun/relaxing/whatever' lifestyle it represents in our society.
I'm excited to be here and learn from everyone.
thanks for sharing your perspective! I think I've taken a little from all the programs I've tried, and I totally see where your caution is coming from
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The "dregs and scums" myth is frustrating to me- it is just one of many justifications people use to dismiss AA. I'll tell you first hand that not only are some people in my home group and others (I attend a MWF home group and various kinds of meetings at two big Atlanta AA clubhouses) people with names on big buildings in town (literally), politicians, local celebrities and such....more importantly, some of the very best people I have met and am privileged to know are ones I met in AA. Sure, some are ex cons or not-even-GED-ers etc....but every single one of us is an alcoholic - and as my dad would say, every person I meet there knows at least one thing I don't. And, frequently, when I meet someone I am surprised to find out is in AA - it's because I always thought "what a terrific person so-and-so is!" Turns out, for these people, AA is often the reason why.
Good enough company for me.
Good enough company for me.
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Originally Posted by August252015
The "dregs and scums" myth is frustrating to me- it is just one of many justifications people use to dismiss AA. I'll tell you first hand that not only are some people in my home group and others (I attend a MWF home group and various kinds of meetings at two big Atlanta AA clubhouses) people with names on big buildings in town (literally), politicians, local celebrities and such....more importantly, some of the very best people I have met and am privileged to know are ones I met in AA. Sure, some are ex cons or not-even-GED-ers etc....but every single one of us is an alcoholic - and as my dad would say, every person I meet there knows at least one thing I don't. And, frequently, when I meet someone I am surprised to find out is in AA - it's because I always thought "what a terrific person so-and-so is!" Turns out, for these people, AA is often the reason why.
Good enough company for me.
Good enough company for me.
I'm definitely not saying people who are in AA are low achievers -- as I mentioned in a message above, I was always surprised at the level of a accomplishment I found in the people I saw in AA. Different methods work for different people.
Maybe high achievement was a bad choice of words, as it seems to be setting people off. I more or less meant people who have very stong will power and more or less follow through with goals. many models depend on the idea that a person needs to adjust their will power or succumb to something greater, but that can be very frustrating if you already do those things and aren't seeing results.
I'm glad AA worked for you. This wasn't a critique of AA or anyone who use it.
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Originally Posted by kintsugi
I've been sober for 66 days. While I realize this is VERY very early on in recovery....
Originally Posted by kintsugi
Staying sober is now seriously not a problem for me. It's easy, and it's preferable to being intoxicated. I don't "miss" drinking. I don't like it anymore.
What if you did miss drinking someday in the future?
Would staying sober then suddenly become a problem?
Would you then drink again?
Originally Posted by kintsugi
Has anyone else tried it? Did it help you?
"Having made what you know to be the correct decision, to become a non-drinker, never even begin to question or to doubt that decision."
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Originally Posted by August252015
The "dregs and scums" myth is frustrating to me- it is just one of many justifications people use to dismiss AA. I.
He's better now. I shared some of the materials with him and I showed him some other sites about AA, including this one. He feels much more at peace with it now. I know he loves me, and he also knows that if I don't beat this thing I will end up dead, like my beloved sister who died of liver failure at 39.
I actually do have that book! But I've never managed to read it, I'm usually drinking when I start. I might pick it up tonight, I have time on my hands because I WILL NOT DRINK TODAY.
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Originally Posted by Algorithm
In the context of your previous remark that it's still 'very, very early', I have to ask the obvious.
What if you did miss drinking someday in the future?
Would staying sober then suddenly become a problem?
Would you then drink again?
"Having made what you know to be the correct decision, to become a non-drinker, never even begin to question or to doubt that decision."
I mostly say 'it's early' to avoid all the reactive comments from people who think that 2 months is too early to tell. I've been working through this for 3 years using various methods and ideologies, and this is the first time I haven't felt high levels of anxiety over the decision to quit, or spent the days talking myself down, urge surfing, 'taming the beast', reading inspiration quotes or affirming myself obsessively in any way. It doesn't feel like a sacrifice. It feels like finally realizing something that I can't un-realize. Alcohol is all marketing. It doesn't do anything that I want it to do for me and it never will. I don't need to 'want' alcohol, because alcohol isn't what I even want, it's what I've heard it's supposed to do for me (make me relax, make things feel more fun, be a special treat, etc).
As far as facing the potential for a time when I want to drink (as of right now, I don't see it happening, but for the sake of your argument), I just won't. Drinking doesn't ever accomplish for me the things I had used it to accomplish, and it never will. I know I'll never reach the blissed-out state I kept striving for because it doesn't exist. It's a marketing tactic. Thinking drinking will make me happy and calm is like thinking Sea Monkey's will actually have houses and families with gender roles. It's just packaging. There are things I can do that get me real results, and that's where I'd likely devote that 'craving' feeling, if I ever again have one.
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As a result of this post I looked at the reviews for the book on Amazon Audiobooks and they were all very positive so I have just purchased the audiobook...looking forward to listening to it and gaining further insights and tools 👍
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Originally Posted by Merigold
When I first told my husband I was considering AA he also came out with something similar. A google search told him AA was a cult and that as a woman I would not be safe. He worried that people with nefarious agendas would be influential on me in my weakened state. He knows that I find saying NO extremely difficult.
He's better now. I shared some of the materials with him and I showed him some other sites about AA, including this one. He feels much more at peace with it now. I know he loves me, and he also knows that if I don't beat this thing I will end up dead, like my beloved sister who died of liver failure at 39.
I actually do have that book! But I've never managed to read it, I'm usually drinking when I start. I might pick it up tonight, I have time on my hands because I WILL NOT DRINK TODAY.
He's better now. I shared some of the materials with him and I showed him some other sites about AA, including this one. He feels much more at peace with it now. I know he loves me, and he also knows that if I don't beat this thing I will end up dead, like my beloved sister who died of liver failure at 39.
I actually do have that book! But I've never managed to read it, I'm usually drinking when I start. I might pick it up tonight, I have time on my hands because I WILL NOT DRINK TODAY.
To the OP, I did not take offense at your wording or observation and surprise about successful people being in AA. Too many people have he same impression or discovery. IME one can find alllll kinds of reasons not to give AA (or something else that means we quit drinking) a shot- I went into it belligerently to say the least! I just think it's a shame when something I sure know works for a lot of people is dismissed by someone who needs it. The openness to finding a program that helps you get and stay sober is the most important part.
To the point about surrendering and not seeing results....in AA we would say there has really been no surrender. And as acceptance is the key to all our problems (BB 4th ed paraphrase) .... step one leads to success, which is sobriety. For me, my super smart brain kept me out of the rooms, drinking and....seeing only terrible results for a long time.
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Interesting. I'll have to check it out.
Sober almost three years, I've used a lot of tools in my sobriety, not the least of which my own self-empowerment and strength. I don't fully subscribe to the powerlessness angle - though I DO fully believe that once I decide to drink alcohol, I am inevitably powerless to make the right decisions or have the strength to manage how much alcohol I'll eventually drink, when I'll drink, how badly I'll neglect my life.
I find the dangerous side of these sorts of messages being that their simplicity may lead 'high achievers' and proud go-getters like us into a false sense of power and back to the boozing ultimately. But, as part of an overall approach to sobriety, I'm absolutely on board with taking a more empowered approach and recognizing our the role of our own will and choices in maintaining and deepening a sober life.
Anyway - sounds worth a read, thanks for the tip!
Sober almost three years, I've used a lot of tools in my sobriety, not the least of which my own self-empowerment and strength. I don't fully subscribe to the powerlessness angle - though I DO fully believe that once I decide to drink alcohol, I am inevitably powerless to make the right decisions or have the strength to manage how much alcohol I'll eventually drink, when I'll drink, how badly I'll neglect my life.
I find the dangerous side of these sorts of messages being that their simplicity may lead 'high achievers' and proud go-getters like us into a false sense of power and back to the boozing ultimately. But, as part of an overall approach to sobriety, I'm absolutely on board with taking a more empowered approach and recognizing our the role of our own will and choices in maintaining and deepening a sober life.
Anyway - sounds worth a read, thanks for the tip!
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I read his The Easy Way to Quit Smoking, and I quit literally the day I finished it. I never read the one about quitting drinking, but I did use that same mentality when it came to my quitting drinking. It helps, it really works for any addiction I think. Basically you just can quit in the wrong state of mind, quitting thinking you've lost something means it takes willpower to do. Which you don't need any will power to use this method, you just stop and are happy about it, it's hard to explain if you don't read it. If you are fed up and willing to give yourself to it it works.
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Originally Posted by leighbond
I read his The Easy Way to Quit Smoking, and I quit literally the day I finished it. I never read the one about quitting drinking, but I did use that same mentality when it came to my quitting drinking. It helps, it really works for any addiction I think. Basically you just can quit in the wrong state of mind, quitting thinking you've lost something means it takes willpower to do. Which you don't need any will power to use this method, you just stop and are happy about it, it's hard to explain if you don't read it. If you are fed up and willing to give yourself to it it works.
It's really hard to explain this method without it sounding like a weird "too good to be true" gimmick, but I REALLY found it the most helpful of all the programs I've tried in the last few years! That's why I'm so curious to see how other people have responded who have heard of it, because any time I describe it to someone who hasn't heard of it, they find it very hard to "believe".
I've never felt GOOD while quitting like I do now, it's always felt like an emotional rollercoaster with all these different thoughts regarding alcohol pulling me in different directions.
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